EPTBig Post Incoming
This thread has been a long time coming, but I figure with the Proleague season finished, now is as good a time as any. I've been a fan of Professional Broodwar since late 2009, when on a whim I decided to look up some games on Youtube. I found commentators like CholeraSC, Nukethestars, and RanshinDA, and proceeded to devour their archives and watch every new video they added. The first match I stayed up to watch live was the 2010 Proleague Finals, where Flash and Company routed the evil forces of SKT. Since then, I've watched as many Proleague and Starleague matches live as I could, and caught most of the rest on Youtube after the fact. I've also taken the time to research and learn about the history and strategy of the game, though I haven't ever tried playing it seriously.
Shortly after I started following BW, the SC2 beta started, and I've kept my toe dipped in the scene ever since. I have watched most Daily's, listen to State of the Game (when it airs), and will usually watch MLG if I'm in the mood (though often it will be on my netbook while I do something else on my desktop). I've watched GSL and GSTL a few times, when it ran either before or after a BW event I was staying up for, and I actually have IPL running on the other screen as I write this. And all that time, I've never enjoyed a game of SC2 nearly as much as I enjoy an average game of BW. In particular, I've never felt the sort of edge of my seat, holding my breath excitement I get regularly when watching BW. This is not to say that I dislike SC2, only that I've never liked it nearly as much as I like BW.
Part of this certainly has to do with intangibles, things that have nothing to do with the mechanics of the game itself. I played a lot of BW as a kid, and have many fond memories of doing so. Moreover, having watched many games of BW I have strong emotional attachments to the game, the matchups, the players, and the scene. Add in a love of MBC (rip) and OGN's production values, and a preference for the game's art style over SC2's, and these are big barriers to overcome. However, these attachments haven't prevented me from appreciating other games played at the professional level. I've watched and enjoyed Counterstrike, Quake, Halo, and even LoL, and had plenty of edge of my seat moments while doing so. So clearly, it's not just the intangibles that are preventing me from appreciating your game.
Up till this point, that hasn't been a problem. I've had BW to watch often enough, and whenever I wanted to I could tune in to some SC2 as a less entertaining but still ok alternative. However, due to several factors (among which the rise of SC2 is but one) the future of professional BW looks bleak, and the news coming out of Korea suggests things are about to change. The next OSL at least will be BW, but next season of Proleague will likely contain a mix of both games. After that, things are uncertain, but the outlook isn't good.
Now, I could just stop following the game, but I'm not quite ready to do that. While I do mourn BW's coming demise, I still do love the teams and the players that play it, and a part of me is excited to see how Flash, Jaedong, and other BW experts do in a new game. So, I'm willing to give SC2 another serious chance. As a part of doing this, I want to talk with SC2 fans about the things I don't like about your game, in the hope you can help me deal with them. In particular, I'd like to hear from people who either have or still do watch BW, though all opinions are certainly welcome.
Below, I will outline the three main things I feel have prevented me from enjoying SC2 as much as I enjoy BW. In each category, I will elaborate on my point, and when possible provide VODs to demonstrate examples. In responding to these points, I would encourage you to make one of three types of arguments. First, you could argue that my point isn't true, or at least not entirely true. Second, you could argue that though my point may have some truth to it, that doesn't mean the game is bad. Third, you could point out other things about SC2 I may not have appreciated that make it fun to for you to watch. In either case, I would encourage you to cite games and provide VODs to support your argument, and to remain civil and respectful.
As an example, let's say I'm a fan of American Football and dislike Soccer. To explain my views, I might say that I dislike Soccer because the ball is spherical, and that I think a ball being thrown is cooler than a ball being kicked. In rebuttal, you could argue
a) That spherical balls are cool too,
b) That balls are occasionally thrown in soccer,
c) That balls are occasionally kicked in football, and
d) That balls being kicked is cool too.
Finally, I would ask that you NOT make any “For eSports!!!!” style arguments. To be frank, I don't care. If I watch a game, it is because I like it, not because I feel there is some moral good in gained from allowing people to play games professionally.
With that said, here are the things that have made it hard for me to enjoy SC2. The VOD's I cite will tend to have KT players in them, but that's just because they're the ones that stick out in my memory most.
1) Lack of Strategy – When I say “lack,” I mean relative to BW. When I hear SC2 fans talk about strategy in their game, to me it either seems like they're talking about build orders, unit composition, or things like multi pronged attacks and unit positionings that I would consider tactics. By strategy, I mean big picture stuff, things happening all over the map that influence the outcome of the game. Examples.
First, Ver's excellent Final Edit God of the Battlefield, which discusses Savior's ZvT. For those unfamiliar, Savior's game plan was generally based on playing defensive, teching to hive, and using defilers to dominate the Terran army. If you read the article, you'll find many examples of how he did this. Through flanks, traps, and threatened backstabs, Savior would stall the Terran's offensive long enough to get Defilers out. This style of play is common in most modern ZvT's, and something I've never seen an equivalent to in SC2.
Second,
Flash v 
Best, SPLFlash exploits a positional advantage to kill Best with repeated drops. The entire game from this point forward is Flash dropping on alternating sizes of Best's territory, pulling him from left to right and ultimately winning the game.
Third, a game from the recent SPL Final. Because it just aired, it will be spoilered.
+ Show Spoiler +
Fantasy v Flash, SPL 2012 FinalsAs a KT fan, this is a little painful for me, but it's too perfect an example to pass up. It will be discussed in some detail, because it's really impressive.
Game two of the finals, Flash faced Fantasy.
After holding off some early vulture drops while suffering moderate damage, Flash pushed out and contained Fantasy at his natural.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzf4wYtftV8#t=12m30s
Fantasy held his choke with a few tanks, while using a dropship to ferry some units behind Flash's army, cutting off reinforcements and threatening an attack on his natural.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzf4wYtftV8#t=13m50s
Meanwhile, Fantasy got Wraiths, ambushed Flash's small airforce, and attacked the contain. With insufficient AA, reinforcements cut off, and no escape route, Flash was forced to go north, and was ran down and destroyed by Fantasy's vultures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzf4wYtftV8#t=14m50s
Fantasy then proceeded to claim 60% of the map, and ride his economic advantage to a victory, in spite of some impressive drops from Flash.
2) Faster Battles – Compared to BW, bases in SC2 take many more workers to saturate. As such, armies tend to be smaller, and thus riskier to separate. Add in smaller maps, more easily destroyed buildings, and units naturally clumping together, and any battles beyond the early game tend to end in a blink of an eye. Because units stay so close together, every unit in an army will almost immediately be in range of every unit in an opponents army, and often subject to numerous AEO attacks. Battles thus tend to last only a few seconds, and usually either result in mutual obliteration or a minor advantage in quantity, composition, or positioning snowballing into an overwhelming victory. This makes battles harder to appreciate, especially with all the flashy effects making it difficult to see whats going on.
Past the early game, BW tends to see units spread out more, both across the map and locally. As such, when a battle occurs it tends to last longer, because fewer units are shooting at fewer targets. Moreover, units being more spread out makes it easier to follow the details of a battle, letting you count army size, watch individual units, and appreciate every movement. This makes it easier to enjoy the process of a fight, not just the lead up to it.
Again, I'll provide a few examples.
First,
Action v Bisu, SPL 2011A long, back and forth fight that sees Action slowly wearing down Bisu's army through pokes and prods.
Second,
Neo.G_Soulkey v Leta, SPL 2011One of the games where Soulkey demonstrated how to beat Terran mech with Queens. After several minutes of harassing Leta's tank lines with Spawn Broodling, Soukley breaks through and knocks out most of Leta's mining bases, securing the win.
Third,
JangBi v Flash, Jin Air OSL Semi'sWatch the minimap in the leadup, Jangbi feints a few attacks to slow down Flash's advance. Then, when Flash is a bit spread out, Jangbi sprints in and uses good control to destroy most of Flash's army. He loses most of his own, but rebuilds and goes on to win the game. These sort of attacks are fairly common in late game, arbiter PvT's, and one of the reasons I enjoy the matchup so much.
3) Lack of Micro – Again, by “lack” I mean relative to BW. And yes, I've seen those video's of Marine v Baneling fights, and they just seem to be the exception who proves the rule. Beyond that, micro in SC2 seems to be something you only do in the early game. After that, armies reach the size where fights happen so quick that micro simply doesn't happen. In Broodwar, micro happens throughout the game, both because fights are slow enough to allow it, and because some units like reavers and mutas are entirely dependent on micro to be useful. Hell, ZvZ is a matchup almost entirely decided by micro, and is incredibly entertaining to watch if you know how to appreciate it.
In BW, micro is a massive force multiplier, and lets your units do things they never could without it. When done right, it lets players win fights they should have lost, and makes spectators jaw's hit the floor. When done wrong, it can cost games, and and leads to epic moments like thisthis. In either case, it rewards good players, and makes for fantastic spectator experiences.
In SC2, the degree to which micro can improve your units is severely reduced. This is something that Day9 has talked about, as has Lalush. I think more than anything else, this is why SC2 rarely makes my jaw drop, and why fights are often less interesting than what led up to them.
Examples follow.
First,
Bisu v Flash, WCG 2009I don't have a link to the whole game, because WCG sucks. Either way, a stunning example of micro from both players. Every time I watch this clip, I see the players doing new things.
Second,
Tempest v Light, MBC Survivor League, 2009Light cheeses Tempest, who proceed to execute a brilliant defense exploiting his dragoon's range advantage over marines. By the end of the game, one goon manages to rack up over 30 kills.
Third,
Snow v Jaedong, PDPop MSL Ro8In game 2 of one of the best PvZ series in recent memory, Snow finds himself facing down a massive tide of hydras bearing down on his natural. Lacking storm, he is forced to fall back on his reaver control, and after a long fight manages to hold.
Concluding Remarks / TLDR
Again, let me repeat that I want none of what I've said in this thread to be read as me bashing SC2. I'm glad the game has succeeded, and happy that so many people enjoy it as much as they do. I however have struggled to do so, largely because I feel it lacks some of the things that make BW so entertaining for me. Please, help me enjoy your game more by addressing what i feel the game lacks.
Also, for the love of God let's try and prevent this thread from degenerating into a shitstorm. Be polite, and think about what you post.
Thank you, and I'm excited to hear what you have to say.
