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Hello team liquid
I am making this post since recently i heard a lot of talk about starcraft ( 2 ) being a great spectator "esport" since you can actually be a spectator for the game and play very rarely or not at all.
I personally never understood how you can enjoy a game like sc2 as a spectator only nor i did enjoy sc2 when i was a noob ( in RTS games n.w ) simply because i had no idea why the pros where doing what they were doing and how the units comp interacted with each other ( not to even mention the fact that i did not knew in what proportion upgrades/economy/structures where relevant to the state of the game i was watching ).
Recently however i began to enjoy watching sc2 more and more simply because I understand how the game works better and better with every passing month ( due to staying in front of my PC to much  )
Now you could say that some of the player that watch the pros are not master or even diamond due to lacking the mechanics/they don't even play the game ( since they enjoy watching more then playing ) but even then someone who has enough knowledge in sc2 to understand the game at a pro level should easily be at least on a platinum if not diamond or low master EVEN with shitty mechanics.
Further more i more then often see things such as this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfnPBdajg-w - a Jinro vs Choya game where Choya has almost no eco and they both have a huge army, Jinro has obviously won and Day9 + Wheat are hyping a final battle which can only end with Jinro coming out ahead due to him having 20 + production building and a complet MMM ghost viking ball vs zealot archon colossus ( which is a pretty un fair fight when the terran has the high ground and toss can't even warp in zealot or archons near the spot of the engagement.
I highly doubt that a " GM in all 3 races player " that is day9 believed Choya stood any chance of wining other then Jinro disconnecting.... so whats all the hype for ?
There are many other examples of caster hyping up players micro when the true story of the game is when the timing of there attacked hit or the units comp/upgrades they had ( or even the position they forced there opponents army into ) or when the game is actually over and the player is microing for showoff/ to be sure he doesn't loss in some stupid way to something he did no saw due to getting to much of his army killed in the "final battle".
Basically my questions for you are the following:
- Do you enjoy watching/think other ppl enjoy watching sc2 without actually ?
- If you do thing that there are ppl or if you idd are someone who watches sc2 without understanding much of what goes behind the pro player thought process then why do you actually enjoy/think they enjoy that kind of game over watching a 4v4 or some random master/diamond player ?
Also adding some pools
Poll: Who are you in sc2 1v1 and how do you watch pro sc2 1v1 matches ?I watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player (170) 48% I watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-plat)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all (96) 27% I watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 ) (56) 16% I don't watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 ) (9) 3% I watch it and i am a pro player (8) 2% I don't watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player (7) 2% I don't watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-gold)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all (4) 1% I don't watch it and i am a pro player (4) 1% 354 total votes Your vote: Who are you in sc2 1v1 and how do you watch pro sc2 1v1 matches ? (Vote): I watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-plat)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all
(Vote): I watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player
(Vote): I watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 )
(Vote): I watch it and i am a pro player
(Vote): I don't watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-gold)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all
(Vote): I don't watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player
(Vote): I don't watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 )
(Vote): I don't watch it and i am a pro player
Poll: How much do you understand the mathces ?I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on (147) 60% I don't always understand the new tactics/meta game shifts but other than that i get whats going on (83) 34% I onyl understand it at a mid-ish level ( aka upgrades are good, expansions are good..etc ) (10) 4% I don't understand pretty much anything except for who won the games/battles (4) 2% I only understand it at a "who microed better" " who has more suply" level (1) 0% 245 total votes Your vote: How much do you understand the mathces ? (Vote): I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on
(Vote): I don't always understand the new tactics/meta game shifts but other than that i get whats going on
(Vote): I onyl understand it at a mid-ish level ( aka upgrades are good, expansions are good..etc )
(Vote): I only understand it at a "who microed better" " who has more suply" level
(Vote): I don't understand pretty much anything except for who won the games/battles
Poll: What type of sc2 caster do you like the most?Analytic caster ( Artossis ) (141) 53% I like casters that combine the 2 ( Day9 ) (98) 37% Play by play/shouts a lot caster ( Total biscuit/Dj Wheat ) (13) 5% I don't care much about the casters/like all of them evenly (12) 5% 264 total votes Your vote: What type of sc2 caster do you like the most? (Vote): Analytic caster ( Artossis )
(Vote): Play by play/shouts a lot caster ( Total biscuit/Dj Wheat )
(Vote): I like casters that combine the 2 ( Day9 )
(Vote): I don't care much about the casters/like all of them evenly
Poll: You think sc2 is a "noob" friendly Esport to watchYes compared to FPS, fighting and moba games (91) 45% Yes compared to moba games (39) 19% Yes compared to fighting and moba games (18) 9% I belive its the most noob "undfriendly" of all 4 popular "esport:" game genders (15) 7% Yes compared to moba and FPS games (14) 7% Yes compared to fighting games (7) 3% (5) 2% Yes compared to FPS games (4) 2% (4) 2% Yes compared to FPS and fighting games (3) 1% (2) 1% (2) 1% 204 total votes Your vote: You think sc2 is a "noob" friendly Esport to watch (Vote): Yes compared to fighting games
(Vote): Yes compared to moba games
(Vote): Yes compared to FPS games
(Vote): Yes compared to fighting and moba games
(Vote): Yes compared to moba and FPS games
(Vote): Yes compared to FPS and fighting games
(Vote): Yes compared to FPS, fighting and moba games
(Vote): I belive its the most noob "undfriendly" of all 4 popular "esport:" game genders
(Vote):
(Vote):
(Vote):
(Vote):
EDIT: There is no Dual cast option since that i obviously the favored of 99% and the best certainly ( not to mention that dual caster is used for almost every tournament ), i rather want to know which caster are you liking more from a duo
( lots of ppl asking and i now see that i forgot to mention it in the post )
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low level player, don't play much
watch a lot
i prefer the 2 caster setup (1 analytical, 1 play-by-play) , not mentioned in your poll
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On November 12 2011 22:15 Aterons_toss wrote:
I highly doubt that a " GM in all 3 races player " that is day9 believed Choya stood any chance of wining other then Jinro disconnecting.... so whats all the hype for ?
It's a caster's job, in all sports, to try and keep the game interesting and entertaining for the viewer, even if it's a blow-out.
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I play ~5 Games daily in Diamond League and watch GSL and other big tournaments like MLG.
I like Artosis and Tasteless the most.
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FPS like Quake (Duel) are far easier to understand/follow, but team based FPS like CS have pretty much the same problem as MOBA (DotA, LoL, HoN).
I barely play SC2 (fucking old machine) but I follow quite a lot of the tournaments.
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If someone is about to lose after one last fight sports commentators generally don't completely over hype it as in here 'OMG if he just wins this one fight then he can etc etc.', it's more like 'choya is fighting very well here but jinro should close it out in this last battle'
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The reason that they hype it up is that people will still be interested in the game. Its their job to keep the game interesting at all times. Which is why at the beginning of the games they dont focus much on the game and just talk about other things like the previous game because there isnt anything interesting at the beginning of the game. If you dont like casters overhyping things then i suggest you stop watching all sports because any caster will do this....
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On November 12 2011 22:21 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 22:15 Aterons_toss wrote:
I highly doubt that a " GM in all 3 races player " that is day9 believed Choya stood any chance of wining other then Jinro disconnecting.... so whats all the hype for ?
It's a caster's job, in all sports, to try and keep the game interesting and entertaining for the viewer, even if it's a blow-out.
1 Thing is to keep the game interesting in a manner of " this player could come back if X and that might just happen right now if Y " like Artosis does and to scream louder when a nuke lands over an army that was killed then you screamed when the actual game ended ( Jinro did some shit and killed most of Choya base... don't remember exactly what but you can find the VOD on mlg tv )
On November 12 2011 22:26 kopi wrote:
If someone is about to lose after one last fight sports commentators generally don't completely over hype it as in here 'OMG if he just wins this one fight then he can etc etc.', it's more like 'choya is fighting very well here but jinro should close it out in this last battle'
pretty much this ^
To give a personal example when one of my country teams was getting owned 2-0 by Manchester the caster were idd still saying that they "might" have a chance to come back but they were not trying to act like the match is not over yet when it was 2-0 the ball was in our team court and 30 sec of the match were left/
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On November 12 2011 22:26 kopi wrote:
If someone is about to lose after one last fight sports commentators generally don't completely over hype it as in here 'OMG if he just wins this one fight then he can etc etc.', it's more like 'choya is fighting very well here but jinro should close it out in this last battle'
what is the fun in that? just look at all movies, they make these dramatic scenes where it looks like the hero is going to die but you know he really isnt because he is the hero. its hyping the situation and making it unpredictable so that the viewer can be entertained. Its basic knowledge of entertainment.
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On November 12 2011 22:19 Broodwurst wrote:
low level player, don't play much
watch a lot
i prefer the 2 caster setup (1 analytical, 1 play-by-play) , not mentioned in your poll
The same for me, don't play 1v1.
Also, the combination of one analytical caster and one good play by play caster is by far the best imo, dApollo plus Totalbiscuit is my favourite combo.
I think SC2 is a great spectator sport. Even if you have never seen a game of sc2 before you can see what both players are doing so you get it pretty fast.
I've watched some fps and you don't understand anything the players are doing, cause the camera follows only one of 10 or so players and there's no overview so if you've never played that map you don't know what's going on.
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I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on (18)
69%
hahhahhhahahahahaahahahhaha
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Your poll about which caster you like the most, the best casting duo in all of e-sports is tastosis because artosis brings the analysis and tasteless brings the hype and makes the game interesting. They also have been casting with each other for so long that they can feed off each other and talk about things while the game is boring like you see them do all the time. I think the best single caster is day[9] simply because he has the analysis (being a 10 year bw player, probably the best foreigner), hes a funny guy, and he can hype up a game like you saw him do with jinro vs choya.
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No one should be selecting this option for question 2:
I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on
-_-
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"I have as much understanding as the pro level player of what's going on."
LOOL. I like how everyone chooses that option. Expect inaccurate results. If you understood the game like a pro, you would be a pro. Period.
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On November 12 2011 22:36 soulist wrote:
Your poll about which caster you like the most, the best casting duo in all of e-sports is tastosis because artosis brings the analysis and tasteless brings the hype and makes the game interesting. They also have been casting with each other for so long that they can feed off each other and talk about things while the game is boring like you see them do all the time. I think the best single caster is day[9] simply because he has the analysis (being a 10 year bw player, probably the best foreigner), hes a funny guy, and he can hype up a game like you saw him do with jinro vs choya.
I'm a huge fan of Day9, but I don't think anyone thought he was the best foreigner
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I consider SC2 to be as friendly as it gets since you don't have to focus on 10 people at once (well we're talking about the high-level players right now, where SC2 is just 1v1). I'm a low-leagued player and even I can understand what's going on tactically most of the time. I'm better comparatively in LoL than at SC2, and I can understand more of SC2 than LoL sometimes. In general, it's an easy-to-learn, hard-to-master type of game where there's something for everyone.
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I do think SC2 is not as good of a spectator sport as BW was (I was actually going to ask this to State of the Game but they never took my question), but that's just because the playstyle is not as evolved as it was in BW. Once the better players switch over and learn aggressive timings/builds, it will be much more exciting than droning up for the first 10 minutes then throwing 200/200 armies at each other
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On November 12 2011 22:36 Enervate wrote:
"I have as much understanding as the pro level player of what's going on."
LOOL. I like how everyone chooses that option. Expect inaccurate results. If you understood the game like a pro, you would be a pro. Period.
thats not true, ever heard of mechanics ?
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On November 12 2011 22:34 yoigen wrote:
I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on (18)
69%
hahhahhhahahahahaahahahhaha
yeah...well, its only natural to expect that every1 thinks they understand the game.
Anyway.
I am one of those who don't play...only on occasion, or when i get into that....in-the-mood week. However, i watch streams/tournaments daily.
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thanks for giving me another reason to go to MLG prov.
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EPT
