• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:48
CEST 16:48
KST 23:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Updates to The Core/Core Lite for v5.0.16?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences Data needed vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Beyond All Reason Total War: Warhammer 40K
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8602 users

Magic Box Improvement

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
atmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7 Posts
October 30 2011 21:48 GMT
#1
Okay, so I posted this over in /r/Starcraft because I very rarely actually frequent the TL boards, just use the site for its stream list, news, etc. I got a very positive response over there in less than an hour, so I have a feeling this is something that isn't too well-known yet, even if a few people have figured this out. My searching didn't show any posts that explain this concept so I thought I'd share it over here too.

Here's a c/p of my post from over there:

If you hold down whatever your hotkey is for 'hold position', instead of just hitting it once when your pack of Muta's first fly into position over Thors, Muta's will not move at all if you target fire something under them, even if you click inside of the magic box. I.E. you can issue focus-fire commands on individual Thors, and your Muta's will focus-fire without stacking over that targeted unit!

Previously, I was finding my Muta's to be totally ineffective if I did anything other than let them auto-target whatever they wanted once getting into range. If there was a Thor, for example, that I wanted to prioritize over a bunch of other units in a ball, I found that I was unable to focus-fire that Thor, or else (as I'm sure many of you have experienced) my Muta's would instantly begin clumping around the Thor to all try to get in their pot-shots on it. This resulted in some ridiculous micro efforts that never worked quite as I hoped, involving me spamming hold position frantically in between right clicks, trying desperately to stop my Muta's from clumping together in between each shot. Out of the blue today I thought to myself "why the fuck haven't I tried just holding down the 'hold position' hotkey to see if it overrides the attack command?" Well, I did, and the results are astronomically improved engagements.

I loaded up the map editor and threw 5 thors into the middle of Antiga Shipyard along with around 25-30 Muta's. Using this technique, I was able to fly over the Thors one by one, focus fire them each in 1-2 volleys of my Muta pack, and clean up the entire mob in less than 15 seconds with losses of maybe 4 or 5 Muta's. Normally, I would watch my Muta's flail around like retards and shoot 4 different Thors while chipping off the health of some and killing none. If I would try to focus fire one of the Thors, all my Muta's would stack and disappear in, literally, one volley of fire from the group of Thors. This has happened to me in-game numerous times thanks to very, very inopportune misclicks. This should never happen again.

Now, in a mixed composition there would be Marines scattered around, possibly even missile turrets, making this attack even more difficult, but I came up with this idea while thinking about how to continue to engage with Muta's if a Terran builds multiple Thors in a pure mech build. In this case, Thors are THE anti-air for the entire army, and if my testing proves effective in a real game scenario, it appears to me that the entire anti-air foundation of the mech army can be eradicated in seconds, leaving the rest of the hellions and tanks completely defenseless.

I feel that this technique could potentially aid Muta/Ling play in the PvZ matchup as well, where Archons can feel just as threatening as Thors at times.
I have no idea if this is something that's common knowledge, but I definitely don't remember reading to hold down the 'hold position' hotkey anywhere when I first learned about magic boxing; just that you were supposed to hit it to stop your Muta's from clumping once in range of a Thor, then let them go to work. I still see Pro's lose packs of Muta's to Thors frequently enough that I imagine there are plenty of other people who don't know this either. Forgive me in advance if it's already well-known, but I thought I would share this revelation with all of my fellow Zergs who have seen double-digit numbers of Mutalisks get shredded in half a second by three or four Thors.
ssartor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States129 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 22:00:27
October 30 2011 21:54 GMT
#2
Sounds legit, about to go test it out. Thanks!

EDIT: Just tested it and it works extremely well.
"If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn." — Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
October 30 2011 21:55 GMT
#3
Awesome!
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
Dahlian
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany37 Posts
October 30 2011 22:12 GMT
#4
Since not being able to focus fire was the downpart of magic boxing which i assumed to be quite fair because it was strong still, this makes it really mighty. Too bad thors are out in HOTS but with the warhound being more massable it might be even more crucial to bring them down fast without clumping.
Intuit these souls allowed to shine.
lordsurya08
Profile Joined September 2011
United States141 Posts
October 30 2011 22:17 GMT
#5
I tried this out and it's highly effective. Bad for me though, as I play toss and my archons will no longer hard counter mutas
Do, or do not. There is no try.
memcpy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
October 30 2011 22:17 GMT
#6
Sick, hope all zerg players see this.
SoniStreet
Profile Joined October 2010
Macedonia98 Posts
October 30 2011 22:18 GMT
#7
Great find, thanks for sharing - even though I'm not Zerg anymore.
Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
October 30 2011 22:24 GMT
#8
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O
My religion is Starcraft
Reqq
Profile Joined January 2011
43 Posts
October 30 2011 22:27 GMT
#9
On October 31 2011 07:24 snively wrote:
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O


Holding a button down is the same as pressing it really quickly.

So if you hold H down and right click on a unit, you're basically saying "Attack this unit, don't move" in very rapid succession. So as long as the muta is in range of the thor, it will attack it.

Contrast this with the old magic box where you are just flying and hit H. You're basically saying "stop here," and then your muta attacks whatever it wants - which is probably not the thor, if there's anything else around.

Sweet find.
atmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7 Posts
October 30 2011 22:31 GMT
#10
On October 31 2011 07:24 snively wrote:
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O


It's not that it's overriding the command, it's that by holding down the hold position key you're spamming hundreds of 'hold position' commands per second. When you target fire, you issue a command to fire, which still goes through, but another command to hold position comes in micro seconds after you click, so the Mutalisks fire but are immediately stopped from moving. Since all it takes is one command to fire, the fact that you're issuing a hold command microseconds later doesn't matter, the command to fire has already been issued, your Muta's have already fired and are now targeting whatever you chose to focus-fire. After that they continue attacking whatever they're already being told to attack. Pressing hold position doesn't change the Muta's attack priority to attack whatever's in range, it simply tells them to stop moving and continue attacking whatever they were already being told to attack. Thus, they continue to attack whatever they were told to focus before the hold position spam comes in.
Lasbike
Profile Joined January 2011
France2888 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 22:36:00
October 30 2011 22:32 GMT
#11
On October 31 2011 07:24 snively wrote:
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O

Well, by holding H down, you're saying to your mutas "Hold your position" about 20 times per second (on my computer/keyboard, i don't know about yours).

If you right click on a thor, your mutas will instantly attack it but will NOT have the time to move cause in 1/20seconds, they obviously can't pack.

...

This is awesome, how could i never try this before ! Great find.

Edit : Obviously, in the classic Mutas/Ling/Bling vs Marines/Tank/Thor fight, if you micro your mutas, you can't micro your banelings on splited marines anymore.
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
October 30 2011 22:50 GMT
#12
Can't wait to get a ZvT and go try this out
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
RemoteLink
Profile Joined October 2011
35 Posts
October 30 2011 23:08 GMT
#13
If Zergs knew how to do this, mech would be impossible in the matchup, and very high muta counts would be ridiculously powerful.
DBunny
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada192 Posts
October 31 2011 00:30 GMT
#14
Really helpful, thanks for the tip.
Fishriot
Profile Joined May 2010
United States621 Posts
October 31 2011 00:33 GMT
#15
Great find!
theBOOCH
Profile Joined November 2010
United States832 Posts
October 31 2011 00:38 GMT
#16
Cool find!
If all you're offering is Dos Equis, I will stay thirsty thank you very much.
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
October 31 2011 00:59 GMT
#17
IdrA will absolutely freaking ADORE this.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
October 31 2011 01:07 GMT
#18
Wow, yeah this makes so much sense. Nice thinking.
ixi.genocide
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States981 Posts
October 31 2011 01:39 GMT
#19
this should be seen by all zerg players. This will add viability to muta vs mech play and will add micro to the mu.
Iselian
Profile Joined March 2011
United States56 Posts
October 31 2011 01:49 GMT
#20
Wow, great find! Always more to discover in the game, neh? Going to love using this over those clusters of thors =D
Support and critique my amateur casting! youtube.com/IselianGaming
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #253
EmpressLilyy23
Liquipedia
WardiTV Spring Champion…
11:00
Playoffs
Solar vs ZounLIVE!
ByuN vs TBD
WardiTV1170
IntoTheiNu 968
TaKeTV 360
TKL 242
Rex158
IndyStarCraft 124
Ryung 113
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 444
TKL 242
Rex 158
IndyStarCraft 124
Ryung 113
trigger 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2091
Jaedong 1352
Shuttle 1282
EffOrt 1200
Horang2 990
Soulkey 620
Mini 482
Snow 373
hero 371
firebathero 290
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 174
Mong 169
actioN 156
Sharp 123
BeSt 112
Movie 102
JYJ 94
Zeus 82
Hyun 70
Sea.KH 54
Aegong 41
ToSsGirL 40
910 34
sorry 29
Sacsri 24
HiyA 23
Barracks 21
GoRush 20
zelot 16
Rock 16
soO 15
Terrorterran 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
IntoTheRainbow 13
Dota 2
qojqva2837
Dendi1402
420jenkins243
BananaSlamJamma155
Counter-Strike
fl0m6033
olofmeister806
kRYSTAL_19
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor107
MindelVK4
Other Games
singsing2585
Liquid`RaSZi1039
hiko898
Day[9].tv658
Lowko472
B2W.Neo336
crisheroes319
DeMusliM256
Hui .182
QueenE79
mouzStarbuck43
KnowMe41
Liquid`VortiX41
Trikslyr32
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2436
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 39
• poizon28 23
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1692
• Jankos1599
• TFBlade703
Other Games
• Day9tv658
• WagamamaTV365
Upcoming Events
OSC
9h 12m
CranKy Ducklings
19h 12m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
20h 12m
Cure vs SKillous
Big Brain Bouts
1d 1h
Maplez vs eGGz
Reynor vs Solar
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 20h
GSL
1d 21h
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Reynor
herO vs Lambo
Solar vs Clem
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
GSL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Patches Events
3 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
3 days
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-16
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Stake Pulse Beat 1
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.