• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:12
CEST 14:12
KST 21:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week5[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Script to open stream directly using middle click A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource! [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 696 users

Magic Box Improvement - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
hecticSc
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania76 Posts
October 31 2011 13:11 GMT
#61
Thanks for finding this. Now mutas will be even more OP which means a much needed nerf might indeed happen in the next patch. Yay.
Buff Terran pls
joyeaux
Profile Joined May 2005
United States169 Posts
October 31 2011 13:49 GMT
#62
On October 31 2011 18:51 K9GM3 wrote:
Enjoy it while it lasts... this seems like a perfect target for Blizzard's nerfbat, and I honestly can't even argue with that.


This is the sort of micro trick that will not get nerfed, like the marine stutter step.

OP's trick works because
1. holding "h" makes your keyboard repeatedly send a signal that you are pressing "h" over and over
2. units don't move when you issue a hold position command,
3. the AI is smart enough to keep attacking the thing you told it to target after you give it a hold position command.

Blizzard can't change 1, keyboards just work that way. They definitely can't change 2, units have to stay still when you issue a hold position command. Changing 3 won't happen either, Dustin Browder has said repeatedly in interviews that he won't nerf units by making the AI worse.
althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
October 31 2011 14:05 GMT
#63
Super-duper facepalm. I can't believe I never thought of this. Kudos to you OP. I give you all of my internet cookies.
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
sorrowptoss
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1431 Posts
October 31 2011 14:11 GMT
#64
In depth Magic-Box analysis very well done. Good strategy stuff.
ForeverAzerG
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom101 Posts
October 31 2011 14:23 GMT
#65
nice one
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
October 31 2011 14:23 GMT
#66
mmm interesting find, it was easy to use multiple group of mutas to focus fire thors before, though the opponent could see it and move their thors out of harms ways. Here they will still think you have no idea what you are doing until their thors die super fast.
noted when seeing one cloud of mutas do the thor jump as well.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 31 2011 14:33 GMT
#67
Well, Thor are even worse at what they were intended to do now. :D
Can't wait for them to be changed by warhounds.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Kaminoan
Profile Joined August 2010
Chile25 Posts
October 31 2011 14:41 GMT
#68
Can't wait to use this, thx a lot :D
Macro, macro, macro macro, micro, macro, macro, macro, macro, micro, macro...
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
October 31 2011 14:48 GMT
#69
As a terran, thankfully Thors will be removed (?) in HoTS...

Nice idea though
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Daimai
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden762 Posts
October 31 2011 15:01 GMT
#70
I, as a Protoss player hope mutas will be nerfed now. Thank you for finding this.
To pray is to accept defeat.
xTrim
Profile Joined April 2011
472 Posts
October 31 2011 15:12 GMT
#71
Its a good find, though in the heat of the battle Im pretty sure things wont go that good for the average player
K9GM3
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands116 Posts
October 31 2011 22:56 GMT
#72
On October 31 2011 22:49 joyeaux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 18:51 K9GM3 wrote:
Enjoy it while it lasts... this seems like a perfect target for Blizzard's nerfbat, and I honestly can't even argue with that.


This is the sort of micro trick that will not get nerfed, like the marine stutter step.

OP's trick works because
1. holding "h" makes your keyboard repeatedly send a signal that you are pressing "h" over and over
2. units don't move when you issue a hold position command,
3. the AI is smart enough to keep attacking the thing you told it to target after you give it a hold position command.

Blizzard can't change 1, keyboards just work that way. They definitely can't change 2, units have to stay still when you issue a hold position command. Changing 3 won't happen either, Dustin Browder has said repeatedly in interviews that he won't nerf units by making the AI worse.

Aye, they can't change that. But they could make Thors or Archons stronger, or nerf other aspects of the Mutalisk.
No, I don't want your number.
Red_Player
Profile Joined December 2010
9 Posts
October 31 2011 23:14 GMT
#73
Oh man. I have a feeling this is gonna get nerfed. I'm definitely going to be using this until then tho. ^^
fallore
Profile Joined December 2009
United States143 Posts
October 31 2011 23:31 GMT
#74
It seems like when you have a spread out flock of mutalisk, and they have more than a couple thors, it would be ideal to right click multiple thors while holding H? This way the mutalisks not in range of the first Thor you target would focus down a different thor, instead of being left to the auto-targeting AI
Plague1503
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia466 Posts
October 31 2011 23:36 GMT
#75
I presume this will get patched one way or the other with the next version. Still unsure on whether or not that's the right course of action, but it's the one Blizzard will likely take IMHO.
"Good luck." "I don't need luck. I have ammo."
Temporarykid
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada362 Posts
November 01 2011 00:15 GMT
#76
On November 01 2011 07:56 K9GM3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 22:49 joyeaux wrote:
On October 31 2011 18:51 K9GM3 wrote:
Enjoy it while it lasts... this seems like a perfect target for Blizzard's nerfbat, and I honestly can't even argue with that.


This is the sort of micro trick that will not get nerfed, like the marine stutter step.

OP's trick works because
1. holding "h" makes your keyboard repeatedly send a signal that you are pressing "h" over and over
2. units don't move when you issue a hold position command,
3. the AI is smart enough to keep attacking the thing you told it to target after you give it a hold position command.

Blizzard can't change 1, keyboards just work that way. They definitely can't change 2, units have to stay still when you issue a hold position command. Changing 3 won't happen either, Dustin Browder has said repeatedly in interviews that he won't nerf units by making the AI worse.

Aye, they can't change that. But they could make Thors or Archons stronger, or nerf other aspects of the Mutalisk.


UHHHHHHHH Thors and Archons even stronger??? No thanks.
I think this is a good opportunity for players to try different builds and find out different things that work for them. Besides, SC2 is still young. Look at the development of SCBW. It was because of things like this that made units avoidable. It wasn't really fixed by buffing the disadvantaged units in said situations.
ㅈㅈ
Phoose
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany23 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 01:35:38
November 01 2011 01:33 GMT
#77
you can Shift queue 2 orders after you did that hold position spam, when the targets are in range

you can do this with Terran Bioball too, if you are split up and want to Kill Banelings, or Mutalisks
if you Focus Fire while hold pos spam with Marine Tank, only Tanks in Sight do Focus Fire the targets

you cant do this too well with zerglings in the mineral line, i mean there is a new bug that only 1 worker get attacked
Zerg <3
joyeaux
Profile Joined May 2005
United States169 Posts
November 01 2011 04:14 GMT
#78
On November 01 2011 07:56 K9GM3 wrote:
they could make Thors or Archons stronger, or nerf other aspects of the Mutalisk.


They did already announce the addition of the warhound and tempest in HOTS. I wouldn't expect anything else sooner.

Also, they haven't nerfed anything in response to a micro trick in the past. If the devs nerf and buff things every time a new micro trick or build order is discovered, this game will get stale FAST.
sereniity
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden1159 Posts
November 01 2011 04:21 GMT
#79
People talk about all of this "sc2 skill ceiling and micro already capped it's too low" bullshit and now we find something like this... Great find! Hope we find more of these things in the near future :D...
"I am Day9, Holy shit!"
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
November 01 2011 05:43 GMT
#80
On November 01 2011 10:33 Phoose wrote:
you can Shift queue 2 orders after you did that hold position spam, when the targets are in range

you can do this with Terran Bioball too, if you are split up and want to Kill Banelings, or Mutalisks
if you Focus Fire while hold pos spam with Marine Tank, only Tanks in Sight do Focus Fire the targets

you cant do this too well with zerglings in the mineral line, i mean there is a new bug that only 1 worker get attacked


Shift-queueing 2 orders after hold position will eliminate the entire point of this thread. The point is that there is another hold position order immediately following the target fire, thus preventing mutas from grouping. Then, once that subsequent Hold Position command is received the queue'd commands will be wiped out and the muta will only continue attacking what it is attacking, then who knows what it attacks after that. Another focus attack command will be required at that point, followed by the instant hold position to follow, since it's still being held down.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
12:00
Cracov 2025: Qualifier #3
Liquipedia
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Playoffs Day 7
Cure vs ClemLIVE!
Tasteless1604
Crank 1491
ComeBackTV 1371
IndyStarCraft 254
Rex121
3DClanTV 104
IntoTheiNu 29
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1604
Crank 1491
IndyStarCraft 254
Rex 121
MindelVK 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1086
JulyZerg 599
ToSsGirL 563
Nal_rA 390
EffOrt 371
Light 358
firebathero 338
Stork 302
Mini 274
Last 247
[ Show more ]
PianO 174
soO 129
Larva 77
Mind 68
Pusan 54
sSak 38
sorry 29
Shinee 24
sas.Sziky 24
zelot 22
Movie 22
Icarus 19
Barracks 18
ivOry 15
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
qojqva1333
XcaliburYe544
Counter-Strike
oskar238
chrisJcsgo203
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor219
Other Games
tarik_tv18162
gofns14216
FrodaN3675
B2W.Neo1367
DeMusliM407
crisheroes384
shahzam383
Fuzer 274
KnowMe179
Lowko143
SortOf112
ArmadaUGS41
Trikslyr21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick32597
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 29
lovetv 4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1577
Upcoming Events
FEL
3h 49m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CSO Cup
3h 49m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5h 49m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
DaveTesta Events
5h 49m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 49m
RSL Revival
21h 49m
Classic vs TBD
FEL
1d 2h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 5h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV European League
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.