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Magic Box Improvement

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
atmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7 Posts
October 30 2011 21:48 GMT
#1
Okay, so I posted this over in /r/Starcraft because I very rarely actually frequent the TL boards, just use the site for its stream list, news, etc. I got a very positive response over there in less than an hour, so I have a feeling this is something that isn't too well-known yet, even if a few people have figured this out. My searching didn't show any posts that explain this concept so I thought I'd share it over here too.

Here's a c/p of my post from over there:

If you hold down whatever your hotkey is for 'hold position', instead of just hitting it once when your pack of Muta's first fly into position over Thors, Muta's will not move at all if you target fire something under them, even if you click inside of the magic box. I.E. you can issue focus-fire commands on individual Thors, and your Muta's will focus-fire without stacking over that targeted unit!

Previously, I was finding my Muta's to be totally ineffective if I did anything other than let them auto-target whatever they wanted once getting into range. If there was a Thor, for example, that I wanted to prioritize over a bunch of other units in a ball, I found that I was unable to focus-fire that Thor, or else (as I'm sure many of you have experienced) my Muta's would instantly begin clumping around the Thor to all try to get in their pot-shots on it. This resulted in some ridiculous micro efforts that never worked quite as I hoped, involving me spamming hold position frantically in between right clicks, trying desperately to stop my Muta's from clumping together in between each shot. Out of the blue today I thought to myself "why the fuck haven't I tried just holding down the 'hold position' hotkey to see if it overrides the attack command?" Well, I did, and the results are astronomically improved engagements.

I loaded up the map editor and threw 5 thors into the middle of Antiga Shipyard along with around 25-30 Muta's. Using this technique, I was able to fly over the Thors one by one, focus fire them each in 1-2 volleys of my Muta pack, and clean up the entire mob in less than 15 seconds with losses of maybe 4 or 5 Muta's. Normally, I would watch my Muta's flail around like retards and shoot 4 different Thors while chipping off the health of some and killing none. If I would try to focus fire one of the Thors, all my Muta's would stack and disappear in, literally, one volley of fire from the group of Thors. This has happened to me in-game numerous times thanks to very, very inopportune misclicks. This should never happen again.

Now, in a mixed composition there would be Marines scattered around, possibly even missile turrets, making this attack even more difficult, but I came up with this idea while thinking about how to continue to engage with Muta's if a Terran builds multiple Thors in a pure mech build. In this case, Thors are THE anti-air for the entire army, and if my testing proves effective in a real game scenario, it appears to me that the entire anti-air foundation of the mech army can be eradicated in seconds, leaving the rest of the hellions and tanks completely defenseless.

I feel that this technique could potentially aid Muta/Ling play in the PvZ matchup as well, where Archons can feel just as threatening as Thors at times.
I have no idea if this is something that's common knowledge, but I definitely don't remember reading to hold down the 'hold position' hotkey anywhere when I first learned about magic boxing; just that you were supposed to hit it to stop your Muta's from clumping once in range of a Thor, then let them go to work. I still see Pro's lose packs of Muta's to Thors frequently enough that I imagine there are plenty of other people who don't know this either. Forgive me in advance if it's already well-known, but I thought I would share this revelation with all of my fellow Zergs who have seen double-digit numbers of Mutalisks get shredded in half a second by three or four Thors.
ssartor
Profile Joined February 2011
United States129 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 22:00:27
October 30 2011 21:54 GMT
#2
Sounds legit, about to go test it out. Thanks!

EDIT: Just tested it and it works extremely well.
"If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn." — Ayn Rand (Atlas Shrugged)
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
October 30 2011 21:55 GMT
#3
Awesome!
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
Dahlian
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany37 Posts
October 30 2011 22:12 GMT
#4
Since not being able to focus fire was the downpart of magic boxing which i assumed to be quite fair because it was strong still, this makes it really mighty. Too bad thors are out in HOTS but with the warhound being more massable it might be even more crucial to bring them down fast without clumping.
Intuit these souls allowed to shine.
lordsurya08
Profile Joined September 2011
United States141 Posts
October 30 2011 22:17 GMT
#5
I tried this out and it's highly effective. Bad for me though, as I play toss and my archons will no longer hard counter mutas
Do, or do not. There is no try.
memcpy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States459 Posts
October 30 2011 22:17 GMT
#6
Sick, hope all zerg players see this.
SoniStreet
Profile Joined October 2010
Macedonia98 Posts
October 30 2011 22:18 GMT
#7
Great find, thanks for sharing - even though I'm not Zerg anymore.
Do the thing you fear and the death of fear is certain
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
October 30 2011 22:24 GMT
#8
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O
My religion is Starcraft
Reqq
Profile Joined January 2011
43 Posts
October 30 2011 22:27 GMT
#9
On October 31 2011 07:24 snively wrote:
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O


Holding a button down is the same as pressing it really quickly.

So if you hold H down and right click on a unit, you're basically saying "Attack this unit, don't move" in very rapid succession. So as long as the muta is in range of the thor, it will attack it.

Contrast this with the old magic box where you are just flying and hit H. You're basically saying "stop here," and then your muta attacks whatever it wants - which is probably not the thor, if there's anything else around.

Sweet find.
atmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7 Posts
October 30 2011 22:31 GMT
#10
On October 31 2011 07:24 snively wrote:
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O


It's not that it's overriding the command, it's that by holding down the hold position key you're spamming hundreds of 'hold position' commands per second. When you target fire, you issue a command to fire, which still goes through, but another command to hold position comes in micro seconds after you click, so the Mutalisks fire but are immediately stopped from moving. Since all it takes is one command to fire, the fact that you're issuing a hold command microseconds later doesn't matter, the command to fire has already been issued, your Muta's have already fired and are now targeting whatever you chose to focus-fire. After that they continue attacking whatever they're already being told to attack. Pressing hold position doesn't change the Muta's attack priority to attack whatever's in range, it simply tells them to stop moving and continue attacking whatever they were already being told to attack. Thus, they continue to attack whatever they were told to focus before the hold position spam comes in.
Lasbike
Profile Joined January 2011
France2888 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 22:36:00
October 30 2011 22:32 GMT
#11
On October 31 2011 07:24 snively wrote:
if the hold position overrides the attack command, why does the target firing still work? o_O

Well, by holding H down, you're saying to your mutas "Hold your position" about 20 times per second (on my computer/keyboard, i don't know about yours).

If you right click on a thor, your mutas will instantly attack it but will NOT have the time to move cause in 1/20seconds, they obviously can't pack.

...

This is awesome, how could i never try this before ! Great find.

Edit : Obviously, in the classic Mutas/Ling/Bling vs Marines/Tank/Thor fight, if you micro your mutas, you can't micro your banelings on splited marines anymore.
Hairy
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1169 Posts
October 30 2011 22:50 GMT
#12
Can't wait to get a ZvT and go try this out
Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits
RemoteLink
Profile Joined October 2011
35 Posts
October 30 2011 23:08 GMT
#13
If Zergs knew how to do this, mech would be impossible in the matchup, and very high muta counts would be ridiculously powerful.
DBunny
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada192 Posts
October 31 2011 00:30 GMT
#14
Really helpful, thanks for the tip.
Fishriot
Profile Joined May 2010
United States621 Posts
October 31 2011 00:33 GMT
#15
Great find!
theBOOCH
Profile Joined November 2010
United States832 Posts
October 31 2011 00:38 GMT
#16
Cool find!
If all you're offering is Dos Equis, I will stay thirsty thank you very much.
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
October 31 2011 00:59 GMT
#17
IdrA will absolutely freaking ADORE this.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
October 31 2011 01:07 GMT
#18
Wow, yeah this makes so much sense. Nice thinking.
ixi.genocide
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States981 Posts
October 31 2011 01:39 GMT
#19
this should be seen by all zerg players. This will add viability to muta vs mech play and will add micro to the mu.
Iselian
Profile Joined March 2011
United States56 Posts
October 31 2011 01:49 GMT
#20
Wow, great find! Always more to discover in the game, neh? Going to love using this over those clusters of thors =D
Support and critique my amateur casting! youtube.com/IselianGaming
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