• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:21
CEST 10:21
KST 17:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection4Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
SCFusion - WoL, HotS & LotV Build Order Optimizer TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? My starcraft 2 changes StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
Tesagi Viewer - A new era of replay watching 14k games analyzed: Cross Spawn Nexus first good? FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors? Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7542 users

[H] ZvP vs archons

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Cram
Profile Joined December 2010
France13 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 09:20:50
October 07 2011 08:08 GMT
#1
Hello,

I am a platinum zerg player, and I have difficulties agains protoss at the moment.
I try to play ling infestors like destiny, but I don't manage to fight the protoss army efficiently.
Maybe I misues my infestors, or I don't have good flanking enough ?

In this game he went archons and templars so i prefered roaches over zerglings (unfortunately i forgot ranged upgrades).
But I don't seem to be able to deal much damage to him, everytime I engage I lose the fight, even with 200 population.

Do you experienced players have any tips on how to play this infestor style, and how to fight archons ? I find this unit so painfull ...

Thanks for your help

Cram

Replay link :
http://marco.kun.free.fr/sc2/replays/2011-10-07 Aliocha vs Cram PvZ Grottes abyssales.SC2Replay
Obaten
Profile Joined December 2010
United States730 Posts
October 07 2011 08:11 GMT
#2
Replays would be wonderful to actually tell what went wrong.
Choros
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia530 Posts
October 07 2011 08:26 GMT
#3
Hydras can do well against archon due to their ability to target the archons at range before they can attack. Good thing about archon is that their gas is limited and you have to deal with less storm. Even so with zelots to charge the hydra it can be tough. Im thinking a hydra roach and a few baneling (for the zelot) would be the go.

That said im not having too much luck v protoss at the moment. Not having ups will kill you too.
ThomasHobbes
Profile Joined October 2010
United States197 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 08:31:41
October 07 2011 08:31 GMT
#4
Ling / Infestor is a difficult style to master, it's quite fragile and infestors are not the most mobile of units.

That said, roaches are my preferred unit when combating archons, although roach / hydra / ling should serve you fine for any templar / archon based army.

Winning any mass-engagement against Protoss is a tricky business, they're intentionally stronger than zerg when it comes down to food for food. It will come down to good positioning, good surrounds, and avoiding storms as they go down.

Because of the inherent difficulties, you should not rely or expect to necessarily beat a Protoss 1:1 in a main engagement, you need to constantly wear down his death-ball and keep his unit count low. That requires macro, and if you show me a replay, I (and other posters) can tell you where exactly you went long.

Good luck.
"The life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
Cram
Profile Joined December 2010
France13 Posts
October 07 2011 09:21 GMT
#5
Sorry i thought i had linked the replay.
Here we go

http://marco.kun.free.fr/sc2/replays/2011-10-07 Aliocha vs Cram PvZ Grottes abyssales.SC2Replay
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-07 09:50:48
October 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#6
1st big engagement: poor army management on your part. You sent your roaches in first, and half of them died before your brood lords actually got in range. When you have BLs, keep your roaches under them and let BL engage first. Another big issue was that you didn't use your infestors well at all. You had about 10 or so of them, all at full energy, and all you did was cast a few fungals. You should definitely NP some archons and throwing some infested terrans isn't a bad idea either when you have that many infestors/that much energy.

2nd big engagement: this was much much better. He just had a better army though. Whenever your army consists of mostly roaches, you can't expect to win a 200/200 battle against a stalker/archon/ht/immortal ball like that. What you can do however is kill the majority of his expensive units, and then remax faster and win in round 2. The other solution is to just make a stronger death ball yourself - less roaches, more brood lords, maybe more infestors too (you didn't have that many during this second battle). You seem to always stop at 5 brood lords - why not make more?

3rd big engagement: why the ultras? You already knew he has a lot of immortals + archons. Don't make ultras. Make more brood lords.

So to sum it up:
- More brood lords. Less (i.e. NONE) ultras.
- Keep roaches under brood lords, don't let BL wander off by themselves and don't run roaches into battle first.
- Better infestor usage - NP the archons/immortals, throw some infested terrans

Also you could have taken your 5th base much faster. You were low on gas and had thousands of minerals throughout the game, there's no reason not to get an extra free 2 geysers.

EDIT: btw, ignore the 2 posters that posted before me. Hydras are garbage. Especially against archons and zealots.
Sareth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1008 Posts
October 07 2011 10:10 GMT
#7
+1 Archons oneshot lings and blings,
+2 Archons twoshot hydras (?),
Mutas clump up and get raped by the splashdamage,
Ultas are 'ok' against archons, but the zealots will take them on easy,
forget about hydras... they suck in general, but against chargelot archon they are likely the worst choice.

Either go pure Roach with fast upgrades and be always attacking to trade armies, or go roach/infestor/broods. Then in the engagements fungal the zealots, they tend to clump up a lot and are then no match against your roaches. Neural can be usefull, if you can take archons from behind your roaches.
Dont forget the upgrades! You dont want to fight zealot/archon with an upgrade disadvantage.
BinxyBrown
Profile Joined December 2010
United States230 Posts
October 07 2011 10:25 GMT
#8
Ultras are terrible vs Archons the blue post was completely correct, vs Archon zealot in small engagements neural is great on archons they kill zealots really fast as those are biological as well.

Otherwise just listen to what Ani wrote.
Banelings are like Ice Climbers if they grab you... your dead.
Blu3
Profile Joined August 2010
United States126 Posts
October 07 2011 10:56 GMT
#9
Lings are small and will get eaten u with the archon's aoe attack as well as storm. Don't use them vs this build, switch to roaches would probably be the smartest idea here. Especially because he will have zlots to fill out the army.

As for those infestors, use the IT!!!! The fungals won't do as much as you think vs this protoss build. Try and throw some behind their army to both act as your surround and keep them from running. The roaches will hold the line and the IT actually will do a great deal of damage.

Both roaches and IT benefit from the same upgrades as well, making this somewhat efficient from your tech switch!
Blu3
Blu3 is the color that wins
Cram
Profile Joined December 2010
France13 Posts
October 07 2011 12:35 GMT
#10
Ok guys thanks much for these answers, there is a lot of interesting stuff in what you wrote there. I'mgonna try fixing my game an not make again the mistakes you talked about
Glon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States569 Posts
October 07 2011 16:31 GMT
#11
You are missing the point of ling infestor: it is good vs gateway + collosus balls, NOT good vs arcon and HT. As zerg, get overlord speed immediantly after initial lair upgrades/tech buildings. Scout his main with 1, natural with another, spread other overlords around map, ect.

the point: vs arcon or HT, infestor roach is the correct unit comp. I would even get away from ling infestor -- roach infestor with lings added in (still getting ling upgrades for hive tech units) is by far more efficient + better.
@QuanticGlon https://twitter.com/QuanticGlon
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
21:30
GSL Ro8 Group B Replay Cast
Maru vs SHIN
Rogue vs Zoun
PiGStarcraft907
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9041
BeSt 288
Soma 205
scan(afreeca) 133
Leta 93
Larva 75
Dewaltoss 63
910 38
Mong 35
yabsab 23
[ Show more ]
Movie 20
Bale 11
League of Legends
JimRising 589
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1494
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King84
Other Games
PiGStarcraft907
RuFF_SC250
KnowMe37
Sick21
OptimusSC23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick756
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH265
• StrangeGG 47
• LUISG 10
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1923
• Stunt1328
• Rush1002
• Jankos889
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
39m
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6h 39m
Grudge Match
7h 39m
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm
OSC
12h 39m
MaxPax vs YoungYakov
Krystianer vs Shameless
GgMaChine vs Creature
LetaleX vs MiniZergUA
ReBellioN vs TBD
ArT vs HiGhDrA
Nicoract vs Azura
GSL
23h 39m
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
1d 4h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 6h
BSL
1d 10h
OSC
1d 15h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.