EPTis this strategy overpowered? or just REALLY hard to stop. i scouted it immediately switched to roach hydra. and was it to late?
Replay here:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14042
[H] cant stop a 7 gate?
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Calypso123
United States42 Posts
is this strategy overpowered? or just REALLY hard to stop. i scouted it immediately switched to roach hydra. and was it to late? Replay here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14042 | ||
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SasukeStreams
Netherlands174 Posts
I'll edit my post later when i get back from work and watch the replay  | ||
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Calypso123
United States42 Posts
Thanks | ||
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Calypso123
United States42 Posts
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
You guys start to schrimish a little bit ~15:30. I would just like to say you could have easily had a third up for a LONG time, which not only gives you a better econ to pump more units, but it also gives you more production. I mean you have one drone at your third. As far as my experience goes you should be able to take a third as early as 4:30-5 mins, especially since you see his expo. I mean just think how much this extra econ would have helped you. At the 15 minute mark you could have been maxed very easily. Another important note is that you are banking some minerals when his attack hits and this is bad for obvious reasons. IMO your unit combination was less than optimal, especially since he had 34 zealots which really nullifies your zerglings completely... Basically you just need to read things better, you saw his TC and that his wall was still up, and you did see his unit comp with your overseer ect. | ||
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ObliviousNA
United States535 Posts
He may have BUILT 7 gates, but turtling to 180 food with gateway units is not a '7 gate' build. Also, your macro is NOT sufficient if your opponent has more food with gateway units than you do with roach hydra. (You should have been on 3 base for a significant amount of time already!) | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On October 07 2011 13:25 Calypso123 wrote: just watched replay again, my +2 Armour upgrade wasn't complete almost. Neither was +1 missile. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
You should have 3 expands and ~60 drones + 4 lings at the 8:00 mark vs a FE-toss before you even start building units. You were sitting on 31 workers at that time and were severely behind. Try something like this build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259629 | ||
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SheffiTB
Canada223 Posts
He FFEd. That means you take an immediate third, drone up hardcore to 60 drones and 2-3 gas, get 1/1 melee and (if you have time) ranged, and pump mass roach/ling. Roach/hydra isn't very good against this type of push, and delays your production since you have to get an early lair. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On October 07 2011 13:42 SheffiTB wrote: I sped through the replay, and here's what I noticed: You should've had a 200/200 army when he attacked, not a 150 supply one. He FFEd. That means you take an immediate third, drone up hardcore to 60 drones and 2-3 gas, get 1/1 melee and (if you have time) ranged, and pump mass roach/ling. Roach/hydra isn't very good against this type of push, and delays your production since you have to get an early lair. Do you think he should go for a surround with the lings since there was 34 zealots? | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On October 07 2011 13:36 ObliviousNA wrote: You should adjust your OP, there is no way a 7 gate has 178 food... He may have BUILT 7 gates, but turtling to 180 food with gateway units is not a '7 gate' build. Also, your macro is NOT sufficient if your opponent has more food with gateway units than you do with roach hydra. (You should have been on 3 base for a significant amount of time already!) The protoss actually did a semi decent 2 gas/40 probe 7 gate. P could have killed Z at any time from the 9 minute mark if he just moved out, he had twice the army value. But he was unnecessarily passive. | ||
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Calypso123
United States42 Posts
 yea the wall defently had a big gap but for some reason you couldn't get through idk its whatever. i usually take my natural at 20 food then my third at 24 idk why i didn't that how most my games go into mass upgraded lings and muta i get the baneling nest. i try to pick off colossi deny his 3rd till he cant do anything when he pushed i make banes and just kill his whole army. i guess i just didn't that game haha kinda stupid but whatever. it was a very good build from him. i looked at his match history all the same build..:/ probably will get to masters with it.. which is sad bc i think he prolly isnt that great at anything else. but i guess whatever.-Again Thanks Guys | ||
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ETisME
12621 Posts
in some cases, I scouted 7 gate and prepare for it but even so, with the chrono upgrades, if I didn't get range upgrades, my lings and hydras are in no shape to deal with 7 gate, any thoughts? | ||
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Pendulum
United States10 Posts
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On October 07 2011 14:09 ETisME wrote: I would love some advice too. in some cases, I scouted 7 gate and prepare for it but even so, with the chrono upgrades, if I didn't get range upgrades, my lings and hydras are in no shape to deal with 7 gate, any thoughts? Just make sure you know about when they are moving out, if you see a spinning forge you know you atleast have a little bit of time. If you go in with an overseer ect and see a spinning tc you know you have more time. Basically it is a balancing game between your econ and your scouting, because if you scout it and prepare properly you can deal with it really easy, but you need to make sure you drone as hard as you can without going to far, and then producing enough units to hold the push. Basically what the OP did was get behind early with a 13 worker disadvantage at 7 mins which is never a good thing to have. Basically just make sure you know what he is doing, and most importantly keep a ling outside of his wall to see when he starts to move out and check his ups ect. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
A faster roach warren + lings and burrow from your lair would have served you much better, and can definitely give you a good enough army before the 8 minute mark to hold off the attack. Roaches are good against zealots as well as being cheaper than hydralisks so you can get more upgrades and maybe even a better timed third. Add lings in line with the amount of stalkers he has. Burrow acts like a soft-tech roadblock for him, if he doesn't have mobile detection he will find it extremely difficult to engage efficiently even with a larger army if you have any kind of army control. Beyond that, a twilight council should trigger infestor tech as fungal is a good way to lock down blink stalkers and charge zealots making them fodder for your roach/ling, the resource distribution also plays very well together and works toward your hive. Without breaking down all the possibly transitions out of roach/ling it's a bit hard to continue, but that's all you should need to know to hold off a 6-7 gate, a combination of the well-timed upgrades (+1 hits before 8 minutes) and burrow + roach/ling should give you a strong enough base to work from to hold those kinds of attacks long enough to match his blink/charge timing with infestor tech and still have a strong economy Hope this helps. | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
On October 07 2011 13:35 Yamulo wrote: At like 6 something you randomly made a lot of lings and tried to run them through a wall.... This really should never work, unless you are playing a bad player that can't make the wall... Btw you are down 7 drones at 6:34 because of this. Maybe smooth out your early game a bit. A third at 12 minutes is just not good at all, and you can really drone a bit harder, especially since you see he hasn't moved out yet. I mean as a zerg player being down like 30 supply at 12 minutes is not good at all and you really should be looking for an earlier third. Your spines are way early, they did not need to go down when they did, and just the fact that you made them that early hurts you a lot. You guys start to schrimish a little bit ~15:30. I would just like to say you could have easily had a third up for a LONG time, which not only gives you a better econ to pump more units, but it also gives you more production. I mean you have one drone at your third. As far as my experience goes you should be able to take a third as early as 4:30-5 mins, especially since you see his expo. I mean just think how much this extra econ would have helped you. At the 15 minute mark you could have been maxed very easily. Another important note is that you are banking some minerals when his attack hits and this is bad for obvious reasons. IMO your unit combination was less than optimal, especially since he had 34 zealots which really nullifies your zerglings completely... Basically you just need to read things better, you saw his TC and that his wall was still up, and you did see his unit comp with your overseer ect. If your opponent 7gate all-ins and you take a fast 3rd you auto lose. If the protoss plays properly that is. However I think this is a lack of ability to play the mid-game by the zerg. I would suggest an 11 overpool opening or 15 hatch (be ready to block pylon wall off) into a quick 2 base saturation, once that is complete you amass +1/+1 lings and infestors (you should be on 2 base saturation before lair is done). This stops all forms of gateway all-ins. If he does a 8-9-gate zealot all-in try scouting and throwing down a roach warren instead of getting 3 sets of lings. If he is going zealot heavy you can always make roaches, and if he is going stalkers you have lings. Basically the only reason you should ever lose to a 7gate is if they get blink and warprism and do a speshal takcit or something :| | ||
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Methnos
Russian Federation36 Posts
Now I am not a professional player by all means but what I have been doing is going for a very fast third. My opening is : 11 overpool 16 queen Queen after second inject at main and movbe first queen to natural. Third queen when natural morphs Tumor And move itto third Third at like 4-5 minutes. Drone like its my job until the 7.30-8.00 and then I mass roaches + lings. I am rank 3 platinum on EU and do this against diamond toss. I hold it off more often than not. I am maxed on roach ling at around 12.30, 13.00 and win with counters and denying his third. | ||
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Aui_2000
Canada435 Posts
On October 07 2011 16:18 Kornholi0 wrote: If your opponent 7gate all-ins and you take a fast 3rd you auto lose. If the protoss plays properly that is. Now that's just not true at all. Fast 3 base zerg against forge FE into roach ling can defend a 7 gate all in perfectly fine. | ||
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Methnos
Russian Federation36 Posts
On October 07 2011 17:03 Validity wrote: Now that's just not true at all. Fast 3 base zerg against forge FE into roach ling can defend a 7 gate all in perfectly fine. I second this. Perfect injects and hard droning to 60+ into 1-1 roaches and lings to buffer deals with a FFE 7 gate. | ||
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