EPTThis is a shared account for Incognito and Mystlord. Mystlord hasn't played for a while (since TL Mafia XVIII), and we both have little time to actually play (I am taking 6 classes this quarter). Flamewheel has already approved this request.
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
This is a shared account for Incognito and Mystlord. Mystlord hasn't played for a while (since TL Mafia XVIII), and we both have little time to actually play (I am taking 6 classes this quarter). Flamewheel has already approved this request. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 13 2012 14:26 Ciryandor wrote: /confirm LOL I won't vote for Kitaman after XLVIII's disaster. He was an absolute derp in that. Waiting for people to put in a serious campaign with a decent policy. This is why I'm waiting for Mr. Wiggles and Cyber_Cheese to provide us with good reasons; and right now, Wiggles has the best campaign of the lot. I of course wonder if Sandroba or Palmar will try to get to the elections again. I'm running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. There's no way you seriously think Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 13 2012 15:22 Ciryandor wrote: LOL that's a good reason to get you voted in. Lynching someone for having an opinion. What does this post do? Ciryandor does not attempt to clarify his earlier position or attempt to bring us into mutual understanding. Instead, he mockingly attempts to discredit me by misrepresenting my statement and reframing it in a way that paints him in a favorable light. I never say that I want to lynch him for having an opinion, I called bullshit on his statement that Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign. Seriously, if you really believe what you said, tell us why you thought Mr. Wiggles had the best campaign. Furthermore, Ciryandor initially states that: On January 13 2012 14:26 Ciryandor wrote: /confirm LOL I won't vote for Kitaman after XLVIII's disaster. He was an absolute derp in that. Waiting for people to put in a serious campaign with a decent policy. This is why I'm waiting for Mr. Wiggles and Cyber_Cheese to provide us with good reasons; and right now, Wiggles has the best campaign of the lot. I of course wonder if Sandroba or Palmar will try to get to the elections again. While Ciryandor says that he wants to hear good reasons for Wiggles/Cyber_Cheese running, he makes no attempt to draw out information from Wiggles even though it is clear that they are both online (they are both posting until page 24). Instead, he loosely dismisses my accusations as well as GGQ's, and proceeds to babble nonsense about Foolishness and Bill Murray. Ciryandor is twisting my words. Ciryandor is bullshitting that Wiggles has the best campaign. Ciryandor shows no further interest in extracting information about Wiggles' campaign despite claiming he wanted good reasons. Ciryandor continues to babble on about useless topics (Bill Murray) after giving a strange reaction to my/GGQ's accusations. I've noticed that a lot of players are omitting my campaign for mayor in their lists of people running for mayor. But I'm not trolling. I am seriously running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
The PM debate is an old one. Everyone has their opinion on whether it is town or mafia favored, and even through out-of-game debates, this is a highly controversial topic. If it can' be solved out of game, there's absolutely no way we are going to come up with a consensus in game. BC defends his claim by saying that getting everyone to contribute on this polarizing topic will help us get early reads on players. But if we can't agree on anything out of game, you won't really be able to say that someone saying "PMs good!" or "PMs bad!" will tell us anything about their alignment. Anyone can pretty much say whatever they like since they are under no obligation or pressure to have an opinion one way or the other on this issue. While it is debatable whether PMs are "good" or "bad" for town, it shouldn't be too controversial to say that PMs are elitist. They inherently favor good players who can make use of the extra channel of communication. When you are talking to someone in PMs, always keep in mind what you think the other person wants from you. Are they trying to convince you of a certain point of view? Are they trying to get you to claim? As long as you can keep in mind that the PM initiator may be attempting to manipulate you and don't give away information loosely, PMs really aren't that scary. What exactly has BC been discussing? Primarily, he has divided his attention between defending his claim, responding to attacks on the potnetial that he is red, and asking for "discussion" while pushing a particularly biased point of view. More clearly stated, he proposes a seemingly open-ended question, and answers it himself to make it appear like there was a town consensus behind it. If you look at the thread, the only real contribution to the discussion that DOESN'T come from BC is sandroba's suggestion that all the masons roleclaim. And notice BC's bias when discussing the topic. In almost all his posts, BC paints PMs in a bad light. He only seriously acknowledges that town masons have the potential to catch scum, but in the same post, quickly says that "its harder than you think": On January 14 2012 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Town masons have the potential to catch scum. Dts have the potential have finding scum. Vigi's have the potential to shooting scum. Jacks could do all 3. Of the group, masons rely on their ability to read people and read posts to get a good view of someone. Catching someone in pms is not as easy as everyone thinks it is and historically towns have town far more retarded things there than good. But lets look at a section of what BC has to say a bout PMs in his guide "TL Town Breakdown/Analysis": On January 28 2011 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Private Messaging This feature has been in a fair number of TL games. It is also an amazing tool if used properly. However, if it is not used properly, the mafia will abuse it and potentially win. They are also a function if used improperly will cause people to feel left out and like they don’t matter as players. Pm’s can and do make people elitist in games. IF Pm’s are allowed in a game they should be used properly. Role fishing, small analysis groups, alignment testing. Role fishing is straightforward so I will not go into it at this time. Small analysis groups. These groups need not be large, as you only need a few heads to flesh out analysis on people. It also means that if a red is in your group, it is easier to catch them, and it keeps the other groups safe from infiltration. Alignment testing. This is posting in a way to let you carefully analyze reactions. Townies are more inclined to answer in one way and mafia/blues another. Sometimes this will be obvious such as catching someone lying to you in pm’s or lying in thread. Other times this will be noticing subtle word choices. Regardless of how you opt to use the tool, if you do not feel comfortable in your ability to use them properly do not use them and play the game via the thread. Ask for detail from Ace on this, as he dislikes the PM feature. Quite a contradictory opinion from what he states in game. The essence of BC's out of game stance is that: "PMs are like playing with fire. Could be insanely awesome if used correctly, but could burn you if you don't. If you don't feel comfortable, don't use them". This is quite a stark contrast to his position in this game, where he seriously downplays the usefulness of town PMs, and does a bit of fear mongering in emphasizing how the mafia can screw you over with PMs. Is it possible that BC has changed his stance? I doubt it, but it certainly is possible. So lets dig deeper here. How is BC pushing his opinion? He does it subtly, and attempts to dissociate it from his personal point of view. In the beginning of his campaign to discuss masons, BC heavily uses the word "discuss" or "discussion", asks how "we as a whole" want to deal with masons, emphasizes that this is a discussion everyone should be weighing in on, and attempts to get the community involved in the discussion. He doesn't outright present his personal point of view, and frames the discussion so that it appears free and open-ended. But pretty much injects his own opinion into the discussion whenver possible. His initial point is that mafia masons are dangerous and that town needs to have a plan to deal with that. When asked for an example of PMs in action, BC drags in an example where he manipulated VE to do pro-mafia actions in just 1-2 PMs. (Reinforcing his stance on "PMs are scary") When asked behind why he thinks a mass claim will interfere with the mafia masons, he proposes in the hypothetical that if town agrees to not use PMs, then it shuts down mafia masons. A few posts later, he reemphasizes that "by making the town decide, vocally, now, we force everyone to have an opinion." While this is fine and dandy, really he is the one calling the shots here. When Cyber_Cheese suggests that we let masons use their discretion and suggests that smart town masons could cause the mafia masons to backfire, BC counters with "Mafia masons have the experience of an entire team to work manipulate someone", subtly pushing his opinion that PMs should be shunned. On January 14 2012 05:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I am fine with either it, or having town just say "we ignore all pms that arent host pms" Making every mason accountable / making them useless to prevent manipulation seems the best play at the moment. making them all claim however is the optimal play, it may out the group of us, but it also prevents mafia from using their ability without being in the spotlight. When asked about his opinion on a mason claim, he says he's fine with it, but takes the opportunity to inject more of his "ignore all PMs" idea into the conversation (notice that nobody else has been saying "lets ignore PMs"). BC is pushing the anti-PM agenda, in a way that is quite subtle. He constantly brings in reference to "the town needs to decide", or "this is a very important discussion that everyone needs to weigh in on", while he is really the one dominating the conversation. In other words, he is injecting his mafia bias into the discussion while attempting to pass it off as a town discussion or collective town decision. Here's something BC didn't tell you. As he has told me in the past (out of game): "keep in mind as red i rarely pm", and "my heavy pm use is town play". Now what about the "spotlight factor" brought up by Meapak? BC putting himself in the spotlight is nothing unusual, both for his mafia and town play. If you've read past games, think of BC's style as much the same as Ace's. As stated above, red BC doesn't use a PM heavy style. He uses a style that focuses on thread control, shutting down serious opposition through arguments and generally trashing the thread. BC claiming mason does not give him any +town points in my book. The general heuristic of "mafia want to avoid the spotlight" doesn't apply to BC, who is an experienced mafia player and has proven that he is well capable of taking the spotlight as red. So what is the scenario for BC being red and pushing his mason claim? BC is in fact red, and can use the mason power (chooses it for himself early in the day). As a town mason would, BC picks a mason target and starts talking to them. Once he gets the town to agree to ban masons, he is off the hook, and doesn't have to worry about PMs anymore. More specifically, he doesn't have to worry about town PMs. Like stated before, mafia BC plays a powerhouse thread control style. By banning PMs, BC doesn't lose out on much (he admits he isn't a heavy PM user), and nerfs Foolishness, sandroba, and my abilities to play a PM centric game (which we are known for). And that's what is the difference between this game and XLII (the game he refers to when he says he dominates with only 1-2 PMs). Foolishness and I are playing in this game, and are real threats. BC wants to shut down PMs before it starts, and he doesn't have to give up much information or lie at all in order to do it. Furthermore, he has not followed up on his campaign promise: "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like. (I have already done this with foolishness, he knows better)." Ok, so maybe he called out Foolishness yesterday, but where is the scumhunting today? Its non-existent, because BC is too busy derailing the thread with mason discussions instead of scumhunting. What is even more interesting is the timing of his initial claim post. It comes an hourish after my second post against Ciryandor, which conveniently most people except for sandroba and sheth have ignored. 1. BloodyC0bbler derailed today's discussion onto the irrelevant, highly controversial, and unsolvable PM debate. 2. Because the community is split over the PM debate, discussing it tells us nothing about alignment even if people contribute to the discussion. In other words, BC is overexaggerating the importance of this discussion. 3. BloodyC0bbler is masking his intentions and his clear anti-PM agenda, [b]which is inconsistent with his previous (out of game) stance on PMs). 4. BloodyC0bbler is trying to frame the discussion as an open discussion, when he is clearly injecting his personal bias. 5. BloodyC0bbler's actions are completely consistent with his mafia style, which is to spread chaos and control the thread atmoshere and discussion. 6. BloodyC0bbler's actions are not consistent with his campaign promise to analyze and call out people. He has done none of that today BloodyC0bbler is mafia. If you vote for me I will lynch him. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
Some clarifications about my BC analysis: While yes, I did state that BC's opinions here are inconsistent with his out of game comments, this is not the foundation of my argument, they are just icing on the cake. I am glad your third game post of the thread is once again a "i am running on the campaign of lynch this player" it gives nothing on yourself and yet people think you are doing something commendable. You ignore all game discussion and opt to push your own agenda to off players. I am impressed good sir. However, you fail to realize that I am not being the lazy bored me, I am actually playing. Does the fact that I am saying "I am running on the campaign of lynching this player" really say nothing about myself, as BC so claims? No, in fact, it gives you a lot about me. It tells you that I am a no nonsense player who will get straight to the point without cluttering my posts with irrelevant details. It tells you that I am serious about finding mafia and have no interest in spreading confusion and spam in the thread. And you'll notice that I don't only say "I want to lynch X", I actually give reasons for wanting to do so. BC is trying to misrepresent me and trying to convince you that I have done nothing for the town, which is clearly false. Notice how even at this point he still hasn't commented on my case on Ciryandor. BC lies about me ignoring his game discussion. In fact, I devote the first 3 paragraphs of my post just to address the little drama BC has created. I say that his discussion is an irrelevant and unsolvable one that will get us nowhere, while stating my opinion that PMs favor good players and aren't really that scary for town if used properly. That's really all that needs to be said. Yet instead, BC has taken the mason subject and expanded over many pages of the thread, conveniently trashing it and derailing the important discussion of who the mafia is. Look at the bolded section. Pushing my agenda to off players? BC tries to make me look like some bloodthirsty/trigger happy mafia. Guess what: The town's agenda is to kill the mafia!. So yes, my agenda is to kill mafia. That is much different from wanting to "off players". BC is inflating the importance of his "discussion"'s contribution to the town's agenda and is trying to marginalize my attempts to scumhunt, which really should be the town's priority. The italicized portion is irrelevant. I do not fail to consider that you are playing the game instead of being bored, since in fact, boredom is more a characteristic of your town play, not your mafia play. So in this little paragraph, what has BC actually done? He has attempted to discredit me by ignoring all my contributions, inflated the importance of his own contributions to the thread, and attempted to paint me as a trigger happy lunatic. Misrepresentation at its finest, and something that strongly indicates a mafia. I could go on and on to detail more paragraphs, but this should be sufficient. Notice the bolded section near the top, you know, the amazing tool if used properly? How about we continue reading to where i state it is not used properly and mafia abuse it to win. This is a joke. He does not state that it is not used properly, he says that IF it is not used properly, mafia can abuse it to win. If you read BC's PM stance, it is quite moderate and reasonable. Use PMs if you are comfortable in using them properly, ignore them if you don't. In this game? "Ahhhh ignore PMs like the plaguuuuuu! They are so evil!!" I do appreciate that you are gunning for people, but you know just as well as I do that masons who are only able to talk to 1 person once over 1 day cycle when unexperienced in that field is a detriment to the town, not a positive. If you refuse to admit to this then we both know your scum alignment. Its not as simple as that. Say, as town I am able to PM with an inexperienced mafia. That is a positive, not a detriment. BC is taking the case where inexperienced townies get into PMs with mafia and get burned, ignoring the case where a capable PM practitioner is able to leverage PMs for an advantage. BC creates an ultimatum where I am branded as mafia if I do not accept his rather skewed and overly-general statement that does not acknowledge the complexity of the PM issue. What I also find amusing is you concentrate on my mafia style play but ignore my town style play which is near identical (as you well know) where the differences are pushing mafia or town objectives. Bored BC is usually townie BC. But in the case that he is playing seriously as town, a simple check on two separate games with BC as town shows that his style is much different from this game. TL Mafia XX PYP3 In TL Mafia XX, BC proposes a plan, answers questions about it, but is rather straightforward and decisive with what he wants to do. He even roleclaims before the end of the election. But what is different this time? He clearly gives an outline of how his claim was a move to get votes, and in the next post to gauge reactions. He doesn't stir the pot by saying "hey lets get a discussion going", he just states his opinions, and scumhunts. Keeps most of his opinions to himself when they aren't necessary, but otherwise its pretty clear he isn't trying to stir things up chaos here. In PYP3, BC doesn't do nonsense. He has almost all analytical posts (about setup/the drafting situation first, then followed by attacks on LSB), and again isn't posting "to stir up discussion". BC's town behavior in these two games completely contrasts with this game. He heavily overemphasizes "lets get discussion going", never gives any indication that he wants to find mafia until he counter-attacks me in his defense against my accusation, and has many contradictions in his posts. Even in the above quote, BC says the differences are when he is pushing a mafia or town objective. Where is he pushing the town objective??? BC does no scumhunting, and is content to litter the thread with nonsense while attempting to marginalize my contributions. So no. Unlike what BC wants to make you think, my case is NOT based primarily on out of game connections. Those are simply bonuses. A quick look at BC's posts show that: He does not display any attempt to find mafia, despite his original campaign promise that "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like.". He has overemphasized creating discussion on masons and manipulated the course of this discussion while derailing from the town objective to find mafia. As shown in the first section of this post, BC deliberately misinterprets my post and attempts to discredit me by painting me as a triggerhappy who just wants to off people. Lets be honest here. Look at my posts, and look at BC's posts. Which is more important, BC's mason discussion, or my who is mafia discussion? If one of us is really trying to derail the discussion, who is it??? BC is mafia. I am shocked that so many people are still voting for him, though I suppose its natural, since mafia candidates never are lacking in votes. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 15 2012 08:37 rgTheSchworz wrote: So confused at the moment. Have the feeling we're going nowhere, even worse, several of our blues have blundered. I'm gonna vote BM, as Sandroba has the highest chance of being scum out of potential candidates.His posts have been weird enough, he runs for mayor then isnt particularly active or scum-hunting,some of his posts like the one with the eagle landing on his arm disturbed me. I'll keep an eye on the following: Risk.nuke, Palmar. I feel palmar still has a role to play. Don't lynch him day1, maybe day 2 if he continues like that. The whole mason thing started by BC was useless in my opinion.50/50 chance of being mafia/town. Bollocks, they're maybe more town masons than mafia, maybe less. You can't know that, unless maybe.. you have external information. Also, as sandro is suspicious and BC had made a sort of a deal with him, my feelings about this persona shall remain mixed at best. When the town isn't going anywhere, look for mafia interference. I clearly have been trying to give some direction to this thread, so there isn't really the excuse that the town is just newb and doesn't know what to do. Furthermore, this game isn't like some others where 2 mistaken townies pollute the thread by attacking each other on pretty thin grounds. If you look at the thread as a whole, you probably will only be able to find 1 player who really sticks out of the discussion, and that's BC. If you agree that the town isn't going anywhere, the question should be why. BC has steered the course of the discussion for the most part of this day, despite only having around 5% of the total game posts. While I have no problem with someone having this few amount of posts, an examination of BC's posts shows that he has created more ? He creates a discussion which blows up disproportionately to its significance in the game. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 15 2012 08:37 rgTheSchworz wrote: So confused at the moment. Have the feeling we're going nowhere, even worse, several of our blues have blundered. I'm gonna vote BM, as Sandroba has the highest chance of being scum out of potential candidates.His posts have been weird enough, he runs for mayor then isnt particularly active or scum-hunting,some of his posts like the one with the eagle landing on his arm disturbed me. I'll keep an eye on the following: Risk.nuke, Palmar. I feel palmar still has a role to play. Don't lynch him day1, maybe day 2 if he continues like that. The whole mason thing started by BC was useless in my opinion.50/50 chance of being mafia/town. Bollocks, they're maybe more town masons than mafia, maybe less. You can't know that, unless maybe.. you have external information. Also, as sandro is suspicious and BC had made a sort of a deal with him, my feelings about this persona shall remain mixed at best. When the town isn't going anywhere, look for mafia interference. I clearly have been trying to give some direction to this thread, so there isn't really the excuse that the town is just newb and doesn't know what to do. Furthermore, this game isn't like some others where 2 mistaken townies pollute the thread by attacking each other on pretty thin grounds. If you look at the thread as a whole, you probably will only be able to find 1 player who really sticks out of the discussion, and that's BC. If you agree that the town isn't going anywhere, the question should be why. BC has steered the course of the discussion for the most part of this day, despite only having around 5% of the total game posts. While I have no problem with someone having this few amount of posts, an examination of BC's posts shows that he has created more confusion and unanswered questions than answers and direction. The conclusion is that the mafia are interfering with the town's attempt to find clarity. In other words, the game has a mafia-favored atmosphere. As you know, my thesis is that BloodyC0bbler is at the bottom of it. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 13 2012 22:46 Macpo wrote: hi everyone! /confirm. I am a complete noob in this game, so please be forgiving to my small mistakes here and there! I'll try to share my views on this first day. Sorry if it's a bit clumsy, I am doing my best. 1. concerning the mayor election, I don't know if it's a usual thing, but I feel it's a bad idea to have too many people running for the election... in a sense, this mess is already a success for the mafia, isn't it? So, I would suggest that the persons who don't seem to be so concerned with it just stop running for the election, so that we have only a few candidates left. It doesn't mean there will be more or less scums among the left candidates, but at least, we can look more closely to who they are and clarify things. But maybe that's a bad idea! about who could be a good mayor, I am not so sure right now.(how difficult is it to ground any judgment at the moment!  ) I think the main thing is to keep in mind that whoever we elect, we are absolutely not sure of who he really is, even if we convincingly voted for him after some reasonable discussion.So let me give my two cents (not worth more!). I have to say I appreciated the candidacy of Mr Wriggles  , who has a clear argumentation and is pleasant to read. Not talking too much, making clear logical points. The only thing I am afraid of is that it may be a trick. Also, the Foolishness Bill murray candidacy sounds too big to be mafia-ish. There are claiming their "alliance" too loud, it would be way too risky for them if they were mafia, as everyone focuses on them. So, paradoxically, I would trust them more (or Bill Murray more precisely) as mayor. So I guess I will vote either Mr Wriggles, or Bill Murray; Mr Wriggles being more rational and precise in his analysis (but maybe it's a game) while Bill Murray is more a safety choice (with our very limited information, I feel it's rational to assume that he can't be mafia). But these are only very limited hypotheses and assumptions. How do you guys feel about that? I am also kind of sad that Echelon tee didn't apply, as I feel I share most of his analyses up to now . except for foolishness maybe. 2. Reading the whole 5 pages of debate, I noticed a few things. First is Cyber_cheese. What's the point of attacking Mr Wriggles from the beginning? that doesn't help for town cohesion at all (even more if it's a "joke"). it just looks like he wants to create a mess. Other people seem to have similar concerns with him, so maybe this is something worth discussing alltogether. So what do you think? Cyber, if maybe, could you say a word about this? To make it clear, it's merely an impression, I don't want to focus too much on you either. In a sense, Cyber is obviously not the only one. I feel that there are many useless agressive posts all around. So how do you guys feel about that? For instance, lthe ast one between Wherebugsgo and palmar, (as Toadesstern remarked): What's the point of being aggressive like that if you are town? Correct me if I am wrong, but I see no other reason for such a behaviour than one of them at least being scum. At the same time WBG's analysis sounds convincing for the moment. Others in similar situations would be nisani for instance. But maybe I am missing things here... Feel free to criticize my analysis, I am here to improve! and all my apologies to the misaccused persons , but from what I read in various guides, we have to go through this to find out real mafia... Macpo Notice how Macpo begins and ends his post with excuses, apologies, and emphasis on learning. His excuses and apologies function to say that he is useless and shouldn't be listened to. Not to mention, the actual content of his posts is in the middle. Why would he do this? It basically functions like this: he emphasizes his noobiness, which encourages you to ignore everything that he is going to say. And after he says it, he again emphasizes his noobiness, encouraging you to ignore everything he just said. He has no interest in having his voice count. Why would a townie want to do this? If you wanted to learn and participate in the game, you wouldn't want to be ignored. You wouldn't emphasize your uselessness, and would instead attempt to participate in the game. People may correct you, but if you haven't done anything wrong, why apologize? All the excuses and apologies do is make people ignore you. And if you look at Macpo's posts, its something he does quite well. In future posts, Macpo is ignored, and he pops up twice just to answer accusations to himself (while still apologizing). If you are really interested in learning, you wouldn't apologize when you've done nothing wrong, which is exactly what a mafia would want to do. Mafia inherently feel guilty, and see suspicion when there is none directed toward them. just a short question : how are you so sure that palmar is scum? palmar sounded a bit agressive, but saying he is easy to read? (I am not asking this with an agressive suspicious tone, just trying to figure things out) Notice how he ends his question with an excuse. Why is he so afraid of people thinking he is asking in an aggressive suspicious tone? Why is he so scared that people would think he actually holds an opinion? Macpo continues to cover up any potential suspicion on him before it even happens, which is something only mafia do. Even in his last post he states To those complaining about me being rational, it's getting obvious that they prefer random one line crap to argumentation. I'll answer back when they'll meet my standards. Nobody ever complains about Macpo being rational, but even so, why would you even deem this worthy of a response? All this statement does is "you dont meet my standards, i'll respond when you do". A completely different attitude from his first posts "I'm newb, i may be a bit clumsy, tell me if im doing anything wrong". He goes from a submissive "i am inferior to you" to suddenly thinking he has the license to ignore people because they don't meet his standards. Quite bold for someone who claims to be a newbie, don't you think? Macpo overemphasizes his newbieness, offers no real opinions, jarringly disconnected from the events that are happening in thread. Lets save BC for later and just lynch this guy. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote: I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are. Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind: - Refallen 2 empty posts. - Munk-E 1 empty post. - Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines. - d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines. - igabod 4 posts 4 lines. - rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position. - Maxella 2 posts. Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells. Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY. Oh icing on the cake! You don't really think that these players who have posted almost nothing have given "scum tells" do you? Either way, if they did, you certainly are not clarifying for us. Providing a list without any additional insight? Check. Suggesting its more than 20% scum in here without any evidence? Check. Ironically, he bolds two statements that contradict each other. Thinking there's more than 20% scum there is not remotely rational. Few # of posts does not indicate that people are hiding. Providing an empty list while passing it off as a contribution is though. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
If so, why are you pushing such a new player despite the fact that plenty of other players have played similarly to him? I'm not Foolishness, but the bolded statement is false. Nobody else has overemphasized their newbiness in an attempt to hide in their first 3 posts. Macpo is the obvious lynch at the moment. This is a textbook example of mafia. See: Misder from Ver's TL Mafia XXX Guide | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
"Denying mayor or sheriff is huge for scum, so I believe it's worth it to have as many scum run as possible." Generally wrong. Mafia don't need both spots, and generally have a hard time getting both. They just need 1, and they need a strong candidate to do so. You can generally tell just from reading the player roster who actually stands a chance before the game starts. It is far fetched to think that the mafia is going to field their entire roster just to get a higher chance of getting elected, since as you can tell, mayor elections aren't random. Running for mayor also puts you in the spotlight. For example, 3 mafia in PYP Interesting pretty much outed themselves just by giving a half-assed campaign. Denying isn't really that crucial in this game since there are no PMs. (Offices are much more powerful with PMs because now you have unkillable people who are able to coordinate behind the scenes. With no PMs, that is not an issue). General Announcement to the Mafia: I will certainly heavily analyze the two bodyguards before the night is over. Just letting you know in case you were thinking of subbing in members. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 16 2012 12:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Incog, you posted on the wrong account duder. Is that all you have to say about my post? That's disappointing. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 16 2012 12:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I haven't fully read it yet tbh, I just saw the wrong name. Your giant blocks of texts much like my own take awhile to read. Well I hope you can read it objectively. On a side note, note L's apathetic response. Lets vote for a double lynch today. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
Sandroba is obviously innocent now. ##Vote Macpo | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 16 2012 12:32 wherebugsgo wrote: 4 KP and right after deadline, Protac says "sandro is innocent because Ciryandor flipped scum" Sup scum gambit? Nah its simpler than that. Sandroba was the first person who supported my case on Ciryandor, when everyone else was ignoring it. The thread was very chaotic, and my case was otherwise being ignored. There's no reason for the mafia to resurrect suspicions on one of their members if it is long gone and buried. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
![[image loading]](http://s1.hubimg.com/u/5308476_f520.jpg) There's some bad news and some good news. The bad news is that day 1 had a horribly mafia-favored atmosphere. The good news is that the mafia didn't take advantage of it. That is to say, the mafia became complacent because they didn't need to do much to encourage chaos, and thus became lazy and slacked off. The theme of this post is apathy. The mafia are apathetic because the atmosphere is so chaotic that they don't need to do much to stay under the radar. After all, why work hard when you can be lazy? L On January 15 2012 00:41 L wrote: So I decided to take a good read of the thread from the start in one burst because hey, I'm a day late. A few things stood out as odd: 1) There are a LOT of mayoral candidates. Many of them seem to have prepared their candidacy prior to the game. Candidacies prepared prior to the game don't give us any information (insofar as submitting candidature goes) because they are done in the absence of role or alignment information. The surplus of candidates as well as the pre-prepared quality of many indicates that candidacy itself is devalued in this game. 2) Of those 'immediate' candidacies, Foolishness's is the most peculiar on its face, I honestly don't understand why someone would prepare a post to push for someone in the absence of role information, but my best guess is that he wanted to run himself, then got masoned or masoned someone else. 3) Mattchew releases a pm between him and Foolishness that states straight up that Bill Murray will be easy to control. No one comments on this. 4) On page 39 its stated that roles who get elected cannot be roleblocked; All of the current candidates for mayor are crumbing or have claimed roles that don't benefit from this. This issue is brought up a grand total of ONCE in the 12 pages since then and not discussed any further. 5) There are a LOT of chaff posts in this thread. A lot of larger posts are similarly filled with repetitive content. 6) The most interesting of the semi-chaff posts are the cloaked kingmakers. Posts like "Oh, the race is already over, X or Z is going to win". Why are they interesting? Because the leading candidate currently has 10% of the popular vote and mafia's potential to swing votes is grossly disproportionate to the amount of votes cast thusfar. 7) No one seems particularly 'pressed' with respect to the vote totals, which indicates that everyone's roughly happy with the way things are or at least not hurried enough to make a play yet. Given how strong the election roles are, this means mafia has likely captured at least one of the frontrunner spots at this point in time. This also means that mafia is doubly happy to throw out cloaked kingmakers as they clutter the thread, remove an incentive for people to participate AND lead them to an election result that they're comfortable with. 8) A grand total of one post stands out in my memory regarding the timing of votes and stated that people should be throwing down their votes asap to prevent the election from getting hijacked by a mafia swing. No one picked up on it and there was a burst of posting to bury it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So, what does this tell me? Tells me two things: 1) People need to vote. Now. 2) I'm voting for me. L for Mayor. 3) The best defensive votes statistically are on players who currently aren't winning but posted pre-canned candidacies. The best offensive votes are on players who have crumbed a role that isn't mason. P.S. Rainbow text is fucking hard. In his campaign post, he gives a laundry list of 8 things that he finds "odd", but these points cast doubt and provide more questions than answers. L makes up the term "cloaked kingmakers", although there really is no reason to believe that the people saying that "X is going to win" are mafia. L is just making up a catchy phrase to avoid having to explain anything. In point 7 L suggests that mafia have one of the front running spots, but doesn't put any effort into figuring out who it is, and just casts doubt to make the voters fearful. How does he conclude his laundry list of 8 points? He tells people to vote for him. Now. Besides providing no content except doubt, the tone of this post is quite interesting. L's first post is large and basically says and screams "I am full of energy, care about the town, and am providing valuable insight", when in fact, he quickly falls off the radar, shows his apathy, and gives no such insight. The rest of his posts are incoherent and don't provide direction. His posts don't command attention, and even when he prods people, he doesn't do it in a way that draws attention. Even though he appears perky and full of energy, as a whole they are apathetic. L says that he would choose to lynch Mattchew based on a flimsy sentence (and by calling him a "cloaked kingmaker"). He also tosses his vote on VisceraEyes without much thought. L is apathetic and has done nothing for the town while attempting to hide that he is doing so. Jackal I have no idea why Foolishness thinks he's town. Jackal is not playing his usual gung ho strongly opinionated town style. His play is quite similar to his play in TL Mafia XLVIII as mafia. Jackal isn't actively involved in the game. He never pushes a strong opinion (highly uncharacteristic), and just sits back while making irrelevant comments on random posts. Clearly, he is reading the thread. Clearly, he doesn't care to contribute. And why should he? The thread is in chaos, so its easy to just get lazy as mafia. kingjames In this game, kingjames proposes that bodyguards be made public, posts a consideration that BC may be the mafia jack, and then disappears. On January 14 2012 09:14 kingjames01 wrote: Also, consider for the moment, that BC may be mafia Jack. If he uses his Mason power on Day 1 to establish his credibility and then is subsequently elected to office, we will not be able to find the mafia Jack. It is a risk, but I know that BC will take that risk. He is very much a medium-risk, high-reward player. EVERYONE! WHAT HAPPENS IF BLOODYC0BBLER IS MAFIA JACK? I consider this scenario involving BC to be within his bag of tricks, and I will not vote to elect him into office. A fear mongering post that asks what happens if BC is red, with no opinion or followup. Another case of apathy. Contrast this with TL Mafia XXXVIII where instantly gives strong opinions on some of the proposed policy plans (random lynching, zodiac lists), immediately jumps into trying to find mafia, posts some detailed analyses, and does a lot of poking and prodding. In this game, kingjames does not attempt to find mafia. He instead discusses outing bodyguards, and casts doubt on BC without providing any opinion. The key thing to note is that in contrast to his town play where he is outgoing and analytical, his posts in this game are very subdued, seem artificial and feel overly planned. Macpo Here we revisit Macpo. I won't restate my previous analysis. However, I think people are not seeing the subtle differences in how Macpo is different from some of the other newbies or lurkers. The key is overemphasis on inexperience to the point that he is begging to be ignored. This is a textbook case of mafia. But for all of you doubters, here is a new piece of information. Look at Macpo's 4th post here: On January 14 2012 20:02 Macpo wrote: It's getting clear that Bill Murray is the way to go. Mr Wiggles, a good town, but he just doesn't want to be on the stage too much, so I guess the mayor role doesn't suit him very well. BC: way too unclear and risky for me; he is trying too much stuff, going for a thousand contradictory stuff, taking back what he said and so on. Bill has shown a lot of presence, and has made reasonable analyses, plus he is not afraid. That's enough for me up to now, I think we won't have better than that. To those complaining about me being rational, it's getting obvious that they prefer random one line crap to argumentation. I'll answer back when they'll meet my standards. Also, I changed my mind on Cybercheese, as he opened my eyes on the the BC case. To bill: some people here have NOT posted yet at all!! I feel fine about lynching sandroba, as he acts quite scummy, but I suggest that if you are elected, you lynch someone who has not talked yet. statistics we'll be that it is mafia. and compare to his first post, where he overly emphasizes his newbiness. See the difference? Macpo doesn't apologize at all in this post, and spews a bunch of opinions. Previously, he stated that "I just feel that being confident in my claims on day 1 is kind of stupid, as there is almost no rational basis for being so." Huge contrast. Its as if its a different person posting. Its pretty obvious that Macpo is getting coaching from his mafia friends. Then his next post: On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote: I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are. Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind: - Refallen 2 empty posts. - Munk-E 1 empty post. - Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines. - d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines. - igabod 4 posts 4 lines. - rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position. - Maxella 2 posts. Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells. Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY. Besides the fact that Macpo doesn't follow his own advice and really doesn't "get into it and help town", notice the pleading tone. I bet its a different coach this time! LOLOLOLOL GGQ On January 15 2012 12:02 GGQ wrote: havent caught up, I'm at page 57, but I skipped ahead. don't vote in Protractinium. Seriously, don't. Macpo is pretty clearly a newb town imo For not having caught up yet, GGQ has a shockingly strong opinion that Macpo is newb town. What's even more interesting is that this read is his basis for urging people not to vote me in. Why does GGQ have such a strong attachment to Macpo? He never once discusses lynch targets or inquires about who the other mayoral candidates is going to lynch. But for some reason he really wants to save Macpo. Without even considering whether or not I am otherwise a good candidate for mayor. He doesn't attempt to persuade me not to lynch Macpo, he just flat out says that I shouldn't be voted in. In short, GGQ is apathetic both about who becomes mayor and who gets lynched. But for some reason he really cares that Macpo doesn't get lynched. GGQ is also lurking hard while providing no content. Contrast to Responsibility Mafia where he is active, expresses interest in finding a good target for the lynch and gives a few detalied analyses on GMarshal and Mr. Wiggles. Ciryandor In sharp contrast to his previous posts (and future posts, I might add), where he has a defiant tone, "LOL that's a good reason to get you voted in.", and "LOL says the guy whose first post is to criticize bad posts.", Ciryandor switches to a submissive tone in an attempt to gain sympathy as one who has been wrongly accused. His argument is that there are other players who fit the same criterion, and posts a list of half-hearted "reads" to attempt to appease. But it is all a ploy. Note how he never mentions who he wants lynched. He is way too apathetic and seems more concerned about saving himself (less antagonistic tone) rather than actually believing in any his reads, or any of anyone elses, for that matter. But here's the kicker: Right now I'm torn between Proact and Sandroba in voting, because at least they're concrete in promising ONE NAME to lynch instead of being wishy-washy in getting a list of targets up, and that I think they have plans for town after Day 1 that don't need to be publicized yet. He is torn between voting for me/sandroba, but then in his next post, states: Same thing here; I only read the blue post saying 9 minutes to deadline with 4 minutes to go, so I just chucked in a vote at Bill seeing that Proact is in the lead (as of the last votecount update I saw), and that I don't like BC to get sheriff because he and Proact are at odds with each other. Two things wrong here. First, he doesn't vote for me/sandroba. He also non-chalantly "chucks" a vote at Bill. Not a verb you'd associate with someone who "is torn between" two other candidates, huh? While he may say that he didn't want BC and me to both be in office, his vote is way too casual. Second, notice the sudden difference in tone between this post and the previous one. No more puppy eyes "I'm being unfairly fingered out despite there being many other people acting like me" talk. Ciryandor changes from calm to careless and aloof, and basically just throws his vote down without much forethought. Of course, when I end up losing the election, Ciryandor says nothing about the result. Only that On January 15 2012 12:37 Ciryandor wrote: Yes, Miller is townie that checks as scum. If thats not apathy, I don't know what is. evantrees I agree with Foolishness that evantrees is mafia. His first post is so incoherent it begs to be skipped, but this post in particular is bad: On January 15 2012 09:44 evantrees wrote: to quote VE out of context at the modkill + attempted day vig bit late but anyways. ~OpZ~ not sandroba otherwise correct, bc masoned sandroba OpZ masoned bc jitsu masoned VE mattchew masoned foolishness according to whats been said at least. Doubt I typed anything useful going through this mess but I will check. Posting a useless list without any opinion? Check. Even worse is that he doesn't even verify that the information is correct, and states that what he wrote is probably useless. This is apathy at its finest. Furthermore, evantrees is lurking hard core. We know he's reading the thread, as he posts a null comment on Palmar's flip before randomly requesting that repalcements are relfected in the OP. The argument that evantrees is just a bored townie doesn't hold here. Bored townies don't ask the mods to indicate replacements in the OP. evantrees is completely apathetic and pretends to contribute to the town when he in fact is not. Well those are my thoughts in the event that I am shot in the face. Start by lynching Macpo (he's too obviously mafia, and his flipping red will strengthen the cases on GGQ and Ciryandor). 6 reds should be enough given that its only day 1 and we can't kill them all right away anyway. Just make sure these don't get spammed away by some of the aggressive posters. Also please don't do something dumb like lynching someone who is really putting in the effort to figure stuff out. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 17 2012 05:37 Nisani201 wrote: Protactinium begins by running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. But there is no way that Protactinium actually had a case against Ciryandor this early. Especially since, at the time Protactinium wrote that, Ciryandor only had one post in the game. So from this we can deduce that Protact is either bad town, or scum. This is just flat out wrong. You dont need a lot of posts to tell that someone is mafia. Ciryandor was bullshitting about Wiggles having the best campaign. Thats it! Mafia trying to make something out of nothing right there. I don't need pages and pages of spam to prove someone is mafia. All it takes is a few posts to show they're making stuff up because they're not town. Strangely enough you think that my early accusation means I am bad or mafia. Lol. On the contrary, it just means I'm good. I didn't need followup questions. The rest of his posts revealed his colors without the need for questioning. As for why Macpo over Ciryandor, Macpo is just a worse poster. I can't kill 7 people at once. Only 1. On January 17 2012 06:02 p4NDemik wrote: Nisani your argument is actually pretty compelling. I'm also extremely suspicious of Protactinium now. Especially considering that Ciryandor actually was "torn" about voting for him after he came on so hard for his own lynch. Prot came on hard with a long accusation, to which Ciryandor posted no reply for 2 days. I don't understand why Prot wouldn't find it suspicious at all that someone who he so adamantly accused a day ago was now considering his corner without even speaking to his accusation. I feel like one thing that very consistently annoys town (especially someone who is trying to be high-profile and win an election) is when their questions go unanswered, and we have a clear cut case of it here. Even if your focus changes to another person who you think is more likely mafia you still don't let someone completely off the hook like that. I addressed that in my post that perhaps you missed since it was on the wrong account. Of course, I posted it only right before the daypost, but given that I was already under suspicion the day before, I figured I might as well just wait til right before the deadline to post to take advantage of the fact that my suspicion would hopefully get the mafia not to shoot me. GGQ is mafia, but Macpo is better today. In his latest post, most of it is focused on saving himself, while only the end is a "sidenote" (very weak case) on JayJay. Macpo isn't interested in scumhunting, he is just popping in to save himself while making it look like he's attempting to be productive. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On January 17 2012 06:39 Nisani201 wrote: Why would a scum use bullshit to support a townie campaign? To make it look like they're contributing and having an opinion when they're actually not. Note how Wiggles never actually stands a chance of winning. His support of Wiggles is not relevant in the grand scheme of things, but it still makes him look contributing. Its not untypical for mafia to appear to butt heads with each other in attempt to dissociate themselves. The thing is, if they are both mafia, Ciryandor knows how GGQ is going to respond, so that is one less unknown variable you have to worry about. Notice how GGQ never mentions Ciryandor. Why? Because, Ciryandor was never being serious about his accusation in the first place. Surprise! Again note the theme of laziness here. Mafia were too lazy to keep up the act. Lets stop discussing Sandroba/BC being mafia for now. There are bigger fish to fry (all the apathetic people). | ||
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