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Active: 9077 users

Fixing the Map Situation: Bring in Old BW Maps

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 04:19:36
July 29 2011 04:18 GMT
#1
With season 3 having just hit, there have been a lot of complaints about the maps. As a responsible citizen of TeamLiquid, I felt it was my duty to look for solutions to this problem. And where better to look that at a game, similar in many respects, that has had over a decade of play to shape the maps into something truly wonderful. With that in mind, I have found 5 BW maps that I feel would be the most appropriate ports to SC2.

#1: Crazy Critters

The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Neutral Critters everywhere.
- 6 player map
- Most expansions are islands, except other mains.
- Fairly small.


Why it would be good in sc2:
+ Show Spoiler +
- It is very hard to place buildings. Most units, if not all, that many people consider imbalanced come out of buildings. Less buildings = less imbaimba
- Some complain that sc2 is “too easy” compared to BW. Having to clear out Critters could raise the skill ceiling and widen the gap between pros and Joes.
- Many zerg players are often very sad about how hard it is to scout and pressure when there’s a wall. Not only do the critters make walling very difficult, the choke is quite large and it takes a lot of buildings to block.
- Would encourage exciting air play because there are no air critters and air units mysteriously don’t collide anyway. Air play would also help secure the island bases.


Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Can’t place rocks because they would interfere with the Critters.
- Sc2 critters are considerably easier to kill than BW Critters.
- Hellion might be too powerful at clearing Critters.
- WC3 players and their sick creep clearing skills might have an unfair advantage. Conversely, they might become too focused on killing the Critters, thinking it will make their units stronger.


#2: Crystallis

The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Many mineral patches all over the map, but without many minerals per patch.
- No easily reached gas, you have to clear yourself a path there.
- You can’t get access to your opponent without clearing enough patches.
- The map is very small (64x64)


Why it would be good in SC2:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Most units that people claim to be imbalanced are gas heavy, like Colossus, Banshees, and Infestors. By making gas just about impossible to get, it is much harder to get these units. This may make the game more balanced.
- People often complain about being cheesed. If you cant get gas or reach your opponent for 15 minutes, it will be much harder to cheese them.
- Many current sc2 maps are criticized for making it hard to take bases. This map, however, is essentially one giant base. You can make a Command Center, Nexus, or Hatchery basically anywhere you want.
- Depending on how many paths are cleared out, there can be many opportunities for counter-attacking and general aggression.


Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler +
- There’s not much room to place destructible rocks. I suppose some floating rocks could be put up to inhibit air movement.
- Could potentially be Terran favoured for the following reasons:
1) Command Centers fly so you don’t have to keep making new ones.
2) Marines don’t cost gas and I hear they’re pretty good.
3) Mules provide an advantage in path-carving.
4) After some gas is reached, you can drop SCVs or mules to clear out a small hole in the minerals. Then you could drop a tank in there and freely siege whatever the hell you want to.


#3: Demon’s Forest

The Map:+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Covered in trees.
- Trees block sight and inhibit movement.
- Backdoor expo with cliff over it.


Why it would be good in Sc2:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Some people have complained about Watch Towers possibly giving too much map awareness. The forest is essentially the opposite of a Watch Tower.
- Mules have historically been called imbalanced on occasion. The forest might force Terran to spend more energy on scans than he might otherwise want to.
- On current Sc2 maps, it can sometimes be hard to hold expansions. The backdoor expansion combined with the increased risk of applying early pressure through the forest might make the expansion more safe.


Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Colossus don’t care about the trees because they’re so tall and have telescopes.
- Baneling mines might be too powerful.
- Can’t put Watch Towers because it would defeat the whole purpose of the map.
- Getting surrounds is very hard. You have to surround an area of the map randomly and hope their army is there.


#4: Peaks of Baekdu

The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Actually I’m just joking, this map would be terrible in Sc2. I hope nobody ever does this one.

#5: Showdown

The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Obscenely long rush distances.
- Second gas base is very very far.
- Cliffs over all the expansions. Also the main.


Why it would be good in Sc2:
+ Show Spoiler +
- The walking distance from main to main is roughly two days. This allows for longer, more macro-based games.
- Since your second base will likely be gasless, zerg is encouraged to get more queens. This will help with the seemingly impossible task of creep spread.
- Although the long distances make direct attacks difficult, the cliffs encourage harassment and ensure the game is action packed.
- The many tight chokes, often overlooked by cliffs, provides a nice defender’s advantage.
- There are many locations on the map that look like they desperately want destructible rocks.


Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler +
- So big that Watch Towers might not be that useful.
- Planetary Fortresses might be too strong, especially on the gas bases in the middle.
- Possible Zerg imbalance for the following reasons:
1) Zerg units are really fast and are therefore the least affected by the size of the map.
2) There is really only one lane that you have to spread creep on. If you’re really gosu you can spread around both sides in the center but is isn’t necessary.
3) Infestors are (obviously) the scariest unit that could be dropped on a cliff.


There are a bunch more maps out there that could be moved over to Sc2 but I feel this will be sufficient for the time being. I have sent a copy of this over to Blizzard and am hoping to get a few of these put onto the ladder. At least two would be great, replacing Shakuras and Xel Naga Caverns.

+ Show Spoiler [Wtf?] +
Ok basically I just wanted to show that not even BW was perfectly set with regards to maps. This was especially true in its earlier days (like we’re in for Sc2 right now) when Showdown was totally a legitimate pro map. Demon’s Forest was a real pro map as well, in 2008 no less. Though to be fair it only lasted 8 games. In short: Shitty maps happen.


+ Show Spoiler [Sources] +
Images taken from TLPD or Liquipedia. Some of the “Notable Features” were taken from Liquipedia as well. <3 the Liquipedia people.
trikshun
Profile Joined October 2010
United States437 Posts
July 29 2011 04:20 GMT
#2
Peaks of Baekdu... That is basically crossfire
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
July 29 2011 04:20 GMT
#3
Crossfire is a direct port of peaks of beakdu.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
July 29 2011 04:21 GMT
#4
Yeah that was the joke. Sorry. >_>
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1845 Posts
July 29 2011 04:22 GMT
#5
On July 29 2011 13:21 Bibbit wrote:
Yeah that was the joke. Sorry. >_>


It's okay, I got it.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
July 29 2011 04:22 GMT
#6
op is sooo full of win
Giwoon
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)431 Posts
July 29 2011 04:23 GMT
#7
YES YES MOAR CRITTERS!
BUTTHURT?
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 04:24:03
July 29 2011 04:23 GMT
#8
Haha fuck I got trolled hard
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
Yergidy
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2107 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 04:25:28
July 29 2011 04:24 GMT
#9
On July 29 2011 13:20 RoieTRS wrote:
Crossfire is a direct port of peaks of beakdu.

Ya what they said... lol

Edit: OOhhh... Trolled rofl
One bright day in the middle of the night, Two dead boys got up to fight; Back to back they faced each other, Drew their swords and shot each other.
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
July 29 2011 04:24 GMT
#10
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!

The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
July 29 2011 04:25 GMT
#11
id like to see heartbreak ridge :D
Carush
Profile Joined June 2011
United States356 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 04:26:04
July 29 2011 04:25 GMT
#12
people will always complain about things
why?
because that's what people do, complain

anyways i dont think that bring back bw maps is a bad idea but why not bring back the more modern and balanced ones like destination, circuit breaker, and roadrunner

crazy critters? seriously?

edit: trolled :/
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
July 29 2011 04:25 GMT
#13
On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!

The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O


You mine less gas in Sc2 from one geysir than in Bw.
wat
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
July 29 2011 04:26 GMT
#14
On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!

The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O


You dont get as much gas per trip in sc2 so I'm not sure if thats true. Shamefully enough I don't know how many you get per trip in sc2. TT

Pretty sure its 8 in BW though.
Nimic
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway1360 Posts
July 29 2011 04:26 GMT
#15
Very good. Very good indeed.
SovietHammer
Profile Joined March 2011
United States166 Posts
July 29 2011 04:26 GMT
#16
Hmm, I thought troll treads weren't allowed on tl. Where's my report button?
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
July 29 2011 04:27 GMT
#17
I didnt mean to trick or "troll" anyone. :/

I put Crazy Critters first to try to make it clear I wasn't entirely serious.
MarthVader
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States63 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 04:30:53
July 29 2011 04:27 GMT
#18
I can see the troll face from here.
If not... I'm sorry... I disagree with almost everything you just said.
I'll hope its a troll.

edit: re-reading now. its a troll. thanks for the lulz
day[9] moderator and esports advocate. twitter: @MarthaVader
Kid-Fox
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada400 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 04:29:37
July 29 2011 04:27 GMT
#19
omfg, not enough destructible rocks D=<

Dustin Browder would not be impressed. Where are the alternate attack paths?

On July 29 2011 13:26 Bibbit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!

The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O


You dont get as much gas per trip in sc2 so I'm not sure if thats true. Shamefully enough I don't know how many you get per trip in sc2. TT

Pretty sure its 8 in BW though.


You get 4 gas per trip per geyser in sc2, so it's the same when both gases are taken. Difference is the extra 3 workers in sc2 for both gases
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
July 29 2011 04:28 GMT
#20
showdown would be the most legit zerg map ahahaha. i also couldn't stop laughing when i just saw "Peaks of Baekdu"

+1 to OP
:]
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