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With season 3 having just hit, there have been a lot of complaints about the maps. As a responsible citizen of TeamLiquid, I felt it was my duty to look for solutions to this problem. And where better to look that at a game, similar in many respects, that has had over a decade of play to shape the maps into something truly wonderful. With that in mind, I have found 5 BW maps that I feel would be the most appropriate ports to SC2.
#1: Crazy Critters
The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler + - Neutral Critters everywhere.
- 6 player map
- Most expansions are islands, except other mains.
- Fairly small.
Why it would be good in sc2:
+ Show Spoiler + - It is very hard to place buildings. Most units, if not all, that many people consider imbalanced come out of buildings. Less buildings = less imbaimba
- Some complain that sc2 is “too easy” compared to BW. Having to clear out Critters could raise the skill ceiling and widen the gap between pros and Joes.
- Many zerg players are often very sad about how hard it is to scout and pressure when there’s a wall. Not only do the critters make walling very difficult, the choke is quite large and it takes a lot of buildings to block.
- Would encourage exciting air play because there are no air critters and air units mysteriously don’t collide anyway. Air play would also help secure the island bases.
Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler + - Can’t place rocks because they would interfere with the Critters.
- Sc2 critters are considerably easier to kill than BW Critters.
- Hellion might be too powerful at clearing Critters.
- WC3 players and their sick creep clearing skills might have an unfair advantage. Conversely, they might become too focused on killing the Critters, thinking it will make their units stronger.
#2: Crystallis
The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler + - Many mineral patches all over the map, but without many minerals per patch.
- No easily reached gas, you have to clear yourself a path there.
- You can’t get access to your opponent without clearing enough patches.
- The map is very small (64x64)
Why it would be good in SC2:
+ Show Spoiler + - Most units that people claim to be imbalanced are gas heavy, like Colossus, Banshees, and Infestors. By making gas just about impossible to get, it is much harder to get these units. This may make the game more balanced.
- People often complain about being cheesed. If you cant get gas or reach your opponent for 15 minutes, it will be much harder to cheese them.
- Many current sc2 maps are criticized for making it hard to take bases. This map, however, is essentially one giant base. You can make a Command Center, Nexus, or Hatchery basically anywhere you want.
- Depending on how many paths are cleared out, there can be many opportunities for counter-attacking and general aggression.
Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler + - There’s not much room to place destructible rocks. I suppose some floating rocks could be put up to inhibit air movement.
- Could potentially be Terran favoured for the following reasons:
1) Command Centers fly so you don’t have to keep making new ones.
2) Marines don’t cost gas and I hear they’re pretty good.
3) Mules provide an advantage in path-carving.
4) After some gas is reached, you can drop SCVs or mules to clear out a small hole in the minerals. Then you could drop a tank in there and freely siege whatever the hell you want to.
#3: Demon’s Forest
The Map:+ Show Spoiler +
Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler + - Covered in trees.
- Trees block sight and inhibit movement.
- Backdoor expo with cliff over it.
Why it would be good in Sc2:
+ Show Spoiler + - Some people have complained about Watch Towers possibly giving too much map awareness. The forest is essentially the opposite of a Watch Tower.
- Mules have historically been called imbalanced on occasion. The forest might force Terran to spend more energy on scans than he might otherwise want to.
- On current Sc2 maps, it can sometimes be hard to hold expansions. The backdoor expansion combined with the increased risk of applying early pressure through the forest might make the expansion more safe.
Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler + - Colossus don’t care about the trees because they’re so tall and have telescopes.
- Baneling mines might be too powerful.
- Can’t put Watch Towers because it would defeat the whole purpose of the map.
- Getting surrounds is very hard. You have to surround an area of the map randomly and hope their army is there.
#4: Peaks of Baekdu
The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
Actually I’m just joking, this map would be terrible in Sc2. I hope nobody ever does this one.
#5: Showdown
The Map:
+ Show Spoiler +
Notable Features:
+ Show Spoiler + - Obscenely long rush distances.
- Second gas base is very very far.
- Cliffs over all the expansions. Also the main.
Why it would be good in Sc2:
+ Show Spoiler + - The walking distance from main to main is roughly two days. This allows for longer, more macro-based games.
- Since your second base will likely be gasless, zerg is encouraged to get more queens. This will help with the seemingly impossible task of creep spread.
- Although the long distances make direct attacks difficult, the cliffs encourage harassment and ensure the game is action packed.
- The many tight chokes, often overlooked by cliffs, provides a nice defender’s advantage.
- There are many locations on the map that look like they desperately want destructible rocks.
Possible Issues:
+ Show Spoiler + - So big that Watch Towers might not be that useful.
- Planetary Fortresses might be too strong, especially on the gas bases in the middle.
- Possible Zerg imbalance for the following reasons:
1) Zerg units are really fast and are therefore the least affected by the size of the map.
2) There is really only one lane that you have to spread creep on. If you’re really gosu you can spread around both sides in the center but is isn’t necessary.
3) Infestors are (obviously) the scariest unit that could be dropped on a cliff.
There are a bunch more maps out there that could be moved over to Sc2 but I feel this will be sufficient for the time being. I have sent a copy of this over to Blizzard and am hoping to get a few of these put onto the ladder. At least two would be great, replacing Shakuras and Xel Naga Caverns.
+ Show Spoiler [Wtf?] + Ok basically I just wanted to show that not even BW was perfectly set with regards to maps. This was especially true in its earlier days (like we’re in for Sc2 right now) when Showdown was totally a legitimate pro map. Demon’s Forest was a real pro map as well, in 2008 no less. Though to be fair it only lasted 8 games. In short: Shitty maps happen.
+ Show Spoiler [Sources] + Images taken from TLPD or Liquipedia. Some of the “Notable Features” were taken from Liquipedia as well. <3 the Liquipedia people.
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Peaks of Baekdu... That is basically crossfire
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Crossfire is a direct port of peaks of beakdu.
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Yeah that was the joke. Sorry. >_>
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On July 29 2011 13:21 Bibbit wrote:
Yeah that was the joke. Sorry. >_>
It's okay, I got it. 
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Haha fuck I got trolled hard
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On July 29 2011 13:20 RoieTRS wrote:
Crossfire is a direct port of peaks of beakdu.
Ya what they said... lol
Edit: OOhhh... Trolled rofl
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:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!
The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O
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id like to see heartbreak ridge :D
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people will always complain about things
why?
because that's what people do, complain
anyways i dont think that bring back bw maps is a bad idea but why not bring back the more modern and balanced ones like destination, circuit breaker, and roadrunner
crazy critters? seriously?
edit: trolled :/
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On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!
The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O
You mine less gas in Sc2 from one geysir than in Bw.
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On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!
The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O
You dont get as much gas per trip in sc2 so I'm not sure if thats true. Shamefully enough I don't know how many you get per trip in sc2. TT
Pretty sure its 8 in BW though.
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Very good. Very good indeed.
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Hmm, I thought troll treads weren't allowed on tl. Where's my report button?
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I didnt mean to trick or "troll" anyone. :/
I put Crazy Critters first to try to make it clear I wasn't entirely serious. 
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I can see the troll face from here.
If not... I'm sorry... I disagree with almost everything you just said.
I'll hope its a troll.
edit: re-reading now. its a troll. thanks for the lulz
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omfg, not enough destructible rocks D=<
Dustin Browder would not be impressed. Where are the alternate attack paths?
On July 29 2011 13:26 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!
The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O You dont get as much gas per trip in sc2 so I'm not sure if thats true. Shamefully enough I don't know how many you get per trip in sc2. TT Pretty sure its 8 in BW though.
You get 4 gas per trip per geyser in sc2, so it's the same when both gases are taken. Difference is the extra 3 workers in sc2 for both gases
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showdown would be the most legit zerg map ahahaha. i also couldn't stop laughing when i just saw "Peaks of Baekdu"
+1 to OP
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This really seems like a troll thread because these maps are stupid and will never be placed on the ladder
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Yea I feel trolled but its okay.
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Sigh at the ppl taking this seriously lmao... Very funny
+1
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LMFAO
Can't help but agree with Peaks of Baekdu... crossfire is a dam bad map...
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I think you should port Desert Oasis to BW and see how it plays out.
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I LOL'd. And LOL'd harder at the people who didn't get #4.
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When I opened this thread I was like "UAAAUUURURURRRGH CHEWBACCA NOISES ANOTHER THREAD SAYING BW MAPS MADE AFTER 10 YEARS OF RESEARCH ARE BETTER THAN 1 YEAR OLD SC2 MAPS AND SHOULD BE USED BECAUSE THE GAMES ARE CLEARLY THE SAME IN EVERY WAY AND NEW THINGS ARE BAD RITE"
But I was pleasantly surprised at the dry wit present from Bibbit. Good show sir. I approve.
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Being trolled with BW stuff is a great feeling :S
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wow i laughed hard with this amazing job haha
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i actually thought it was serious UNTIL i saw Peaks of Baekdu* then I had a really good laugh
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Successful troll is successful.
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OP is winning. Glad to see some viewpoint other than "omgwtfxtheskyisfalling"-regarding the map pool
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Nice thread
9/10
i didnt like your joke about that terrible map
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Lol at first I thought it was serious, saw the mineral map, then thought it was a joke, then saw the Crossfire one, then I was like, oh maybe not. Then you were like it would suck haha, so i'm like lol xD
Anyways, some of the ideas these maps are based around are actually pretty interesting. Not balanced of course, but if we can use concepts like these more in maps then it can result in such fun strategies.
Btw who made these maps? Blizz or just random?
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I LOLed hard. And LOLed at people who missed the Crossfire reference
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ATM my bet I'm making with myself is which new ladder map that everybody says is terrible now is going to be an amazing tournament map in a few months.
Remember how much people raged at Shakuras Plateau for being a terrible map the first week it came out?
This thread is wonderful, it does a good job of showing how silly people are.
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On July 29 2011 13:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Lol at first I thought it was serious, saw the mineral map, then thought it was a joke, then saw the Crossfire one, then I was like, oh maybe not. Then you were like it would suck haha, so i'm like lol xD
Anyways, some of the ideas these maps are based around are actually pretty interesting. Not balanced of course, but if we can use concepts like these more in maps then it can result in such fun strategies.
Btw who made these maps? Blizz or just random?
Blizz made some. Crysallis and the Critters one for sure and maybe Showdown. But most legitimate maps (like Peaks) were made by pro korean mappers.
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Crazy Critters truly would be the greatest possible BW to SC2 map port (no troll really) however IIRC critters don't actually block building placement in SC2 lol. Seriously would be the most fun map ever to have custom 1v1's or massive FFAs on lmao
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Crystallis would be interesting especially on how the MULE vs Larva Inject vs Chronoboost would turn out.
Oh and nice post 
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On July 29 2011 13:36 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 13:33 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Lol at first I thought it was serious, saw the mineral map, then thought it was a joke, then saw the Crossfire one, then I was like, oh maybe not. Then you were like it would suck haha, so i'm like lol xD
Anyways, some of the ideas these maps are based around are actually pretty interesting. Not balanced of course, but if we can use concepts like these more in maps then it can result in such fun strategies.
Btw who made these maps? Blizz or just random? Blizz made some. Crysallis and the Critters one for sure and maybe Showdown. But most legitimate maps (like Peaks) were made by pro korean mappers.
Thanks ^_^
It seems he has recently edited his post.
Not a surprise to see Demon's Forest actually used, like I said before the maps aren't too horrible haha
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Holy shit I remember Crazy Critters
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10387 Posts
Demon's Forest was taken out due to Lurkers bugging out in the center forest, along with Siege tanks. It wasn't really a "terrible" map per se, just the concept didn't work so well with the game.
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On July 29 2011 13:25 JiYan wrote:
id like to see heartbreak ridge :D
I too would like to see this map.
Crystallis... PFs. o.o
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Omg... haha I remember playing ladder on showdown and thinking it was fun..... God I was bad..
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DMZ is clearly the best map choice for SC2, that or Battle Royale.
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haha good one OP i lol'd at crystallis
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I for one DEMAND MORE CRAZY CRITTERS RIGHT NAO!!!!!!!
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Excellent job OP. My mirth is barely contained! xD
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Peaks of Baekdo!!
That was one of my favorite ladder maps ever...I feel like there are some issues with unit sizes in sc2 that would make it hard to balance with the small pathways though the middle.
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Ohhhh, if this were a blog I would certainly give it 5/5. LoL. Well done :D
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rofl, best thread in awhile
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That's actually hilarious. BRING THEM - BLIZZARD!
I hate the new ladder maps. At least the two light colored ones which are basically impossible to play normal/macro games on with a reasonably timed 3rd base.
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I was unclear on whether this was a joke until I saw a map of almost all mineral patches and then I had a good laugh as I read every word. Awesome post. 6/5.
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At first I was like "oh man... here we go again..." Then I saw what the first map was, and spent the next 10 minutes laughing as I was reading.
Hilarious thread, thanks for making my day ! :D
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Oh god Crazy Critters >_>
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As I have mentioned a few times already, there should be a map making tournament. I laid out the format a few times already, but here it goes again, with a few refinements:
- recurring complete online tournament over 2 weeks, community driven (only tl and reddit have this kind of community atm I think)
- should probably on NA, since that is only server all regions can play on
- Map makers register and upload their maps on the site and NA server, with descriptions etc.
- Only maps not chosen for any major tournament yet are allowed.
- Players apply, 8 are chosen, 2 of each race
- first 3 days is players voting on registered maps with a voting point pool
- Top 3 voted maps are chosen for tournament, getting 1st getting $100, 2nd getting $75 33rd getting $50
- players play round robin bo3s with the 3 maps in the next 10 days at their own leisure, each win getting them $10 or something like that
- players uploading replays, and if they stream, links of the videos, any commentator can make casts as long as they provide links too
- Last two days is community voting on the games, bets game gets $100 for both players and map maker
- top maps might be adopted for other tournaments, if there is a partnership with a big tournament organizer
Each player has 21 games, overall it's 84 games.
With the above mentioned price distribution the price pool needed would be $1365, and a plyer who wins all his games and gets the bets game bonus can get $310. Or is you got a lot of money, make everything x10 and you are still well below the $5000 blizzard restriction.
The one best suited to pull this off is TL, because they can even opt to use those maps in TL opens or TSLs, and also have the community and website staff to hold such a tournament.
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I feel like I could become a pretty good troll if I wanted to. I tried to make it as clear as I could that this was a joke and the first page is still full of troll accusations.
I'm thinking of paying for lessons from Hot_Bid. Anybody have any experience with him?
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Dunno why this one wasn't in the list?
![[image loading]](http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/FFC-Ifrit/DesertOutpost-5.jpg)
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On July 29 2011 13:18 Bibbit wrote:With season 3 having just hit, there have been a lot of complaints about the maps. As a responsible citizen of TeamLiquid, I felt it was my duty to look for solutions to this problem. And where better to look that at a game, similar in many respects, that has had over a decade of play to shape the maps into something truly wonderful. With that in mind, I have found 5 BW maps that I feel would be the most appropriate ports to SC2. #1: Crazy Critters The Map: + Show Spoiler +Notable Features:+ Show Spoiler + - Neutral Critters everywhere.
- 6 player map
- Most expansions are islands, except other mains.
- Fairly small. - It is very hard to place buildings. Most units, if not all, that many people consider imbalanced come out of buildings. Less buildings = less imbaimba
- Some complain that sc2 is “too easy” compared to BW. Having to clear out Critters could raise the skill ceiling and widen the gap between pros and Joes.
- Many zerg players are often very sad about how hard it is to scout and pressure when there’s a wall. Not only do the critters make walling very difficult, the choke is quite large and it takes a lot of buildings to block.
- Would encourage exciting air play because there are no air critters and air units mysteriously don’t collide anyway. Air play would also help secure the island bases. - Can’t place rocks because they would interfere with the Critters.
- Sc2 critters are considerably easier to kill than BW Critters.
- Hellion might be too powerful at clearing Critters.
- WC3 players and their sick creep clearing skills might have an unfair advantage. Conversely, they might become too focused on killing the Critters, thinking it will make their units stronger. Notable Features: + Show Spoiler + - Many mineral patches all over the map, but without many minerals per patch.
- No easily reached gas, you have to clear yourself a path there.
- You can’t get access to your opponent without clearing enough patches.
- The map is very small (64x64) - Most units that people claim to be imbalanced are gas heavy, like Colossus, Banshees, and Infestors. By making gas just about impossible to get, it is much harder to get these units. This may make the game more balanced.
- People often complain about being cheesed. If you cant get gas or reach your opponent for 15 minutes, it will be much harder to cheese them.
- Many current sc2 maps are criticized for making it hard to take bases. This map, however, is essentially one giant base. You can make a Command Center, Nexus, or Hatchery basically anywhere you want.
- Depending on how many paths are cleared out, there can be many opportunities for counter-attacking and general aggression. - There’s not much room to place destructible rocks. I suppose some floating rocks could be put up to inhibit air movement.
- Could potentially be Terran favoured for the following reasons:
1) Command Centers fly so you don’t have to keep making new ones.
2) Marines don’t cost gas and I hear they’re pretty good.
3) Mules provide an advantage in path-carving.
4) After some gas is reached, you can drop SCVs or mules to clear out a small hole in the minerals. Then you could drop a tank in there and freely siege whatever the hell you want to. - Covered in trees.
- Trees block sight and inhibit movement.
- Backdoor expo with cliff over it. - Some people have complained about Watch Towers possibly giving too much map awareness. The forest is essentially the opposite of a Watch Tower.
- Mules have historically been called imbalanced on occasion. The forest might force Terran to spend more energy on scans than he might otherwise want to.
- On current Sc2 maps, it can sometimes be hard to hold expansions. The backdoor expansion combined with the increased risk of applying early pressure through the forest might make the expansion more safe. - Colossus don’t care about the trees because they’re so tall and have telescopes.
- Baneling mines might be too powerful.
- Can’t put Watch Towers because it would defeat the whole purpose of the map.
- Getting surrounds is very hard. You have to surround an area of the map randomly and hope their army is there. Actually I’m just joking, this map would be terrible in Sc2. I hope nobody ever does this one. #5: Showdown The Map:+ Show Spoiler +Notable Features: + Show Spoiler + - Obscenely long rush distances.
- Second gas base is very very far.
- Cliffs over all the expansions. Also the main. - The walking distance from main to main is roughly two days. This allows for longer, more macro-based games.
- Since your second base will likely be gasless, zerg is encouraged to get more queens. This will help with the seemingly impossible task of creep spread.
- Although the long distances make direct attacks difficult, the cliffs encourage harassment and ensure the game is action packed.
- The many tight chokes, often overlooked by cliffs, provides a nice defender’s advantage.
- There are many locations on the map that look like they desperately want destructible rocks. - So big that Watch Towers might not be that useful.
- Planetary Fortresses might be too strong, especially on the gas bases in the middle.
- Possible Zerg imbalance for the following reasons:
1) Zerg units are really fast and are therefore the least affected by the size of the map.
2) There is really only one lane that you have to spread creep on. If you’re really gosu you can spread around both sides in the center but is isn’t necessary.
3) Infestors are (obviously) the scariest unit that could be dropped on a cliff. There are a bunch more maps out there that could be moved over to Sc2 but I feel this will be sufficient for the time being. I have sent a copy of this over to Blizzard and am hoping to get a few of these put onto the ladder. At least two would be great, replacing Shakuras and Xel Naga Caverns. + Show Spoiler [Wtf?] + Ok basically I just wanted to show that not even BW was perfectly set with regards to maps. This was especially true in its earlier days (like we’re in for Sc2 right now) when Showdown was totally a legitimate pro map. Demon’s Forest was a real pro map as well, in 2008 no less. Though to be fair it only lasted 8 games. In short: Shitty maps happen. Images taken from TLPD or Liquipedia. Some of the “Notable Features” were taken from Liquipedia as well. <3 the Liquipedia people.
well these maps are blizzard maps... they're pretty equal in quality as Searing Crater imo.
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This is the quality of OP that everything else should be compared to!
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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All of these maps are better than Tears of the Moon.
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TT got trolled. I thought this was a thread with real suggestions about which BW maps we should port for SC2 (right after iCCup showed their excellent ports of Othello and Katrina).. then I saw the first image... 
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One of the best threads I've read around here. Loved the Peaks of Baekdu bit.
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I used to love the critters. Awesome.
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these would actually be really cool custom maps
Edit: fun* really "fun" custom maps
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awesome write up, we need Crazy Critters in sc2!
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This is the smartest OP I've read for awhile.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Hahaha, that was brilliant.
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Need that critter map for sure
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There’s not much room to place destructible rocks. I suppose some floating rocks could be put up to inhibit air movement.
I heartily approve of this proposed "floating rock" technology.
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Lol i got trolled :D I was believing in all of this, untill i read the comments
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this is hilarious, the iccup map team should sign you up
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Quality, quality posting.
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On July 29 2011 20:34 Mr Mauve wrote:Show nested quote +There’s not much room to place destructible rocks. I suppose some floating rocks could be put up to inhibit air movement. I heartily approve of this proposed "floating rock" technology.
Don't give ideas to Blizzard.
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with blizzard running the show, sc2 maps such full of shit
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Excellent OP! I just got trolled all along until the spoiler!
And I totally missed the Baedu/Crossfire reference, but thanks for showing it!
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On July 29 2011 14:21 imbecile wrote:As I have mentioned a few times already, there should be a map making tournament. I laid out the format a few times already, but here it goes again, with a few refinements: - recurring complete online tournament over 2 weeks, community driven (only tl and reddit have this kind of community atm I think)
- should probably on NA, since that is only server all regions can play on
- Map makers register and upload their maps on the site and NA server, with descriptions etc.
- Only maps not chosen for any major tournament yet are allowed.
- Players apply, 8 are chosen, 2 of each race
- first 3 days is players voting on registered maps with a voting point pool
- Top 3 voted maps are chosen for tournament, getting 1st getting $100, 2nd getting $75 33rd getting $50
- players play round robin bo3s with the 3 maps in the next 10 days at their own leisure, each win getting them $10 or something like that
- players uploading replays, and if they stream, links of the videos, any commentator can make casts as long as they provide links too
- Last two days is community voting on the games, bets game gets $100 for both players and map maker
- top maps might be adopted for other tournaments, if there is a partnership with a big tournament organizer
Each player has 21 games, overall it's 84 games. With the above mentioned price distribution the price pool needed would be $1365, and a plyer who wins all his games and gets the bets game bonus can get $310. Or is you got a lot of money, make everything x10 and you are still well below the $5000 blizzard restriction. The one best suited to pull this off is TL, because they can even opt to use those maps in TL opens or TSLs, and also have the community and website staff to hold such a tournament.
You mean like Map of the Month???
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lol Quality Thread. Nice read =]
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After seeing what an amazing map peaks of beakdu was we can only hope they port over crazy critters with some flying rocks.
In all seriousness, the problem isnt that there aren't good maps, the problem is that blizzard is being so damn stubborn chasing buzzwords like "stream lining" and "making it easier for the casuals" to support maps like slag pits which should never have been put in the map pool.
If anything these awful maps should serve as a warning as to what is a hood idea and what isn't.
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On July 29 2011 13:28 DashedHopes wrote:
This really seems like a troll thread because these maps are stupid and will never be placed on the ladder
Genius. :')
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Well played sir, well played.
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I was just watching Hydra vs Stork on Pathfinder.
Talk about a retarded map.
Just shows how a delicate thing map choice is for tournaments when even OSL in 2011 has such a map.
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"- There are many locations on the map that look like they desperately want destructible rocks. "
OP total win
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LMAO @ Crystallis, made me laugh ^^ thanks OP <3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Love Crazy Critters!
Blizzard should implement a system ASAP in which community maps can be voted on or in some other way selected for the ladder, with blizzard oversight if necessary. Makes sense for them too... they can spend less work making maps and researching (if they do at all) map balance
Blizzard could then concentrate on making fun/creative maps (ie, not worry about balance too much) like crazy critters, the island maps that tons of newbies want, and unsymmetrical maps.
But im sure most of the maps chosen for the pool have to be chosen for all skill levels and blizzard wants control of that.
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You know, when I read this I assumed it was a friendly jab making fun of the Blizzard map making team.
Then I was disappointed to find that it was intended to be a soapbox for, "Guys! Give them time!" (Unless, of course, I've horribly misread something -- if so, Hahah! Brilliant!)
I don't know where you've been, but other map makers have been shelling out some quite "nice maps" by today's under-developed standard. This is in stark contrast to the content Blizzard gives us, the maps met with a unanimous groan.
Blizzard really, REALLY needs to get their act together when it comes to map making if they intend to subject us to their work for the rest of SC2's lifespan.
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I'm fairly sure that you'd hear Zerg players crying that there's high ground within 13 range of your main
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Perhaps you made some edits since then that made it more clear, but the number of people on the first couple of pages that didn't realize it was a troll as soon as they saw map #1 is disturbing...
I got a kick out of this! Nice job!
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You sir, are a true visionary.
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Lol. Awesome post. But I am disheartened by the number of people that couldn't see what you were getting at. I'm just going to tell myself they only read a few words before posting or that they are counter-trolling in order to not feel too bad for the fools.
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On July 29 2011 13:30 youngminii wrote:
I think you should port Desert Oasis to BW and see how it plays out.
They already did scrap station and look at how that turned out -_-
(dreamliner)
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I always liked Showdown.
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If any map should be brought back definitely should be Luna and Tau Cross.
Luna was for awhile the "New LT" and was played forever definitely a balanced map. Tau Cross was just a favorite because it was in WCG and kept being in WCG.
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Oh my god, I got trolled so hard. Well played sir.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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United States22883 Posts
On July 29 2011 22:50 Ryhn wrote:
You know, when I read this I assumed it was a friendly jab making fun of the Blizzard map making team.
Then I was disappointed to find that it was intended to be a soapbox for, "Guys! Give them time!" (Unless, of course, I've horribly misread something -- if so, Hahah! Brilliant!)
I don't think it's a soapbox for anything, it was just one line about Demon's Forrest after a joke.
Also, most of those maps WERE made by Blizzard. I think Bibbit knows that.
Crazy Critters
Creator: Blizzard Entertainment
Crystallis
Creator: Blizzard
Showdown
Creator: Blizzard Entertainment
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What you dont understand is that before bw there was nothing. Before sc2 there was bw. If blizzard is so incompetent in making good maps, they cannot blame inexperience.
There is no excuse for their horrible maps.
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Hahah Jesus christ, I wasn't sure if you were joking or not after the first map, but after crystallis I cracked up. Also yes, I too feel that the collosus have telescope eyes. :p
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At first i basically thought you were ignorant and stupid but when it came to the man with all the minerals i cracked up. Hillarious indeed, well played.
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On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!
The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O
In BW, you only needed one gas, as each peon returned with double the gas.
I would really love to see some true island hop maps in the pool.
Oh, and BGH Extra Money +++
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Can't believe so many people missed the jokes! It was obvious enough lol.
Anyway, you proved your point, shitty maps do happen. However, I think people get really worked up over this over the fact that Blizzard will not budge on their position to makes all of the maps themselves, even though there are many community members working hard and putting a lot of effort and dedication into making some really awesome maps. Basically they're "here Blizzard, you can use my awesome map to make your game better and I ask for nothing in return" and they still refuse! I think that's the main reason people get upset (aside from blaming the game for their own losses ), and I do think that is a somewhat valid reason.
Either way, really funny post =) it did prove your point. Sometimes life gives you Metalopolis, and sometimes you get Searing Crater... that's just how things go .
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LOL,
The OP was won not only TL.net, but also internets in general. Fantastic post!
I am also shocked at how many people didn't get the jokes. Shame on you!
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Sin Gaema Gowon anybody?
Was always my favorite map...just because of the bad ass name
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OP Good sir i give thee +1 internetz.
Made me laugh once i realised what maps you were suggesting.
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Calgary25980 Posts
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haha thread was full of win and laughs, nice op ^^
this section got me the most:
Possible Issues:
- Hide Spoiler -
- Can’t place rocks because they would interfere with the Critters.
- Sc2 critters are considerably easier to kill than BW Critters.
- Hellion might be too powerful at clearing Critters.
- WC3 players and their sick creep clearing skills might have an unfair advantage. Conversely, they might become too focused on killing the Critters, thinking it will make their units stronger.
especially the war3 reference
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this was really good.
Bibbit, you seem to have a lot of free time and i'm glad!
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You had me SIRLing at Crazy Critters. I totally played that map, so nostalgic.
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United States17042 Posts
^^ I remember playing a lot of these maps in bw. Super fun
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It's nice when a troll puts this much effort forth. Thank you OP
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On July 30 2011 02:06 Fu[G]u wrote:
Sin Gaema Gowon anybody?
Was always my favorite map...just because of the bad ass name Best. Map. Ever! I'd always try to convince my nub friends to play this map, but I had a hard enough time convincing them to play Lost Temple..
My proudest BW moment was owning two of my friends, 1v2 on that map. Hard contain + nuke push to break their tank lines, using ghosts to lockdown their BC's and killing them with like 3 wraiths XD
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hahah well played good sir.
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Hahaha perfect :D This made me smile
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Ok basically I just wanted to show that not even BW was perfectly set with regards to maps. This was especially true in its earlier days (like we’re in for Sc2 right now) when Showdown was totally a legitimate pro map. Demon’s Forest was a real pro map as well, in 2008 no less. Though to be fair it only lasted 8 games. In short: Shitty maps happen.
Thing is, there were a few lame maps like that over the 10+ years of BW history, and now in SC2, where you'd think devs have all the experiences from BW, there are only a few GOOD maps in the cesspool of mediocre or even just plain terrible ones.
That said, nice write up =)
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So many suggestions for maps but (unless I've missed it) nobody said Plasma?!
Anyways I was thinking of doing another one but then it wouldnt really have a point the second time. But I guess then I could make it in blogs, the forum where things dont need to have an actual point. :D
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what about dmz?
should be really balanced if your units cant attack
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On July 29 2011 13:18 Bibbit wrote: #4: Peaks of Baekdu The Map: + Show Spoiler +Actually I’m just joking, this map would be terrible in Sc2. I hope nobody ever does this one.
This is high level trolling, big props. <3
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Satire: humor at its best.
I loved the mineral map (FASTEST MAP EVER? :O)
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Impressive troll, i actually didnt realize until Crystallis ahaha
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There is no reason why a BW map would make a good SC2 map, different units mean that what was once balanced might now be completely lopsided. Maps would have to be tested and adjusted where needed.
All I want is for blizz to stop putting 1 XN Tower right in the center of the map, it ruins TvT. Whomever controls it basically can't be moved, you don't even need vikings because the moment your opponent gets in range with their tanks, boom dead. Its stupid, the GSL realised this on XN Fortress which is why the tower blows up after 5 mins. It basically forces you to go around and base trade
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Honestly I would probably quit if those maps became part of the ladder pool, especially the first two. I can't see how they would bring balance.
edit: Trolled? lol
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I was like 'hmm this could be interesting' until I saw Demon's Forest. Maybe they could throw in Battle Royal for the kicks :DD
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The amount of people that responded to this seriously really reveal what a teeming cesspit of stupid the TL forums have become.
@OP: Surprisingly good topic, and funny to boot. Good work.
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LOL, epic troll post. I love the quality of the writeup to really push the joke home. :D
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You should change your name to baller? or maybe get baller in on this thread somehow haha
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Don't take it personally, but a lot of people here either suck at detecting sarcasm in epic proportions, or are the biggest inception-like trolls in a troll I've seen in a while...
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On July 29 2011 13:27 Kid-Fox wrote:omfg, not enough destructible rocks D=< Dustin Browder would not be impressed. Where are the alternate attack paths? Show nested quote +On July 29 2011 13:26 Bibbit wrote:On July 29 2011 13:24 LanTAs wrote:
:D Peaks is a good map! its day 9 approved!
The thing is that SC2 maps all have two gasses and not just one so that you can get tech faster than BW >:O You dont get as much gas per trip in sc2 so I'm not sure if thats true. Shamefully enough I don't know how many you get per trip in sc2. TT Pretty sure its 8 in BW though. You get 4 gas per trip per geyser in sc2, so it's the same when both gases are taken. Difference is the extra 3 workers in sc2 for both gases
WHERE ARE THE DESTRUCTIBLE ROCKS!!!!
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It took me awhile to realize the OP is trolling. -_-
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how could ppl take this serious? It's great and not at all an attempt at trolling.
Y are ppl so easy with calling something trolling nowadays?
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This thread needs to get to 1337 posts then closed by Hot_Bid
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I'm gonna have to brush up on the definition of "troll." >_>
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This would be so stupid, not only are they old which is not what blizzard wants, they put in new maps to change the map pool not to bring back old maps. But also the game plays so much differently, they aren't even close to the same thing.
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On July 30 2011 06:14 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote:
This would be so stupid, not only are they old which is not what blizzard wants, they put in new maps to change the map pool not to bring back old maps. But also the game plays so much differently, they aren't even close to the same thing.
You missed the point of this thread
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WC3 players and their sick creep clearing skills might have an unfair advantage. Conversely, they might become too focused on killing the Critters, thinking it will make their units stronger.
LMFAO. I am so glad this thread was not what I expected, 10/10 this best be featured.
- Colossus don’t care about the trees because they’re so tall and have telescopes.
this thread is like the funniest shit ever good god
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Blizzard's map debate
What should we do with the new maps?
Destructible rocks.
Don't we have enough rocks?
No add them everywhere.
Excellent idea Dustin, have a promotion
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HAHAHAHAAHHAHA gave me a good laugh A nice nostalgic trip as well.
Oh my goodness I remember Demon's Forest, such a cool concept but it was way to buggy unfortunately (e.g. vultures got stuck when laying a spidermine).
Tbh I wonder how Battle Royal would actually work out in sc2 it might be what the map makers intended for it in BW xD
This is the DMZ that others have mentioned if you're curious. Who needs destructible rocks to slow down enemies when disruption webs stop anyone from attacking?
The team play games on this map devolved into SCV rushes btw
+ Show Spoiler +
This one too! (It actually was pretty good, for 2v2 anyways)
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 29 2011 13:25 JiYan wrote:
id like to see heartbreak ridge :D
Someone made that already, saw it in some tournament. Forget what its called though
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On July 30 2011 06:41 crazie-penguin wrote:HAHAHAHAAHHAHA gave me a good laugh A nice nostalgic trip as well. Oh my goodness I remember Demon's Forest, such a cool concept but it was way to buggy unfortunately (e.g. vultures got stuck when laying a spidermine). Tbh I wonder how Battle Royal would actually work out in sc2 it might be what the map makers intended for it in BW xD This is the DMZ that others have mentioned if you're curious. Who needs destructible rocks to slow down enemies when disruption webs stop anyone from attacking? The team play games on this map devolved into SCV rushes btw + Show Spoiler +This one too! (It actually was pretty good, for 2v2 anyways) + Show Spoiler +
Omg that second map. I played a Bo3 with a friend lately after not having played for a long time. We both told our other friend (who was hosting and obsing) to just pick whatever maps and that was the fucker he gave us for game 2! Only like 2 minutes in when we went to scout did we learn that we couldnt easily leave our base.
I went scout of course. ^^
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...Well, it seems I've been trolled.
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solving the map issue is easy, silence the people that always want new stuff and always complain about the new stuff. Or i just should stop checking threads with the word map in the topic.
But nothing can beat the sheep map of warcraft 2! The pain of placing builds arg need to click sheeps and let them explode
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Oh my, this was fantastic, thank you. People tend to romanticize a bit too much about Brood War, especially when they talk about sc2.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/7/75/CrazyCritters.jpg/400px-CrazyCritters.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/2/2c/Crystallis.jpg/600px-Crystallis.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/169_Demon's%20Forest.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/6_Sin%20Peaks%20of%20Baekdu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/2/27/Showdown.jpg/199px-Showdown.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mapdori.com/map_images/(6)DMZ%201.0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mapdori.com/map_images/(5)%ED%99%A9%EC%82%B0%EB%B2%8C%201.2.jpg)
