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Active: 1605 users

Calling MULES On Close Patches is Bad

Forum Index > SC2 General
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STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 06:38:53
June 25 2011 22:14 GMT
#1
Not sure if this is public knowledge or not but I often see players calling MULES on the closest mineral patches instead of the farther ones. I wanted to know if doing this was necessarily better or just a false truth, so I did an experiment.

Calling a MULE on a close mineral patch will return 270 minerals, but the MULE will actually mine 300 minerals, and die in transit to the command center, thereby causing you to lose these 30 minerals. Calling it on a far patch will still yield 270 minerals over its lifespan but the MULE dies on its way back to the mineral patch so you don't lose anything.

Just wanted to let everyone know if they didn't already that calling a MULE on a closer patch actually harms you as the game goes longer and your bases begin to mine out.

MOD EDIT:
To clear up all the misinformation flying around here..
On June 26 2011 12:20 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2011 07:24 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
I was under the impression that the opposite was true. By calling down a mule on a far patch, he dies on the way back from returning a load, thus you lose 30 minerals.
Yes, this. I heard that a long time ago, and it was by quite well-respected people as far as I remember.

Something like 240 and a wasted trip if you went on far patch, 270 and no wasted trip if you went on a close one.

Maybe Blizzard did some sort of hidden update? or is someone just mistaken?

One thing I do know though... it's it is not as simple as close patch and far patch... there are close patches and far patches, but there are also patches inbetween, some which are more shorter, others which are more further, and probably some (not sure how many) that are truely in between them both.

EDIT: OK this makes perfect sense and it's what I remember
Show nested quote +
LIQUIPEDIA: MULE
It has been noted that depending on the mineral patch a MULE has been ordered to mine, it may make eight or nine trips. Specifically, on mineral patches with optimal efficiency (usually the ones closest to the Command Center) the MULE will mine and return its cargo nine times providing the largest possible income. On the farthest mineral patches, the MULE will only make eight trips returning a total of 240 minerals before being destroyed. The last (and worse) case are mineral patches that have an average distance from the main building. When mining these minerals, the MULE will gather nine times but will be destroyed before it returns its last cargo, wasting 30 minerals completely.
Therefore it is recommended that players take note of which mineral patches are "optimal" on each map to ensure maximum efficiency from the use of MULEs.


So It is MEDIUM distance patches that will cause this problem. Far distance patches will only make 8 trips and die, which is still very bad. Close distance patches will yield 9 trips and should not be dying with minerals in their arms.

Take a look at this link:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5015816
Look at the pictures of the mineral positions. The map screen shots are old, so they may not be accurate (aside from many of the maps not even being used anymore), but it is not very intuitive as to which patches are close and which are far.

Maybe... there are actually FOUR distances...
  1. 270 with wasted 30
  2. 270 (no waste)
  3. 240 with wasted 30
  4. 240 (no waste)

I find this somewhat hard to believe though, because liquipedia doesn't pick up on it, nor do those other people who peopled about this long ago. You'd think if they picked up on the 240+30 they would have picked up on the 270+30.

Maybe all that information is so old, it was before the patch that fixed worker micro trick to speed up mining time, which was enough to affect the mules from mining extra (or missing a trip) to being able to return that trip, or mining extra. This seems like the most probably explanation, but I'm suprized that no one would have picked up on it long ago. Maybe it's just that I don't play terran and hence don't follow this as much as others.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
Janar
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands96 Posts
June 25 2011 22:15 GMT
#2
Interesting I never knew this thanks for sharing.
Only the fittest of the fittest shall survive, stay alive.
ShrikeG
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada75 Posts
June 25 2011 22:16 GMT
#3
On top of that the closer patches naturally mine out faster anyways so by calling mules on the farther ones it should even it out more.
But only the weak, they lack the passion to prevail, but not us, only the weak.
seefour
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom107 Posts
June 25 2011 22:16 GMT
#4
What? Your saying that calling mules on close patches is bad because it mines the same as calling on any other patch? People will still do this out of habit.
"All war is based on deception" - Sun Tzu
OzkanTheFlip
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States246 Posts
June 25 2011 22:16 GMT
#5
wait a mule mines 30 mins in one trip?
Make Moar Roaches
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
June 25 2011 22:18 GMT
#6
Good to know, thanks for this.
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 22:19:34
June 25 2011 22:18 GMT
#7
On June 26 2011 07:16 seefour wrote:
What? Your saying that calling mules on close patches is bad because it mines the same as calling on any other patch? People will still do this out of habit.

Minerals are limited at a patch. Calling MULEs on close spots gains nothing more except wasting minerals at your patches (30 are never returned after being harvested)

Calling MULES at the further spots gets the same amount of minerals, but it never has time to mine the 30 additional minerals that get wasted. Which is better.
MERLIN.
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada546 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 22:19:45
June 25 2011 22:19 GMT
#8
Maybe a strategy forum post, I really don't know where this fits... Actually, simple question, simple answers or some form of simplistic thread. I don't really think this warranted a thread though, since common sense isn't that hard to come by, I could be wrong. That's why theres mods active, : P.

Good point though, but should be obvious, even without the 30minerals, theres less movement time so you want those to stay around longest.
"A bullet to the head will solve your problems."
Chocolate
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2350 Posts
June 25 2011 22:19 GMT
#9
wow, nice find! you should post this in 1000 tips thread
MERLIN.
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada546 Posts
June 25 2011 22:20 GMT
#10
On June 26 2011 07:19 Chocolate wrote:
wow, nice find! you should post this in 1000 tips thread


Exactly, thats the thread I was thinking of, couldn't put a name to it. Day saver Chocolate.
"A bullet to the head will solve your problems."
Phayze
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2029 Posts
June 25 2011 22:20 GMT
#11
By calling down mules on a close patch you are essentially destroying 30 of your own minerals. wow, that's pretty cool. I think i'm going to test this out myself.
Proud member of the LGA-1366 Core-i7 4Ghz Club
NeWeNiyaLord
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway2474 Posts
June 25 2011 22:22 GMT
#12
WOOT, I have never noticed =o Thank you!
This is where we begin. Show your true self, Battosai.
Keype
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden455 Posts
June 25 2011 22:22 GMT
#13
thats pretty cool tbh. Will defineately try to get that into my habit! Big thanks!
Tornado Terran Fighting!
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
June 25 2011 22:22 GMT
#14
Well this is certainly good to know! Thanks!
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
roflcopter420
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden168 Posts
June 25 2011 22:22 GMT
#15
I just tried this and I found it not to be true
Its much the same as milking a cow
AxelTVx
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada916 Posts
June 25 2011 22:23 GMT
#16
Oh wow..... I always saw my MULES always dying half-way, but I forgot that they'd lose minerals! Great find!
Axel 145 Masters Protoss
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
June 25 2011 22:24 GMT
#17
I was under the impression that the opposite was true. By calling down a mule on a far patch, he dies on the way back from returning a load, thus you lose 30 minerals.
rickybobby
Profile Joined October 2010
United States405 Posts
June 25 2011 22:26 GMT
#18
wow i never knew that i totally thought you were supposed to call it to the near ones
FinnGamer
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany2426 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-25 22:30:49
June 25 2011 22:26 GMT
#19
I think it depends on how saturated the base is, meaning that the Mule does not switch patches

Edit: missinformation nvm
"hopefully swing the favor in your advantage." - Day[9]
MERLIN.
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada546 Posts
June 25 2011 22:28 GMT
#20
On June 26 2011 07:26 FinnGamer wrote:
I think it depends on how saturated the base is, meaning that the Mule does not switch patches


The mule will never "switch" patches unless you que 2 mules on 1 patch, it runs out, or you personally move it...

I dont understand what your trying to say.
"A bullet to the head will solve your problems."
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