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Calling MULES On Close Patches is Bad - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
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SecondChance
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia603 Posts
June 26 2011 06:05 GMT
#141
If it is true that a mule has the potential to lose 30 minerals, then I would say that this is poor design on blizzards part.

The mule should simply stop mining if time to mine + travel time is > than mules timespan left.
I see the want to in your eyes.
slytown
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)1411 Posts
June 26 2011 06:08 GMT
#142
On June 26 2011 07:28 RivalryRedux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2011 07:24 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote:
I was under the impression that the opposite was true. By calling down a mule on a far patch, he dies on the way back from returning a load, thus you lose 30 minerals.


I think this was the case in the beta but the mule duration or speed was changed to make it so you always get 270.

Also, I'm pretty sure koreans are well aware of this as I remember seeing MMA move his mule away from the patch at the end of it's life span vs Idra in MLG.


That's pretty baller.
The best Flash meme ever: http://imgur.com/zquoK
AusBox
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia214 Posts
June 26 2011 06:10 GMT
#143
I don't understand why people instantly adopting the OP as truth when it has no images or videos to back it up and it disputes what is written in Liquipedia.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 06:15:22
June 26 2011 06:14 GMT
#144
How counterintuitive and helpful. Guess I'll have to remember this from now on.

Oh, and now I have another thing to call an opponent a scrub over. If I ever see them MULEing a close patch, I can say that they are a no-skill and ridicule them! Hurrah!
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Dimagus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1004 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 06:18:44
June 26 2011 06:15 GMT
#145
On June 26 2011 15:05 SecondChance wrote:
If it is true that a mule has the potential to lose 30 minerals, then I would say that this is poor design on blizzards part.

The mule should simply stop mining if time to mine + travel time is > than mules timespan left.


The game shouldn't hold your hand on the primary racial mechanic. The player makes the choice on which mineral patch to send the mule and if it is going to lose 30 minerals, that is the player's responsibility. Same deal for protoss, it's not the game's responsibility to check if the unit is supply blocked for chrono boost.
Noro
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 06:25:55
June 26 2011 06:25 GMT
#146
Except that you didn't test the other part of this... The mule makes less trips if you send it to a far patch. thus giving you less resources than close patch.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
June 26 2011 06:27 GMT
#147
On June 26 2011 15:25 AIRwar wrote:
Except that you didn't test the other part of this... The mule makes less trips if you send it to a far patch. thus giving you less resources than close patch.

?
He says it still gets 270 mins, thus the same amount of trips... With close, you get an extra "half" trip, thus you lose an extra trip's worth, or 30 mins.

That's what he said. Dunno if it's true.
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
June 26 2011 06:28 GMT
#148
On June 26 2011 07:29 seefour wrote:
So each mineral patch has 1500 and you have 8 mineral patches so that's 12000 minerals. You would need to drop 30 mules on close patches to reduce your mineral income from a base by 7.5%. Each mule dropped on close patches loses you 0.25% of your total income from a base. Breaking insight into game mechanics -.-


but why would you just leave minerals on the table especially when mining close patches gives no discernible advantage. It's just smart playing, regardless of the reasoning behind it. Quit trying to bring the OP down with petty remarks like this.
weaknurse
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia320 Posts
June 26 2011 06:29 GMT
#149
Just tested this, Op is right.
Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
June 26 2011 07:00 GMT
#150
I think during a critical moment in the game when you're worrying about your micro, macro, drops etc, this might be a distraction, but otherwise, it's great thing to do during the earlier stages of the game.
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
johanngrunt
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Hong Kong1555 Posts
June 26 2011 07:06 GMT
#151
http://www.mediafire.com/?qve58qarjaefz4c

OK, here is some testing.

AND A REPLAY hehe. On XNC, you're welcome to test others.

For most close patches, the mule dies just before it completes the mining animation to get the extra minerals. So for most close patches, the mule mines 270, and doesn't get you a 30 min deficit. It's just faster than the far patches.

(I just look at mins remaining for close and far patch)
(Obv far patches are 270 and the mule dies on way back)

Some close patches are like what the OP says, like in bot 3rd base, (about 21mins in the replay, don't ask me why I spent so much time looking at mules mine, they're cute) then the situation the OP states does happen, 270 mins and 30 min deficit compared to far patch.

Tested the top gold as well, no difference there just for ur info.

So just to be safe, just hit far patches.
Or actually it doesn't really matter in a real game.
Drayne
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada239 Posts
June 26 2011 07:15 GMT
#152
This Thread needs a video in the op, please! we would very much like it!
boon2537
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States905 Posts
June 26 2011 07:23 GMT
#153
there's an old thread about this : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119738
Assuming that your information is correct, Bilz secretly changes the mineral distance since according to that thread, all close patches yield full 270 mineral. So in order to find the optimal patch to mule, one needs to test it on every map. Considering that 30 mineral lost is not that big of a deal, the testing might be too time consuming, but it would be cool to see nonetheless
Flavor
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada8 Posts
June 26 2011 20:27 GMT
#154
On June 26 2011 12:52 Gnax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2011 12:50 Flavor wrote:
Also, when you get into a habbit of calling down mules on the close patches, they tend to get mined out first making your scv's less efficient


Why do people keep saying this. You realize you can transfer workers right? and that you get a message when mineral patches are mined out?



Whats better mining? 40 workers mining 16 crystal patches or 40 workers mining 14-12 patches? think about it. Yes you can transfer workers, but that is more actions, and obviously less efficient for you mining. THINK about it.
My life for Auir!! err... i mean Nerzul
Flying_Cake
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada117 Posts
June 26 2011 20:30 GMT
#155
This will never impact the outcome of a game.. Seriously..
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-26 20:37:07
June 26 2011 20:36 GMT
#156
On June 27 2011 05:30 Flying_Cake wrote:
This will never impact the outcome of a game.. Seriously..


Why do people say stuff like this? Every little thing matters at a high level. It's just another small thing a player can add to their game and take advantage of. All the little things add up. Every mineral has value.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
June 26 2011 20:40 GMT
#157
On June 27 2011 05:30 Flying_Cake wrote:
This will never impact the outcome of a game.. Seriously..


Neither will worker stacking in the start - oh wait....
KazaDooM
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria32 Posts
June 26 2011 20:43 GMT
#158
Actually it is quite big considering the amount of mules used in a game. It could easily add up to 300 Minerals.
Even on 1 Base Vs 1 Base this can be huge if you loose like 120 minerals.

On the same notion I don't get why zergs would ever build buildings with drones that carry minerals or workers with minerals are sent to harvest vespene.
Sir! we are surounded! Perfect now we can attack in any direction :D
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
June 26 2011 21:35 GMT
#159
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Luppa <3
Gaspa
Profile Joined February 2011
Brazil109 Posts
June 26 2011 22:06 GMT
#160
On June 26 2011 07:54 Kiarip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 26 2011 07:53 latan wrote:
On June 26 2011 07:48 dhe95 wrote:
It's also better to not constantly call upon on the same patch. Think about it, if you have 5 patches with 800 minerals each, you'll get only a total of 25 minerals per trip, since unless you have mules scvs will mine one at a time. If instead you had 8 patches with 500 minerals each, you'd get a total of 40 minerals per trip.


however, less patches means you can saturate with less workers. which gives saves you some workers to use in your expansion.

yeah I agree with this


I don't. Because it makes absolutely no sense. The more patches you have mining, the higher you income, for about any amount of workers (as long as you have about an equal amount of harvesters per base and some other caveats...).

Seriously, kiarip and latan, you better rethink that "mining out patches saves you harvesters" logic. It's pretty darn broke.

[=
"I cannot believe you were stupid enough to be offended by what I said" -- A. Schoenberg
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