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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
On June 26 2011 08:04 JamesJohansen wrote: Oh thank god, I'm always losing by a margin of 30 minerals. This is the answer to my prayers There was a TvP at MLG columbus that had 180 mules called down if they all lost 30 minerals he would've thrown away 5400 minerals that game. Think you could lose a game by a margin of 5400 minerals? | ||
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Lunchador
United States776 Posts
On June 26 2011 10:47 Tipany wrote: The difference is negligible... isn't that an obvious fact already? Are you even reading this thread? Many of the replies imply that they might change their MULE dropping habits or at the very least, think about any potential losses. The pros who read this thread already are thinking if it's worth it to change their MULEs around or not because you need virtually every damn possible advantage to win! And for every 100,000 games where it won't make a difference in the outcome, you can bet your ass off there is that ONE game where the player won it by a 30 mineral margin. And it would be absolutely, without-a-doubt, worth it and glorious. Now I'm saying I personally won't change how I do MULEs, and I strongly advise everyone to just blindly change their minds because there are advantages to doing things both ways, which is what I fear is really happening in this thread. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to follow me. | ||
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runforyourllife
United States73 Posts
thanks man | ||
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Helixpython
United States14 Posts
On June 26 2011 11:54 Jaeger wrote: There was a TvP at MLG columbus that had 180 mules called down if they all lost 30 minerals he would've thrown away 5400 minerals that game. Think you could lose a game by a margin of 5400 minerals? Not if i win in the first 5 mins  On topic, very useful note, will be put into practice! | ||
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Cubu
1171 Posts
On June 26 2011 11:54 Jaeger wrote: There was a TvP at MLG columbus that had 180 mules called down if they all lost 30 minerals he would've thrown away 5400 minerals that game. Think you could lose a game by a margin of 5400 minerals? No not when u hav the mins of wat 180 mules yield. ppl will still call mules on closer patch, out of habit. | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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TheAmazombie
United States3714 Posts
I just see it as a tip for people that is very simple, not time-consuming at all, that causes a player to just be slightly more optimal than another player. Good find! | ||
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peawok
United States71 Posts
I'd thank you more, but I play protoss | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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alan25
United States379 Posts
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:24 Xxazn4lyfe51xX wrote: Yes, this. I heard that a long time ago, and it was by quite well-respected people as far as I remember.I was under the impression that the opposite was true. By calling down a mule on a far patch, he dies on the way back from returning a load, thus you lose 30 minerals. Something like 240 and a wasted trip if you went on far patch, 270 and no wasted trip if you went on a close one. Maybe Blizzard did some sort of hidden update? or is someone just mistaken? One thing I do know though... it's it is not as simple as close patch and far patch... there are close patches and far patches, but there are also patches inbetween, some which are more shorter, others which are more further, and probably some (not sure how many) that are truely in between them both. EDIT: OK this makes perfect sense and it's what I remember LIQUIPEDIA: MULE It has been noted that depending on the mineral patch a MULE has been ordered to mine, it may make eight or nine trips. Specifically, on mineral patches with optimal efficiency (usually the ones closest to the Command Center) the MULE will mine and return its cargo nine times providing the largest possible income. On the farthest mineral patches, the MULE will only make eight trips returning a total of 240 minerals before being destroyed. The last (and worse) case are mineral patches that have an average distance from the main building. When mining these minerals, the MULE will gather nine times but will be destroyed before it returns its last cargo, wasting 30 minerals completely. Therefore it is recommended that players take note of which mineral patches are "optimal" on each map to ensure maximum efficiency from the use of MULEs. So It is MEDIUM distance patches that will cause this problem. Far distance patches will only make 8 trips and die, which is still very bad. Close distance patches will yield 9 trips and should not be dying with minerals in their arms. Take a look at this link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5015816 Look at the pictures of the mineral positions. The map screen shots are old, so they may not be accurate (aside from many of the maps not even being used anymore), but it is not very intuitive as to which patches are close and which are far. Maybe... there are actually FOUR distances...
I find this somewhat hard to believe though, because liquipedia doesn't pick up on it, nor do those other people who peopled about this long ago. You'd think if they picked up on the 240+30 they would have picked up on the 270+30. Maybe all that information is so old, it was before the patch that fixed worker micro trick to speed up mining time, which was enough to affect the mules from mining extra (or missing a trip) to being able to return that trip, or mining extra. This seems like the most probably explanation, but I'm suprized that no one would have picked up on it long ago. Maybe it's just that I don't play terran and hence don't follow this as much as others. | ||
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SkimGuy
Canada709 Posts
Thanks for the tip OP. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On June 26 2011 12:03 TheAmazombie wrote: Why are so many people hating on this? I know it will not drastically change a game, but I would think that pro-players and lower players trying to be optimal could use little tricks like this. Sometimes games are decided by half a second and in that time a few more mins could be helpful. I just see it as a tip for people that is very simple, not time-consuming at all, that causes a player to just be slightly more optimal than another player. Good find! In BW T pros would frequently build their first depot in a spot that increased mineral mining efficiency. However, it only increased it on some maps. Still didn't stop people from doing it on every map on every position. (What was a bit more normal was people sending their peons to the fastest mining patches initially, which varied for every position on every map. So people would memorize which patches were best. I never fooled with this, as I was a C- player- but people definitely did it. The most infamous map for this was python, which actually featured a spawn with really inefficient patches after the first few minutes, but was one of the few spawns to allow certain greedy builds if you sent workers in the appropriate order.) | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
But that would require a lot of attention. | ||
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oblong
United States86 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:19 MERLIN. wrote: Maybe a strategy forum post, I really don't know where this fits... Actually, simple question, simple answers or some form of simplistic thread. I don't really think this warranted a thread though, since common sense isn't that hard to come by, I could be wrong. That's why theres mods active, : P. Good point though, but should be obvious, even without the 30minerals, theres less movement time so you want those to stay around longest. what the fuck? are you really saying that what he posted isnt important enough for its own thread? yeah, no. | ||
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Bloog
United States44 Posts
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Sv1
United States204 Posts
If you are however savvy enough and expand at appropriate times you can transfer scvs when patches have been depleted. | ||
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CheeC[h]
United States137 Posts
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Flavor
Canada8 Posts
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:59 Ketara wrote: Since I'm bored and enjoy quoting myself, I did my own test. On far patches you do in fact only mine 240 minerals, and still lose 30. this. i wanna see some real results from testing. | ||
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