EPTWhat I'd like to discuss is if there are any protoss openers/reactions that could cause trouble for this opener. I can hold off a 4gate "easily", along with all the other one base play that comes later than a 4gate. I'm wondering if there are any openings that I'm missing which could get me killed. (proxy voids, etc)
Something worth nothing about 15CC is that bio is the only viable transition. (It's the only way I can hold off a 4gate- I was able to hold off once with 3 rax and a factory once, but the 4gate was poorly executed). The advantage to this is since your protoss opponent might try to punish you with a 4gate, once you hold with 3 bunkers, you can more or less counter and win. Or do anything at all and win.
If protoss fast expands himself, it'll be later than yours.
Again, this will not work close.
Thoughts?
EDIT: The type of chronoboosted aggression I'm talking about is blindly chronoing out a few units, and being very aggressive with them.
Alright, many people have brought up concerns, here's more details:
1) OMG NOOB 15CC isn't better than 1 rax FE.
On March 31 2011 10:32 nyc863 wrote:
I ran a test on xnc comparing 15cc and 1rax fe
In both cases, I built depots fairly sequentially after 21 supply, but made zero army.. just let the cash and empty depots pile up. Both gasless.
3 minutes - 16scvs 560 income 75 cash ... vs ... 15scvs 620 income 415 cash
4 minutes - 19scvs 640 income 360 cash .. vs ... 17scvs 860 income 430 cash
5 minutes - 20scvs 1140 income 675 cash .. vs .. 21scvs 860 income 840 cash
6 minutes - 27scvs 1520 income 1515 cash .. vs ... 24scvs 940 income 1435 cash
7 minutes - 34scvs 1660 income 2240 cash .. vs ... 30scvs 1580 income 2250 cash
8 minutes - 41scvs 2040 income 3575 cash .. vs .. 37scvs 1680 income 3300 cash
9 minutes - 47scvs 2040 income 5005 cash .. vs .. 44scvs 1840 income 4660 cash
bear in mine the scv and income numbers are just snapshots and not perfect for example the income number may lag or a new scv may be just about to pop at each time point.
Up to 5 minutes something, you have less free cash (for units). Early CC, extra early OC cost..
Just prior to 6 minutes your income is accelerating away with the 15cc vs the 1rax fe and you've got about the same free cash now, and are starting to build an scv/mule lead.
At 8 minutes you banked 300 more minerals and are ahead 4 or 5 scvs and a mule or two. I actually stopped building scvs towards 9 minutes in the 15cc because of saturation.
Before the 9 minute mark your two base mineral saturation is done for 15cc but not quite done for 1rax fe. (obviously if four gas you're not saturated at all).
In order to be ready for a 4gate or early lings as 1rax fe, you need to have spent that 1500 on another rax, two or three bunkers and marines, you have more income than production facilities for a while, so you must do stuff like build bunkers and put 2 marines in each.
I ran a test on xnc comparing 15cc and 1rax fe
In both cases, I built depots fairly sequentially after 21 supply, but made zero army.. just let the cash and empty depots pile up. Both gasless.
3 minutes - 16scvs 560 income 75 cash ... vs ... 15scvs 620 income 415 cash
4 minutes - 19scvs 640 income 360 cash .. vs ... 17scvs 860 income 430 cash
5 minutes - 20scvs 1140 income 675 cash .. vs .. 21scvs 860 income 840 cash
6 minutes - 27scvs 1520 income 1515 cash .. vs ... 24scvs 940 income 1435 cash
7 minutes - 34scvs 1660 income 2240 cash .. vs ... 30scvs 1580 income 2250 cash
8 minutes - 41scvs 2040 income 3575 cash .. vs .. 37scvs 1680 income 3300 cash
9 minutes - 47scvs 2040 income 5005 cash .. vs .. 44scvs 1840 income 4660 cash
bear in mine the scv and income numbers are just snapshots and not perfect for example the income number may lag or a new scv may be just about to pop at each time point.
Up to 5 minutes something, you have less free cash (for units). Early CC, extra early OC cost..
Just prior to 6 minutes your income is accelerating away with the 15cc vs the 1rax fe and you've got about the same free cash now, and are starting to build an scv/mule lead.
At 8 minutes you banked 300 more minerals and are ahead 4 or 5 scvs and a mule or two. I actually stopped building scvs towards 9 minutes in the 15cc because of saturation.
Before the 9 minute mark your two base mineral saturation is done for 15cc but not quite done for 1rax fe. (obviously if four gas you're not saturated at all).
In order to be ready for a 4gate or early lings as 1rax fe, you need to have spent that 1500 on another rax, two or three bunkers and marines, you have more income than production facilities for a while, so you must do stuff like build bunkers and put 2 marines in each.
It's actually easier to hold a 4gate when you 15 CC than if you 1 rax expand, because the economy kicks in right before the 4gate, with 1 rax expand, it's slightly after the 4gate timing.
What about 3 gate contain?
On March 30 2011 22:57 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
If you no rax cc it should probably be placed at your nat, together with bunkers... Otherwise this would just happen everytime, seems a bit pointless.
If you no rax cc it should probably be placed at your nat, together with bunkers... Otherwise this would just happen everytime, seems a bit pointless.
What about stalker run-bys?
They shouldn't get into your main, since you should be walling off the top of your ramp anyways. You should have a bunker covering your ramp so something can't hit your buildings uncontested.
Blink stalkers?
This becomes an intense micro war. It's also pretty all-inish from your protoss opponent- if they don't deal damage, they're massively behind.
Drop prism play: Good, active scouting.
DT play: Good scouting, remember to throw down an engineering bay and a turret if you get suspicious.
Void rays: You should have produced a good number of marines. A multi-pronged attack could be hard to hold off, but not impossible.
