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[D] 15 CC TvP- Viable? - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Severus_
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
759 Posts
March 30 2011 18:24 GMT
#41
15CC is rly bad in SC2 i mean its the same as 1rax FE you have the same scv count and other stuff.
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
March 30 2011 18:29 GMT
#42
On March 31 2011 00:50 b_unnies wrote:
the last time someone did 15 CC to me, I did a 4gate hallucinated colossus to warp units up into his main when he's busy defending against me from the earlier troops i made that are camped outside the expo


This makes me sad. It always seem that anytime Terran makes any progress the fact that Toss can just walk up into your base just crushes the dream
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
uSnAmplified
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1029 Posts
March 30 2011 18:39 GMT
#43
On March 31 2011 03:29 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 00:50 b_unnies wrote:
the last time someone did 15 CC to me, I did a 4gate hallucinated colossus to warp units up into his main when he's busy defending against me from the earlier troops i made that are camped outside the expo


This makes me sad. It always seem that anytime Terran makes any progress the fact that Toss can just walk up into your base just crushes the dream
Progress? 15 CC is ridiculously greedy considering the metagame where protoss is going to 3 gate or 2/3 gate robo. Same reason i stopped one gate expanding except on huge maps like altar, because of the multiple ways a terran can punish or all in.
~
Came Norrection
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada168 Posts
March 30 2011 18:42 GMT
#44
15 cc sucks cause you don't get your first mule very soon and will be economicly even with a 1 rax fe but with less tech and less marines.
"The lie is just a great story ruined by the truth."
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
March 30 2011 18:56 GMT
#45
I'm sorry, but how are you supposed to stop them from chronoing out 2 zealots followed by stalkers and transitioning into 3/4 gate? I feel like I could do significant damage, meanwhile preventing you from building a bunker with my chrono'd units while I put up more gates and then hit u hard. I have actually done this before, but it aws a while ago. Maybe they guy just fucked up the build, but in theory this makes sense to me. I'm kind of confused how you're supposed to deal with 2 chrono'd zealots followed by stalkers . I don't think you could get a bunker up while I'm hitting you with all of this. Then when I come with a 3/4 warpgates it's GG.
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
March 30 2011 18:59 GMT
#46
On March 31 2011 03:39 uSnAmplified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 03:29 GinDo wrote:
On March 31 2011 00:50 b_unnies wrote:
the last time someone did 15 CC to me, I did a 4gate hallucinated colossus to warp units up into his main when he's busy defending against me from the earlier troops i made that are camped outside the expo


This makes me sad. It always seem that anytime Terran makes any progress the fact that Toss can just walk up into your base just crushes the dream
Progress? 15 CC is ridiculously greedy considering the metagame where protoss is going to 3 gate or 2/3 gate robo. Same reason i stopped one gate expanding except on huge maps like altar, because of the multiple ways a terran can punish or all in.


Really? 1 Gate is the PvT Standard followed by a Robo then Nexus. And FF is more then capable of defending any stim push. Not to mention the Stim Nerf.

1 Gate Robo is safe unless you don;t know how to use FF.

Terran has the biggest issue FEing because of how gay Toss can be with Voids which forces you to split your forces. Immortals that rape bunkers, FF that split your early Bio. Yeah toss should really be afraid.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
March 30 2011 19:14 GMT
#47
On March 31 2011 03:59 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 03:39 uSnAmplified wrote:
On March 31 2011 03:29 GinDo wrote:
On March 31 2011 00:50 b_unnies wrote:
the last time someone did 15 CC to me, I did a 4gate hallucinated colossus to warp units up into his main when he's busy defending against me from the earlier troops i made that are camped outside the expo


This makes me sad. It always seem that anytime Terran makes any progress the fact that Toss can just walk up into your base just crushes the dream
Progress? 15 CC is ridiculously greedy considering the metagame where protoss is going to 3 gate or 2/3 gate robo. Same reason i stopped one gate expanding except on huge maps like altar, because of the multiple ways a terran can punish or all in.


Really? 1 Gate is the PvT Standard followed by a Robo then Nexus. And FF is more then capable of defending any stim push. Not to mention the Stim Nerf.

1 Gate Robo is safe unless you don;t know how to use FF.

Terran has the biggest issue FEing because of how gay Toss can be with Voids which forces you to split your forces. Immortals that rape bunkers, FF that split your early Bio. Yeah toss should really be afraid.

If you're afraid of a rush you can evacuate your expansion. You really don't need to have your CC in place until Protoss claims his expansion anyway. One base two Orbital is better than one base one nexus.
My strategy is to fork people.
uSnAmplified
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1029 Posts
March 30 2011 19:22 GMT
#48
On March 31 2011 03:59 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 03:39 uSnAmplified wrote:
On March 31 2011 03:29 GinDo wrote:
On March 31 2011 00:50 b_unnies wrote:
the last time someone did 15 CC to me, I did a 4gate hallucinated colossus to warp units up into his main when he's busy defending against me from the earlier troops i made that are camped outside the expo


This makes me sad. It always seem that anytime Terran makes any progress the fact that Toss can just walk up into your base just crushes the dream
Progress? 15 CC is ridiculously greedy considering the metagame where protoss is going to 3 gate or 2/3 gate robo. Same reason i stopped one gate expanding except on huge maps like altar, because of the multiple ways a terran can punish or all in.


Really? 1 Gate is the PvT Standard followed by a Robo then Nexus. And FF is more then capable of defending any stim push. Not to mention the Stim Nerf.

1 Gate Robo is safe unless you don;t know how to use FF.

Terran has the biggest issue FEing because of how gay Toss can be with Voids which forces you to split your forces. Immortals that rape bunkers, FF that split your early Bio. Yeah toss should really be afraid.
1 gate FE i not "the pvt standard" just because you think it is and it supports your argument, the issue goes both ways because terran has just as many ways to abuse a protoss FE, including people who thor rush every game because they know it cant be held with forcefields.

If you are going to be greedy, know what you are doing and be prepared to pay the consequences instead of whining about it.
~
boSeok
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada177 Posts
March 30 2011 19:34 GMT
#49
I know a person who uses this. www.YouTube.com/ketroc21
Skank
Profile Joined October 2010
United States329 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 19:37:05
March 30 2011 19:36 GMT
#50
I'd like to try this out sometime, but I first I want to know a more complete build order. For Selkie or anyone else whose had success with this, when do you get your barracks and when do you make your main an orbital? And lastly, gas before 2nd rax or after 2nd rax?
"To be honest, to play protoss is ridiculously simple" -NesTea
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
March 30 2011 19:39 GMT
#51
On maps like crevasse it's possible. If it's better then 1rax FE: I don't know...
PredY
Profile Joined September 2009
Czech Republic1731 Posts
March 30 2011 19:40 GMT
#52
On March 31 2011 04:39 Dente wrote:
On maps like crevasse it's possible. If it's better then 1rax FE: I don't know...

i think you get slightly better eco with 15cc but faster stim with 1rax expo
http://www.twitch.tv/czelpredy
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
March 30 2011 19:52 GMT
#53
Any map that has a wide open natural or environmental exploits, via Warpgates, makes both the 15CC and the 1 marine expand pretty darn risky. Especially on the ladder.

I think I'm going to go on record and say I don't really like the 15CC. I'm not sold on it yet.

You're relying on bunkers (risky + $$$)
You're delaying tech and production
You're now double producing SCVs ...

Obviously if it goes unchecked and the threshold of vulnerability passes it is incredibly useful, but on the ladder where you have no concept of your opponent's style (unless you're high level and face a lot of well known or the same opponents) I still favor "safer" openers.

[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 20:02:31
March 30 2011 19:59 GMT
#54
I have been experimenting with blind 15CC a lot, I like to wall-off with Rax, CC and depot since even proxy zealots don't deal enough DPS to keep your buildings from finishing and subsequently being repaired (check inbase after depot though ).

It's just dissapointing that you're going through a lot of trouble (probe harass bleh) while in the end it'll net you about 2 SCV's more than you'd have with a much simpler and safer 1 Rax FE. At the 6 min (4-gate) mark your economy is pretty much equal to 1 Rax FE, but with less marines to defend. Timings work out so you can get 2 additional rax building before the CC finishes while having just enough minerals to morph it into an OC, but I kinda feel like I need a bunker ready around the 4:30 mark to hold off the inevitable zealot stalker push with just marines.
I think esports is pretty nice.
Came Norrection
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada168 Posts
March 30 2011 20:24 GMT
#55
On March 31 2011 03:59 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 03:39 uSnAmplified wrote:
On March 31 2011 03:29 GinDo wrote:
On March 31 2011 00:50 b_unnies wrote:
the last time someone did 15 CC to me, I did a 4gate hallucinated colossus to warp units up into his main when he's busy defending against me from the earlier troops i made that are camped outside the expo


This makes me sad. It always seem that anytime Terran makes any progress the fact that Toss can just walk up into your base just crushes the dream
Progress? 15 CC is ridiculously greedy considering the metagame where protoss is going to 3 gate or 2/3 gate robo. Same reason i stopped one gate expanding except on huge maps like altar, because of the multiple ways a terran can punish or all in.


Really? 1 Gate is the PvT Standard followed by a Robo then Nexus. And FF is more then capable of defending any stim push. Not to mention the Stim Nerf.

1 Gate Robo is safe unless you don;t know how to use FF.

Terran has the biggest issue FEing because of how gay Toss can be with Voids which forces you to split your forces. Immortals that rape bunkers, FF that split your early Bio. Yeah toss should really be afraid.

1 gate FE gets a cyber core before FE thus is actually as slow as a 2 rax fe with gas... 15 cc is like a minute before a 1 gate FE.
anyways most protoss either go 3 gate expand or 2 gate robo on ladder against T. some do 1 gate FE but SCV all in kills that every time.
"The lie is just a great story ruined by the truth."
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 30 2011 22:33 GMT
#56
4 gate 4 gate 4 gate oooohhhhhh.......................crap, not the write song...

Cheese them cheese them

That beats it.
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
March 30 2011 22:39 GMT
#57
It seems pretty viable but only on super big maps... anything closer would be bad since 2 probe harass significantly delays this or mining time
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Acridice
Profile Joined December 2010
United States298 Posts
March 30 2011 22:45 GMT
#58
On March 31 2011 07:39 tehemperorer wrote:
It seems pretty viable but only on super big maps... anything closer would be bad since 2 probe harass significantly delays this or mining time


2 zealot harass u mean? cuz i agree. I don't see how the terran can deal with this + stalkers following + 3 gate pressure. Seems like 1 rax FE would be much better
The superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions. - Confucius
drcatellino
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada346 Posts
March 30 2011 23:12 GMT
#59
It has become a standard opener for me in TvP. I build the CC in my base. Double scvs production + double mule = crazy income. If he tries a contain you get tanks and drop him. I start a third CC as soon as I get a safe natural.
quote unquote
HeroMystic
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1217 Posts
March 30 2011 23:18 GMT
#60
On March 31 2011 08:12 drcatellino wrote:
It has become a standard opener for me in TvP. I build the CC in my base. Double scvs production + double mule = crazy income. If he tries a contain you get tanks and drop him. I start a third CC as soon as I get a safe natural.

This actually seems to be the best idea IMO. Your main is nowhere near saturated on a 15 CC. You don't need to expand immediately. Unless you really need the gas keeping your CC on one base is much safer.
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