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DISCLAIMER: This is not a discussion about imbalance. It is purely about excitement value for spectators. If you want to cry about how OP Colossi are, please look elsewhere.
What is hype?
If something is hype, it makes the crowd get excited. Simple as that.
What makes something hype?
If something is hype, it usually includes some or all of these things:
1. Crazy feats of dexterity
2. Unusual/creative play
3. Huge damage in a single blast (or the potential for it)
4. Comebacks
Hype Examples:
(Non-Starcraft)
-Daigo SFIII Full-Parry (1, 2, 3, 4)
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtuA5we0RZU
-Wombo Combo (1, 2, 3)
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_imYhNoQ4
(Starcraft)
-Reaver Drops (1, 3)
+ Show Spoiler +
-Baneling Explosions (especially if burrowed) (3, 4)
+ Show Spoiler +(Fast-forward to 16:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULsy9j4skQ Day9's drawings are pretty hype too.
-Reach Uber Storms (1, 3)
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp4sfzD9nJI
So now you understand what hype is. Anti-hype is bad. It makes for boring games which make for fewer spectators.
Why are Colossi Anti-hype then?
Here's why:
The Colossus ball is strong. This is indisputable. With that in mind...
-It does not involve Crazy Feats of Dexterity (1). You sit on your ass and build up, then 1a. Sometimes you move your Colossi back. Whoopdie do.
-It discourages Unusual/Creative Play (2). It's easy and effective. Why NOT use the ball? It's super-common for a reason.
-There is very little variation in how much potential damage can be done in a single shot (3). It used to be cool to see marines/hydras/whatever melt to a few Colossi shots, but I've seen it a thousand times now. I can tell about how a battle is going to go, and it happens SO OFTEN that it doesn't even look that cool any more.
Let's compare the Colossus to the Brood War Reaver:
The reaver does 100 damage in a single shot (Colossi do 15 x 2)
Slow reaver moves slow.
Slow reaver shoots slow.
The reaver is powerful enough on its own to kill a bunch of clumped up units in one shot (3). It's unbelievably slow, so it requires a dropship and excellent micro if you want to use it to harass (1). I've seen reaver shots a thousand times and they are STILL hype.
Here's a related example. Imagine a Corruptor vs a harassing Phoenix. The Corruptor beats the Phoenix, but can't catch it. So when the Corruptor shows up and shoots once or twice, the Phoenix flies away. End of story.
Now imagine a Scourge or two vs a harassing Corsair. The Scourge beat the Corsair, but can't catch it. So when the Scourge show up the Corsair has to run all the way back home or GET BLOWN UP IMMEDIATELY. It is a much more tense situation. If the Protoss messes up for an instant, he loses the Corsair. It also helps that they're very close in speed so it looks like a close call every time. Even Vulture mines were hype because of the possibility for huge damage if even one of them wasn't cleared.
So how could the Colossus be more hype? Replace it with the Reaver?
Nope, you wouldn't even have to do something that extreme. Just make the Colossus shoot half as fast at twice the damage (30x2), and make it move slow as hell. This should have little impact on how much dps the Colossus does in a giant ball. It does however, open up the possibility for mineral line harassment and require Colossi to have Warp Prisms with them if they want to get anywhere fast.
For the animation, imagine the Colossus chargin' it's lasers, then releasing a strong blast all at once. Think Yamato Cannon. The charge would build so much hype.
Thoughts? Do you guys still get excited when a player masses Colossi? I sure don't.
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Collos are just boring - give us sth exciting like the reaver!
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So, instead of 4-5 colossus, toss will get 10, and 1 shot the entire zerg army? Tsss... At the moment, if toss go fast colossus vs zerg, lings can take them down even, however, if you upgrade to 2 x 30, then all lings get 1 shotted...? And roaches get 2 shotted? How would zerg counter this at all?
Even tho they attack slower, one volly destroys the entire zerg army in one shot. Now think about terran, same thing happens, the entire terran force gets 1 shotted, even marauders get 2 shotted, and they are supposed to be half decent counters...
At the moment, although they shoot faster than you are suggesting, they hit for less, so getting your army into the position it needs to be into to kill them is easier...
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I completely agree, the Colossus not only encourages boring "death ball" play from protoss users but also is extremely easy to use and execute. You really can't use colossus as a harassing unit due to its lack of mobility (Movement speed) as well as it is dead if it comes in contact with an air unit. I personally have felt that the Colossus ruins the game for spectators because if you aren't going death ball with protoss you are taking away the best chance of winning. I think most people might agree that death ball protoss is not nearly as entertaining or skillful as doing a beautiful HT build, but the fact of the matter is the HT builds have timing weaknesses that the Colossus does not. Therefore Blizzard forces Colossus. And with the new Amulet nerf coming out I imagine it will force even more Colossus play.
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Give Colossus Khaydarin Amulet.
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Oooh I really like the idea of making colossi attack and move much slower but hit harder.
Imagine warp prism micro, with colossi 1-shotting probes. Om-nomnom
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If collosi did twice the damage, a group of collosi would destroy things instantly. The dps might be the same as the attack speed is lower but a group of collosi would eat everything for breakfast. Collosi are already to slow to run away from most things able to kill it, so lowering the speed would be not needed. Warp prisms are extremely squishy and are to hard to be mostly required for a fast transportation for most users that play the game.
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Tbh I'd be down for just giving the reaver back. I don't really mind the colossus but speed prism harass with reavers would be sick.
edit: Warp Prisms aren't so squishy btw. Nearly the same HP as medivacs, they could just give em a couple more, worst case scenario, but warp prisms with speed are like shockingly fast so it'd be awesome to have a reason to use them.
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-It does not involve Crazy Feats of Dexterity (1). You sit on your ass and build up, then 1a. Sometimes you move your Colossi back. Whoopdie do.
Yeah, I agree. I never see anything amazing with Colossi. Even in pro games, they just move them back, then move them forward. Something so boring, is so strong...it sucks...(I am a zerg player...)
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I generally agree, Colossi are dull units to see and use.
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or if you want to take the OP post even more literal, buff warp prism HP/shield beyond its pitiful state so that colossi can actually be used effectively as neo-reaver drops...
which i'm not entirely hating at this point. x)
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What is hype?
If something is hype, it makes the crowd get excited. Simple as that.
Grammar note: things are not "hype". Something can be hyped, or cause hype, or have hype, but "hype" is not a property that something can simply be.
I don't like this notion of appropriating words for a different purpose. "Hype" has a perfectly functional definition already. If it's "Simple as that", why not just say:
If something is exciting, it makes the crowed get excited.
It says exactly what you want without torturing the English language (more than it gets tortured on a daily basis on the Internet, at least). Just say that Colossi are boring; that's a word that already exists and describes exactly what you're talking about.
Just make the Colossus shoot half as fast at twice the damage (30x2)
Something like that was tried in the beta, and Blizzard changed it to what it is. Because it didn't work.
require Colossi to have Warp Prisms with them if they want to get anywhere fast.
For the animation, imagine the Colossus chargin' it's lasers, then releasing a strong blast all at once. Think Yamato Cannon.
Look, if you want Shuttle/Reaver back, just say so. Don't try to hide what you want by pretending to be compromising. You want the Shuttle/Reaver dynamic back.
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I was having this exact conversation lastnight. Putting all balance aside, reavers & colossus share a similar role. Reavers were one of (if not the most) exciting unit in BW, from a spectator perspective at least. That "ohshitohshitohshit" moment as a scarab chases a ball of marines or workers was amazing. Colossus, on the other hand, are probably the most straight forward and uninteresting big AOE damage unit in the game. Colossus are so good that any Protoss is silly not to get them (given a few exceptions), and they rightfully need to be that good for the sake of balance. I just wish they were somehow more interesting, but I don't have an answer to how besides cliche "make it like a reaver".
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I would love to see the Reaver/Prism micro come back in SC2. Colo are boring units to use anyway.
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reaver drops in sc2 :D that´s kinda interesting but sry guys sc2 isn´t made for the microkings
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I totally agree. I was going to make a thread about how the Collusus is helping stagnate the potential for sc2 but don't play toss so I didn't have enough inside knowledge.
For being THE unit in all 3 matchups, a crutch onto which the protoss lay upon, it is such a boring unit. As you said, you just 1 a and then sometimes pull the collusus back. I think it really needs to be redesigned entirely. It's just a huge unit that does alot of damage and little to no micro. And it doing damage isn't that exciting either. You never hear someone go "OMG LOOK AT THAT COLLUSUS DAMAGE!!!"
Banelings require micro and have amazing animations which do one shot damage. Collusus however just live and do more damage. Imagine how boring the baneling would be if it just shot lasers and did a bunch of damage. It isn't just doing a whole bunch of damage that makes it exciting, its how it does it. And this is where the Colossus fails.
For example, imagine if the Collusus's attack consisted of simply a giant hand that you select where to go(sort of like storm). While incredibly weird and not the best example, its a heck of a lot more exciting to see a ton of damage like that. The point is when the Collusus does its own stuff its not exciting. It's the micro that is.
On March 15 2011 09:11 Senx wrote:
Marauders and collosi are good examples of this = Strong, extremely predictable and static behavior.
I disagree with the marauder being a "boring" unit. To see it stim and kite is so exciting to me, not to mention when they drop into a toss's base, the potential for so much damage is enormous! Plus the fact they focus fire many stuff makes it more exciting(unlike the collusus, which just 1 a's).
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This is really a repeat of the 100 pages long threads we had during the beta.
The main problem is that blizzard made strong units, but they never made them interesting and dynamic like BW units were.
Marauders and collosi are good examples of this = Strong, extremely predictable and static behavior.
Siege tanks and banelings are good examples of well designed units - strong but still dynamic and interesting.
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In my opinion, colossus AoE must be changed.
I always wanted colossi to work like a lurker. You see first spike and you got .75 seconds to move your marines away from approaching spikes by moving them left or right. Brings excitement. Make lasers for colossi to have a small delay with indication in ground where it will hit so players can micro their army to dodge that attack. Also make colossi be able to change its lasers beam. Currently it is horizontal but having an option of making it attack vertically too (Cooldown of change will be 3-5 seconds or whatever time it will make sense). Would make colossi a lot more interesting and blink stalkers should beat colossi ball in pvp if microed correctly.
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Agreed , I use P and try to stay out of colossi builds because how boring they are to my eyes....
Its funny because when i play against terran they build some Vikings anyway almost always
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This was my initial reaction to SC2 during beta and my biggest complaint about it since.
The most entertaining aspect of SC:BW (as both a player and a spectator) was the seemingly in-human feats that good players could pull off. It's also why I love SSBM and UT-style FPS games.
I find very little excitement in SC2 outside of marine splits against banelings 
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EPT
