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TL Mafia XXXVII
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Barundar
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On February 14 2011 15:37 Gofarman wrote: It just came up on a search I made, I had previously asked for access but never had any reply so I assumed it was never done. I guess I assumed it would show up on the left when access was given. nope, forum index all the way ^^ | ||
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Hillarity ensues. | ||
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First off, goddammit GMarshal, leaking my top suspect. Can’t you hold it in for 1 night? I wanted to see if he would actually post in the evening as he promised, but the weak FoS gave him a chance to defend himself before I got around to post. Well, at least it proved that Jackal58 has great reaction time, despite not talking much. My thoughts on the thread so far: GMarshals plan is a lot like what RoL has recommended for PM’s, pick out some random people from the list and start talking to them. While you can’t trust them, you get more to analyse, and it’s easier to catch a mafia slipping up if you have more opinions from them. Just be careful with experienced players, and treat your partners like they are scum. If I was on a scumteam, I would tell my inexperienced teammates to stay out of PM land. Gryffindor proposes a really silly (in lack of a better word) plan, there is no way of finding guaranteed innocents with GF and framer around, and even if one such could be found, all mafia has to do is gain his trust and make him spill, =dead blues. The only benefit of mass claim to a confirmed townie is the coordination of medic protection and DT checks. It won’t magicly find mafia amongst the non claimers, or identify fake claims. What gryffindor does do is post a lot, he promotes activity, and he is actually scumhunting. I don’t give much for his lists, but so far his impact has been positive on the town, as long as people don’t stop thinking for themselves. Regarding annul, you should keep in mind that he opposed GMarshals plan before he (allegedly) got his role PM. Hence I would be very careful with lynching him just for opposing that alone. Other than that agree with Foolishness’ comment, it would be funny if LSB got revenge on annul. Why has a decent case on icemac, but not certain if icemac is aggressive townie or mafia. Analysis of Jackal58 On February 24 2011 00:47 Jackal58 wrote: Good day fellow scum hunters. Sorry for the late start but I bowl on Tuesday night. There are quite a few people in this game that I have never seen before so it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around everything everybody has said so far. My thoughts on cells: Thoroughly undecided. If their only reason for being is analysis keep it in the thread. I'm at work right now so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like, but I'll be in here this evening. gryffindor why on earth would you claim vet? I did it in XXXVI to avoid being lynched but man that was pointless. You're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. This post is COMPLETELY out of the ordinary for Jackal. Jackal’s playstyle as town consist of independent opinions, with a tendency to tunnel. His posting style is stubborn and humorous. He rarely posts long posts, and in general just give short statements, but often posts a lot. When he finds scum, he will make it clear for everyone, state his reasons, and keep up pressure on the person. Being stubborn he is very difficult to convince otherwise, once he has found his target(s). In the above post he differs from his usual play as town in a number of ways. Sorry for the late start but I… … so it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around everything everybody has said so far. …so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like… First of all he gives multiple excuses as to his posting straight away. This is unlike his other games, even in his first game in mafia xxxv he didn’t feel the need to excuse his inexperience without being called out for it. As I said above, Jackal is an independent player, he doesn’t care much if people accuse him, town yells at him or if the things he sais comes off in the wrong way. Him apologising like this upfront, without anyone even calling him out is unusual. If you a read Ver’s guide to improving at mafia, it’s not natural for a green mindset to apologise and appear useless, since it will make other players pay less attention to what they have to say. It is however entirely within the mindset of a mafia, who just want to make a post noone cares about, and let the town fight with itself instead. He apologies for posting less, but in normal games his many first posts are just one liners, this one is a lengthy one for him. By sheer size it should be an improvement for him, but what does it really contain? My thoughts on cells: Thoroughly undecided. If their only reason for being is analysis keep it in the thread. His thoughts are thoroughly undecided. Why even comment then? If this is the reason he felt the need to add to the conversation, then I sincerely expected more. Jackal as town has very strong opinions, and this is just neutral mentioning – he doesn’t improve the plan, he just questions it. Posting without contributing. gryffindor why on earth would you claim vet? I did it in XXXVI to avoid being lynched but man that was pointless. You're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. A weak FoS with a relevant question. On one hand it is sort of an opinion, on the other hand it has been posted before. In Guts and Glory he simply quoted Amber[light]’s post and commented “this post ems of scummyness”. Weak FoS isn’t typical Jackal, even if I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s not much to warrant a post like that from him though. I'm at work right now so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like, but I'll be in here this evening. He promises to post more in the evening. I was holding this analysis back to see if he actually would. As I said in the beginning, this got ruined, but he didn’t post until he got mentioned, and it still proved his reaction time was good. Note that Jackal has been posting from work in his other games, and it hasn’t stopped him from being active. Other suspicious post: On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. Sharp reaction to getting PM’ed. Jackal had no problem PM’ing with me in mafia xxxv. ##Vote Jackal58 | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
@gryffindor: You aren't suggesting the medic claiming to anyone but the guy he saved, right? In case we get a medic save, and it can be ruled out it was a vigi shot then you most likely have a townie indeed. But we can take that when it happens? Setup has quite a few gimmicks to counter "follow the detective" strategies. Guess it's nice to hear Foolishness is suspecious of Jackal58 as well. @Jackal58: You messed up in your first post. If you are town you defend yourself now. Not one of them has me aggressively tunneling anybody in the first day or two. Wrong, in guts and glory you settled on Amber[light] on first day, and GGQ before first lynch. | ||
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It's true that Jackal hasn't posted much, and that his first post is by far the substantive part of my argument. But that is beceause that was where he messed up. Mafia aren't going to be suspecious all the way, mafia can contribute or share when they feel it furthers their cause. But his first post set off all the alarms, it contains multiple apologies for not only time, also for "new players" in the game, and it promises more, that wasn't delivered. I think this is a way better case than random voting inactives, or the most active posters so far, that has gotten into a fight. But I'm not stopping you from doing your own scumhunting. | ||
Barundar
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I asked you to defend yourself, if you are town, and your response is a nice OMGUS? What about answering my analysis of your first post? It's not about tunneling, it's about your apologetic tone and lack of contribution. Yes I will push for you if I think you are scum, but you can convince me otherwise if you actually are town. | ||
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On February 25 2011 03:08 LSB wrote: I'm going to have too agree with Jacakl here, Barundar you are reading too much in one post. Sure, it might be useful in RL mafia trying to pick off tells on how people are phrasing things, but in online mafia, it's a whole different game. For example, my first post was apologizing that I wouldn't be active, and I'm town. It's not like that apologizing is necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps I am reading too much into one post. But he isn't doing much to prove me wrong. He puts a nice OMGUS on me, states that I'm part of a scumteam, and then does nothing to scumhunt against me or point out why I would be mafia. He is acting inconsistent with his own scumlist. Problem isn't that he excused himself. Problem is he held an apologetic tone without contributing much. It makes his post suspecious, and I find it interesting that you don't think it is the least suspecious. Now he has shown some agression that can be hard to fake, and is quite typical for him. But he is by no means clear of suspecion just beceause he posts an OMGUS list. | ||
Barundar
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On February 25 2011 04:32 LSB wrote: I don't find him suspicions because that's how he plays. Jackel58 is known to post an OMGUS list with little/no explanation, but he is scary accurate on the scum. Look at Guts and Glory. Jackel didn't really do much in the game but name 4 people. Of the 4 people, 3 were scum. If we are going to lynch Jackal, it can't just because of a "maybe" or a "tell". I want proof. Lol when did Jackal become gods gift to scumhunt? He sheeped after Coag onto GGQ in that game, messing up the Amber lynch. He also had me pegged as mafia in a post. In mini mafia V he tunneled pandain so hard he nearly lost the game for town alone. I wrote Jackal's playstyle into my post. I don't see you disagreeing with what I wrote there? I also explained why his first post differed from that. But you want "proof". Can you hand me the proof for annul so I can vote him then? | ||
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On February 25 2011 07:36 LSB wrote: What I am saying is that Jackal wrote two kinds of posts this game. The first is just an apology that he's going to be busy. This is very standard. And the second is his normal fair, not explaining much. The problem is your argument is this. 1) Jackal isn't posting as usual, so he must be mafia 2) Jackal is posting as usual, so he must be mafia. You are going to have to pick one of the two. You can't argue both. As for Jackal58 having good hunches, iirc he wasn't too far off the mark in midgame XXXVI Look to the post I just did Yeah I'm looking at it. He's insisting that we lynch GM. Why? Oh, because of his sudden ascertain that town circles are 'ainti-town' for no reason http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=30#581 I fully expected to be linked to an increminating post of his, but instead I got linked to your post, where his reasons are actually listed and you disagreeing with him. Storytime! Why Annul was an easy read in XXXV 1) He mad up stuff and pushed stuff that didn't exist Check, this game he's pushing GMarshal, saying GMarshal is clear mafia, although there is literally nothing in his accusation 2) Besides responses, he posted nothing else Look at Annul's posts. How many of his posts deal with things other than Gmarshal or defending himself? I can't find any. A storytime? Thats your example of proof? I see a weak case, and absolutely no opposition to lynching annul, despite him being far ahead, and noone really taking responsability for pushing it. Weak case and no opposition=townie from my experience. There is not even a serius alternative at this point. | ||
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A) Was expecting the Gryff wagon to work B) Got bussed by his team C) Got annoyed by afk inexperienced team and didn't care | ||
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At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. LSB is the most suspicious of the 2. He wasn’t the first to get suspicious of annul, or to call him out on his bad play, but he tried to take full credit for the lynch, asking for medic protection instantly. This is exactly how a mafia who has just bussed his team mate will act. LSB had a possible scumslip to boot: For example, in PM gryffindor just defended Iceman/annul. When annul flips red this will prove very useful information. Foolishness on the other hand voted annul to pressure him. He later changed his vote to pressure seraph, and left it there until the lynch. If I was mafia buddy with annul I would have left my vote on him to get town cred or to try and save him. FoS LSB | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
To everyone else, I will post a full case on LSB later. He has several inconsistencies in his posts, showing that he 1) staged the annul lynch 2) tried to take more credit for a lynch than he deserved. For now I would just like to point out he doesn't actually even defend himself against my accusation. | ||
Barundar
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Part 1: Was annul a bus? From http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bus bus on mafiascum: How to Spot it Suspicion commonly arises when someone is suddenly lynched for what seem like minor or spurious reasons, and yet flips scum, because it may be indicative that one of the major proponents of their lynch is actually one of their scum partners. The indicators in my words: 1) The bussee is already under town suspecion 2) The lynch faces little resistance 3) The busser uses the lynch for town credit My arguments as to why annul was a bus: 1) First of all annul was already under what I believe to be town suspicion before LSB entered the scene. Deconduo had cast his vote on annul at least to pressure him, OriginalName had asked if we should start voting him, GMarshal had been analysing his post and found no contribution, Mr.Wiggles found his playstyle in mafia xxxvi to be indicative of a better player, that wasn’t showing in this game, and why argued that LSB was suspicious. All of these people argued for annul being suspicious, but they weren’t sure. A number of them tried to scumhunt annul, asking him to explain why he was acting up, trying to gather more evidence. That’s standard pro town play. LSB wasn't as concerned with if annul was actually just a stupid townie, but more with getting him lynched. He didn't need convincing. I'll go more into detail with that in part 2. 2) A large amount of the votes on annul was for other reasons than him being red: On February 25 2011 05:54 kitaman27 wrote: Currently the votes on annul include GMarshal, who thinks he is town, Gofarman, who classified annul as an inactive, astroorion who is a complete lurker, and LSB who has had problems with annul is past games. Looking solid. Annul might have acted suspicious, but he was by no means guaranteed to get lynched that day. All he had to do to avoid getting lynched was to start giving better reasoning, and take an interest in the other lynch targets. Yet he chooses not to: On February 25 2011 10:04 annul wrote: i'm here, F5ing occasionally, playing L4D2. i can't really say anything since it will just be 'OMFG ANNUL IS SO AGGRESSIVE' if i do anything more, so i'll just stay AFK until we see the final vote. It got to the point where he had to get asked to at least try in the thread: On February 25 2011 10:25 LunarDestiny wrote: Annul, if you don't do anything people will not switch vote. This play style of yours is getting you lynched. While I still believe your aggressiveness is lower compared to other games, what makes you an easy lynch is that you don't reply with logical responses. I hope that is not what mafia is going for. Also, town players roleclaim regardless when they are getting lynched. That "you'll know soon after" is not general town play. Can you at least tell us what you observed? After this post annul does a few longer posts. Let me repeat this: He gets asked in the thread to at least try. It’s not his team mates being annoyed with him on irc, forcing him to stop screwing around, it’s in the goddamn thread. Despite relatively weak reasoning for voting annul, there was a lack of counter-bandwagons. Annul himself votes for gryffindor, so you would assume that if mafia had tried to save him, a bunch of votes would jump on Gryffindor. But this doesn’t happen, and annul didn’t try and bring a convincing case against Gryffindor himself. His reason was more just a justification of the vote, than an atttempt to convince others. Again, when asked in the thread: On February 25 2011 10:55 kitaman27 wrote: I would like to see your analysis of gryffindor if you are truly "making your move" On February 25 2011 10:58 annul wrote: i cant exactly give you my reason due to an edict imposed onto me by ROL (i offer myself to lightning if i am lying about this). but part of it is "between wiggles and gryffindor, i like gryffindor more." i haven't done any deep analysis on either of them really, i am only voting to save my ass. but others seem to have done so, so perhaps go with them? He still refuses to fight for himself. We know from mafia xxxv where he got LSB lynched, that annul can be convincing and lead a lynch. In this game he doesn’t even try, despite having access to a team of scumbuddies who can help his arguments or give his bandwagon weight. Here he doesn’t even try until asked to in the thread. He doesn’t role claim despite being asked to. He really only puts up a vote on a possible counter-bandwagon an hour before lynch time, and he doesn’t try to push the case. Yet he flips mafia. Mafia day 1 lynches are extremely rare, and games are balanced around town missing day 1 lynch. I haven’t seen it in any of my other games on TL. Yet we got one, where a majority of the votes was hardly because they thought he was red. The push for him was weak, and could have been easily diverted to a player like Gryffindor or icemac. If those 2 aren’t red, then annul was a bus. 3) As pointed out under 1), there was already a lot of suspicion against annul by the time LSB entered the scene. Yet LSB takes the full credit for the lynch: On February 25 2011 11:58 LSB wrote: I AM POWN On February 25 2011 12:04 LSB wrote: MEDIC PLEASE PROTECT ME. And Foolishness too. On February 25 2011 12:08 LSB wrote: W/e PROTECT ME MEDICS Please!!!! … No credit to the players I mentioned under 1). Deconduo was the first to cast his vote, yet he doesn’t try to use it to prove his alignment to town. LSB on the other hand has no issue with drawing medic protection to himself alone. He initially offers it to Foolishness, who didn’t even have a vote on annul by the time he died, but quickly changes his mind. All LSB cares about is himself. This is pure anti town behavior. Medic protection is just as much the threat of a player being protected, as it is the actual protection. Beceause medics actually rarely saves a hit, it's the mentioning of the possibility that is the real strength, it makes scum target others. The day 1 pattern fits exactly step 1, 2 and 3 above. There is suspicion against a mafia player A when mafia player B enters the scene. Mafia player B pushes the lynch, and when mafia player A flips, player B tries to take full credit for the kill, not recognising other players initiated the lynch and uses the town cred to his advantage. Question is, is this too obvious? Would LSB really follow the most obvious signs of a bussing mafia player? First of all you have to remember LSB and annul have a history. When LSB enters the scene, annul has already gotten suspicion on him. It would be suspicious by itself, if LSB didn’t try to push annul. So say LSB and annul are on a team together, what do they do? They know they can’t suddenly appear to be friends. Since annul is already suspicious, why not make the best of it? Secondly LSB does not shy away from playing obvious when anti town: HPmafia: LSB runs for mayor day 1, despite being asked by his team not to. As a result, Dr.H calls for a mafia bus on him (LSB was snape in this game, so we suspected he might betray us). Day 1 proceeds to have the whole scumteam accuse LSB, yet he manages to get RoL to trust him, and gets the lynch diverted. He also fishes out RoL’s veteran role, so on night 1 mafia stack hits on RoL to take him out. By day 2 it was blatantly obvious that LSB wasn't town alligned. Diplomacy MiniMafia: In Qatol’s words: LSB was one of the most blatant scum we've had in a long time. Ace roleclaims vigi, which is just about the most easily confirmed role ever, without being under serious pressure, and what does LSB do in response? Take Spain. Then he tries to lead a bandwagon to lynch Ace. When that fails, he makes a fleet so he can take out Portugal before the first time Ace can use his vigi hit. I couldn't understand how anybody could think a townie would do that. PYP3 (LSB was SK): LSB pushes a plan that is centered around confirming blue roles, giving SK all the information he could wish for to blue snipe. Busing his team mate to grant himself a town leader position, and direct medic protection on to himself only, is entirely the kind of power play LSB is known for. Part 2 and 3 coming up. | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
First of all, it’s difficult to pinpoint that exact moment in time, or post by annul, that convinces LSB that annul is mafia. In his first post: Annul's attacking people way to early again... interesting... not the first time he did this. Last time he did this he was mafia. I'm keeping this in mind. He is keeping annul’s play style in mind, so he is suspicious of him. Now, should we waste a lynch on an inactive? How about instead we push town inactives to modkill themselves? What do you guys think about that? We get to use our lynch on annul, and the inactives still disappear! In the next post LSB sound like he has already sorted annul as a lynch! Nothing happened between this post and the previous that should have raised his suspicion. But now it sounds like the lynch is already planned. Again, this is the fault of annul, he just asserts that he is right with no real reasoning. This is bad for the town for two reasons. 1) It makes him an easy bus by the mafia, ie merc mafia. 2) It makes it easy for him to hide when he actually is mafia. While discussing with annul this post comes up. He is bad for town, but not necessarily mafia. On February 24 2011 12:49 LSB wrote: ##Vote Annul I don't want to take him to lylo, and I don't think that he can be persuaded to modkilled himself His reason for voting. Doesn’t say annul is mafia. Note what a shit reason is, when was the last time you heard of someone who got persuaded to be modkilled? When LunarDestiny offered to get modkilled in mafia xxxvi, several mafia veterans felt the need to shout foul play in thread. Exactly, I've already explained why Annul is a horrible choice as we go to lylo. In addition, Annul is playing pretty scummy you can read my responses to his posts. Its a two for one deal. Still isn’t mafia. On February 24 2011 15:31 LSB wrote: PMs are great for purposes other than trying to make some kind of ill fated town circle which is going to fail and loose the town the game. For example, in PM gryffindor just defended Iceman/annul. When annul flips red this will prove very useful information. Woops! Now not only is annul now mafia, he is also flipping red. Between the last posts annul hasn’t posted, there has been no new evidence. There is no smoking gun. Yet now annul is suddenly red. What’s even more interesting is this isn’t even brought up while talking about annul, it slips out when he is trying to connect others to annul. Now most people who has played mafia a few times will agree that there is no such thing as a proof of alignment, without either mod interference (like bumatlarge in mafia xxxvi) or stuff like DT checks after Godfather is dead. Even then a miller can mislead. In the end, the only sure thing is just a convincing analysis. For town there is always the possibility of being wrong. This result in a sliding indicator of suspicion against a player, that can get stronger or weaker depending on actions and arguments. Thus a vote for a townie is more a case of suspicion vs suspicion, where the guy with the highest amount of suspicion from the majority of the player gets voted off. LSB doesn’t go through a process of higher or lower suspicion. There is an obvious inconsistency between lynching annul for being obstructive to the town, to suddenly know he is red. This is not the only time LSB foregoes the suspicion state. For a lynch on Jackal, LSB demands “proof”: If we are going to lynch Jackal, it can't just because of a "maybe" or a "tell". I want proof. LSB is experienced enough to know there is no such thing as certainty, especially not on day 1. He dismisses the arguments I brought forward regarding Jackal, and while my arguments might be wrong, they should still raise suspicion. You can argue against the argument’s and disagree with the conclusions, but you can never get proof, since only mafia knows who’s red and who’s town. LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. In part 1 I mentioned that a bunch of townies was already suspicious of annul before LSB enters the scene. They tried to reason with annul, and they asked him to explain his actions, also known as scumhunting. LSB is not actually concerned with scumhunting. He instead tries to find connections to other players: When I read through those posts, I see Icemanic supporting Annul's thoughts against the plan. In addition "day 1 analysis doesn't matter" is something I always watch out for as scum defence of scumbudie. To me, if Annul is mafia, icemanic isn't looking so hot. On February 24 2011 15:31 LSB wrote: PMs are great for purposes other than trying to make some kind of ill fated town circle which is going to fail and loose the town the game. For example, in PM gryffindor just defended Iceman/annul. When annul flips red this will prove very useful information. On February 25 2011 07:25 LSB wrote: ~snip~ Gryfs Pms Why would a townie be so concerned with connections to others before we even know if we have 1 scum? This early in the game it’s very unusual for mafia to directly defend each others. But a mafia whos bussing his team mate needs someone to connect to afterwards, to make the lynch worthwhile. LSB doesn’t actually start scumhunting and asking questions before close to the deadline. In between his suspicious way of reaching the conclusion that annul was scum, he has a fight with annul, but not even here does he asks for explanations, or for better reasons. For him, it’s more important to find others to go after once annul flips red, than to actually get convinced of annul's allignment. | ||
Barundar
Denmark1582 Posts
Now, at this point of time, mafia is sweating, they need to finger someone, and fast. There were two lynches that may be indicative of this Icanflylow, which is an inactive lynch, or Jackal58. I posted my analysis before you entered the picture, and before annul came back to spew nonsense. I doubt mafia was pressured at that point. They would be now though! How silly of them to initiate a fight with the guy who made sure he got the most town cred from yesterdays lynch. Barundar takes a very small part, one post and runs far with it. This is what I call, “Forcing analysis”. Barundar is trying to look for practically anything to be able to throw mud to he makes a mountain out of a molehill It’s day 1, there is limited information to pick from. Didn’t stop you from providing “proof” of annul of course. What’s interesting is you didn’t find Jackal’s post scummy at all. Other people did, and Darmousseh found it reasoned enough to vote for it. I still don’t know if Jackal is town or not, but you seem to do. Only mafia know’s whos innocent and whos guilty. The rest of us only have our arguments and assumptions. In this post Barundar says that we shouldn’t look at how Annul played in XXXV, as past analysis isn’t an example of proof. Nope, it’s an argument. I invoked past analysis on Jackal’s behaviour in my case against him. I might have be wrong, or I might have been right. Point is even the best analysis and most obvious reasons can be wrong. Your denial of this fact as a mafia vet is laughable. But guess what? That’s what Barundar based his Jackal case on, past analysis Lol yeah of course I used analysis in my analysis of Jackal. Now you are really trying hard. What I am saying is that Jackal wrote two kinds of posts this game. The first is just an apology that he's going to be busy. This is very standard. And the second is his normal fair, not explaining much. The problem is your argument is this. 1) Jackal isn't posting as usual, so he must be mafia 2) Jackal is posting as usual, so he must be mafia. You are going to have to pick one of the two. You can't argue both. As for Jackal58 having good hunches, iirc he wasn't too far off the mark in midgame XXXVI There is no contradiction. My argument was 1) of the 2 above, Jackal was posting unlike his past games. When he started posting more like he normally did my suspicion dropped a bit. Sadly that’s how suspicion works for us townies. Now let me show you a contradiction: if Jackal is such an awesome scumhunter, why don’t you place him as such on your list? You place him as an easy bus, yet I can’t recall jackal actually being lynched except as mafia. On the one hand you argue Jackal is a great scumhunter, on the other you argue he is an easy bus. So which one is it? Contradictions are scummy because they indicate forced analysis. The thing is, when someone plays as mafia, it’s hard to do analysis because you know that the person who you are doing analysis is town, so you have to make up stuff. And contradictions come when mafia isn’t careful with their fiction writing. I completely agree. See this post. And if you want proof I'm green, the fact that foolishness is still alive and wasn't triple stacked last night should be good enough. + Show Spoiler + <3 you foolishness You feel the need to green claim? Second time you claim townie. And wtf is up with you constantly sucking up to Foolishness, you scared of him? | ||
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