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Hey guys, this is my first map since... wow, almost a year. I got frustrated with the editor for a lot of reasons, but now I'm starting to think it was just me. Well, I have a new map that is somewhat reminiscent of Sin Chupung Ryeoung (someone please tell me how to spell that) and Destination. That being said, it is a rather linear map that also others "safe" expansions where you are not forced to expand in the direction of you opponent. The long rush distances and large amount of bases tend to make this map favor long macro-oriented games, which I love. 
I still have not published it yet, but have redesigned a few things. Check out the revised image.
Mains are located at the top-left and bottom-right positions.
Overview
+ Show Spoiler +
Overview (revision)
+ Show Spoiler +
51 in game seconds from main ramp to main ramp.
Something is seriously wrong with the images, it's like upside down or something, so if the map feels different in game, don't worry about it.
I added destructible rocks in several locations to choke the map up a little and contain Zerg (at least until they destroy the rocks). I also raised some of the ground in the middle of the map, made a small choke there and added LoSBs. I also added destructible rocks to the natural choke, ramp that leads into the third base, and ramp that leads into the fifths.
There is a backdoor into the natural, which is supposed to make gameplay more dynamic and allow greedy fast-expanding players to get punished if they aren't careful and if the attacker is aggressive, even though the map is very linear. I removed the destructible rocks there, because it didn't make sense. Now, the naturals are rather open, so that Terran/Protoss can stop a Zerg expansion more easily.
The middle of the map connects to the fifths/fourths (it's hard for me to tell which base would be the preferred fourth) and allows a player to attack the thirds without passing through the middle and onto enemy territory, so it's kind of like a sneak attack.
LoSBs are located at the expansion above/below the mains, at the side attack path that connects into the middle and in between the third and natural cliff. I added XWTs in the revision. There are four of them. They are supposed to help Terran and Protoss fend off Zerg.
I tried my best to make it look aesthetically pleasing as well as improved gameplay than my other maps, which I vaguely remember, but I do remember that they were terrible. I think I'm heading in the right direction with this map though.
I encourage those reading this thread to give me the utmost cruel criticism on everything this map has to other so that I can make better maps in the future! Mainly, I want to know whether or not I'm heading the right direction to fix this problem.
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Post the file so we can look around a bit more. I love your description and the image is nice, but I'd like to test it out for myself.
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On December 14 2010 12:08 Barrin wrote:Oh... no wonder you stopped making maps... + Show Spoiler +LOL JK SRY SRY  <3 Anyways I like it ^_^_^ Once you've expanded past your natural, defending all of your bases properly seems to coax your army closer and closer to the enemy, which most maps do actually, but I like the way it's done here. You've got some skill with the outside decorations dude, seriously pretty damn good. I think you should make the textures inside the playing field blend more though (I can give a few tips on how to do this if you want). Also you used the same textures throughout the whole map. It's best to give certain areas certain themes IMO. Pylons might be able to be placed in certain areas (behind natural rocks, on the 5th(4th?)) that would let you warp into the main (which isn't necessarily bad in this map). In fact, that might be one of the only thing in this map with high spectator value >.< >.< I don't see any real issues with this map TBH. It has flavor. I would only make changes after testing at this point o.O
Yeah, I stopped making maps because I COULDN'T DO IT and moved onto Halo: Reach forge, were I have made some awesome stuff.
Thanks! I always considered my aesthetics to be the worst.
I'll keep that texture thing in mind. I might give certain areas themes when I publish this (hopefully sometime this week, Halo: Reach MLG map submissions end Friday and that will be my #1 priority, then school, then SCII).
I like the idea of having pylons warping things into the main, it keeps you focused!
I'm going to reread your spectator value thread to get a better idea of what I can do better.
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I'm just going to be completely honest, but don't take it personally. This map could use some work balance wise, and spectator wise.
1) Turtling. Expansions can't be harassed. Main to main distance is huge. The fastest path is the widest. Four bases are easily defended by two small chokes.
To fix this, I suggest making the fourths cliffable. Also, make the thirds a bit closer but remove 1 gas. And cut out the center of the map and squish the two halves together. Aim to have playable size around 128x108. This may require remaking the entire map, I'm not sure.
2) Natural. Realistically, the back door isn't going to be used because the main entrance is by far closer, and already extremely wide. And its on high ground. And its blocked by rocks.
Twisting the natural is the first step to fixing this flaw. Curve it more compactly into the main, and allow it to be walled off much easier. Then remove the rocks, but make the back door tight (2rax or so). Test to make sure you can't tank the nat from across the high ground!
3) Aesthetics. From above, it looks okay. When in-game though, areas should differ. Make individual sections recognizable, otherwise it will seem chaotic and unorganized. Seperate bases, levels, and space by using different textures, but also make sure they aren't too abrupt transitions.
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This map is just too freaking large. Zerg players can comfortably drone away for far too long before getting punished. The middle is also extremely wide open and generally uninteresting.
Like monitor said I do feel the BD is a bit unreasonable to attack, the same problem appeared when we were testing Neo Avalanche.
I'm partial to the decorations but the cliffs surrounding your map are very nice.
The main problem with the map is still it's size and that will prevent other gameplay problems from being discovered until it's fixed.
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I don't think the rock textures should be used as the main texture for the paths. Most of them have very easily recognisable patterns, and if textures suffer from this, you usually want to hide it. You can hardly do so if the texture is used on larger areas.
Also, try to let the textures fade out into the direction of the paths. Don't sandwich textures, you want them to fade out in one direction usually, not have a blot of one texture inside of another.
Also, you don't want large areas where you have 50% rock texture and 50% grass on top of each other. Looks strange.
The meanders between the hills look nice and the general colour theme of the map is fine too. You'll surely get to it when you start mapping more often than once a year. ;D
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@Monitor - ...And that would be me subconsciously favoring Zerg. Dammit, that is like the third time... I'll try to improve the map to make it less Zerg favored, thanks for your help.
@G Wen - I'll try to improve the map to make it a bit more reasonable for all races and fix the backdoor.
@Barrin - SCII Map Analyzer doesn't work for Macs the last time I checked (does it now?).
@Koagel - The rock texture was the lightest in the title set, so I thought that it would make a good path for the map. Haha yeah I should map more on SCII, and next map I'll make something ridiculously simple lol.
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I have been thinking about removing the rock and adding LoSBs at the natural backdoor. I'm too lazy to entirely redesign the main + natural, but I think that I can squish the bottom and top of the map together without much trouble. This will force me to change the middle a little bit.
What do you guys think?
EDIT: I just updated the OP, so please, take a look.
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I like the LOS at the natural back entrance. The complaints about the size are fair. If I had to guess, I would say you're just not well-acquainted with the size of things, it takes a long time. For example, the amount of space at the third is just huge, unless you intentionally want a giant field there. You could easily make a version of this map that straight 75% shrinks it. You would lose a little of the character of how the center flows into the expos, but not destroying the essence. I wouldn't be so heavyhanded though, it might be useful to try tweaking your way there.
The towers in the center are kind of the same syndrome. They don't really do anything except cover more terrain, which looks fun to control, but isn't that valuable to control. One thing to bear in mind with the rocks is that they are less and less important as the game goes on. By the time players are bumping elbows at the 4ths/5ths, their armies will annihilate rocks too quickly for their presence to make a big impact.
I love the general mood of the aesthetics. Clean it up if you intend to make a trophy map, otherwise I wouldn't worry about it too much besides just practicing (which is certainly worth it).
Oh, and <3 forge! GL with the MLG contest.
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On December 15 2010 17:18 EatThePath wrote:
I like the LOS at the natural back entrance. The complaints about the size are fair. If I had to guess, I would say you're just not well-acquainted with the size of things, it takes a long time. For example, the amount of space at the third is just huge, unless you intentionally want a giant field there. You could easily make a version of this map that straight 75% shrinks it. You would lose a little of the character of how the center flows into the expos, but not destroying the essence. I wouldn't be so heavyhanded though, it might be useful to try tweaking your way there.
The towers in the center are kind of the same syndrome. They don't really do anything except cover more terrain, which looks fun to control, but isn't that valuable to control. One thing to bear in mind with the rocks is that they are less and less important as the game goes on. By the time players are bumping elbows at the 4ths/5ths, their armies will annihilate rocks too quickly for their presence to make a big impact.
I love the general mood of the aesthetics. Clean it up if you intend to make a trophy map, otherwise I wouldn't worry about it too much besides just practicing (which is certainly worth it).
Oh, and <3 forge! GL with the MLG contest.
Size is my #1 problem on making maps. I think I must have really bad depth perception or something, and I vaguely remember making a map that was like 90 x 90 or something ridiculously small and not even realizing it until I tested out. I guess that is what I have to think more thoroughly on in the future.
You're right about the rocks, I thought having them would help on earlier in the game, but later can be destroyed and make it more Zerg favored. This would give Terran and Protoss better chances of not getting totally annihilated at the beginning and then when everyone has an army, micro gets more and more important.
Thanks! I'm probably not going to win the MLG contest, two other maps that I am familiar with (that I believe are superior to my own) have already been entered, but we'll see.
I started working on a new map instead of resizing this one, I'll get it up on TL in two or three days max.
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i wanna play it :<
I can resize this one too, but I really want to make a good map first. So after I publish the other map that I am working on, I'll resize and fix this one and then publish it, so everyone can play on it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qmWMj.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZkzLO.jpg)
