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Germany / USA16648 Posts
Let's try this again, shall we?
Original OP by Glacius0 who gathered the info in the other thread:
As can be seen in the patch note discussion of this thread ultralisk splash damage was changed to fix a bug. This so-called "bug-fix" isn't so much a fix as it is a huge nerf. The splash range was as blizzard intended, but the unit radius +2 from unit center rule got a bit too crazy once they allowed you to target buildings with it. Now they changed it to +2 from the front of the target which fixes the "bug" but effectively nerfs splash range against bigger sized units. Smaller units go largely unaffected. Tanks are also affected, but not as much as they are medium-sized. This last sentence is wrong. See edit on the bottom of this post.Result? Ultralisks are no longer a valid counter to Thors.Here are some images to demonstrate (tested on burrowed ultras, as this was easier to test): + Show Spoiler +Prepatch: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qVE7K.jpg) Post-patch: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LcLJw.jpg) Post-patch worst situation (easily achieved with minor micro in case of thors): ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cK3Sz.jpg) Tests in the unit tester conclude: - One thor barely beats one ultra with no micro. - Groups of more than 6-7 thors vs equal amount of ultras with no micro can win. The bigger the group the better. Focus fire significantly helps Thors as ultras are unable to do something similar. - Chances of thors winning significantly increase with chokes. Blocking a choke with thors is easy as they are big. - Worst finding: If you spread out your thors even a little bit, they will receive almost no splash. In this situation thors effectively counter ultras now. It gets worse if you also target fire. Here's the result with proper focus fire and minor spreading (I only moved one thor forward a bit): + Show Spoiler +Starting position: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/eFxSf.jpg) Result: ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/f9YWW.jpg) Fixing a bug with a nerf doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. Additional testing is recommended if anyone is up to it. I did not test much with upgrades, except for getting 6 armor on ultras and seeing how unupgraded thors still counter them if you spread micro. Also I only tested a little while on 1.1 before patching to 1.1.1. Important edit:
Some additional research from Raketti in this post shows that it's worse than I thought. It seems splash got reduced for smaller units too.
Picture evidence here:
+ Show Spoiler +
My own short test concludes that I am able to hit a few more marines than on his picture (but still less than 1.1 I think) but it does indeed seem that siege tanks are affected similarly to thors. Siege tanks only seem smaller but the selection circle size is actually the same.
While the biggest impact is on large units like thors, the nerf actually seems to affect all units.
Keep it civil, excessive whining and complaining might result in warnings or bans, you have been warned.
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I'm really that stupid that I don't get it :o I mean they said it wasn't intentional what ultra splash did in 1.1 so why are so freakin' surprised that it's now nerfed?
Didn't they just pretty much reverted it back as it was in 1.0?
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Sigh.. Ultras were my only counter to thors :[
Good post though, hopefully blizzard will rework this so Ultras are once again thor destroying machines (I mean 1 vs 1 an ultra should win, thats ridiculous...) especially after the damage nerf in 1.1, and now the splash nerf in 1.1.1
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Wow splash damage really got fucked up, hopefully blizzard will fix it
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On September 28 2010 23:36 Piski wrote:
I'm really that stupid that I don't get it :o I mean they said it wasn't intentional what ultra splash did in 1.1 so why are so freakin' surprised that it's now nerfed?
Didn't they just pretty much reverted it back as it was in 1.0?
The building imba splash wasn't intended.
Normal splash was fine, afaik.
(unless I missed another blue post)
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@Piski
I think most people expected that only the splash on buildings was the problem (ie hitting SCV's repairing a PF). This hotfix however also influenced how Ultras deal with units. Therefor it is considered a nerf, and is upsetting people 
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Let's see how many months we zerg have to wait for a fix  )
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No 1.1 dident change their splash but added it to hit buildings as well, now that was to stong so instead of just fixing it against buildings they nerfed ultras overall also against units, now they are alot worse then before 1.1. (less dmg and less splash range)
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Awesome, psi storm splash nerfed, ultra splash nerfed, tank splash BUFFED! (talking about patches in the beta till now)
I hope they change this soon, this was totally unnecessary. In the start of the beta, ultras were rarely used, and then blizz buffed them until they were good. Now they've reduced their usefulness again.
Edit: Is 1.1.1 on US yet, because I'm not getting update
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I really thought that having ultras rape units near PF was fine. It gave you a reason to not let the ultra get near your buildings, and it gave zergs a reason to focus fire a barracks or command center with ultras when there were still other units around. It still took like 3 ultras to kill a PF, and two of the ultras would die
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Hmm, I wonder why they decided to change the whole mechanic instead of just buildings, Was it intended or did they just hastily attempt to fix it but actually screw up the mechanic? I guess we'll find out soon enough, blue posts willing.
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They should undo the damage nerf from 1.1, but keep the splash nerf from 1.1.1
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On September 28 2010 23:36 Piski wrote:
I'm really that stupid that I don't get it :o I mean they said it wasn't intentional what ultra splash did in 1.1 so why are so freakin' surprised that it's now nerfed?
Didn't they just pretty much reverted it back as it was in 1.0?
No, that's the point: Ultra splash on units was the same in 1.0 and 1.1.
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Can't they just reduce the splash area only for buildings?
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For a while it seemed Zergs just had to survive untill endgame. This kinda sux...
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well iam tending to no race but seeing the ultra change i feel its some way in the right way because even in the past the splash was like the bulding thing but just against units wich i cant understand why hitting units behind a unit far away if u are a melee unit.
Maybe blizzard didnt realised the effect of the ultralisk because u need to really look at it to see it and just saw it obvious in the 1.1.0 patch and changed it to what it should be in there eyes.
So u could say u got an unfair advantage over other ppl and if blizzard takes it away u cry and make accusations against blizzard wich is really dishonoring 
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Someone should post that on a Blizz forum!
On September 28 2010 23:36 Piski wrote:
I'm really that stupid that I don't get it :o I mean they said it wasn't intentional what ultra splash did in 1.1 so why are so freakin' surprised that it's now nerfed?
Didn't they just pretty much reverted it back as it was in 1.0?
No. Ultras had a different attack on buildings but the same splash on units as in 1.1. Now it seems their whole splash got nerfed instead of splash on buildings.
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On September 28 2010 23:45 Nightcrawler wrote:So u could say u got an unfair advantage over other ppl and if blizzard takes it away u cry and make accusations against blizzard wich is really dishonoring
Yeah, it was so unfair that no one had chance against Zerg, seeing as Zerg won pretty much all the tourneys.
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On September 28 2010 23:36 Piski wrote:
I'm really that stupid that I don't get it :o I mean they said it wasn't intentional what ultra splash did in 1.1 so why are so freakin' surprised that it's now nerfed?
Didn't they just pretty much reverted it back as it was in 1.0?
That is the thing here, they didnt just revert.
They made it weaker then it was pre patch 1.1, and didnt remove the damage nerf either.
So basicly its a dual nerf from before patch 1.1
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I like the change in general because to me it felt like game over if I let the zerg get into tier 3 without being crippled. And that's just not good. Weak early game and ridiculous lategame is not balance.
However, they should've undone the dmg nerf of 1.1, and obviously the race needs some fixing up in the early game as well.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/dIwUm.jpg)
