EPTThat's a bummer
so they slowly nerfed ultras, great. They responed in days to get rid of the building splash thing.Let us see how long it will take them to fix this
Ultralisk bug/issue with patch 1.1.1 - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Piski
Finland3461 Posts
That's a bummer so they slowly nerfed ultras, great. They responed in days to get rid of the building splash thing.Let us see how long it will take them to fix this | ||
|
parkin
1085 Posts
 | ||
|
ALPINA
3791 Posts
I am wondering was that intended to nerf Ultra that much or no. | ||
|
SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
Sure, it's a nerf, but now all AOE units in the game function in the same way instead of ultras being the odd one now. Game's more consistent now, and you always gotta be consistent before you start balancing, or else shit like this exact situation happen. | ||
|
Croz
Belgium17 Posts
Don't vent, don't whine, there's the official forumsfor that. I'd like to re-add my pokeball image again to illustrate ultralisk damage spread pre-post patch. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xCzNd.png) The red zone is obviously the zone which takes damage. Anything in that zone will take damage. The top half illustrates how attacking a small unit would create a small splash and a large unit would create a large splash. 1.1 added buildings to this and as build (especially a cc) has a very large surface, the aoe zone was huge. 1.1.1 illustrates the damage zone coming from the ultralisk. | ||
|
DTown
United States428 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:52 parkin wrote: I have faith in Blizzard. They know what they are doing. People kept saying that, and I kept agreeing. But stuff like this is honestly just scary stupid. Either way, in the long run, I still believe it. I may not like how they go about it, or their timetable, but I am confident that around a year from now, the game will have very reasonable balance. I just don't want to wait a year = ( | ||
|
rastaban
United States2294 Posts
| ||
|
MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
| ||
|
Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:50 Assirra wrote: That is the thing here, they didnt just revert. They made it weaker then it was pre patch 1.1, and didnt remove the damage nerf either. So basicly its a dual nerf from before patch 1.1 I'd rather have the ram attack back on buildings quite honestly. This patch seems to be more and more another way to buff terran than a way to help zerg. Ultras were probably one of the only counters to mass mech play. Mutalingbling was ok but once the terran gets past that threshold where they start killing everything as they come in a giant ball then the only thing that could stop them was ultras. | ||
|
OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:50 Daedie wrote: I like the change in general because to me it felt like game over if I let the zerg get into tier 3 without being crippled. And that's just not good. Weak early game and ridiculous lategame is not balance. However, they should've undone the dmg nerf of 1.1, and obviously the race needs some fixing up in the early game as well. Ya, I feel this too. It's like the zerg will always win if they can get to tier 3 and get ultras and broodlords. However, there are simply too many ways for the terran to kill the zerg before it gets there that they would have to want to lose to for the zerg to get there. IMO buff early game zerg, not so they can win early game, but just so they can survive early game. | ||
|
Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
I'd assume they'd need to be slightly buffed after that still, though I'd think for the TvZ MU, nerfing the ultra and buffing zerg gameplay up to t3 would balance it(imo ultras were(are?) too strong, while the road to getting them is too steep, meaning with zerg being powerhouse lategame, terran had to be powerhouse early game, but both sides would need to be nerfed/buffed to be balanced through the MU). | ||
|
Daxten
Germany127 Posts
| ||
|
MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:53 Croz wrote: Please if you have nothing usefull to don't post or it will get this post locked once again. Don't vent, don't whine, there's the official forumsfor that. I'd like to re-add my pokeball image again to illustrate ultralisk damage spread pre-post patch. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/9MqQv.png) The red zone is obviously the zone which takes damage. Anything in that zone will take damage. The top half illustrates how attacking a small unit would create a small splash and a large unit would create a large splash. 1.1 added buildings to this and as build (especially a cc) has a very large surface, the aoe zone was huge. 1.1.1 illustrates the damage zone coming from the ultralisk. Are you sure that the 1.1.1 picture is correct? I was of the impression that splash also affected units "in front" of the attacked one as long as they stand pretty close. Which would mean that an Utra is slightly more effective whenever enemy units stand in a "concave" than is suggested by the image. | ||
|
OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:57 Daxten wrote: This wont change Ultra vs Thor at all I think, since with ~5-6 Ultras Thors are still dead when u get a good surround Well, if you read the post in the OP, now ultras can't splash thors which are spaced out and since thors beat ultras 1v1, now you need more ultras than thors to win. What I don't get is, marauder costs more than stalker and beats stalker 1v1, reason: stalker is more versatile and can shoot air. Thors beat ultras 1v1 at the same cost and thors are more versatile, can shoot air, and are tier 2.5. | ||
|
Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:57 Daxten wrote: This wont change Ultra vs Thor at all I think, since with ~5-6 Ultras Thors are still dead when u get a good surround Key phrase is "when you get a good surround." Before ultras already required more micro then thors and how they require even more because they can't engage one on one any more. The thors will just a move into the ultralisks and kill them. Now imagine if you have scvs there repairing. That would be just awful. | ||
|
TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:57 Daxten wrote: This wont change Ultra vs Thor at all I think, since with ~5-6 Ultras Thors are still dead when u get a good surround You do know ultras and thors cost the same... if you did read the first post you would se thors win by alot now its not even close. | ||
|
bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
I mean should I say "Good finding, interesting to know, sure it will be useful to know that ultraliks suck against thors now". | ||
|
SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
Ultra is radius 2 at 180* for a total surface area of ~25 with 33% damage, so that ends up being 8.25. Thor is radius 1 at 360* for a total of ~12 with 100% damage, so that ends up being 12. Plus it's AA so the damage ceiling is infinite. plus its ranged. TL;DR Thor has a more potent AOE attack than the Ultralisk | ||
|
Sirion
131 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:36 Piski wrote: I'm really that stupid that I don't get it :o I mean they said it wasn't intentional what ultra splash did in 1.1 so why are so freakin' surprised that it's now nerfed? Didn't they just pretty much reverted it back as it was in 1.0? No, in patch 1.0 the ultralisk splash radius was increased by the unit size, but against buildings it used the ram attack. In 1.1 it used the same attack on units and buildings, but due to the big size of buildings, their splash in that setting became quite ridiculous. So now, in 1.1.1, the splash radius is no more increased by the target's radius. Some numbers on the effect: pre-1.1.1 -> 1.1.1 Against Marines: splash range: 2.375 -> 2 area covered: 17.3 -> 12.1 ( -30% ) Against Marauders: splash range: 2.5625 -> 2 area covered: 19.6 -> 11.6 ( -41% ) Against Thors: splash range: 2.8125 -> 2 area covered: 22.7 -> 10.5 ( -54% ) Against Siege Tanks: splash range: 2.875 -> 2 area covered: 23.6 -> 10.2 ( -57% ) Note how although the splash radius is now constant, the area of splash decreases for bigger units as the primary target blocks more area. I am pretty sure that a unit is affected by splash if its center is in the splash area. As a consequence, if two Thors are spaced in such a way that a marine fits in between, the second Thor will receive no splash damage. Therefore the the -xx% numbers are to be taken with caution, as the number of units inside the splash range is important. However in randomly arranged units, thats the average reduction of the splash. All in all this is a rather big nerf of the ultralisks splash damage, especially for a bug fix which should only remove unintended behaviour and not affect regular play. Especially as there is an easy fix for this problem by giving the ultralisk two attacks, one against units and one against buildings, which are identical except that for attacks against buildings the splash area is not increased. | ||
|
Snowfield
1289 Posts
| ||
| ||
