EPTbut what i find pretty not consequent, is that before this fix, it finally made sense to attack the pf with its ridicolous priority. but now, the ultra is nerfed, but the pf is still high priority. so they are op again, this is what i dont understand. when some terrans get owned because the damage model of a unit doesnt work the way it is supposed to be, it will get hotfixed. but the pf problem is exisiting since early stages of the beta. this is what i really dont get.
Ultralisk bug/issue with patch 1.1.1 - Page 3
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ensis
Germany340 Posts
but what i find pretty not consequent, is that before this fix, it finally made sense to attack the pf with its ridicolous priority. but now, the ultra is nerfed, but the pf is still high priority. so they are op again, this is what i dont understand. when some terrans get owned because the damage model of a unit doesnt work the way it is supposed to be, it will get hotfixed. but the pf problem is exisiting since early stages of the beta. this is what i really dont get. | ||
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parkin
1080 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:54 DTown wrote: People kept saying that, and I kept agreeing. But stuff like this is honestly just scary stupid. Either way, in the long run, I still believe it. I may not like how they go about it, or their timetable, but I am confident that around a year from now, the game will have very reasonable balance. I just don't want to wait a year = ( I was trying to be sarcastic.  I dont think think Blizzard are very competent (dont ban me plz). They were testing the patch for over a month and didnt discover this. If they keep doing things like this zerg will simply be a joke race that you choose out if you want to humiliate your opponent with because its such a huge handicap to play them. | ||
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Croz
Belgium17 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On September 28 2010 23:59 MiraMax wrote: On September 28 2010 23:53 Croz wrote: Please if you have nothing usefull to don't post or it will get this post locked once again. Don't vent, don't whine, there's the official forumsfor that. I'd like to re-add my pokeball image again to illustrate ultralisk damage spread pre-post patch. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/9MqQv.png) The red zone is obviously the zone which takes damage. Anything in that zone will take damage. The top half illustrates how attacking a small unit would create a small splash and a large unit would create a large splash. 1.1 added buildings to this and as build (especially a cc) has a very large surface, the aoe zone was huge. 1.1.1 illustrates the damage zone coming from the ultralisk. Are you sure that the 1.1.1 picture is correct? I was of the impression that splash also affected units "in front" of the attacked one as long as they stand pretty close. Which would mean that an Utra is slightly more effective whenever enemy units stand in a "concave" than is suggested by the image. I'm not sure...  I did update my picture based on a screenshot delivered by someone in the other post.+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xCzNd.png) I'm not quite sure what you mean btw. Mind painting it yourself?  | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:11 Numy wrote: It seems the splash before was rather illogical. Why on earth would it originate from the unit itself. Now the splash is far more initiative than it was before which most likely is a step in the right direction. The real issue here is that ultras ARE weaker thus there needs to be compensation so the equilibrium doesn't shift. I don't have very much faith in blizzard to fix these things. They take their sweet time before doing so when they talk about buffing zerg. | ||
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HiHiByeBye
Canada365 Posts
Top had about 10-11 thors? and it died to about 7 ultras and cool only lost maybe 1 ultra? and that is balanced? terran had no counter to ultras from the ground. Now they are more on even grounds. Zerglings are so cost effective vs thors. Now zerg is forced to have a unit mix instead of just winning by massing ultras and zergs are crying about this? | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:11 Numy wrote: It seems the splash before was rather illogical. Why on earth would it originate from the unit itself. Now the splash is far more initiative than it was before which most likely is a step in the right direction. The real issue here is that ultras ARE weaker thus there needs to be compensation so the equilibrium doesn't shift. This, unless they plan on rather than buffing ultras, buffing early/mid game for zerg, which I think would bring us a lot closer to balance, since you can't really balance the early/mid game and then ultras just spasm slaughter everything late game anyway. But about SCV's since someone mentioned that above me, it's really a shame that blizz didn't take this chance to hotfix scvs too, so the repair mechanic makes their targeting prio equal(or equal+1) to what they are repairing(and if a melee unit can't path to his target, that after x sec of trying he starts attacking the thing blocking him). | ||
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
And tweaking other methods to bring the game to equilibrium can be more troublesome. | ||
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JustPlay
United States211 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:14 HiHiByeBye wrote: Except now thors muder ultralisks with even the slightest bit of micro and zerg has no answer to thors on the ground or in the air.hmmm if you watch GSL game 3 cool vs top Top had about 10-11 thors? and it died to about 7 ultras and cool only lost maybe 1 ultra? and that is balanced? terran had no counter to ultras from the ground. Now they are more on even grounds. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:14 HiHiByeBye wrote: hmmm if you watch GSL game 3 cool vs top Top had about 10-11 thors? and it died to about 7 ultras and cool only lost maybe 1 ultra? and that is balanced? terran had no counter to ultras from the ground. Now they are more on even grounds. If you get ur thor ball surrounded by a unit specifically meant to counter them I think its balanced. | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
On September 28 2010 23:50 Daedie wrote: I like the change in general because to me it felt like game over if I let the zerg get into tier 3 without being crippled. And that's just not good. Weak early game and ridiculous lategame is not balance. I agree but I mean... it has swung too far in the other direction. Imagine a late game scenario where the terran has mostly thors with a few vikings sprinkled in. With ultras doing damage like this to a group of thors what can zerg even do. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
For instance, immortals are supposed to be the no brainer counter to ultras in a perfect vacuum right? Well guess what, if your immortals clumped (easy to do with range 5) vs ultras, the ultras would often win pre-patch 1.1.1 because 2 or 3 rows of immortals would get hit by splash... which is essentially giving Ultras the same range as immortals, plush splash! Design-wise, that wasn't right. When it comes to Terran, Thors are a little different since they are good against air and ground... and hellions destroy zerglings so insanely easily. Siegetanks being what they are. And Planetary Fortresses are fairly ridiculous because of the repair rate. So I definitely understand Zergs up in arms over the nerf of the Ultra. But wouldn't everyone rather a balanced game such that Zerg have a chance of winning even if they weren't way ahead? Seriously though, I think Blizzard needs to get Zerg right without having to give them a broken tier 3 unit. The balance needs to be more throughout the game, IMO. So again, this is a fairly terrible time for a nerf, but I think it was coming sooner or later anyway. Now we just need to see some more adjustments that balance the game in a smoother way. | ||
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SwampZero
Greece350 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:04 SwampZero wrote: Fun fact, the thor has a larger normalized [Surface X Damage] AOE than the Ultralisk right now. Ultra is radius 2 at 180* for a total surface area of ~25 with 33% damage, so that ends up being 8.25. Thor is radius 1 at 360* for a total of ~12 with 100% damage, so that ends up being 12. Plus it's AA so the damage ceiling is infinite. plus its ranged. TL;DR Thor has a more potent AOE attack than the Ultralisk Quoting again so it sinks in. Thor has a better AOE attack than the Ultralisk. It also has a better everything than the Ultralisk.... User was warned for this post | ||
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:17 mishimaBeef wrote: Isn't the correct counter to a factory based army broodlord (w/ corruptor for viking) anyway? Too bad vikings can snipe broodlords from a ridiculous range. | ||
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clusen
Germany8702 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:11 Numy wrote: It seems the splash before was rather illogical. Why on earth would it originate from the unit itself. Now the splash is far more initiative than it was before which most likely is a step in the right direction. The real issue here is that ultras ARE weaker thus there needs to be compensation so the equilibrium doesn't shift. I fully agree. It is a good step to make the game more logical, and it was necessary to fix Ultras vs buildings. But if you consider that Zergs have a rough time now, that Ultras were not OP before vs units(they have a very limited purpose, so of course they were good at it and 5 dmg vs light is not really strong anyway) and that there is nothing to compensate, this feels really wrong for Zerg players. They didn't even revert the damage-nerf... It would be nice to see some comment by Blizzard on that issue. | ||
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HiHiByeBye
Canada365 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:16 JustPlay wrote: Except now thors muder ultralisks with even the slightest bit of micro and zerg has no answer to thors on the ground or in the air. if thors are spread just surround with zergling if they are in a attack with ultras? ultra-ling is still an amazing unit mix. mix some banes and bio is also done | ||
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:14 HiHiByeBye wrote: hmmm if you watch GSL game 3 cool vs top Top had about 10-11 thors? and it died to about 7 ultras and cool only lost maybe 1 ultra? and that is balanced? terran had no counter to ultras from the ground. Now they are more on even grounds. Zerglings are so cost effective vs thors. Now zerg is forced to have a unit mix instead of just winning by massing ultras and zergs are crying about this? Stimmed mauraders? They can kite ultras pretty easily. | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
On September 29 2010 00:16 JustPlay wrote: Except now thors muder ultralisks with even the slightest bit of micro and zerg has no answer to thors on the ground or in the air. Post some replays maybe to support this claim? all i see is whining, and no factual evidence or actual gameplay | ||
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kasuya
Spain95 Posts
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