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TvP 3-1-2 build.

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Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 06:28:52
September 01 2010 06:07 GMT
#1
Background
Alright this guide will teach you the art of one base play, and more importantly a very useful build to add to your arsenal. This is a 1 marine 3 marauder 1 hellion poke that transitions into an army built from a total of 3 raxes, 2 starports, 1 factory. This idea was taken partly from TLO but is a build I have refined quite a bit.

First Poke
The first "poke" comes in the early game. This is very similar to the 1 marine, two marauder, 1 reaper play, however this consists of 1 marine, 3 marauders, and 1 hellion at around the exact same timing.

This simple poke in with 5 units can end the game many times vs a greedy protoss, but it will at the very least let you know exactly what you're opponent is up to(by seeing what he is defending with). Watch replay or try it yourself to see just how effective it can be.

Transition
This build starts off as a 1-1-1, where you build 1 rax(marine then techlab), one factory, than one starport when money allows. After you're 3rd marauder pops out as part of the early poke-in, throw down a starport, then two more raxes(you should be attacking at this point w/ your inital 5 units).

Begin a raven asap, throwdown a second starport when raven is around 30-50% done, then a techlab onto the factory. Around this time your initial 5 units will either be dead, near dead, or have won you the game.

Push
After the 5 unit poke-in is finished you should now be at 3 raxes, 2 starports, and 1 factory , as well as having a raven out or almost out. Because terran is imbalanced, you can actually support all 6 buildings, so just start to pump out triple marine, double banshee, and single hellion.

When your two banshees pop out, it is time to push. Usually this two banshee, one raven, mass marine, and a pinch of hellions will win you the game if you do it right(until higher diamond at least). A well placed pdd will make it impossible for him to engage you. The only weakness to this first push is that you want to engage protoss at his base to make the pdd really strong, an open field will just allow toss to retreat. Waiting for 4 banshees will result in a much larger push and is a smarter idea in some circumstances.

What to do after

Two choices, either expand while attacking, or just continue to rally more units, either is very viable. If you choose to expand build another raven to lock down your natural to future counter attack. If you choose to just continue to rally, your goal should be to plant down a point-defense-drone at his ramp so you can bust it(he will be forced to fall back from it).

Why this is strong.
In one sentence. You are producing out of SIX structures relatively early in the game, your army count will be ridiculously high.

The first raven nullfies all stalkers, as well as allows you to snipe observers/defend dt rushes.

Let's do a little theory crafting here. Gateway units that shoot up are sentries and stalkers. Sentries have very little dps are are support units in general, whereas stalkers can't do anything about early game pdd(due to the low unit count). Zealots have a ton of hp and do a ton of damage, but with marines and hellions a little bit of scoot and shoot micro can melt them pretty quickly. Immortals aren't too big of a problem because you are not making a single armoured ground unit.

This build even defeats void rays with relative ease for three reasons. One being that you are massing marines. Two being that this means he has a weak gateway army making it nearly impossible for stalkers to even hit the banshees(due to pdd) and hellions will be there to take care of zealots. Three being the fact that if you scout or think there is an early stargate, you have two starports ready to pump vikings(same response to phoenix).

When you should use this build.
Because this build starts off with the standard 10 sup, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15 orbital, you will be able to scout your opponent before deciding whether or not you want to use it. Close positions or two player maps are good choices.

Does it really work?
I'm a 1.1k diamond terran and have been using this almost exclusively on the ladder, I can say I am winning about 80% of my TvPs with it. Try it yourself and see! Also played two 800+ diamond protosses on the CEVO tournament and went 4-0 with it there.

Build Order
Near perfect timing vs a bronze noob!
From this replay note the following timings:
-hellion catching up to your poke force
-concussive finishes just as you are about to attack
-raven finishes just as second starport is going into the add-on
-3 rax 1 fact 2 port production begins with a good flow
+ Show Spoiler +

-10 Supply Depot
-12 Barracks
-13 Gas
-15 Orbital Command Center
-16 Marine
-16 Supply Depot
-16 Tech Lab
-19 Marauder
-Factory
-Refinery
-Marauder
-Supply <-VERY IMPORTANT DEPOT, YOU MISS THIS YOU GET NO HELLION!
-Marauder
-Concussive
-Hellion <- ITS POKE TIME!

Then in this order, not including supply depots/units.
-Starport
-Rax
-Rax
-Starport
-Techlab(on factory to be added to second port)




Replays

I'll add more later.
epic fail first raven push, but still won one-sidely
Scrap station, no poke due to distance, but same idea, open field pdd.
xel naga, no poke due to early aggression, caught off guard by voids, VERY UNREFINED HERE
5 unit poke auto win vs 1 gate robo on steps
1.1k diamond protoss, fast templar attempt fail, CROSS POSITION METALOPOLIS
Lose everything to 3 gate robo+stargate, no problem.
1k toss, gaining advantage with poke
1k diamond toss, all-in w/ scvs


2-1-3 w fast CC

3-1-2 vs 1.2k toss
3-1-2 vs 1.2k toss, good use of templar/micro to beat it
3-1-2 vs 1k diamond, no poke due to agression
long game vs 1.4k toss
tetramaster
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada253 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 06:14:11
September 01 2010 06:13 GMT
#2
inb4 everyone else starts screaming OMG TERRAN IS IMBA (but ugh, yikes, I'm going to hate seeing this crap on the ladder on short distance maps)

I'm...really not sure what the hell I'd do against this. One base collosus might work, but that's a pretty big 'might', seeing as ravens null stalkers, which would deal with the banshees. That would come down to micro big time on the 'toss part.
threehundred
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada911 Posts
September 01 2010 06:14 GMT
#3
i like the poke idea. i've been playing 1-1-1 too lately and need some sort of poke indeed
KimTaeyeon MEDIC MU fighting! ^^;;
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16973 Posts
September 01 2010 06:16 GMT
#4
Just a quick clarification:

The add-ons on the buildings are one tech lab on barracks, and two tech labs on the starports, right? Nothing else?
Moderator
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 06:17:57
September 01 2010 06:17 GMT
#5
On September 01 2010 15:16 Empyrean wrote:
Just a quick clarification:

The add-ons on the buildings are one tech lab on barracks, and two tech labs on the starports, right? Nothing else?


The tech lab on the rax get's used for the starport since you stop marauder production. You should have a total of two tech labs from 6 buildings(the second being build on the factory to be swapped into the 2nd starport).
Eeeegor
Profile Joined April 2005
Australia809 Posts
September 01 2010 06:23 GMT
#6
Interesting - will have to try this on ladder tonight!
Day9 Made Me Do It
DreXxiN
Profile Joined July 2010
United States494 Posts
September 01 2010 06:24 GMT
#7
..This sounds scary against EVERYTHING!
Eeeegor
Profile Joined April 2005
Australia809 Posts
September 01 2010 06:27 GMT
#8
Thinking about it more - I like the idea of expanding after your first real push (not the poke), and throwing add-ons onto the buildings. A quick way to bring your production up to spend the extra money from the expo... interesting!
Day9 Made Me Do It
panda_inc
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia170 Posts
September 01 2010 06:57 GMT
#9
sound like the only way to beat this is sneaking up a hidden early gas expo while fending off early poke off 1 chrono gate - 3 warp gate, then rushing HTs or Carriers
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
September 01 2010 07:44 GMT
#10
On September 01 2010 15:57 panda_inc wrote:
sound like the only way to beat this is sneaking up a hidden early gas expo while fending off early poke off 1 chrono gate - 3 warp gate, then rushing HTs or Carriers

Whattttt? It's a strong build but not unbeatable. Just standard play with good defense and knowledge of the build will beat it or good phoenix/sentry play.
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
September 01 2010 07:49 GMT
#11
sounds liek a strong build. if it is as successful as it sounds then maybe it'll reduce the amount of mmmg games i see these days
Forever ZeNEX.
Chunkybuddha
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada347 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 07:57:07
September 01 2010 07:56 GMT
#12
Oooo thank you thank you. I always do this two starport build, but I had no idea how to use it as well as you do. MOAR REPLAYS PUHLEZZ

Edit: I wish the standard post was laid out like yours is, shoot very ez to read. Good post.
USER WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED FOR THIS POST.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
September 01 2010 08:00 GMT
#13
Sounds like storm could wreck your day. What would be your response if you scouted a P rushing for psi storm?

also 6 structures off 1 base? all in
Writer
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 08:27:54
September 01 2010 08:01 GMT
#14
On September 01 2010 16:56 Chunkybuddha wrote:
Oooo thank you thank you. I always do this two starport build, but I had no idea how to use it as well as you do. MOAR REPLAYS PUHLEZZ

Edit: I wish the standard post was laid out like yours is, shoot very ez to read. Good post.

I didn't save my replays T_T have to actually play games to get new reps up. I have a few from minerva/cevo but that was b4 I refined it into the 5 unit poke->1 raven timing push->transition.

TY though =]

On September 01 2010 17:00 Kiante wrote:
Sounds like storm could wreck your day. What would be your response if you scouted a P rushing for psi storm?

also 6 structures off 1 base? all in

It is impossible to get to storm without dying to the 1 raven 2 banshee push, plus what kind of protoss would blindly rush for templar(which would mean no robo). So if I did scout a P rushing for psi storm I would do a barrel roll.

It's not all in there is an expand timing if you read the thread. Not to mention that 3 rax 1 fact rine/hellion costs only 250/0 per cycle(very freaking cheap), and banshees take forever to build at 300/200 per cycle. Unit cost wise its cheaper than a protoss going 3 gate robo, do the math.
whiteguycash
Profile Joined April 2010
United States476 Posts
September 01 2010 08:02 GMT
#15
I'll watch the replays, but I think a 12gate cyber with another gate constantly pumping should be enough to stop the initial poke, and depending on the timing of the initial push, for a defending protoss, a FE might be feasable with constant zealot/stalker production to defend. It just comes down to being able to keep the raven from getting off PDD. If the protoss player could hold off your push, he would be way ahead in terms of economy. although, your banshees might prove trouble with cloak.
frogmelter
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States971 Posts
September 01 2010 08:08 GMT
#16
How does this build do against the kcdc fast expand build?
TL+ Member
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
September 01 2010 08:13 GMT
#17
On September 01 2010 17:08 frogmelter wrote:
How does this build do against the kcdc fast expand build?


I think defending the initial push wouldn't be that big of a problem, when the second push comes it really dependent on the toss to be actively scouting, any pressure from the toss that forces the raven to waste its energy before the toss choke and the push fails. The more time you give toss the better toss is going to be imo. passive toss will get owned. i don't know if you get robo after 3 warp gate (if the obs comes in time) to spot the push.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
September 01 2010 08:15 GMT
#18
On September 01 2010 17:02 whiteguycash wrote:
I'll watch the replays, but I think a 12gate cyber with another gate constantly pumping should be enough to stop the initial poke, and depending on the timing of the initial push, for a defending protoss, a FE might be feasable with constant zealot/stalker production to defend. It just comes down to being able to keep the raven from getting off PDD. If the protoss player could hold off your push, he would be way ahead in terms of economy. although, your banshees might prove trouble with cloak.

You do realize the poke is a POKE not a way to win the game. If the protoss holds it off it doesn't matter, the whole purpose is really just a "technical" scouting force with the possibility to do some good damage. If its defended by only gateway units terran will know that toss went 2 gate before robo or stargate. if its defended by a fast immortal terran will know toss went 1 gate robo, etc.

You can't FE vs this with only zealots on stalkers. A PDD on your natural will be an automatic gg, while marine/hellions kite your zels. Unit count will be too low to defend first raven push.

nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 01 2010 08:18 GMT
#19
I have faced this a lot lately like every single terran does this lol(BTW shouldn't this be 3/1/2???).I open phoenixes all my pvt-s so it's kind of easier to handle though .The only thing that is really problematic here is that even if terran is making vikings the tech labs have the same glow as if it is upgrading so you always have to assume he is getting cloack :/.
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
September 01 2010 08:20 GMT
#20
On September 01 2010 17:15 superbabosheki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 17:02 whiteguycash wrote:
I'll watch the replays, but I think a 12gate cyber with another gate constantly pumping should be enough to stop the initial poke, and depending on the timing of the initial push, for a defending protoss, a FE might be feasable with constant zealot/stalker production to defend. It just comes down to being able to keep the raven from getting off PDD. If the protoss player could hold off your push, he would be way ahead in terms of economy. although, your banshees might prove trouble with cloak.

You do realize the poke is a POKE not a way to win the game. If the protoss holds it off it doesn't matter, the whole purpose is really just a "technical" scouting force with the possibility to do some good damage. If its defended by only gateway units terran will know that toss went 2 gate before robo or stargate. if its defended by a fast immortal terran will know toss went 1 gate robo, etc.

You can't FE vs this with only zealots on stalkers. A PDD on your natural will be an automatic gg, while marine/hellions kite your zels. Unit count will be too low to defend first raven push.



That'd not his point. If you push towards protoss and force them to either back off or use a pdd the major threat of this build is nullified.

Not saying it's a bad build or anything, but that's something to bear in mind with your execution.
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