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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
SC2 Map Balance Part 1 - The Worst of the Worst
I will be writing several articles on the balance of various things in SC2 and I decided that the first one would have to be map balance. This will be an objective look at the theory and practice of the balance of the current set of SC2 maps in the Zerg matchups. I cannot, at this time, discuss TvP balance for these maps, simply because I haven't kept up on the matchup enough.
A big thanks to IdrA, who helped a ton in the creation of this article!
PLEASE NOTE #1: This article addresses only top-level play. Balance is impossible to properly address at lower levels because there are so many other factors to consider when looking at that level of play.
PLEASE NOTE #2: I will be ignoring Mech vs Zerg. Properly played Mech is a very powerful strategy that is not yet fully understood which means it skews map and balance analysis in general, so we will discuss non-mech balance when talking about ZvT in this article.
The Worst of the Worst
KULAS RAVINE - This map is certainly one of the worst three balanced maps out of our current map pool, and may in fact be the least-balanced for Zerg.
ZvT - Zerg vs Terran on this map is a constant battle up-hill. Let's look at the various problems in the map's architecture that contributes to this.
Short rush distance, long scout distance-
While Kulas has reasonably short rush distances it actually has very slow scouting for Zerg. The other four player maps have close air positions, meaning your overlord scout eliminates a base quickly, but on Kulas, this isn't the case. This makes fast expanding az Zerg much more risky, as you are less likely to see bunker rush or reaper builds in time. This is not imbalanced itself, but it puts Zerg in an uncomfortable position that makes dealing with subsequent pressure much more difficult.
Wide-open natural expansion, long distance from main hatchery to expansion hatchery-
The natural expansion of Kulas lacks a single, defensible choke point. This makes spine crawlers nearly useless, especially when combined with the fact that it takes two full creep tumors to reach from the main base to the main entrance. This makes that entrance very hard to defend early on with Queens, due to their slow speed off creep and roaches, due to the width of the choke. When you put this all together, Zerg lacks a solid way to defend early rushes, particularly from Hellion-based builds.
Large ledge behind natural expansion-
The ledge behind the natural expansion can cause huge problems for Zerg. The size of the ledge makes Thor drops very powerful, as the Thor has plenty of space to avoid Roaches, Hydras and Spine Crawlers, while chasing off spotting Overlords. Because of the necessity of guarding the wide open natural expansion during the early game, it's often not possible to kill the rocks leading to the high ground, leaving the Zerg vulnerable until they are finally able to kill the rocks.
Poor map circulation, no wide-open spaces-
All of Kulas Ravine is cramped and tight, with high ground all over. A standard Zerg army needs a lot of room to allow for proper flanking on attacks. Army movement becomes impossible with a couple well-placed high ground siege tanks or a Marine/Marauder/Medivac ball in the center of the map, due to DPS of the Terran units and Zerg's inability to flank or surround the army.
ZvP - Zerg vs Protoss here is very similar to Zerg vs Terran.
Short rush distance, long scout distance-
The same reasons that make Terran Reaper and bunker rushes powerful allow to Protoss to easily two gate on this map to put heavy pressure on the Zerg's early expansion. This, by itself, is not a source of imbalance. But when taken into consideration witha ll of the other threats faced by Zerg early game, it becomes overpowered.
Wide-open natural expansion-
One of the main problems on this map, in both matchups, is defending strong, early attacks. The wide-open natural makes defending a Warp Gate rush very difficult, as it allows Protoss to simply avoid Spine Crawlers and this is compounded by the multiple backdoor entrances.
Large ledge behind natural expansion-
This point must be taken WITH the above point to show why the map is just so difficult in ZvP. A rush to Warp Prism provides Protoss with fast Stalkers on the Zerg's ledge. How do the Zerg defend this? They certainly can't break down the wall in time, Stalkers out-range all early Zerg units and are thus capable of preventing mining for a very long time. Using Spine Crawlers is not a real answer, because of the above mentioned wide-open natural. If your Spine Crawlers are defending your mineral line, Protoss may simply attack from another angle as soon as Warp Gates finish. This ledge is also deadly, even if you live through the early Protoss assault. A very fast Collosus can wreak havok on your expansion with astounding speed. As with two Gate and Warp Gate rushes it is possible to defend these tactics, they are not by themeselves imbalanced, it's the fact that Zerg must prepare for all these potential threats that becomes a problem.
DESERT OASIS - People have hated this map since day one of the beta. It was the first map to be taken out of many tournaments due to imbalance, as many people felt it too Zerg-favored.
ZvP - Zerg vs Protoss is a matchup that I cannot discuss in great deal on this map. The map looks like it would be Mutalisk heaven... if the game ever got to that point. Because of the map's size, the main bases' orientation and the distances from main to neutral, Protoss players almost always Warp Gates all-in on this map. Nearly every high-level game consists of Protoss attempting to hit Zerg before Hydralisks come out, force field the ramp and kill the natural. So few games have lasted beyond this scenario that I feel the actual balance of this matchup cannot be discussed.
ZvT - Zerg vs Terran on this map is hugely imbalanced, perhaps more imbalanced than on any other map. Zerg simply cannot defeat Terran here. Let's go over the reasons why.
Distance from main base to natural-
This map, like Kulas, takes two full creep tumors to reach the entrance to the main base. This makes any Queen-based defense very difficult. The distance from the main Hatchery to the expansion Hatchery also makes defense against either Reaper tech or Hellion tech nearly impossible. A very fast Reaper rush OR lots of early Hellions can render your natural expansion useless or dead.
Read the rest of the Article here!
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i laff at this cause imo desert oasis was the best map for zvt
u cant play mech turtle cause of all the open areas and huge distances to everywhere and u cant make good timing pushes cause of the long distances
i think its safe to say all the maps r insanely imbalanced, cmon here they r blizzard maps. do u really expect the first maps made to be good at all?
mech works just like mech in sc1, u kill tons of units compared to the unit cost, short distances and small areas favors mech play, destination, stepps of war
u cant play bio in tvz, so ur basically just talking about bio mech which is too little to talk about balance for imo
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youre right, Desert Oasis is really a bad map. imo the worst.
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Desert oasis is hated by players but thats where most of the epic TvP and ZvT's come from.
No pain no gain..
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so uh.. this is just an article saying that zerg has a hard time on 3 maps?
What about the other races? did imbalance working against them cease to exist?
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Yeah... it seems like mech on Desert Oasis would get wrecked.
I mean hellions are annoying, sure, but mutalisks are so good on this map that Terran really needs to invest in a lot of AA.
I don't quite understand your reasoning for ZvP on Oasis. Warp gate all-ins aren't easy for toss with the super long rush distance and Zerg's ability to really put up spine crawlers like crazy when they see forces build up. It is so easy to get vision on this map as Zerg that losing to warp gate all-ins has to be a blunder on the Zerg's part.
And incineration zone is Terran everything. Huge cliffs make reaper harass amazingly effective, and tanks can be defended easily.
I'd love to see a write up for Scrap Station, as I have a lot of trouble on that map.
Also, any maps that are bad for terran? Metalopolis seems like the worst for them.
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remember, sc2, like any game, is about adapting
think outside the box. not what "is", but what "could be"
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On June 19 2010 20:20 MorroW wrote:
i laff at this cause imo desert oasis was the best map for zvt
u cant play mech turtle cause of all the open areas and huge distances to everywhere and u cant make good timing pushes cause of the long distances
i think its safe to say all the maps r insanely imbalanced, cmon here they r blizzard maps. do u really expect the first maps made to be good at all?
mech works just like mech in sc1, u kill tons of units compared to the unit cost, short distances and small areas favors mech play, destination, stepps of war
u cant play bio in tvz, so ur basically just talking about bio mech which is too little to talk about balance for imo
Bit rich for a Terran player to comment on balance.
Terran are so utterly overpowered and broken at the moment that its pretty ridiculous for you not to be winning every single MU on every single Map.
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i kinda agree that almost all of the blizzard maps in sc2 is bad, but there is always something you can do! just because kulas ravine is not good for early expanding as zerg its not impossible to win.. i had some succes with one base muta or a late hidden expansion .. but ye im looking forward to new and better maps
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Germany767 Posts
I agree on many points about Kulas and Incineration zone. (Even though Incineration zone does not really have to be discussed anymore. Everyone knows that it is a shit map)
Hm... I can not agree with your opinion of Desert Oasis.
Imo it is a great map, maybe my favourite in all matchups. I see big concerns with ZvP, because Zerg might be too strong there unless they change the map a little (destructable rocks at the narrow choke of the natural).
But how can really say Zerg can not win in ZvT there.
Thor drop: You basicly only need zerglings to hold this off, just for the minerals of the Dropship + thor you get 16 Zerglings, as long as you have some queens Terran wont be able to do a lot of damage and then your Roaches, Hydras, Mutas or Infestors will get ready. And really any of this stops thor drops.
Fast Viking: I see it as a very powerful build on Kulas Ravine, but on Desert Oasis Vikings are not really very good after the early midgame. They are so uneffecient in ground combat (do not forget they got nerfed) that it will prevent Terran from "expanding with impunity".
Because of the lack of Hellion ground force, Zerg will be able to spread creep to both the 3rd expansion and the gold base around the 10 minute mark. And unless the Terran is super vigilant you can even spread creep to the middle from your main, using an overlord and a creep tumor from your main. Which suddendly gives you such a mobile army that you gain complete map control. There is almost no map better suited for Zergling Roach Infestor into ultralisk (might have to get a few hydras too if the Terran is very air heavy...)
Third base placement: I basicly covered that with my last point. Because Terran can not be too agressive with ground forces you can spread your creep very fast, making the effective distances to your 3rd and 4th base very short.
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On June 19 2010 20:27 Percutio wrote:
Yeah... it seems like mech on Desert Oasis would get wrecked.
I mean hellions are annoying, sure, but mutalisks are so good on this map that Terran really needs to invest in a lot of AA.
I don't quite understand your reasoning for ZvP on Oasis. Warp gate all-ins aren't easy for toss with the super long rush distance and Zerg's ability to really put up spine crawlers like crazy when they see forces build up. It is so easy to get vision on this map as Zerg that losing to warp gate all-ins has to be a blunder on the Zerg's part.
I just can't stop myself from disagreeing with this..
With mech see TLO vs SEN game 6 kaspersky cup
And desert oasis is like the warpgate all-in heaven.. You have lot of places to hide those pylons on the edges..
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see tlo also disagrees with desert oasis opinion. no offense here but i simply think its wrong to disregard my opinions just because im a terran user. i do think its t>z on majority of the maps but im being honest here and artosis isnt so much in shape to say how things are with the balance at the moment. dont u remember how he was in sc1 with terran? hes always overdoing these balance issues to defend his own race and thats why i cant take this interview seriously. all i see in this interview is how bad zerg is
if all maps end up t>z maybe it shouldnt be a map balance article
out of the entire map pool id say only lost temple and metalopolis are half-decent, rest r just totally bogus. and i find both these maps t>z too so again i dont think we should be making map articles as long as all maps favor terran lol .,.
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I think Kulas could be fixed if the natural mineral line would be below the destructible rock expansion (on the opposite side of the road).
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On June 19 2010 20:40 MorroW wrote:
see tlo also disagrees with desert oasis opinion. no offense here but i simply think its wrong to disregard my opinions just because im a terran user. i do think its t>z on majority of the maps but im being honest here and artosis isnt so much in shape to say how things are with the balance at the moment. dont u remember how he was in sc1 with terran? hes always overdoing these balance issues to defend his own race and thats why i cant take this interview seriously. all i see in this interview is how bad zerg is
if all maps end up t>z maybe it shouldnt be a map balance article
Artosis is baller in all but i remember one of his suggestions on tvz was.You shouldent be allowed to have ultralisk and darkswarm in the same game. That made me laugh even tho its insanely powerful and hard for the terran 2 deal with so i understand where hes coming from 
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On June 19 2010 20:40 Brokengamer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 20:27 Percutio wrote:
Yeah... it seems like mech on Desert Oasis would get wrecked.
I mean hellions are annoying, sure, but mutalisks are so good on this map that Terran really needs to invest in a lot of AA.
I don't quite understand your reasoning for ZvP on Oasis. Warp gate all-ins aren't easy for toss with the super long rush distance and Zerg's ability to really put up spine crawlers like crazy when they see forces build up. It is so easy to get vision on this map as Zerg that losing to warp gate all-ins has to be a blunder on the Zerg's part. I just can't stop myself from disagreeing with this.. With mech see TLO vs SEN game 6 kaspersky cupAnd desert oasis is like the warpgate all-in heaven.. You have lot of places to hide those pylons on the edges..
So just because Sen lost on Desert Oasis - which he did because of 2 huge blunders (not scouting proxy fax and letting hellions into his main) the map is imbalanced :/
you can so easily scout all the places on desert oasis with 4 zerglings if you aren't just to lazy to do it. And saying a map is bad for zerg because many Protoss think you can only win using an all-in strategy seems rather strange.
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Doesn't anyone else think the ZvP dessert oasis analysis is flawed? I mean, when nearly every P plays an all-in strategy the most plausible explanation is that P can't win in a longer macro game on this map.
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I've only read the Kulas Ravine part but have some opinions on that. I definitely agree there should be only one path leading to the natural instead of the two. However, as for long scouting distance, I'm sure other maps in the future will have bases spread far out as well. That mixes up viable strategies and changes the gameplay. People also seem to forget about the natural that is blocked off by destructible rocks. Who says zerg has to FE on Kulas Ravine to their open natural? If you're worried about the harassment on the ledge or the double choke, delay your expo enough to take out the rocks and safely mine from there.
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I am a noob but can't the problem with two creep tumors be solved by using the second overlord to generate creep? Or do you need it to scout?
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On June 19 2010 20:55 perbarian wrote:
I am a noob but can't the problem with two creep tumors be solved by using the second overlord to generate creep? Or do you need it to scout?
Generate creep is lair tech
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On June 19 2010 21:05 Woyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2010 20:55 perbarian wrote:
I am a noob but can't the problem with two creep tumors be solved by using the second overlord to generate creep? Or do you need it to scout? Generate creep is lair tech
Doh.. now I feel pretty dumb. Though, thanks for the info!
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EPT
