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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
He's been getting a reputation, less so than Idra though, about complaining that Zerg is too weak. I think too many people took this as another "omg another zerg whinefest" without actually bothering to open their minds a little, and had that perspective while reading the entire article. Think Artosis should have started with maps that favour Zerg, so people realise that he can do something else. | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
If you actually read the article, you would realize, I did not say anything about Zerg being too weak or underpowered. If you actually read the article, you would realize, that more articles are coming, ones on the maps that are "OK" and "GOOD" for Zerg. Perhaps I should have known that a bunch of flamers would come in and started with the good Zerg maps. Calling me biased because I disagree with you on a single map's balance, and personally flaming me, seems a bit rough, doesn't it? Obviously things can/will change over time. A ton of thought, discussion, and thousands of games vs some of the best players in the world, went into the creation of this article. I haven't seen any other top players produce an article like this. Now I doubt we ever will. They will just get flamed. I've given everyone a straight view into what IdrA and I, (two of the top Zerg players), are thinking on these 3 maps in SC2. You may disagree. To flame me, call my article garbage, call me biased, flame me personally, say that I only play 1 style and want everything to fit into that (complete BS btw), or any of the other ridiculous things I've seen in this thread, is something that should not be done. The SC community has always been the greatest community in eSports. No question. Everyone agrees with that. But, this thread feels like the CS community, not the SC community. | ||
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WhistlingMtn
United States190 Posts
On June 21 2010 10:11 Artosis wrote: The SC community has always been the greatest community in eSports. No question. Everyone agrees with that. But, this thread feels like the CS community, not the SC community. buh-zing! Seriously though, it feels like quite a few posts these days are people setting up or defending their SC2 egos before the game is even released. If you truly believe anything you write, which I assume you do, I wouldn't worry to much about any reply stating your bias. Either you'll be right or wrong in time, but your opinion will be valid regardless as you've been around forever and live at the heart of it. | ||
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ArtZ
49 Posts
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On June 21 2010 10:11 Artosis wrote: The SC community has always been the greatest community in eSports. No question. Everyone agrees with that. But, this thread feels like the CS community, not the SC community. Do you think "Zerg can't defeat Terran on Desert Oasis" is an unbiased and critically thought-out statement? Do you think that a month before the game is released, anyone has enough knowledge to say this? | ||
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Adsee
United States221 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:02 iEchoic wrote: Do you think "Zerg can't defeat Terran on Desert Oasis" is an unbiased and critically thought-out statement? Do you think that a month before the game is released, anyone has enough knowledge to say this? Still though, its just his opinion on the worst maps to play zerg on. Anyways, I found the article an interesting read, even though I don't entirely agree with it (Desert Oasis is one of the best Zerg maps). Its always nice to find other peoples opinions on certain matters. | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:02 iEchoic wrote: Do you think "Zerg can't defeat Terran on Desert Oasis" is an unbiased and critically thought-out statement? Do you think that a month before the game is released, anyone has enough knowledge to say this? I go into great detail as to why we feel this way. Our win %'s on this map for ZvT are even worse than Incineration Zone. Now I have a question for you. Do you think that all of your flames throughout this thread are called for? As for "does anyone have enough knowledge to say this?", I've stated several times, that this is a window into what we are experiencing. I guess, really, I just shouldn't write articles and contribute to the community then? Your thoughts? | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:11 Artosis wrote: I go into great detail as to why we feel this way. Our win %'s on this map for ZvT are even worse than Incineration Zone. Now I have a question for you. Do you think that all of your flames throughout this thread are called for? As for "does anyone have enough knowledge to say this?", I've stated several times, that this is a window into what we are experiencing. I guess, really, I just shouldn't write articles and contribute to the community then? Your thoughts? You definitely don't deserve to get flamed! U rock! I think what we are seeing here is a case of a whole communities SCII withdrawals. | ||
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Depops
Australia101 Posts
On June 21 2010 10:11 Artosis wrote: This is what I thought as soon as I read the article. Few people have done more for the foreign SC community than Artosis and he gets a ton of respect for it. But there's a fly in the ointment, he complains about imbalance more than most of his peers. This isn't a damning offense, but it doesn't help when he comes out with an episodic article about map balance and starts with the ugliest section.Perhaps I should have known that a bunch of flamers would come in and started with the good Zerg maps. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:11 Artosis wrote: Now I have a question for you. Do you think that all of your flames throughout this thread are called for?. I guess, really, I just shouldn't write articles and contribute to the community then? Your thoughts? I've never flamed you, and it's really irritating how whenever anyone has criticism of your articles, you go on the defensive and say "well maybe I shouldn't just help the community" then (or sometimes attack their post count). It's really immature. I just posted two fair questions that were not personal attacks in any way and you acted like I physically hurt you. Everyone knows that strategy evolves throughout the lifespan of a game. Right now we're a month away from the game releasing. Do you not understand how short-sighted that statement is (saying a matchup on a map is unbeatable)? | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:13 Depops wrote: This is what I thought as soon as I read the article. Few people have done more for the foreign SC community than Artosis and he gets a ton of respect for it. But there's a fly in the ointment, he complains about imbalance more than most of his peers. This isn't a damning offense, but it doesn't help when he comes out with an episodic article about map balance and starts with the ugliest section. That actually isn't true. What is true, is that I am more vocal, more helping, to the community. I write more, I discuss more, I try to help more, than the vast majority of top players. I am extremely truthful about my thoughts, as I think they offer good insight. | ||
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:20 w_Ender_w wrote: It's not supposed to be unbiased; Do you understand what the word 'objective' means? Edit: Objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations | ||
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:14 iEchoic wrote: I've never flamed you, and it's really irritating how whenever anyone has criticism of your articles, you go on the defensive and say "well maybe I shouldn't just help the community" then (or sometimes attack their post count). It's really immature. I just posted two fair questions that were not personal attacks in any way and you acted like I physically hurt you. Everyone knows that strategy evolves throughout the lifespan of a game. Right now we're a month away from the game releasing. Do you not understand how short-sighted that statement is (saying a matchup on a map is unbeatable)? you do realize that your response to me asking you why you flame me, is to infact, flame me again? I've stated so many times, more than anyone, how much games evolve. These things most likely WILL change in time. This is a window into right now. stop posting in this thread please, you are one of the people who have really ruined it. take your reality elsewhere. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Rabbet
Canada404 Posts
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:21 iEchoic wrote: Do you understand what the word 'objective' means? Edit: Objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations What do you want him to change in order for it to be more objective in your eyes? Do you want him to not draw any conclusions from what he has seen? Then why make the article? Do you want him to address the positives of the map as well? That's not a part of the article, nor was it written to do so. He's going to write later ones about the pro's of certain maps. Do you want him to address the other races? This is about Zerg only. Do you want him to talk about build orders? The only build orders he mentions are to expressly un-include them from the balance discussion. If you don't like the article, don't read it. Some of us like to hear from the pro's. It's an opinion, it's not dead fact that you have to believe merely because he wrote it. It's nice to be able to get inside the head of people that play this game at a high level. Half these posts in this thread serve NO other purpose then to drive professional players away from interacting with the community. Good work people. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:22 Artosis wrote: you do realize that your response to me asking you why you flame me, is to infact, flame me again? I didn't flame you anywhere in my entire post  If I'm being out of line, I'd love for someone to tell me where in my post I flamed you, because I'm looking for it and I just can't find it.Obviously this is going nowhere, so I'll stop arguing with you. But when 3/4ths of the people in the thread are pretty much saying that your bias is getting really tiring, you should actually consider it instead of just going on the defensive or attack peoples' post counts. On June 21 2010 11:27 w_Ender_w wrote: What do you want him to change in order for it to be more objective in your eyes? Do you want him to not draw any conclusions from what he has seen? Then why make the article? I actually just want you to stop saying it's not supposed to be unbiased. | ||
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On June 21 2010 11:27 iEchoic wrote: I actually just want you to stop saying it's not supposed to be unbiased. You can not have an opinion about something you do and you have observed that is truly unbiased. Of course there is bias. It's inherent in an article written FOR a specific group about specific concerns that only the group will care about. I'll make a deal. I'll stop saying the word unbiased for the duration of this thread if you stop what appears to be an otherwise senseless attempt to push away a pro player from being involved with the community. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
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