|
EDIT: All non-functional replays from previous patches have been removed. Since everything I've added up to this point is now useless, I've simply uploaded my entire "unsaved" folder for all to see. I do this strategy nearly every game (though I may skip DTs if I scout something specific) and I don't feel like sorting through all my replays just to have my next replay pack be rendered useless within 4 days, so if you want to find something good you might have to dig a little. So here you go: the good, the bad, and the ugly. (7/23/10)
The Ninja Build: A Brief Guide
The first few weeks of the Starcraft 2 beta were very frustrating for me as a Protoss player. It seemed like the only viable way to tech was to make a Robotics Facility and make lots of Immortals and Collosi. In fact that is mostly all that PvP was for a long time. In PvZ, back before roaches were nerfed, you were forced to make immortals in large numbers. In PvT gateway units were just destroyed with few losses by MMM balls, and they pretty much still are.
Even at this stage of the game I feel like robotics builds are the largely dominate tech branch in any PvX match-up. However, since the Stalker buff, I have been experimenting with building the Twilight Council before my Robotics Facility (and frequently never even making a robotics facility). This works because of Blink, which to me is the most fun ability in the game. However in high level play Blink alone will not win the game, you need a transition, or rather, a compliment to your well-microed Stalkers that will put the nail in the coffin. This is the Dark Templar.
Playing against Protoss, however, this strategy is easily shut down by a quick Robotics and a few Observers with plenty of Immortals, thus it is highly risky, so I will not be focusing so much on the Dark Templar transition when talking about PvP, but only on the early game. Suppose your opponent goes 3-4 gate, or makes some Stargates. When you rush tech to blink and get three of your own Warpgates up, you will have plenty of Stalkers to be able to harass your opponent's army. Because your army is largely composed of stalkers, any forcefields will be wasted on stalkers that can just blink out of the way. Zealots will not be able to surround you either, and any air units are pitifully inefficient against a blinking stalker army. Once you realize your opponent is not making a robotics (heavy pressure from gateway units, or any number of air units), you can transition to Dark Templar and have a reasonable chance of killing him right there. Simply create 2 or more DTs from a proxy pylon and destroy any buildings that may grant him detection (IMPORTANT: using them to defend tips your opponent off and gives him plenty of time to build defense, UNLESS you have units already in his base, which is where Blink comes in; situations like this typically end in a base trade where he cannot kill your units and you simply need to make sure you have buildings still standing and he never gets detection). Should your opponent get a robotics, you will need to get a robotics as well if you plan on using DTs at all. You can then snipe the Observer with Blink and hold off the attacking force a little longer with a couple DTs.
I feel like PvP is the most difficult and riskiest match-up to attempt this. But when you think of how many options Terran has for detection you may wonder why this isn't the most difficult to play. Consider the cost of a scan, by using one DT at a time, you can suck the energy of the Orbital command dry with well scattered Dark Templar. When I am playing a Terran I typically either get a Stargate for Voids or research Hallucination to get vision for harassing with Blink Stalkers. The Stalkers will prompt mass production of Marauders, which will get destroyed by Void Rays. However, it is very difficult to micro Stalker harassment and macro at the same time, which can put you into a tough spot, where your opponent has a significant army and a hurt economy, and you have a decent economy and a small army. The Terran player will typically leave his base to counter, then you can initiate a base swap. Again, DTs here will save your life. The Stalkers need only to destroy the Orbital Command(s) and prevent any Ravens from being produced, then you will only need at least 1 Dark Templar to clean up the mess at your own base (beware of EMP! Target ghosts with DTs and only send one at a time). At this point the Terran can do nothing if you've saved your workers and enough money to rebuild. The "reveal" will help you track down his hidden buildings or if it never happens, let you know he has another Command Center out there.
And Finally, the PvZ matchup, which I feel is the best situation to use this strategy. It is best to wall off your base in this situation to prevent scouting and ling harass. With the Ninja build in this match-up you want to be wary of getting surrounded by speedlings. To prevent this, position your proxy pylons in such a way that allows you to Blink into an area with a tight choke, or stay near high terrain where you have vision. Early Stalkers can end the game quick if your opponent has overproduced Spine Crawlers on their expansion, because you can simply Blink past them and cause so much damage. You primarily want to use your Dark Templar to kill Queens and Hydras, because it is very easy for a Zerg player to replace drones, so you have little time to kill workers because of how quickly Overseers can be made, always attack with Stalkers while using your Dark Templar, because DTs can do very little to Zerg alone. The Blink Stalkers can be used to snipe Overseers, allowing your Dark Templar to two-shot hydras no problem. If your opponent transitions to Muta-ling, make a couple forges, because you will need all the upgrades and cannons you can get. The great part about fighting Mutalisks with Stalkers is you can do some additional damage while chasing them off by using Blink.
In general, if you are to use Dark Templar at all, save your first attack with them when you are in enemy territory, use them in numbers, and spread them out. You will want to get everything you can out of them before the enemy musters up some detection. Use Stalkers to distract your enemy and harrass his economy, snipe anything that wanders off from the group and blink away. Your primary targets are workers, supply, and buildings that offer detection. If you need early vision to see into your opponent's base, hallucination is the cheapest and fastest way to get it. [s]Blinking uphill past rocks is fair game[s], but don't depend on it, since it may be patched in the future. [spoiler]Called it.[/spoiler]
If you are going to attempt the strategy, beware; it is RISKY, DIFFICULT, and HIGHLY micro intensive. If you are going to win, you will win by outmicroing the opponent. One bad Blink, or faulty DT attack and you will be far behind. You may ask, "if it is so difficult to do, then why use your build?" Well, because it is fun, and isn't that why we play Starcraft in the first place? I have been working on this strategy for weeks now, and I'm still having trouble with it. However, it has gotten me all the way up to the 1900 level, so I am confident it has its potential in the right situations.
I plan on expanding on this topic by adding more replays and comments later on. If you would like to watch what I am talking about here live, I will be streaming shortly after posting this. I stream pretty often, you can usually catch me playing at night.
Tozar's LiveStream Tozar's Stream thread on TeamLiquid Download replays in OP (Beta Phase 1 Replays Removed) Replay Pack #1 (14 replays) (Beta Phase 1 Replays Removed) Phase 2 PvZ Ninja Build and Variants (Broken Replays Removed) Random replays. (7/23/10)
|
I do this a lot in PvZ. I actually think it is a pretty good build and doesn't have many counters as long as you hold on to your DTs. With good stalker control you can kill off all detection pretty quickly. It usually results in an instant win if the zerg has < 2 overseers.
Haven't really tried it much in the other MUs. If anything its fun!
|
Very good PvT as well. Scans cost the Ts a lot of minerals and will noticeably delay their expansions. The obvious counters are Ravens and ghosts, both of which get feedback popped really easily. You just have to make sure you send one DT in at a time and cue up worker hits.
|
Sounds like a lot of fun.
Micro oriented builds like this are why I switched to protoss
|
On May 10 2010 11:08 keV. wrote: I do this a lot in PvZ. I actually think it is a pretty good build and doesn't have many counters as long as you hold on to your DTs. With good stalker control you can kill off all detection pretty quickly. It usually results in an instant win if the zerg has < 2 overseers.
Haven't really tried it much in the other MUs. If anything its fun!
It's really good PvZ but you also need to spam cannons everywhere. You'll have extra minerals anyways, and eventually you'll need to transition out. Mass roach will eventually overwhelm you so you need the cannons to secure a 3rd and give yourself safety while your transition.
It definitely is fun and mechanically intensive. I'd recommend this to anyone who wants something fresh.
|
I watched Tozar alot the other night and really picked up on his great stalker micro with blink, this is a staple of any matchup that i do now, and i have really transitioned away from going immortals which i feel are not very mobile and generally you will get overwhelmed by air if you go too many immos.
I don't play anywhere near the level that Tozar does, but i have been able to hold off some really scary roach spam games as protoss that turned into long micro games where i eventually was able to win through a balanced zeal/stalker/colossi army, and lately i have been incorporating psi storm usage as well to keep things interesting. My game has definitely improved overall, and i feel like i am becoming a stronger macro player that wins not by using all in cheese rushes (which is all i did for the first month or so of beta) but by out macro/microing my opponent and waiting for them to make a mistake. Usually in the form of trying too hard to kill an expo which i punish their units for and win with a counter push.
DT's were something i didn't use much until recently, and i think i understand now much better how to use them. Typically i bring them out mid game, not as an "i win because you don't have detection" unit, but more of an easy way to deny workers/expansions. I LOVE the fact that you can one shot workers and it does not alert the player, so unless they are actually looking at their base, you can totally ruin their entire economy off of an expo or 2 with DT.
Again, thanks for the more "unconventional" non immortal ideas and replays, i now feel confident again against zerg of an equal level.
|
I just tried it, and actually watching your stream, I love this build, i can tell it works, not every game, but most games it works quite well. However, don't u think sometimes vs terran instead of just "hoping" he doesn't have turrets, then to tech switch to templars? wouldnt that work better?
|
|
Nice write up!  Seems like everyday I learn something new...
|
|
Man I lost to this shit horribly the other day...
|
Hmm. Interesting option. I started experimenting with Twilight Council builds two weeks ago for fast charge and blink. While they seem to work well against ground-based Terran builds, I have yet to find a way to survive 2-port cloaked banshees from behind a wall in those games where I don't even have a robo started when the banshees show up. The best result I achieved was like the base trade described above where you have DT cleaning up their army in reverse :-(
|
blink+ dt's, you can still use it to exploit the blink bug where you blink pass rocks and use its vision to warp in dts! for those feeling guilty about the bug, I just bring in a warp prism to warp in the dts.
|
On May 10 2010 14:07 Kyadytim wrote: Hmm. Interesting option. I started experimenting with Twilight Council builds two weeks ago for fast charge and blink. While they seem to work well against ground-based Terran builds, I have yet to find a way to survive 2-port cloaked banshees from behind a wall in those games where I don't even have a robo started when the banshees show up. The best result I achieved was like the base trade described above where you have DT cleaning up their army in reverse :-(
same here, this strat works but also has weaknesses and I cant seem to beat banshee rushes..
I guess every strat has its weaknesses. I guess when you can't enter a walled terran it is safer to go robo instead?
|
I just watched you use it a lot on your stream (which is a good stream to watch IMO) and I never realized just how good blink is. I'll have to try this when I get P as Random
|
Damn you! I have been playing around with something similar to this for a while now, however not quite as focused on the DT transition (I use it whenever I spot an opening, and focus more on a starport transition) Now people will be more aware of the thing Thanks anyway though, as I am no where near this level with it
|
On May 10 2010 14:28 phamou wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 14:07 Kyadytim wrote: Hmm. Interesting option. I started experimenting with Twilight Council builds two weeks ago for fast charge and blink. While they seem to work well against ground-based Terran builds, I have yet to find a way to survive 2-port cloaked banshees from behind a wall in those games where I don't even have a robo started when the banshees show up. The best result I achieved was like the base trade described above where you have DT cleaning up their army in reverse :-( same here, this strat works but also has weaknesses and I cant seem to beat banshee rushes.. I guess every strat has its weaknesses. I guess when you can't enter a walled terran it is safer to go robo instead?
Launch an attack as soon as Blink finished researching, if you spot Banshees or the T player is turtling a lot, expect banshees. Get a robo. However it is important to note that Banshees rip Stalkers apart if you mismanage them. I had some trouble with Banshees today on my stream because I was just being out produced and if you are caught for a moment without your obs you can lose the game.
Banshees used to not be an issue for me though, it seems that if you just attack the enemy base with dark templar and stalkers before the banshees get too bad and run your probes, you could pull off a win a lot easier.
It is all situational though, if you catch the Banshees off guard with a Blink, you can really screw your opponent up.
|
Yeah, I actually do this build all the time as well in PvZ and PvT. This build does WONDERS on Blistering Sands: http://www.livestream.com/fobulous/video?clipId=pla_fcf3fe2e-c496-4918-9321-087340580aa2 There's a VOD of me performing it. You do have to be careful while doing it though because you are vunerable to an early aggressive build such as 3rax.
You should note in PvZ, most people will try mass lings vs this. When you still only have stalkers, you'll have to depend on blink and micro to survive this. Once dts are out you should be safe. One transition quite a few zergs do against this is mutaling. That's actually asking for suicide because remember: DTS CAN MORPH INTO ARCHONS. So having stalker dt archon will rape any mutaling build. This build is particulary effective against korean style spinecrawler mutaling builds. It also gets an added boost from using the blink up rocks trick.
|
Banshee play is very obvious when you harass with your first stalker and you force him to make a bunker. Blink stalkers is basically perfect to beat that anyway, you've basically won the build order game, you just need like 2 obs or cannons as well.
|
On May 10 2010 11:28 Opti wrote:I LOVE the fact that you can one shot workers and it does not alert the player, so unless they are actually looking at their base, you can totally ruin their entire economy off of an expo or 2 with DT. It actually does alert..
|
|
|
|