EPT[G] The Ninja Build (Blink + DT) - Page 3
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SurtiC
Canada43 Posts
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
On May 11 2010 00:33 palanq wrote: I tried this build a few times (EDIT: in PvT). pretty tough micro >.< and also important not to lose any stalkers. Being able to deal damage with the stalkers seems very dependent on the map. If you can blink directly into or out of their mineral line, it seems a lot stronger (desert oasis, metalopolis.... a bunch of others if the terran has a fast expo). The proper response to this kind of build I think is fast raven - PDD helps with stalkers if you get into a fight, and detection. If you see the tech for raven as you blink around/scout with fake phoenix, then I think the DT is pretty useless. I think the main point of the DT should be to continue keeping T in his base while you expo; raven negates this. So instead of DT, 2 starports with tech probably means banshee so you need obs, 1 starport with tech probably means raven so you need HT (for feedback) or perhaps chargelots, or perhaps obs anyway? have to be vigilant about scouting in any case of cloaked banshees You might also see marauder, so after DT harass (forcing turrets/raven) then probably best to get chargelots-->storm. Very informative post, my thoughts exactly.  However I am currently very disappointed with the current state of storm. Seems like anyone with decent micro can just dodge it. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:49 Tozar wrote: Very informative post, my thoughts exactly. However I am currently very disappointed with the current state of storm. Seems like anyone with decent micro can just dodge it. Storm straight up needs a buff. It's completely worthless vs zerg since colossi own all zerg ground and storm is worthless vs roaches. I would argue it's not even effective enough vs T or P. 110 damage storms would be perfectly fine to be honest. It was balanced in BW why wouldn't it be balanced here, a game where units actually have MORE hp on average (mara/roach/immortal/coli/thor etc)? | ||
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clik
United States319 Posts
2nd time was a T that was going cloaked banshees from the get go. I had a feeling he was doing but I stuck to the plan, I couldn't get a full scout on it because of the wall. He fended off my blink push with marauders. I was sad. Again I was never scouted. | ||
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Delarchon
Finland132 Posts
Not saying that you have to have 300+ apm to do this but people who can pull this off are good players. If you however start to do this be prepared for vast amount of losses. I tried this and went from plat to gold. Just ain't for me. Atleast not yet. For non-experienced sc players this will cause grief and possibly some nerdrages too. Edit: And in PvP if you see cyber getting CB and there is still probe in your base don't go twilight council. Watch Tozars stream and maybe you'll see why. | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
It's a little easy to get caught in a bad position with a bad blink. This rewards good mechanics and micro and punishes you badly if you don't have awareness. I think it is better to expand to somewhere that isn't your natural (you have map control why the hell not?) so that a Terran base-trade doesn't work. The OP did this on an LT game. Like I've said, I only tried it a few times, but this build seems to be amazing. Wish I came up with it. EDIT: I'll post my reps when I get the chance. EDIT EDIT: Sensor towers make it a little difficult to harass, so that might be a potential soft counter. it still doesn't let the Terran move out of his base very easily, but it doesn't make the harass as devastating. | ||
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
On May 11 2010 12:15 junemermaid wrote: i've only been using this in PvT so far (one aginst the marine/tank/raven build and another vs M/G). Won two games easy (1600 platinum). This strategy is ridiculously effective. I didn't transition into DT, but got immortals instead. It's a little easy to get caught in a bad position with a bad blink. This rewards good mechanics and micro and punishes you badly if you don't have awareness. I think it is better to expand to somewhere that isn't your natural (you have map control why the hell not?) so that a Terran base-trade doesn't work. The OP did this on an LT game. Like I've said, I only tried it a few times, but this build seems to be amazing. Wish I came up with it. EDIT: I'll post my reps when I get the chance. EDIT EDIT: Sensor towers make it a little difficult to harass, so that might be a potential soft counter. it still doesn't let the Terran move out of his base very easily, but it doesn't make the harass as devastating. Good point, I think I may try taking some high yields vs T while using this strategy... BTW I am gonna start streaming now! | ||
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nexusil
United States52 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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Back
Canada505 Posts
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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ScienceRob
United States382 Posts
I will have to remember to get another raven against this strat. Probably after my second banshee. | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
On May 15 2010 01:13 Inori wrote: I've been watching your streams and trying a similar build myself (I emphasize more on Stalker micro (blinking them out 1 by 1 in the heat of battle and harrassing a lot with hallucinated phoenixes and etc) for last 3-4 days and I've come to conclusion that it gets locked down too easy by pretty standart builds from all 3 races. PvP - 3 gate/robo - few Immortals and even with perfect micro on Stalkers in battles I get pwned completely. Plus easy access to obs means DTs won't really do any damage. PvT - Stimmed Marauders/Tanks own Stalkers hard. DTs have a 50/50 chance, but in any case it's only 1 time thing, afterwards he will use scans, have turrets, get ravens etc. PvZ - speedlings/mutas. Sure, blink is good against mutas, but the Zerg just flies around between my main and nat keeping me contained to base and blink cd isn't enough so he gets a few shots off every round. And speedlings just rape my Stalkers even with blink micro. Any ideas on how to get around those problems? Well for PvZ morph those DTs into archons and make tons of them. Make zealots to free up gas and zerg is done for. Mutaling can't beat zeal/archon. | ||
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Back
Canada505 Posts
On May 15 2010 01:13 Inori wrote: I've been watching your streams and trying a similar build myself (I emphasize more on Stalker micro (blinking them out 1 by 1 in the heat of battle and harrassing a lot with hallucinated phoenixes and etc) for last 3-4 days and I've come to conclusion that it gets locked down too easy by pretty standart builds from all 3 races. PvP - 3 gate/robo - few Immortals and even with perfect micro on Stalkers in battles I get pwned completely. Plus easy access to obs means DTs won't really do any damage. PvT - Stimmed Marauders/Tanks own Stalkers hard. DTs have a 50/50 chance, but in any case it's only 1 time thing, afterwards he will use scans, have turrets, get ravens etc. PvZ - speedlings/mutas. Sure, blink is good against mutas, but the Zerg just flies around between my main and nat keeping me contained to base and blink cd isn't enough so he gets a few shots off every round. And speedlings just rape my Stalkers even with blink micro. Any ideas on how to get around those problems? If I understand Tozar's strategy correctly, the point is not to win army battles with superior stalker micro and surprise DTs. Base trading is usually the culmunating point of the blink/DT harrassment. When he moves in to take out your expansion or main, that's when your stalkers go in his main and focus on anything that can provide detection. Once you do this, it doesn't matter that his army comp is 10x stronger, you have invinsible DTs (even if it's just a handful) that can clean up both his base and attacking force. Basically your stalkers army should never go toe-to-toe against any of the compositions you mentioned. When he gets sick of your harrass and goes all in, that's all just part of phase 1. | ||
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The6357
United States1268 Posts
what I do against this buid is..just make 3-4 immortals and mass other gateway units such as stalker,centries, and zealots with couple obs then move out when I'm ready to trade the base since I know his blink stalkers will come in when I move out his ground army simply cannot beat mine and after we base trade I simply make nexus with cannons around it and go kill his new base | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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Tozar
United States245 Posts
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t3tsubo
Canada682 Posts
Best part of the build though IMO is the name. NINJA BUILD FOREVER. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
It's not worth it vs toss unless, again, you keep tabs on him through harass. As a toss player if I see mass stalkers that pretty much means I'm going to counter w/ fast robo or 4-gate, both of which I feel would counter mass stalkers unless you have great micro. If you can hold the 4-gate long enough for DTs it can work, but then you have to pray he doesn't cannon up as well. Generally very risky vs toss IMO. Vs T I think DTs can be very useful in this matchup but usually not game ending like they can be vs zerg. A lot of T seem to go heavy marauder these days and trying to hold off w/ just stalkers is pretty risky. I like going standard robo if I see mass mara and then transition into HTs who I feel are very underused in this matchup. HTs discourages ravens and since you already have the archives it's easy to transition into DTs mid/late game. Hitting an expo w/ DTs right after he drops his mules at his expo can be devastating. | ||
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