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EDIT: All non-functional replays from previous patches have been removed. Since everything I've added up to this point is now useless, I've simply uploaded my entire "unsaved" folder for all to see. I do this strategy nearly every game (though I may skip DTs if I scout something specific) and I don't feel like sorting through all my replays just to have my next replay pack be rendered useless within 4 days, so if you want to find something good you might have to dig a little. So here you go: the good, the bad, and the ugly. (7/23/10)
The Ninja Build: A Brief Guide
The first few weeks of the Starcraft 2 beta were very frustrating for me as a Protoss player. It seemed like the only viable way to tech was to make a Robotics Facility and make lots of Immortals and Collosi. In fact that is mostly all that PvP was for a long time. In PvZ, back before roaches were nerfed, you were forced to make immortals in large numbers. In PvT gateway units were just destroyed with few losses by MMM balls, and they pretty much still are.
Even at this stage of the game I feel like robotics builds are the largely dominate tech branch in any PvX match-up. However, since the Stalker buff, I have been experimenting with building the Twilight Council before my Robotics Facility (and frequently never even making a robotics facility). This works because of Blink, which to me is the most fun ability in the game. However in high level play Blink alone will not win the game, you need a transition, or rather, a compliment to your well-microed Stalkers that will put the nail in the coffin. This is the Dark Templar.
Playing against Protoss, however, this strategy is easily shut down by a quick Robotics and a few Observers with plenty of Immortals, thus it is highly risky, so I will not be focusing so much on the Dark Templar transition when talking about PvP, but only on the early game. Suppose your opponent goes 3-4 gate, or makes some Stargates. When you rush tech to blink and get three of your own Warpgates up, you will have plenty of Stalkers to be able to harass your opponent's army. Because your army is largely composed of stalkers, any forcefields will be wasted on stalkers that can just blink out of the way. Zealots will not be able to surround you either, and any air units are pitifully inefficient against a blinking stalker army. Once you realize your opponent is not making a robotics (heavy pressure from gateway units, or any number of air units), you can transition to Dark Templar and have a reasonable chance of killing him right there. Simply create 2 or more DTs from a proxy pylon and destroy any buildings that may grant him detection (IMPORTANT: using them to defend tips your opponent off and gives him plenty of time to build defense, UNLESS you have units already in his base, which is where Blink comes in; situations like this typically end in a base trade where he cannot kill your units and you simply need to make sure you have buildings still standing and he never gets detection). Should your opponent get a robotics, you will need to get a robotics as well if you plan on using DTs at all. You can then snipe the Observer with Blink and hold off the attacking force a little longer with a couple DTs.
I feel like PvP is the most difficult and riskiest match-up to attempt this. But when you think of how many options Terran has for detection you may wonder why this isn't the most difficult to play. Consider the cost of a scan, by using one DT at a time, you can suck the energy of the Orbital command dry with well scattered Dark Templar. When I am playing a Terran I typically either get a Stargate for Voids or research Hallucination to get vision for harassing with Blink Stalkers. The Stalkers will prompt mass production of Marauders, which will get destroyed by Void Rays. However, it is very difficult to micro Stalker harassment and macro at the same time, which can put you into a tough spot, where your opponent has a significant army and a hurt economy, and you have a decent economy and a small army. The Terran player will typically leave his base to counter, then you can initiate a base swap. Again, DTs here will save your life. The Stalkers need only to destroy the Orbital Command(s) and prevent any Ravens from being produced, then you will only need at least 1 Dark Templar to clean up the mess at your own base (beware of EMP! Target ghosts with DTs and only send one at a time). At this point the Terran can do nothing if you've saved your workers and enough money to rebuild. The "reveal" will help you track down his hidden buildings or if it never happens, let you know he has another Command Center out there.
And Finally, the PvZ matchup, which I feel is the best situation to use this strategy. It is best to wall off your base in this situation to prevent scouting and ling harass. With the Ninja build in this match-up you want to be wary of getting surrounded by speedlings. To prevent this, position your proxy pylons in such a way that allows you to Blink into an area with a tight choke, or stay near high terrain where you have vision. Early Stalkers can end the game quick if your opponent has overproduced Spine Crawlers on their expansion, because you can simply Blink past them and cause so much damage. You primarily want to use your Dark Templar to kill Queens and Hydras, because it is very easy for a Zerg player to replace drones, so you have little time to kill workers because of how quickly Overseers can be made, always attack with Stalkers while using your Dark Templar, because DTs can do very little to Zerg alone. The Blink Stalkers can be used to snipe Overseers, allowing your Dark Templar to two-shot hydras no problem. If your opponent transitions to Muta-ling, make a couple forges, because you will need all the upgrades and cannons you can get. The great part about fighting Mutalisks with Stalkers is you can do some additional damage while chasing them off by using Blink.
In general, if you are to use Dark Templar at all, save your first attack with them when you are in enemy territory, use them in numbers, and spread them out. You will want to get everything you can out of them before the enemy musters up some detection. Use Stalkers to distract your enemy and harrass his economy, snipe anything that wanders off from the group and blink away. Your primary targets are workers, supply, and buildings that offer detection. If you need early vision to see into your opponent's base, hallucination is the cheapest and fastest way to get it. [s]Blinking uphill past rocks is fair game[s], but don't depend on it, since it may be patched in the future.
[spoiler]Called it.[/spoiler]
If you are going to attempt the strategy, beware; it is RISKY, DIFFICULT, and HIGHLY micro intensive. If you are going to win, you will win by outmicroing the opponent. One bad Blink, or faulty DT attack and you will be far behind. You may ask, "if it is so difficult to do, then why use your build?" Well, because it is fun, and isn't that why we play Starcraft in the first place? I have been working on this strategy for weeks now, and I'm still having trouble with it. However, it has gotten me all the way up to the 1900 level, so I am confident it has its potential in the right situations.
I plan on expanding on this topic by adding more replays and comments later on. If you would like to watch what I am talking about here live, I will be streaming shortly after posting this. I stream pretty often, you can usually catch me playing at night.
Tozar's LiveStream
Tozar's Stream thread on TeamLiquid
Download replays in OP (Beta Phase 1 Replays Removed)
Replay Pack #1 (14 replays) (Beta Phase 1 Replays Removed)
Phase 2 PvZ Ninja Build and Variants (Broken Replays Removed)
Random replays. (7/23/10)
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I do this a lot in PvZ. I actually think it is a pretty good build and doesn't have many counters as long as you hold on to your DTs. With good stalker control you can kill off all detection pretty quickly. It usually results in an instant win if the zerg has < 2 overseers.
Haven't really tried it much in the other MUs. If anything its fun!
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Very good PvT as well. Scans cost the Ts a lot of minerals and will noticeably delay their expansions. The obvious counters are Ravens and ghosts, both of which get feedback popped really easily. You just have to make sure you send one DT in at a time and cue up worker hits.
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Sounds like a lot of fun.
Micro oriented builds like this are why I switched to protoss
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On May 10 2010 11:08 keV. wrote:
I do this a lot in PvZ. I actually think it is a pretty good build and doesn't have many counters as long as you hold on to your DTs. With good stalker control you can kill off all detection pretty quickly. It usually results in an instant win if the zerg has < 2 overseers.
Haven't really tried it much in the other MUs. If anything its fun!
It's really good PvZ but you also need to spam cannons everywhere. You'll have extra minerals anyways, and eventually you'll need to transition out. Mass roach will eventually overwhelm you so you need the cannons to secure a 3rd and give yourself safety while your transition.
It definitely is fun and mechanically intensive. I'd recommend this to anyone who wants something fresh.
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I watched Tozar alot the other night and really picked up on his great stalker micro with blink, this is a staple of any matchup that i do now, and i have really transitioned away from going immortals which i feel are not very mobile and generally you will get overwhelmed by air if you go too many immos.
I don't play anywhere near the level that Tozar does, but i have been able to hold off some really scary roach spam games as protoss that turned into long micro games where i eventually was able to win through a balanced zeal/stalker/colossi army, and lately i have been incorporating psi storm usage as well to keep things interesting. My game has definitely improved overall, and i feel like i am becoming a stronger macro player that wins not by using all in cheese rushes (which is all i did for the first month or so of beta) but by out macro/microing my opponent and waiting for them to make a mistake. Usually in the form of trying too hard to kill an expo which i punish their units for and win with a counter push.
DT's were something i didn't use much until recently, and i think i understand now much better how to use them. Typically i bring them out mid game, not as an "i win because you don't have detection" unit, but more of an easy way to deny workers/expansions. I LOVE the fact that you can one shot workers and it does not alert the player, so unless they are actually looking at their base, you can totally ruin their entire economy off of an expo or 2 with DT.
Again, thanks for the more "unconventional" non immortal ideas and replays, i now feel confident again against zerg of an equal level.
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I just tried it, and actually watching your stream, I love this build, i can tell it works, not every game, but most games it works quite well. However, don't u think sometimes vs terran instead of just "hoping" he doesn't have turrets, then to tech switch to templars? wouldnt that work better?
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Nice write up! 
Seems like everyday I learn something new...
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Man I lost to this shit horribly the other day...
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Hmm. Interesting option.
I started experimenting with Twilight Council builds two weeks ago for fast charge and blink. While they seem to work well against ground-based Terran builds, I have yet to find a way to survive 2-port cloaked banshees from behind a wall in those games where I don't even have a robo started when the banshees show up. The best result I achieved was like the base trade described above where you have DT cleaning up their army in reverse :-(
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blink+ dt's, you can still use it to exploit the blink bug where you blink pass rocks and use its vision to warp in dts! for those feeling guilty about the bug, I just bring in a warp prism to warp in the dts.
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On May 10 2010 14:07 Kyadytim wrote:
Hmm. Interesting option.
I started experimenting with Twilight Council builds two weeks ago for fast charge and blink. While they seem to work well against ground-based Terran builds, I have yet to find a way to survive 2-port cloaked banshees from behind a wall in those games where I don't even have a robo started when the banshees show up. The best result I achieved was like the base trade described above where you have DT cleaning up their army in reverse :-(
same here, this strat works but also has weaknesses and I cant seem to beat banshee rushes..
I guess every strat has its weaknesses. I guess when you can't enter a walled terran it is safer to go robo instead?
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I just watched you use it a lot on your stream (which is a good stream to watch IMO) and I never realized just how good blink is. I'll have to try this when I get P as Random 
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Damn you! I have been playing around with something similar to this for a while now, however not quite as focused on the DT transition (I use it whenever I spot an opening, and focus more on a starport transition) Now people will be more aware of the thing  Thanks anyway though, as I am no where near this level with it
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On May 10 2010 14:28 phamou wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 14:07 Kyadytim wrote:
Hmm. Interesting option.
I started experimenting with Twilight Council builds two weeks ago for fast charge and blink. While they seem to work well against ground-based Terran builds, I have yet to find a way to survive 2-port cloaked banshees from behind a wall in those games where I don't even have a robo started when the banshees show up. The best result I achieved was like the base trade described above where you have DT cleaning up their army in reverse :-( same here, this strat works but also has weaknesses and I cant seem to beat banshee rushes.. I guess every strat has its weaknesses. I guess when you can't enter a walled terran it is safer to go robo instead?
Launch an attack as soon as Blink finished researching, if you spot Banshees or the T player is turtling a lot, expect banshees. Get a robo. However it is important to note that Banshees rip Stalkers apart if you mismanage them. I had some trouble with Banshees today on my stream because I was just being out produced and if you are caught for a moment without your obs you can lose the game.
Banshees used to not be an issue for me though, it seems that if you just attack the enemy base with dark templar and stalkers before the banshees get too bad and run your probes, you could pull off a win a lot easier.
It is all situational though, if you catch the Banshees off guard with a Blink, you can really screw your opponent up.
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Yeah, I actually do this build all the time as well in PvZ and PvT. This build does WONDERS on Blistering Sands:
http://www.livestream.com/fobulous/video?clipId=pla_fcf3fe2e-c496-4918-9321-087340580aa2
There's a VOD of me performing it. You do have to be careful while doing it though because you are vunerable to an early aggressive build such as 3rax.
You should note in PvZ, most people will try mass lings vs this. When you still only have stalkers, you'll have to depend on blink and micro to survive this. Once dts are out you should be safe. One transition quite a few zergs do against this is mutaling. That's actually asking for suicide because remember: DTS CAN MORPH INTO ARCHONS. So having stalker dt archon will rape any mutaling build. This build is particulary effective against korean style spinecrawler mutaling builds. It also gets an added boost from using the blink up rocks trick.
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Banshee play is very obvious when you harass with your first stalker and you force him to make a bunker. Blink stalkers is basically perfect to beat that anyway, you've basically won the build order game, you just need like 2 obs or cannons as well.
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On May 10 2010 11:28 Opti wrote:I LOVE the fact that you can one shot workers and it does not alert the player, so unless they are actually looking at their base, you can totally ruin their entire economy off of an expo or 2 with DT.
It actually does alert..
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So what do terrans do successfully when they face this kind of play?
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Do you mind posting these replays, as a replay pack perhaps? Or using some site other than rapidshare ;<
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I want to see this get raped by zerg so that I can do the same thing
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It seems effective as long as you can do enough damage the first time through. A build like this can easily be countered if the opponent is prepared. Here's what I'd suggest to help though-
Versus Zerg- Throw a Pheonix in the mix. It'll give you vision to blink and can be useful for taking out overlords to gain map control.
Versus Protoss- Observer. It'll give you vision for blink and help you take out their Observers.
Versus Terran- Run a single DT in first, attack until he scans, then move the rest in.
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seems like a pretty evil build hope i never run into it before it has a decent way to counter.. though i dont tend to make that many spines and rather depend on a mobile army, could help abit atleast against the stalkers
though it does take abit of skill and prac to pull of right? so my guess is that i wont face it until i improve to plat
and to fx_ great post... are you sure you dont need an power enhancer? to avoid such meaningful posts i mean...
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Very interesting strategy, thanks for sharing! However, it would be really nice if you could upload a replay pack somewhere on mediafire or megaupload, rapidshare just won't let me download anything from it -.-
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Certaintly something to try out, thank you for sharing. As for getting vision, perhaps use hallucination? This saves you having to build a stargate.
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Very entertaining replays and wonderful OP. I laughed out loud when your opponent's last viking was going to narrowly escape... then you hear "research complete" blink BOOM.
This will now be my build of choice to force me to practice micro.
Really noob question (i apologize): whenever you move stalkers around an enemy base or are kiting units, what command/method are you using to quickly made them stop/shoot every few seconds. Move-Hold-Move?
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On May 10 2010 23:30 Back wrote:
Very entertaining replays and wonderful OP. I laughed out loud when your opponent's last viking was going to narrowly escape... then you hear "research complete" blink BOOM.
This will now be my build of choice to force me to practice micro.
Really noob question (i apologize): whenever you move stalkers around an enemy base or are kiting units, what command/method are you using to quickly made them stop/shoot every few seconds. Move-Hold-Move?
I think its move, A+click, move. Where to click is situational, but usually it's move away, a click behind the enemies blob, wait for the animation, repeat.
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I tried this build a few times (EDIT: in PvT). pretty tough micro >.< and also important not to lose any stalkers.
Being able to deal damage with the stalkers seems very dependent on the map. If you can blink directly into or out of their mineral line, it seems a lot stronger (desert oasis, metalopolis.... a bunch of others if the terran has a fast expo).
The proper response to this kind of build I think is fast raven - PDD helps with stalkers if you get into a fight, and detection. If you see the tech for raven as you blink around/scout with fake phoenix, then I think the DT is pretty useless. I think the main point of the DT should be to continue keeping T in his base while you expo; raven negates this.
So instead of DT, 2 starports with tech probably means banshee so you need obs, 1 starport with tech probably means raven so you need HT (for feedback) or perhaps chargelots, or perhaps obs anyway? have to be vigilant about scouting in any case of cloaked banshees
You might also see marauder, so after DT harass (forcing turrets/raven) then probably best to get chargelots-->storm.
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On May 10 2010 23:30 Back wrote:Really noob question (i apologize): whenever you move stalkers around an enemy base or are kiting units, what command/method are you using to quickly made them stop/shoot every few seconds. Move-Hold-Move?
He's hitting Stop. This causes your units to stop moving and they'll automatically start shooting, then click to move them again.
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I tried this and it worked great in all matchups. I only did it in PvP if I scouted voidrays though. Only lost once and that was to cloaked banshees that I didn't/couldn't scout in time.
I'm only in bronze league though so at higher levels it might not be as powerful.
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I do this vs Z every game, the transition to templar tech is smooth and very effective, and stalkers are at least pretty effective vs anything the zerg throws at you and very good vs roaches lings and mutas (with good micro).
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On May 10 2010 20:08 DamageInq wrote:
It seems effective as long as you can do enough damage the first time through. A build like this can easily be countered if the opponent is prepared. Here's what I'd suggest to help though-
Versus Zerg- Throw a Pheonix in the mix. It'll give you vision to blink and can be useful for taking out overlords to gain map control.
Versus Protoss- Observer. It'll give you vision for blink and help you take out their Observers.
Versus Terran- Run a single DT in first, attack until he scans, then move the rest in.
Hallucinate!
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Just upload the replays on a site so you can directlink, a good one without having to register:
www.topreplays.com
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It is painful to be T against this
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This looks like a pretty sweet variant on my friend's Phoenix/DT build. His is safer, but has less potential for damage (except against zerg, where he can snipe all the Overlords and Queens and put Z way behind). I really like this, watching builds like this in action is why I keep playing Starcraft
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Just want to put in my 2 cents here.
Great post, downloading all the replays right now to see how your doing it. A lot of the time i was using DT drops (early robo after my templar archives and then drop a DT shrine while i get my warp prism ready). If they werent ready obviously i could take out a whole mineral line with 1-2 DT's.
Glad to see other people using strats that incorporate a less used unit and are doing quite well. Not trying to say DT's arent used all the time, but compared to VR's and colossi and such.
Good work, thanks for the amazing post.
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Really cool build, dude. Neat stuff.
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i think DT's are great, umm i guess the only thing is careful of infestors and zerglings can stop DTs, it's nothing big as long as you can snipe the infestors.
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On May 11 2010 00:33 palanq wrote:
I tried this build a few times (EDIT: in PvT). pretty tough micro >.< and also important not to lose any stalkers.
Being able to deal damage with the stalkers seems very dependent on the map. If you can blink directly into or out of their mineral line, it seems a lot stronger (desert oasis, metalopolis.... a bunch of others if the terran has a fast expo).
The proper response to this kind of build I think is fast raven - PDD helps with stalkers if you get into a fight, and detection. If you see the tech for raven as you blink around/scout with fake phoenix, then I think the DT is pretty useless. I think the main point of the DT should be to continue keeping T in his base while you expo; raven negates this.
So instead of DT, 2 starports with tech probably means banshee so you need obs, 1 starport with tech probably means raven so you need HT (for feedback) or perhaps chargelots, or perhaps obs anyway? have to be vigilant about scouting in any case of cloaked banshees
You might also see marauder, so after DT harass (forcing turrets/raven) then probably best to get chargelots-->storm.
Very informative post, my thoughts exactly.
However I am currently very disappointed with the current state of storm. Seems like anyone with decent micro can just dodge it.
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On May 11 2010 04:49 Tozar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 00:33 palanq wrote:
I tried this build a few times (EDIT: in PvT). pretty tough micro >.< and also important not to lose any stalkers.
Being able to deal damage with the stalkers seems very dependent on the map. If you can blink directly into or out of their mineral line, it seems a lot stronger (desert oasis, metalopolis.... a bunch of others if the terran has a fast expo).
The proper response to this kind of build I think is fast raven - PDD helps with stalkers if you get into a fight, and detection. If you see the tech for raven as you blink around/scout with fake phoenix, then I think the DT is pretty useless. I think the main point of the DT should be to continue keeping T in his base while you expo; raven negates this.
So instead of DT, 2 starports with tech probably means banshee so you need obs, 1 starport with tech probably means raven so you need HT (for feedback) or perhaps chargelots, or perhaps obs anyway? have to be vigilant about scouting in any case of cloaked banshees
You might also see marauder, so after DT harass (forcing turrets/raven) then probably best to get chargelots-->storm.
Very informative post, my thoughts exactly. However I am currently very disappointed with the current state of storm. Seems like anyone with decent micro can just dodge it.
Storm straight up needs a buff. It's completely worthless vs zerg since colossi own all zerg ground and storm is worthless vs roaches. I would argue it's not even effective enough vs T or P. 110 damage storms would be perfectly fine to be honest. It was balanced in BW why wouldn't it be balanced here, a game where units actually have MORE hp on average (mara/roach/immortal/coli/thor etc)?
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I've failed this build 3 times so far =( First was against a Zerg who went speedlings into hydras he never scouted me but I didn't catch the hydras until I pushed with my blink stalkers and was already in transition to DT's, by the time they were done he had a couple overseers. I was getting mad frustrated because he never once scouted any of this. So I slowly get into Collosus/speedlots, and his counter was just to make more hydras. I was so far behind he just outnumbered me.
2nd time was a T that was going cloaked banshees from the get go. I had a feeling he was doing but I stuck to the plan, I couldn't get a full scout on it because of the wall. He fended off my blink push with marauders. I was sad. Again I was never scouted.
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This is an awesome strat but before starting to use this you have to remember that if your multitasking or micro fails you will lose.
Not saying that you have to have 300+ apm to do this but people who can pull this off are good players.
If you however start to do this be prepared for vast amount of losses.
I tried this and went from plat to gold. Just ain't for me. Atleast not yet.
For non-experienced sc players this will cause grief and possibly some nerdrages too.
Edit: And in PvP if you see cyber getting CB and there is still probe in your base don't go twilight council. Watch Tozars stream and maybe you'll see why.
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i've only been using this in PvT so far (one aginst the marine/tank/raven build and another vs M/G). Won two games easy (1600 platinum). This strategy is ridiculously effective. I didn't transition into DT, but got immortals instead.
It's a little easy to get caught in a bad position with a bad blink. This rewards good mechanics and micro and punishes you badly if you don't have awareness. I think it is better to expand to somewhere that isn't your natural (you have map control why the hell not?) so that a Terran base-trade doesn't work. The OP did this on an LT game.
Like I've said, I only tried it a few times, but this build seems to be amazing. Wish I came up with it.
EDIT: I'll post my reps when I get the chance.
EDIT EDIT: Sensor towers make it a little difficult to harass, so that might be a potential soft counter. it still doesn't let the Terran move out of his base very easily, but it doesn't make the harass as devastating.
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On May 11 2010 12:15 junemermaid wrote:
i've only been using this in PvT so far (one aginst the marine/tank/raven build and another vs M/G). Won two games easy (1600 platinum). This strategy is ridiculously effective. I didn't transition into DT, but got immortals instead.
It's a little easy to get caught in a bad position with a bad blink. This rewards good mechanics and micro and punishes you badly if you don't have awareness. I think it is better to expand to somewhere that isn't your natural (you have map control why the hell not?) so that a Terran base-trade doesn't work. The OP did this on an LT game.
Like I've said, I only tried it a few times, but this build seems to be amazing. Wish I came up with it.
EDIT: I'll post my reps when I get the chance.
EDIT EDIT: Sensor towers make it a little difficult to harass, so that might be a potential soft counter. it still doesn't let the Terran move out of his base very easily, but it doesn't make the harass as devastating.
Good point, I think I may try taking some high yields vs T while using this strategy...
BTW I am gonna start streaming now!
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You can't really expect to surprise your opponent with dt's when you are going a blink build
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i've been doing this pvz since seeing this thread (i saw the thread title and thought, thats a good idea, maybe i should watch the replays next) and its a ridiculously fun build to do. haven't lost with it yet either although a couple of times my standard play did save me from some failed skirmishes
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Tozar (or anyone else), don't hesitate to post more replays of this playstyle. Having a lot of fun playing and watching it.
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I will have to remember to get another raven against this strat. Probably after my second banshee.
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On May 15 2010 01:13 Inori wrote:
I've been watching your streams and trying a similar build myself (I emphasize more on Stalker micro (blinking them out 1 by 1 in the heat of battle and harrassing a lot with hallucinated phoenixes and etc) for last 3-4 days and I've come to conclusion that it gets locked down too easy by pretty standart builds from all 3 races.
PvP - 3 gate/robo - few Immortals and even with perfect micro on Stalkers in battles I get pwned completely. Plus easy access to obs means DTs won't really do any damage.
PvT - Stimmed Marauders/Tanks own Stalkers hard. DTs have a 50/50 chance, but in any case it's only 1 time thing, afterwards he will use scans, have turrets, get ravens etc.
PvZ - speedlings/mutas. Sure, blink is good against mutas, but the Zerg just flies around between my main and nat keeping me contained to base and blink cd isn't enough so he gets a few shots off every round. And speedlings just rape my Stalkers even with blink micro.
Any ideas on how to get around those problems?
Well for PvZ morph those DTs into archons and make tons of them. Make zealots to free up gas and zerg is done for. Mutaling can't beat zeal/archon.
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On May 15 2010 01:13 Inori wrote:
I've been watching your streams and trying a similar build myself (I emphasize more on Stalker micro (blinking them out 1 by 1 in the heat of battle and harrassing a lot with hallucinated phoenixes and etc) for last 3-4 days and I've come to conclusion that it gets locked down too easy by pretty standart builds from all 3 races.
PvP - 3 gate/robo - few Immortals and even with perfect micro on Stalkers in battles I get pwned completely. Plus easy access to obs means DTs won't really do any damage.
PvT - Stimmed Marauders/Tanks own Stalkers hard. DTs have a 50/50 chance, but in any case it's only 1 time thing, afterwards he will use scans, have turrets, get ravens etc.
PvZ - speedlings/mutas. Sure, blink is good against mutas, but the Zerg just flies around between my main and nat keeping me contained to base and blink cd isn't enough so he gets a few shots off every round. And speedlings just rape my Stalkers even with blink micro.
Any ideas on how to get around those problems?
If I understand Tozar's strategy correctly, the point is not to win army battles with superior stalker micro and surprise DTs. Base trading is usually the culmunating point of the blink/DT harrassment. When he moves in to take out your expansion or main, that's when your stalkers go in his main and focus on anything that can provide detection. Once you do this, it doesn't matter that his army comp is 10x stronger, you have invinsible DTs (even if it's just a handful) that can clean up both his base and attacking force.
Basically your stalkers army should never go toe-to-toe against any of the compositions you mentioned. When he gets sick of your harrass and goes all in, that's all just part of phase 1.
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I've seen this a few times on ladder..as protoss it is pretty easy to beat this...
what I do against this buid is..just make 3-4 immortals and mass other gateway units such as stalker,centries, and zealots with couple obs then move out when I'm ready to trade the base since I know his blink stalkers will come in when I move out
his ground army simply cannot beat mine and after we base trade I simply make nexus with cannons around it and go kill his new base
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Cool strat, however most Terrans are opening with fast raven vs Toss these days. Seems like you would need to be incredibly quick on killing both the Raven and OC with your Stalkers, and perhaps bait the PDD > blink out the first time. Also, a quick response by the Terran to repair the OC with SCVs while moving it towards his army can probably beat this.
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Been using blink in 2v2s a ton. Time to use it in 1v1s now some more. I'll try it a few times and post my results.
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The new early Raven builds have really been giving me a hard time. I've had more luck using Void Rays with Blink Stalkers recently than anything else. I'm interested in trying fast Templar Archives against this Raven build though. Point Defense Drones keep shutting my strategy down.
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I like this build a lot, but my 60apm macro starts failing if I do too much blink micro and army focus =_=.
Best part of the build though IMO is the name. NINJA BUILD FOREVER.
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It's a nice strat if you can keep tabs of your opponent through harass w/o an observer. I agree PvZ is where you'll see the most use as they are the easiest of the 3 to harass and their detection isn't great. I find DTs great late game vs zerg to deny expansions as well.
It's not worth it vs toss unless, again, you keep tabs on him through harass. As a toss player if I see mass stalkers that pretty much means I'm going to counter w/ fast robo or 4-gate, both of which I feel would counter mass stalkers unless you have great micro. If you can hold the 4-gate long enough for DTs it can work, but then you have to pray he doesn't cannon up as well. Generally very risky vs toss IMO.
Vs T I think DTs can be very useful in this matchup but usually not game ending like they can be vs zerg. A lot of T seem to go heavy marauder these days and trying to hold off w/ just stalkers is pretty risky. I like going standard robo if I see mass mara and then transition into HTs who I feel are very underused in this matchup. HTs discourages ravens and since you already have the archives it's easy to transition into DTs mid/late game. Hitting an expo w/ DTs right after he drops his mules at his expo can be devastating.
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On May 10 2010 20:30 Fx_ wrote:
more like "gay build"
wow, that is clever as hell
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wow i didn't think nEAnS was beatable
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Replay Pack #1 has been added to the OP! It includes 14 replays. Stay tuned for more replay packs.
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New batch was great. Thanks! You might want to specify the "download all replays" link doesn't include Replay Pack #1.
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lol tozar, so close in that base race with LZ!
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I haven't played against this build as T yet but I believe the proper response is to keep your ramp blocked so the DTs can't stroll in and to stick a turret behind the depots.
As far as blinking stalkers, I've had success chasing them with my blob while microing a couple marauders to try to intercept their blinks.
Watching the replay, thanks!
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On May 16 2010 13:43 Back wrote:
New batch was great. Thanks! You might want to specify the "download all replays" link doesn't include Replay Pack #1.
Done
Thanks for the tip.
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This is a great build. I've been watching your stream now for a bit and have decided to try it out. There are a few snags here and there but so far it is the most fun I have had with any build.
I am currently rank 1 gold with it, and I even started using it 2v2...with a slight variation going for 4 gate instead of 3 and I am currently beating top 10 platnium in 2v2 using this strat. I had a 16 win streak with it.
It is just so nasty in 2v2 because you can do so much damage if you have your partner attack at the same time you warp in those first 6 or so stalkers with blink and it gives you both freedom to expand / do whatever. Fun times :p
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On May 16 2010 15:22 Vexx wrote:
I haven't played against this build as T yet but I believe the proper response is to keep your ramp blocked so the DTs can't stroll in and to stick a turret behind the depots.
As far as blinking stalkers, I've had success chasing them with my blob while microing a couple marauders to try to intercept their blinks.
Watching the replay, thanks!
Im a bronze protoss at the moment and i find this strat doesn't work so well against terran in the early game myself. they tend to build turrets around their main assuming i will void ray rush. however what it is GREAT for is killing off their expansions. love leaving a few DTs at their natural waiting for them to make a few SCVs and their refineries then just raiding their mineral line taking out their ref's and making them lift off their OC. it also gives me sight of the units massing at their front door (on blistering sands that is).
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Thanks for posting this strategy. I watched part of your replay pack and you really highlighted all the best ways you can abuse blink versus all of the match-ups. You really do pull some ninja plays blinking in and out to harass / "pin down" the opponent while expanding, and I just find the PvT base trading funny.
It reminds me of the old Day9 podcast of 'the art of sidestepping.' Couldn't really find a way to deal with the terran Marine Marauder Medivac since it's really hard to power through it, storms aren't too effective if they stim/micro/heal with medivacs and retreat, and adding a few ghosts in there can really demolish a P army; but this just ignores it all together!
I wrote you build into my book of tricks; I'll have fun with it on ladder tonight
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On May 10 2010 20:30 Fx_ wrote:
more like "gay build"
Why?
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On May 16 2010 23:20 iCrag wrote:Why?
meh don't listen to scrubs. They don't understand the concept of "playing to win."
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I guess it requires a lot of practice to execute it decently, because I got it failed pretty bad at the moment mostly it fails from terrans for me, bronze league, so i guess it's my poor macro during the harass time, but still don't think it's easy one.
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Hmm with the Overseer changes, do you think Zerg will be making a lot of them proactively (before getting poked by DTs)? If so, does this impact your strategy at all?
Phoenix hunting perhaps?
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I have been experimenting lately with a stalker/observer/dt force pvp, killing his obs with my stalkers and everything else with the dts :D and have been meaning to refine the idea... and now I found this thread, great!
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i'm having alot of fun watching this on your livestream...can't wait to try it out in game
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The build is nice, really has its advantages but i wondered why you don't transition into other stuff sooner?
For example there was this match on your live stream where a terran kept pumping marauders and actually beat you because you stuck to your stalker blink jump around.
I wondered "he already has the Twilight council where is the charge research and the chargelings to deal with these marauders?" that transitioning out of your stalker blink mid game i figured is like your personal weakness in executing the strat to the end - and man i watched the stream like over 3 hours, great plays!
just my 2 cent, need to practise that when bnet is up again.
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On May 22 2010 01:15 Back wrote:
Hmm with the Overseer changes, do you think Zerg will be making a lot of them proactively (before getting poked by DTs)? If so, does this impact your strategy at all?
Phoenix hunting perhaps?
I always try to make an overseer proactivly but I always forget. Hopefully this patch will make them useful enough to in-print it into my brain.
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You may have been watching some of my older games. I've gotten better about transitioning sooner (at least I think so). Not looking forward to the Zergs experimenting with mass Overseers, but with the new spells I'm hoping they will wander off more often for easy Blink snipes.
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i'll be watching ya
the livestream was today (b.net down for patch 13) not sure how old the vids are they provide.
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nice work! DTs work great on unsuspecting terr && zerg (not so much toss, as most have robo already and can boost out an obs in ~30 sec).
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ling / infestor to hydra seems like the easy counter for zerg.
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I've added a few PvZ replays in the OP since I feel the strategy is still relevant and powerful in the current build of Starcraft 2 and it needed some functional Phase 2 replays.
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I've done this 3 times and won 3 times, solid strat
Also it's super fun!
I recommend getting robotics after 5 gates for observer and warp prism
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This is the build I usually 1v1 with - Especially against Zerg, often against Protoss, and sometimes against Terran. I didn't know there was a name for it . Anyway here's a replay of PvP where I do this. Note the robo facility assassination.
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I don't see a build written down on this thread. Can someone just describe the flow of the build for me either on here or on liquipedia?
Sadly, I can't get the replays to work on my comp.
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Bleh, can't view the replays on the current build. Oh well, thanks anyway, Tozar.
EDIT: Meh, I drag and drop the new ones, not working (screen goes blank + audio left on). I'll check out a fix in the forums. But hopefully the PvP and PvT updates would be cool, I've seen a few on your stream.
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The PvZ replay pack at the bottom should work on the current build. Everything else is Phase 1 and won't work. I never got the chance to accumulate any PvT or PvP replays yet, but once the game is released they will be some of my first contributions.
EDIT: Blarg, now that I am home, I tried the replays and whaddaya know. Blizzard broke 'em with the latest patch. 
Maybe I can get something up here real quick.
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on a side note: Hm, please change the name of that build *ninja* sounds awefully ridiculous ^^
counters could be:
P: Immortals or enemy DTs, since he has immortals he also has observer tec
Z: infestors + lings or hydras, this will limit stalkers movement (yes you can blink with fg I think but not move) since he has got the tec he can morph overseers.
Z: MMM with Stim, Marauders and tanks will decimate this I think and in a base trade terran can just lift of and fly away. Terrans can build cheep turrets or use scans for detection, in a 111 build a raven is a devinitive possibilty.
For this build to work you have to hide the dark shrine or everyone knows what is coming and prepare, it can also fall due to early strong pressure.
In addition I think everyone experimented arround with stalkers they are fairly strong unit but they can also be countered.
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On July 24 2010 05:19 Holy_AT wrote:
on a side note: Hm, please change the name of that build *ninja* sounds awefully ridiculous ^^
counters could be:
P: Immortals or enemy DTs, since he has immortals he also has observer tec
Z: infestors + lings or hydras, this will limit stalkers movement (yes you can blink with fg I think but not move) since he has got the tec he can morph overseers.
Z: MMM with Stim, Marauders and tanks will decimate this I think and in a base trade terran can just lift of and fly away. Terrans can build cheep turrets or use scans for detection, in a 111 build a raven is a devinitive possibilty.
For this build to work you have to hide the dark shrine or everyone knows what is coming and prepare, it can also fall due to early strong pressure.
In addition I think everyone experimented arround with stalkers they are fairly strong unit but they can also be countered.
If you're really interested in this build and want to expand your comments beyond -terrans can build turrets and scan- or -immortals counter stalkers-, I recommend watching the HOURS of footage archived in tozar's stream depicting him working around the basic "counters" and kicking ass in the top league. It's a great way to spend the pre-release weekend.
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United States28 Posts
On July 18 2010 05:10 roronoe wrote:
I don't see a build written down on this thread. Can someone just describe the flow of the build for me either on here or on liquipedia?
Sadly, I can't get the replays to work on my comp.
I guess I can respond to this since I've probably watched Tozar's stream for more hours than I've actually played the game
You "open" with council (first tech after core). generally this means you'll:
- get your second gas early (as core warps) unless you're dealing with cheese
- start your council after between 1-3 gates depending on how confident you are that you aren't going to die (after 2 is probably a decent goal)
Build mostly stalkers (duh) but don't hesitate to build other units that will help you not die (zealots vs marauder pressure, a sentry or two vs aggressive zerg.
Start to poke around with stalkers as blink researches. take watchtowers and get a proxy pylon or two going for quick re-enforcement. This might be the time to build a robo if the map necessitates highground vision for effective harass, or if it's a gas heavy terran who might be rushing cloak banshees. (there are a few choices for highground vision. obs is important vs p if you want to follow up with DTS, because you're going to need obs to snipe theirs)
Start harassing right when blink finishes. This is also a good time to start a dark shrine and possibly an expo (esp if your opponent has started one already) This is also good timing because it leaves you really broke, and you're about to spend a lot of energy micro'ing.
Point of the blink harrass is to be distracting, thin out armies, pick off workers and misplaced buildings, and not lose any stalkers (no head-on fights until you have more than enough to win)
Next, Tozar likes to re-enforce with DT's, using several tactics like:
- sending 1 dt to each mineral line as you push into their army with stalkers
- send dt's 1 at a time into terran forces to bait scans
- warp dts on to high ground using a nearby pylon and vision
And of course the rest of the game at this point doesn't need to be so cut & paste.
Apologies to Tozar and everyone else if I botched this, or added too much obvious detail.
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On July 24 2010 11:14 taffy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 05:10 roronoe wrote:
I don't see a build written down on this thread. Can someone just describe the flow of the build for me either on here or on liquipedia?
Sadly, I can't get the replays to work on my comp. I guess I can respond to this since I've probably watched Tozar's stream for more hours than I've actually played the game You "open" with council (first tech after core). generally this means you'll: - get your second gas early (as core warps) unless you're dealing with cheese - start your council after between 1-3 gates depending on how confident you are that you aren't going to die (after 2 is probably a decent goal) Build mostly stalkers (duh) but don't hesitate to build other units that will help you not die (zealots vs marauder pressure, a sentry or two vs aggressive zerg. Start to poke around with stalkers as blink researches. take watchtowers and get a proxy pylon or two going for quick re-enforcement. This might be the time to build a robo if the map necessitates highground vision for effective harass, or if it's a gas heavy terran who might be rushing cloak banshees. (there are a few choices for highground vision. obs is important vs p if you want to follow up with DTS, because you're going to need obs to snipe theirs) Start harassing right when blink finishes. This is also a good time to start a dark shrine and possibly an expo (esp if your opponent has started one already) This is also good timing because it leaves you really broke, and you're about to spend a lot of energy micro'ing. Point of the blink harrass is to be distracting, thin out armies, pick off workers and misplaced buildings, and not lose any stalkers (no head-on fights until you have more than enough to win) Next, Tozar likes to re-enforce with DT's, using several tactics like: - sending 1 dt to each mineral line as you push into their army with stalkers - send dt's 1 at a time into terran forces to bait scans - warp dts on to high ground using a nearby pylon and vision And of course the rest of the game at this point doesn't need to be so cut & paste. Apologies to Tozar and everyone else if I botched this, or added too much obvious detail.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
I never stick to strict timings for when things need to be made or researched aside from the initial structures. Since this strategy can be used against all races, these timings differ. Taffy's description of my strategy is very accurate. The only match-up where timing is truly important is against Zerg where you have a very short timing window to harass with Blink Stalkers before they can mass drones and overwhelm you with hydras and speedlings.
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So I didn't get much play in phase 2 and am still waiting for my copy to arrive so I'm not totally up to date. So they patched blinking past rocks on the uphill? Were only certain maps affected by this or were all of them?
The only one I figured would pass would be the rocks on Kulas as it's more of a horizontal blink but I'm assuming the rest were patched. I did get raged at quite often for using those blinks so I figured it wouldn't last forever
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Yeah, blinks over impassable terrain are now limited to the 6 range, so no more ridiculous blinks across chasms. It makes it a lot harder to escape with all of your stalkers at once. I may have to figure out efficient queued blinking for escaping now, I've been losing a lot of Stalkers lately due to botched Blinks that would've in phase 1.
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if you right click on the edge of the highground and then shift + blink they will all blink one after another when they are in range.
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EPT
