TL Mafia XXII

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CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 13 2010 02:26 GMT

pick me!

(I'm in)

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 13 2010 03:23 GMT

#17

Lol Assassins seems interesting

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 13 2010 22:11 GMT

#64

Yea, and if the game doesn't end, does the assasin have to stay alive for the remainder of the game?

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 17 2010 20:43 GMT

#245

I was under the impression that only the mafia could use PMs. If DTs could PM, would it be kinda an easy way to "roleclaim"? Because if you are allowed to PM then you must be a DT (well, or a mafia I guess). And the PMed person couldn't PM back? That would be weird

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 17 2010 21:02 GMT

#251

Well, you don't need to think much about it to see that saying you are an assasin is asking to be killed by the other assassins...

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 18 2010 23:35 GMT

#462

Ok I was going to post that TheLardyGoser's vote on Foolishness was just the kind of vote with with weak useless justification that can tell us of a scum who "need" to justifiy his voting with any reason. But then I saw all the other votes before him with similar reasons.

Could people post their justifications here for voting, isntead of in the voting thread?

Also, I don't how people serisouly discuted BM's assassin plan for 5+ pages. What's worth noting about assassins is that they need with the town, there's no better way to avoid lynching than being protown and those rolechecks can benefit us.

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 00:08 GMT

#472

The problem with killing someone suspicious on Day 1 is that we really don't have much info to work with. Sure, if someone really put himself forward with some really bad play, but most of the time you'll end up with a townie anyway. And lynching a random inactive put some incencitive for those inactives to start posting. If they start posting, mafia can't hide among them, and we get info to work with.

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 00:09 GMT

#473

On April 19 2010 09:04 flamewheel91 wrote:

Show nested quote +

7 hours of SC is a lot :/

+3 hours of PL that makes 10

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 03:08 GMT

#522

On April 19 2010 11:25 tree.hugger wrote:
For all the talk earlier on about the role of assassins in the town, I think we need to understand that while assassin posting should aim towards prolonging the game; the town can't rely on the the assassins to act on the town's behalf. But here's something for dts to think about.

If you role-check an assassin, you should definitely get in contact with them. Remember that:

Show nested quote +

Which means that finding an assassin can help you find other townies with which you can begin to develop a town circle. Not only that, but since the assassin's objective has absolutely no bearing on the game as a whole, detectives should be able to work in a pro-town way with the assassin. Remember that assassin hits...

Show nested quote +

... don't count against the assassin's total if they correctly hit another assassin. Therefore, detectives should be able to, if you play your card right, get the assassin to take out some spare mafia as well.

Therefore, DETECTIVES:
A) Rolecheck an assassin
B) Establish contact
C) Establish quid-pro-quo
D) Provide names, receive names
E) Establish more contacts
F) Order hits

Objections to this plan?

Except that's considering that the detective can PM assassins and vice-versa.

Oh and Incognito playing is certainly gonna change a few things around

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 19:34 GMT

#663

It's funny how Incognito/BC's posts about suspicious players get spammed off the page and nobody except Radfield replied to them. Anyway, I see the point behind Osmoses and jpak and would have voted for one of them is RoL wasn't getting wagonned so much, but I would also add another analysis on TheLardyGooser.

First of all, most of his earlier posts stand out on how much en always put emphasis that he's new/inexperienced/etc. Like Incognito said, this is a card played quite often by mafia players and town doing this is usually not happening.

His earlier posts (bolding is mine):

On April 18 2010 15:20 TheLardyGooser wrote:
I knew Bill Murray was smart, but this plan seems fool proof. Being a fool and a total newwwb I can respect that.

Altair, please leave me be when the night comes

On April 19 2010 02:17 TheLardyGooser wrote:
I still think BMs plan makes the most sense if I understand it right. I feel like it would put the mafia at a much bigger disadvantage but I am still new at this?

On April 19 2010 08:05 TheLardyGooser wrote:
I know its been shotgunned to death at this point, but I still feel like BM's plan, if not in terms of hunting down assassins, but rather in terms of a general role call. I am speaking from inexperience here, but aren't the mafia heavily outnumbered? Wouldn't a direct roll call at least be able to spread around some suspicion when we compare it to the number of each group? I feel like it would give us a pretty good start and at least let us have some idea of who to lay the hammer down on with our first lynch as there are bound to be some glaring inconsistancies.

To me anyway, the discussion at this point seems to be people flaming each other back and forth, largely due to inactivity. Again, this is my first time, but it seems counter intuitive to just flame back and forth when at this point we don't really know anything?

Lets make a plan!

The plays the inexperienced by asking for "working strategies"

On April 19 2010 09:31 TheLardyGooser wrote:
I think I was misunderstood on the aspect of the BM plan I thought was a good idea. I know it won't work for getting rid of Assassins, (plus you more experienced guys seem to not view them as a threat) but at this point its the only thing out there besides the flame war between caller and nai, and random selection (which at this point is statistically more likely to kill a green than a red).

Just an idea, but could some of you fire hardened TLers offer up some good day 1 town strategies that have performed well in the past? It might help to re-focus the debate somewhat

On April 19 2010 12:22 TheLardyGooser wrote:
I know this might seem counter-intuitive, but at this stage of the game with nothing but speculation, flames and no clues, taking a random shot at this point has a 79% of killing a villager. Added to that the only people being accused of being "scummy" at this point are just people who are acting like jerks, and it would be a huge mistake to potentially cut off someone who could be valuable just because of a bad attitude.

I think Radfield is right in suggesting we go after inactives that won't get the mod hammer with our first lynch. That way regardless of whether we hit red or green, we will at least be narrowing down the field of players to those who will actually contribute and make the game more fun for everyone.

For example, whether or not we may feel that Caller is being scummy, it is day 1 and none of us really have anything concrete to go on besides the fact we may disagree with him. I just feel like it would be a waste to make an unfounded accusation and get rid of someone who is at least contributing to the game at large.

Just my two noob cents.

So in this first posts the them is mostly that he's putting down some info and saying he's new and inexperienced, and throwing support at BM's strategy which isn't making any sense and that I think was mostly just some sort of weird trap from BM to see who would support it.

Then quite later Incognito comes and tell how mafia would usually say that they are ineperienced and new and his analysis on Osmoses. Not many replies on this, then when TheLardyGooser comes again and posts he's now suddenly not inexperienced and he's "among the only ones making sense":

On April 20 2010 02:49 TheLardyGooser wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 19 2010 20:37 Radfield wrote:

On April 19 2010 19:34 Bill Murray wrote:

On April 19 2010 18:55 Radfield wrote:

On April 19 2010 13:53 Incognito wrote:
Ok. Time for some stuff.

First of all, theres a lot of people moaning that we should just lynch an inactive because we don't have enough information. These people should step it up. There is actually quite a bit of information out here to analyze. So instead of waiting for one of us to come up and hand you the information on a plate, please try to go through and look through posts organized by user.

First off, innocents.

A few people have caught my attention as very likely innocents. These people are:

Zona
BC
d3_crescentia
Caller

All the people on this list have been posting rationally. (Ace would probably disagree with me on this about Caller, but from what I remember from Caller's previous games, he didn't post like this as mafia).

Time to pull out the accusation gun.

Osmoses:

On April 18 2010 07:08 Osmoses wrote:
I'm a total newbie but wouldn't it make more sense to save double lynches as late as possible, when you have solid info to go on?

This is his first real post. He plays the I'm a newbie card, and proceeds to ask a question that is already being discussed. No contribution here. He also makes preemptive excuses for his posting, emphasizing that he is a newbie, but...you get the picture. Check out TL Mafia V for an example of Tricode pulling the same stunt. From experience, new pro-town players would not try to emphasize their newbiness, as it adds a burden for the town. On the other hand, new mafia players tend to use this to excuse their useless behavior. Panic usually sets in and they try to play the im confused card.

On April 19 2010 05:58 Osmoses wrote:
Assassins will influence politics, trying to gear lynches in their favor against the ones they suspect to be assassins... Basically they will be the very annoying players that you can't really pin as scum or townie because they have double agendas. They may just appear confused or stupid, I mean they'd have to cook up some pretty elaborate schemes to sway the votes in the favor of someone they want killed if that person doesn't act like scum.

Its really pretty tiring trying to figure out who's what and who and why with such little information, and no clues -_- The only effect assassins have on the town is their votes and their influence, but lynching the right guy seems hard enough already, so if they do sway the vote we might just get a scum anyway... Should we really even be worrying about them? Their night kills, having only 2, will surely be spent on someone they truly believe to be an assassin, so as not to waste them, and the longer the game goes the closer the odds get to 50%. Those seems like good odds.

More confusion. How ironic. Anyway...Ok...So its tiring trying to find out who is who...but you haven't said anything yet about what you HAVE found out. Oh you also say there's little information to go on? Yeah I'm sure its very tiring to look for information that's not there...in which case you might as well just have given up. Oops! Well, if you're so tired trying to information, surely you must have found at least something. Spit it out. We want to hear it.

Anyway, thats the one person who stuck out in my mind. Everyone should be looking for information instead of lying around and complaining how there is no information. Some information is there. And some of it we have to bring out so we get more information. From experience, mafia games are usually more stagnant when theres no pms. You can't call people out as effectively as you can in pmland, partially because of spam, and partially because people don't feel inclined to respond when theres more than one accusation out there. So for now, I'm going to switch strategies and only try to focus on one suspect at a time. I expect responses.

OK, then lets focus on one person at a time. First off, I don't think his statements about the double lynch are particularly scummy. We were discussing them at the time, and it DOES make some sense in a way to save them for when we have better information; better chance of netting two bad guys. Mind you, i'm against the idea and think we should use our first one at the earliest opportunity.

However, what did jump out at me ealier was this post:

On April 18 2010 17:18 Osmoses wrote:
I'm suspicious of Zona, his attack on BC seems forced somehow, too condescending, but also too fervent for both to be scum. Why is everyone, that is to say BM, focusing on the assasins anyway? It seems to me they are very unlikely to win in the end, as they will probably be lynched or killed by other assassins well before the end of the game.

Here's my supergenius plan: lynch the least active player, it's the quiet ones you gotta watch!

To my mind, Zona seemed quite legit at that point, and more importantly this was a bandwaggon vote, given that Bill Murray had stated he was voting Zona just prior. It seemed suspicious then so i noted it down.

The more I think about it, I do get townie vibes from you because of you putting FoS onto Osmoses. Being a little more experienced than you, and take this with a grain of salt because I am not the best town player as my play always appears scummy when im green, you shouldn't read into day 1 votes because it is the random voting stage of the game. analyze the wagons after someone is dead, though, as you can see patterns emerge. I've actually found a couple people on mafiascum that way.

I am actually starting to get suspicious of you Bill Murray. Not so much from your posting, but more from what seems to be going on around you.

First Osmosis bandwaggons a vote from you on a player who I had thought seemed quite legit. Second, two relatively inactive folks both come out in favour of your assassin plan, despite the fact that no one else can even understand your plan at first, let alone thinks it's a good idea.

On April 19 2010 03:54 nbtnbt5 wrote:
What do we have to lose to try the plan out? It's not like we really having anything to base our lynchings on atm, and it seems like a reliable method of making the mafia take action.

A few other things which HAVE jumped out at me about your posting. You keep mentioning things like: being the miller, seeming scummy when green, always being green, being an obvious townie, etc. In addition, you seem to be encouraging people not to take your voting seriously. It seems very possible to me that after having been green for a few games in a row, you can simply use that excuse once you finally hit a red role.

I'm not trying to be harsh here, and I appreciate the advice you offered about day one votes, but all these little things seem to be adding up for me. What do other people think?

I don`t really care to listen to the BW calls about the BM plan. I addressed this with a post a few pages back... I definetly misunderstood it at first, but I still feel it is best plan out there by virtue of the fact it is the only plan out there, so prove me wrong I implore you.

At this point, all we have is a stupid witch hunt aimed with no evidence at people who are just being unpleasant.

As it stands right now for all of the people except RoL that have multiple votes we have followed the same stupid formula.

1) They are inactive, we call them out

2) Flame war starts

3) Votes get cast

If you were red wouldnt you maybe not want to be a huge dick to everyone and make them all look at you?

I am sorry but our governing philosophy right now is, if the guys a dick he must be red.

Out of the whole thread I feel like the only people that make any sense at this point (myself included) are Radfield, and IntotheWow.

We are all dead men

On April 20 2010 04:02 TheLardyGooser wrote:

Show nested quote +

Reasons why this argument makes no sense:

-Its really more of a consolidation of the current sentiment than a random ``lynch him``
-It is the first attempt since BM's assassins creed to do anything cooperatively but yell at each other
-At this point there has been zero suspicion leveled at him, so why would he even try and redirect attention?
-RoL is actually the least active player, and even if we mis-lynch him it has the pragmatic effect of a) killing a lurking red or b) getting rid of a towny who is not contributing, not going to contribute and just wasting space
-Do you have a better idea? If so, lets hear it?

Anyway I think there is no point for me voting for him right now so I'll still wait to see if I need to put down my vote on RoL (I think he's most likely to be scummy than BM, and also quite inactive) or if there is another lynching possibility going later.

Also, where is Zona??

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 19:36 GMT

#667

Oh I also forgot to point out that I'm hesitating putting my vote on RoL right now because 3 of those voting for him are among the players I find likely red (IntoTheWow, Rage and TheLardyLooser)

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 19:55 GMT

#679

On April 20 2010 04:25 Radfield wrote:
Out of Jpak and RoL I think we should focus on Jpak, mostly because I fear RoL all of a sudden showing with a "so sorry guys, all this crazy stuff just happened and I haven't been able to post"(whether legit or not) and that it might split the vote back up given he's a veteren and all. Jpak has been around at least, but just not contributed a single thing.

On April 20 2010 04:44 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
sorry for my inactivity, I am catching up right now. I am on page 18. I was working a lot all weekend.

Lol

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 20:03 GMT

#683

On April 20 2010 04:26 KF91 wrote:
But I do have to agree with you about RoL. When I played with him in the Micro-Mafia, he was very active; and now, it honestly feels like he died or something O.o

Also I'd like to point out that that game he was pretty inactive Day 1 and got a lot of suspicion. (and he was town)

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 19 2010 21:24 GMT

#706

On April 20 2010 06:14 Jugan wrote:

Show nested quote +

You need 20 votes to lynch, and I'm not changing my vote. Also, I would like to thank you for going over older posts and answering questions addressed to you.

Gah, it seems I misread the rule, I thought it meant we couldn't have ties. No way we're gonna get 20 votes...

Still, very pro-town behavior you got there.

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 20 2010 00:13 GMT

#746

On April 20 2010 09:03 Jugan wrote:

Show nested quote +

You fail to realize that I was correct on all but one mafia guess, and that it was I myself who convinced meeples and citi.zen that DrH along with mystlord and others were mafia. While you were busy in the kiddie pool trying to figure out how to play, I took the information Bill Murray passed along to me and won the game for the town. I also have records of private messages and MSN conversations to go along with it. Feel free to stop being an idiot. Thanks

Hm. Don't push that too much. The convincing factor was the clue check on DrH which painted him as red.

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 20 2010 01:00 GMT

#774

Jugan said he's not gonna switch earlier because he's sooooo protown

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 20 2010 01:00 GMT

#775

Oh nevermind then lol

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 20 2010 01:03 GMT

#778

On April 20 2010 10:02 Jugan wrote:

Show nested quote +

omg
wtf
bbq
PWNT

Yes I stand corrected

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 20 2010 01:17 GMT

#784

Yay vigilante modkilled.

CynanMachae

Canada1459 Posts

April 20 2010 01:40 GMT

#795

Thanks you Flamewheel for enforcing that rule. No flaming make mafia so much enjoyable to play.

Anyway, nice sidetracking of the town going right now ><

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