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Rules:
General:
1. You are only allowed to make one post in this thread (with the exception of me. consider this the rules thread that is not written by me). Please do not make any extraneous comments in this thread.
2. Please place all of your posts from day 1 and onward from the TL Mafia XX thread in your one post in this thread.
3. Edits are allowed, and are pretty much inevitable. Every time you make a new post in the main game thread, also please quote it and paste it here.
4. Please keep your posts consistently updated. It would be a great help to the town, and doesn't take more than a few seconds to update. Unless you're falling behind that is.
Post format:
1. In your one post in this thread, you should only place exact quotations of your posts from the main thread. Please include time stamps.
a. To get the time stamp just press the quote on top right of your posts and copy + paste.
2. Posts should be posted in forward chronological order.
3. Other than your quoted posts, nothing else should be included in this thread.
4. Please keep your archived posts enclosed in spoilers for organization and navigation purposes.
5. If you have questions or comments about this thread, please post in them in the main thread or pm me.
People who have yet to make an archive post:
3. Malongo
9. nemY
10. sidesprang
11. Zona
Example post (which will be my one post) below.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. On March 11 2010 09:45 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:23 citi.zen wrote:
For balancing purposes I guess some "strong" player(s?) will be Mafia too. If elected likely will choose to be GF and green- so theycan't be asked to perform role specific roles. So we need to be a bit careful. Then again lynchings can't be stopped by bodyguards, so office is less powerful for mafia early on to have an elected official. Late game the extra votes coul matter. Yes, some strong players in all likelyhood will be mafia. But it is still good to have strong elected officials. Elected officials are under a lot of scrutiny. They also usually take on a very active role in town affairs. The more they're on the spotlight, the easier it is to catch them if they are mafia. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 08:25 Fulgrim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Looking over the rules for the game, it looks like pardoner isn't going to play that much of an important role this game, its more of the mayor that we have to worry about. The mafia want to have the mayor role, and the only way they are going to get it safely is through their godfather. I think its probably safe to say that no "ordinary" mafia are going to be running for office. I'm surprised you say this. Pardoner is generally considered the more powerful office for mafia. Three votes is big, but a pardon can be more devastating if used near the end of the game on a double lynch day when both top candidates are mafia. The mayor can be held accountable for his 3 votes, and they can be tracked throughout the game. The pardoner however, will most likely use his abilities at one critical moment, which will come as a surprise to the town. We can't let that happen. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 07:39 Foolishness wrote:On March 11 2010 07:17 Fulgrim wrote:
It isn't safe for normal mafia to run for office, so they won't do that, the main danger here is GF. (Being unfamiliar with the busdriver rules, a mafia aligned one could switch the DT check off the elected official maybe?) Regardless we want to avoid getting a GF into office. Right now we have JeeJee, L, and BC running for office, chances are one of them is going to be GF. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see some more from the candidates or if there are anymore people that announce their campaign. I highly doubt that the mafia is already organized to the point where they got a guy running for office right now. It usually takes them a bit to decide what their plan is and who's going to run. I'd watch and see who comes to run later in the day. Why do you say this? Role pms were sent out a while ago, long before the game started. 8~ hours is enough for the mafia to get organized. Plus, a strong player candidate probably would have run regardless of his role. I don't think we can make any assumptions on mafia organization for running for office at this point. On March 11 2010 10:03 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:34 CynanMachae wrote:Also, I didn't really understand that part with the first/last for protecting BGs, maybe I'm just not reading it right or something, but I don't understand what you mean  Also, on a side note, pushing further Incognito's analysis about the chances of having a mafia elected, assuming a proportionate number of people run for office (20% mafia-80% town), with 5 people running (1 mafia 4 town) we have around 40% chance of electing a mafia as either mayor or pardoner (moving a bit toward 36.66% the more people that run, and having a much higher chance with less people running for office) After BGs are picked they are announced. So in the signup list, we find those two players and note that one of them is before the other. If "first" is picked, medics protect the first BG on the list, if not, they prot the second. No, don't think too much about precise chances. I was just saying this to illustrate why its wrong to think that mafia will be discouraged from running for office. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. So you're saying don't DT check the person with 3 votes who can't be killed because he could be the GF. Why does that seem retarded to me? Oh let me tell you why. Day 1 passes 2 people are voted in. If mafia attempt to run, they have the ability to put a single player in. The threat of DT checking prevents them from running more than one competitive option. Given that the good players in this game are limited, they're likely split up. I know that I'm not red, so that probably leaves either you or BC as the mafia candidate. One of you will probably be GF. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. In past games where I've been GF i've similarly relied on it as a method of painting other people as uncredible. I generally ended up being able to do wacky shit like get fucking medic or DT mayors killed off because i'd point to a mistake in someone's reasoning then go "LOL I FOUND YOU OUT GF HOLY SHIT" and then get them bussed. So given that, The mayor/pardoner NEED to be checked on the basis that it proves that at minimum ONE is legit. If ONE at the least is legit, then you can start some town building. Especially under certain circumstances. So yeah, DTs please check Mayor/Pardoner, and please make me one or the other (i'd highly prefer mayor so that I can kill bill murray). There's also another way to use bus drivers; you can use the town aligned bus driver after claims to assure that you have accurate DT checks. In doing so, you skirt pretty much the entire possibility of mafia redirecting your checks AND protect important players. Given that mafia aren't likely to hit their own members (unless knowingly bussed), the target/fake dichotomy is key. Anyways, vote for me. L, your general concept is accurate, but the presence of a bus driver complicates things. In the past few 30~ player games, we've had 6-7 mafia with 3 KP. This game we have 5 mafia for 25 players with 2 KP. Given that flamewheel does have some legal advice, I'm almost certain that the mafia will have a bus driver. With a bus driver, the mafia has the threat of preventing the rolecheck of an elected official. Which casts doubt onto the candidate regardless of alignment. Fortunately, if A gets checked and is swapped with B, the DT will get back: "B is a (B's role)" instead of "A is (B's role)". (I was originally considering making it this T_T). So any diverted checks won't confuse the town. Still, when we find out that one member is legit, we don't know which one. So we can't really build a town circle. However, you did say "especially under certain circumstances", so I'll wait till you describe those before I make a judgment there. I don't get what you mean when you say this: "the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town". Could you please explain? Can you elaborate more on this second way to use bus drivers? I'm assuming you mean that once the bus driver is confirmed, DTs use swapping to check a key player in order to bypass a potential swap from a mafia driver? On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? On March 11 2010 10:32 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:30 Versatile wrote:
all this talk about checking the mayor and pardoner is useless.
DTs: you need to decide who you think is most scummy when the election is over; mayor or pardoner. then you need to look @ the vote lists, and decide who you believe to be most scummiest there. the mafia will most likely run their GF, and at least 1 or 2 of them will vote for the GF and they'll show up as red. all of this talk about checking is useless. Maybe we should save it until after the election is over so we don't tell the mafia what to do. On March 11 2010 11:04 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:47 Abenson wrote:
Reading the posts above, I have come to conclude that the town does indeed need a pro-town mayor/pardoner, whether they be blue or not. Therefore I propose that all the veterans make a few posts explaining their reasoning about how this game will work, and to also give the more inexperienced players (like me) someone to vote for. My first post already gave a bunch of thoughts on the different roles. As for the game overall? Well first of all, the inclusion of bus drivers means any switch means that we can't really trust the information at hand. For example, usually successful medic protections produce 99.99% confirmed townies, but if the medic notices that his protection has been switched, he can no longer trust this information, for the bus driver may have switched the prot + hit onto a mafia member. There are few mafia members and very low KP. Expect not to have many blue roles. We're going to have to use good old fashioned behavior analysis here. Although we have plenty to talk about. Particularly the new bodyguard mechanic and bus drivers. This thread is so dead right now, its kinda disappointing. Ace?! Chezinu!? On March 11 2010 11:05 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:58 Qatol wrote:On March 11 2010 08:47 flamewheel91 wrote:
Qatol the Legal Advisor is now dead.
Fixed.  Compromise? On March 11 2010 11:06 Incognito wrote:
^^ Aww its in spoilers. Oh well... On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? On March 11 2010 11:42 Incognito wrote:
Wait a second...we can't do the medics protecting bodyguards scenario. If a mafia-aligned bus driver gets in contact with the mafia, they just switch the bodyguard with a random player and hit random player. The BG dies. *Back to the drawing board. On March 11 2010 13:45 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:28 JeeJee wrote:On March 11 2010 12:57 Fulgrim wrote:On March 11 2010 12:35 citi.zen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +From: Fulgrim [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Bonjour
Date: 3/11/10 12:26
Tu es rouge oui? C'est la verite? J'espere que je ne mort pas la derniere nuit.
Reply Keep'em coming. I'm so proud of typing that without a translator, pure skill alone. let's put my french course to work from like 7 years ago >.< you're red yes? it's the truth? something something dead last night? or next night, idk lol The last sentence is: I hope I do not die the last night. Which doesn't make too much sense...but ok. On a more serious note, suspects. Ah this thread is so...slow. As we all know, the mayor gets an autolynch. Anybody have opinions? I'd start off by prodding the people on the bottom of the activity list. Of course it could be that you haven't been around since the game has started yet. Anyway... 1. d3_crescentia 2. l10f 3. sidesprang 4. Fishball 5. Vivi57 6. Iaaan 7. Foolishness 8. ShoCkeyy 9. tree.hugger All have under 5 posts. Including pre-game posts. I'd like to hear from all of you. We can't find the mafia if you guys don't post, ya know. On March 11 2010 13:54 Incognito wrote:
These people have come out and have voted or posted in the archive thread, but have made less than 5 posts. This includes pre-game posts.
2. l10f
5. Vivi57
6. Iaaan
9. tree.hugger
Explanations appreciated. On March 11 2010 13:58 Incognito wrote:
Awesome. Another out of the blue vote for the Cobbler. Anybody care to explain? On March 11 2010 14:03 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 14:00 L wrote:On March 11 2010 13:58 Incognito wrote:
Awesome. Another out of the blue vote for the Cobbler. Anybody care to explain? Anybody care to explain why these phantom voters like you/cobbler over me?  You're getting a decent amount of love. You and I have been posting frequently enough. But BC seems to have just made one giant post and then not that much else since. On March 11 2010 14:05 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 14:02 Vivi57 wrote:On March 11 2010 13:58 Incognito wrote:
Awesome. Another out of the blue vote for the Cobbler. Anybody care to explain? he roleclaimed to me. I could roleclaim for him in the thread if you want. Wha wha what?? That seems way more fishy than L's partial claim...Don't bother claiming for him. Just think about what you've done...and state your logical reason why you should believe said claim. On March 12 2010 07:37 Incognito wrote:
Interesting here. I have limited time, have to go to work soon, but I have this strange feeling that all the top three probable GF contenders are all town. If that is the case, our advantage is huge. Imba, maybe, but plausible, in which case we keep a strong eye on Malongo/Foolishness/Fishball.
Reasons why I think L is town: He wants to be rolechecked. He wants to kill green officeholders. Which means he's either blue or GF. If he's GF, it will be hard to fake a blue role. I don't think a mafia would forcefully put themselves on the spot so willingly. For now, I see L as a pretty safe choice.
Reasons why I think BC is town: He says that he claimed to three people. Claiming DT to three people is a pretty bad idea if you're mafia. You'd preferably keep it to one so you can kill off that member if you decide you are being found out. Now we don't have proof about the other two people he told, but I don't know if he'd make that bad of a lie. Who knows. I'll think about it some more. We still have one more day to decide who we want for positions.
Will post some more later tonight. On March 12 2010 15:06 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 14:29 Iaaan wrote:
I actually changed my mind about what I said about L, your posts do add alot to the game IMO, but again BC is easier to hold accountable that the other candidates for his actions if he is false claiming DT. Unless im mistaken, your saying your not a DT, which to me seems like the only confirmable role. A mafia pretending to be a medic can simply say they are protecting someone, then simply not hit them at all. A vigilantee is a one time use, and a you could just use one of your mafia KP to fake a vigi hit. Vets are probably better to not be in office. If your green and you have a 'larger plan,' thats great, but again it seems fakeable and probably less useful than a DT in office.
Also if you don't win the election and your not red, your dead night 1 anyway. A veteran who has been hinting he is blue? why would the mafia pass that opportunity up? I don't see how not claiming at this point protects you. I hope you have a good plan that justifies you hinting instead of roleclaiming. Even if you roleclaim once you win, DT is still easier to confirm than any other town role. The problem with that is that for the medic to actually convincingly look pro-town, they have to claim that they're protecting good pro-town players. Which in itself limits the mafia killing pool to sub-optimal players. The thing that throws a wrench in this is the mafia-aligned bus driver, however. While difficult to prove, it would obviously look fishy when the elected official says "oops it must have been the mafia aligned bus driver!" I don't think there's that much to worry about there. Vig is confirmable. You'll know when theres 3 hits instead of 2. All these examples you give are plausible yes, but it would make the elected official super suspicious and would likely result in the official's death. I don't think theres much to worry about there. May I ask, how is BC easier to hold to account than the other candidates? On March 12 2010 16:36 Incognito wrote:The non-posters for L league? On March 12 2010 16:42 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:41 johnnyspazz wrote:
damn i might just change my vote so i don't get grouped with scummy looking people Right. Because thats not scummy at all. On March 12 2010 16:45 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:45 johnnyspazz wrote:
well i wasn't trying to look scummy
this is what i want to happen: BC -> Mayor; L -> Pardoner
BC for mayor because apparently he's DT and DTs are very important
L for pardoner because he said he has a game winning plan that involves sacing himself as the pardoner Wat. He never said that. Here we go again. On March 13 2010 01:01 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 23:30 L wrote:On March 12 2010 16:36 Incognito wrote:The non-posters for L league? On March 12 2010 16:26 sidesprang wrote:
I vote for L The non-posters for Incog league? incognito 6
billmurray
versatile
abenson
xelin
cynanmachae
fishball I mean, did you even look at who's voting for you? Yeah that too. I wasn't saying that your vote train makes you red, I just thought it out and figured that most reds would prefer you in office over me. The only thing I don't get is why they'd want BC over me...protected DT would be hella hard to kill...unless BC is actually the GF. Interesting no? CynanMachae looks red to me. Care to make any comments on the current situation? Other than that, Abenson isn't being his usual self, and Versatile's been a bit quiet. I'll wait till you guys decide to respond before going on. On March 13 2010 01:49 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 01:32 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. Also On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... I know what the rule is, I just think its dumb seeing as it hasn't always been that way. I'll vote later, probably for cobbler. And incog, why would mafia rather you in office rather than me? I know I'm not mafia, I also know I'm generally more active than you, and I've also stated that if I'm getting a role that can't be checked that I'm basically going to kill myself to have a full set of roleclaims. So pretty much no matter what I am, I'm claiming with the intent to prove it shortly thereafter. You, by contrast, are not offering any such game breaking attempts, yet you think mafia is more scared of you than me. But then you admit that you probably have like 3-4 fishy people voting for you. So how does that add up? It doesn't. I've got a paper due in 1.5 hours and I haven't even started formatting it, so I'll be back in 5.5 hours after transit/class is factored in. Uh I didn't say mafia would rather have me in office than you. I said I think they'd prefer to have you in office. The reason is because, as you have already noticed, people are trying to discredit and doubt you. I'd think its much easier to discredit you than me, and thus the mafia might think that they can deal with you better in office than me. I'm not saying mafia will be scared of me, but that it will just be more difficult to get rid of me than you. On March 13 2010 03:53 Incognito wrote:
Day 1 lynch targets. Looks like the race is between BC and L. Who are you guys going to lynch?
I have a feeling Malongo/Foolishness/Versatile are good targets. All been quiet, all good enough to be mafia since I think the three candidates are town. They just haven't done enough for me to see them as town-sided. What does everyone else think? On March 13 2010 04:08 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 04:02 Iaaan wrote:
@incognito
It seems to me like the mafia will kill malongo/foolishness fairly quickly if they are town, because of their senority. I think it would be better to lynch someone out of the mafia's way, who is suspicious or likely will become suspicious. IE someone with useless/small amounts of posts that doesn't have a chance of being modkilled. Hmm really? What if they're mafia? Then they won't die. What if they're suspicious (which they are)? They probably won't die. Mafia doesn't really have to worry about them right now. They're not doing much. Mafia have bigger problems. Like invincible blues. Or just blues in general. On March 13 2010 06:45 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:37 nemY wrote:
I think regardless of who gets elected the most important thing the DT(s) should NOT do is ROLE-CLAIM to the mayor/pardoner. The chances of one of them being GF is so high that it's just not worth it yet. Unless the DT is telling other people about it too, you'd think a DT for GF trade is good, no? On March 13 2010 08:57 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 07:58 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:49 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 01:32 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. Also On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... I know what the rule is, I just think its dumb seeing as it hasn't always been that way. I'll vote later, probably for cobbler. And incog, why would mafia rather you in office rather than me? I know I'm not mafia, I also know I'm generally more active than you, and I've also stated that if I'm getting a role that can't be checked that I'm basically going to kill myself to have a full set of roleclaims. So pretty much no matter what I am, I'm claiming with the intent to prove it shortly thereafter. You, by contrast, are not offering any such game breaking attempts, yet you think mafia is more scared of you than me. But then you admit that you probably have like 3-4 fishy people voting for you. So how does that add up? It doesn't. I've got a paper due in 1.5 hours and I haven't even started formatting it, so I'll be back in 5.5 hours after transit/class is factored in. Uh I didn't say mafia would rather have me in office than you. I said I think they'd prefer to have you in office. The reason is because, as you have already noticed, people are trying to discredit and doubt you. I'd think its much easier to discredit you than me, and thus the mafia might think that they can deal with you better in office than me. I'm not saying mafia will be scared of me, but that it will just be more difficult to get rid of me than you. It was a rhetorical question. Ie, mafia would much rather have you in office sitting around nothing nothing as a green. Your statement here essentially implies that you aren't going actually step up and lead and be held accountable for the results. Somehow I don't see how that's a quality you should have. We already know who the DT is.... You know who's claimed to be the DT. You know he didn't want you to know, and you have no evidence supporting anything beyond that. Once we have a rolecheck or two to confirm his identity, we'll know things for certain. Once again, I'm not green. Why do you keep saying that? Its just like everyone else saying you're DT. I'm not implying that I'm trying to avoid leading. Yay reading comprehension. I'm looking at it from the a likely mafia point of view. You've done a good job painting me green, which may keep me alive once I lose office. Its harder to throw dirt on me. It would be simpler just to kill me. Its just a lot easier to discredit someone who posts abrasively and unclearly. Like you. So just look carefully at the people who vote you then try to plant seeds of doubt. That is all. L seriously, who do you think of lynching if elected mayor? On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote:
BTW I do have a plan, but like you L I will wait until tonight's DT checks come back before I spill the beans.
For now:
DT Check List:
CynanMachae
~OpZ~
Sidesprang
Medic Prot List:
Incognito
Bodyguard A
Bodyguard B On March 13 2010 09:11 Incognito wrote:
Oh 2 notes:
1. The above assumes L and BC win offices.
2. Please refrain from deviating from this list unless you have VERY good reasons. On March 13 2010 18:12 Incognito wrote:
Few quick things: Reading through the post now, I'm surprised to find that I'm pardoner now. I'm looking at the tail end of my train. madnessman, BM. Why the sudden switch? Seriously L was a perfectly good candidate. We have about half a dozen paranoid townies scared of L?
Rofl at Zona and Cynan being BGs. Those two were on the top of my suspect list yesterday. Zona not so much now after your collection of large posts. Its nice to see some people suddenly get active. Cynan, I'd love to hear from you too.
Medics. So remember in one of my earliest posts I stated we would randomly choose who the medics protect from the BGs. The time has come to reveal your pms. They should all say First.
Which is all cool. However, the First BG on the list is Cynan. Someone who I have suspicions about. Moreso than Zona. Protecting him would not do much methinks, unless I'm wrong. (Remember, mafia BGs do not protect innocent officeholders) Which is why we need Cynan to speak up. What do you think about recent events? On March 14 2010 07:47 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +
Original Message:
"I'm not pardoning anyone. "
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
if the town lynches me, would you pardon me?
Bill, I don't remember saying this at all. If you can point me to the pm great. Otherwise this is just a pure lie and I have no idea why you wanted to post this. The JeeJee lynch: was necessary. When you get a vote swing, kill the person who initiated it. BGs. No use suspecting them now. If we try to lynch one of them and they turn out to be legit, we lose way too much. You can just use our deaths to figure out if they're mafia or not. BG protections. Yes, I know that I randomly assigned before the BGs were assigned, as you can tell. But rethinking the situation, it is probably better that the medics randomly choose who to protect from among the two BGs. If not, mafia can get a free hit by killing the non-protted BG. We need to force mafia to double stack the offices to get to us. Worried about a mafia bus driver? At this point, the mafia driver can attempt to switch off the medic prots, but then he would have to get in contact with the mafia for that to have any positive effect for the mafia. Which is highly dangerous at this point. A lot of people right now are inactive enough to look shady. Guys step up. Or, when you think you've found the mafia driver, let us know. Mafia driver probably won't be useful until a bit later in the game, or when a mafia is up for lynch. This is because if it is inevitable that a mafia will die to lynch, they can get in contact with the mafia driver before he dies. So at least for tonight, any mafia busses will probably not hurt us. Show nested quote +
Incognito, I don't think I have seen you roleclaim yet. Is there any reason for that, now that you are protected?
Its night time. I can't die tonight. Mafia doesn't need more information. This can wait till day. On March 14 2010 16:19 Incognito wrote:
BloodyC0bbler:
Vivi57
tree.hugger
Incognito
Zona
Fulgrim
Iaaan
johnnyspazz
CynanMachae
Did anyone else notice this?
On March 14 2010 16:28 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 16:25 L wrote:On March 14 2010 16:23 Incognito wrote:On March 14 2010 16:21 L wrote:
Yeah BC's pretty legit. Sarcasm much? Nope. Why do you think the mafia are offing that list though? Seems like a bad idea unless they know all of these people are inno? Otherwise they're just exposing themselves. On March 14 2010 17:40 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 16:40 L wrote:On March 14 2010 16:28 Incognito wrote:On March 14 2010 16:25 L wrote:On March 14 2010 16:23 Incognito wrote:On March 14 2010 16:21 L wrote:
Yeah BC's pretty legit. Sarcasm much? Nope. Why do you think the mafia are offing that list though? Seems like a bad idea unless they know all of these people are inno? Otherwise they're just exposing themselves. Low activity posters that aren't mafia are often blue. Vivi and Fulgrim posted very little during the first day and didn't really try to make themselves the center of attention. If mafia has a role they want dead right now, its the medic and bus driver. Once one of those are dead, they can start chopping away at the BG block and kill our DT. After the DT/medic die, the mafia 'clock' stops ticking, because the amount of confirmed townies stops growing and the chance that goons get outed starts going up. Given the low kp/round, the game is likely to go on for a while, which means that the effects of the medic, driver and DT are incredibly amplified. Hmm ok makes sense. Though wouldn't it be easier to just burn through the BGs? Because if even if mafia hits both the driver and medic in one night, they still take 2 full nights to be able to access the elected officials. And I find that highly implausible. Burning through BGs would take 2 days with medics. Maybe one more if the driver intervenes. But hey I've just noticed, Zona and Cynan. Traditionally, BGs have tried to hide under the radar in order to avoid being killed and exposing the officers. However, this game has the BGs out in the open. Given that BGs are only taken out of the green townies and non-GF mafia, there is no reason for you not to post. You do not need to hide because you are not blue. Mafia will probably want to kill you anyway, so you might as well make yourselves useful while you're here. You're already out in the open, so no reason to hide. Yes, having the BGs posting more and being more pro-town might make the mafia want to hit them more, but hey, all you townies should be posting more. But only townies. If you are mafia, we don't need to hear your thoughts. Thanks. On March 15 2010 12:48 Incognito wrote:
Important Announcement:
Foolishness. Yes, I haven't posted recently. Its the weekend, so I'm a little busier than usual. I have been around for the past few hours though. So yes I'm active. Yes it may look shady. But quite frankly, I'm disappointed and frustrated that every time I make a post in thread, I am ignored. Completely. Its not the mafia's fault, its the townies faults. So I have taken my activity and moved it into pm land.
A bunch of you have been responding to my pms thinking that I am just trying to fish for mafia. While that is a component of pms, it is not the only component. So stop being defensive about pms and thinking that I am accusing you. Answer the questions, and hopefully we can have a good discussion in private.
Why this switch? Because if I'm active in the thread and everyone ignores me, that is not useful activity. An everyone does ignore me. Every time I ask people to step up and explain something, nobody responds. Why is this? Because when people are addressed as a group, nobody feels that they are responsible, so nobody feels the need to respond. This has been shown in things like emergency response. So tying back into the game, when I point out an accusation, the mafia don't need to respond if nobody responds. They can just sit back and watch while the game stagnates. If they responded every time, it would attract unnecessary and unwanted attention.
So pms are better because it singles people out and makes them more inclined to respond. Makes them more willing to share their thoughts and feelings about the game, because they don't know who else is responding. As has been proven in the past, inactivity allows the mafia to hide. But how do the mafia know if its safe to hide? By observing the fact that other townies are also being inactive.
When I start a discussion with you in pms, you don't know if other people are active or not, so you feel the need to respond to not look suspicious. I get frustrated when townies don't want to cooperate and decide that its better to defend themselves when I ask simple questions. So if you're town, don't be afraid to talk to me in pms. I can't clear your name if you don't say anything or provide meaningful discussion. When I pm you its not like I'm accusing you of being mafia. Its that I want quiet people who are innocent to be inclined to prove their innocence, leaving me with a smaller pool of people to look at. Its that I want the mafia to be forced into talking for fear that everyone else is doing the same thing.
In conclusion, yes, pms are helpful to catch the mafia. But no, if you are town, you do not need to act uber defensive. I am not pming you just because I think you're mafia. I am pming you because I need more information if I am to determine your innocence. So please cooperate and allow me to help this town. Thank you. On March 15 2010 13:19 Incognito wrote:
Abenson as a lynch candidate.
Well, I for one, do not like this at all. First off, its been over 24 hours. And nobody's said anything in defense of Abenson. The mafia have not come out to point out someone more suspicious. And quite frankly, Abenson is no more suspicious than in other games. If I were to categorize his posting behavior, I would say its the same as always. Useless one liners. Which yes, he did while he was mafia, but he also did it as town. There is nothing extraordinary in my opinion about Abenson's behavior. Which naturally puts him lower on my list than other potential candidates.
Which brings us to other candidates. Quite frankly, there's a lot. We can never be sure, but at the moment, I'm not comfortable at all with Abenson as a candidate. I would suggest Malongo and Sidesprang as alternatives. Both of whom have very few posts. Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo.
Sidesprang. Everyone is claiming excuses. Sidesprang is no exception. We only have one instance of sidesprang as town, which is BC's TL Mafia XVI. Where Sidesprang posts little, but at least he seems to be putting in some effort. From this game and last game where he was mafia, I don't see the same effort.
Right now, I'm going to vote Malongo. So Malongo, if you are around, please show up and convince me that you are town.
Oh also another note: Archives. Please keep up with them. I need them to keep the analysis going. A lot of people are falling behind on this and we still have four people who aren't participating.
People who have yet to make an archive post:
3. Malongo
9. nemY
10. sidesprang
11. Zona On March 15 2010 13:45 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 13:35 johnnyspazz wrote:On March 15 2010 13:19 Incognito wrote:
Abenson as a lynch candidate.
Well, I for one, do not like this at all. First off, its been over 24 hours. And nobody's said anything in defense of Abenson. The mafia have not come out to point out someone more suspicious.
they probably aren't defending him because it would make it too obvious that they are also mafia. no one of my team defended me last game when the clues clearly exposed me as mafia and i never publicly tried to defer suspicion away from my teammates when they were lynch targets but that was probably because i am a noob. Yeah, I understand that, but also take note that there are no clues this game. If there were clues, I'd understand the mafia shunning someone they think too suspicious based on clues. But there are no clues this game. There is no compelling reason, psychological or otherwise that would make the mafia shy away from defending Abenson. We have plenty of good candidates. Mafia wouldn't have very much trouble trying to find one who's innocent to accuse. On March 15 2010 15:08 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 15:03 nemY wrote:On March 15 2010 12:48 Incognito wrote:
Important Announcement:
Foolishness. Yes, I haven't posted recently. Its the weekend, so I'm a little busier than usual. I have been around for the past few hours though. So yes I'm active. Yes it may look shady. But quite frankly, I'm disappointed and frustrated that every time I make a post in thread, I am ignored. Completely. Its not the mafia's fault, its the townies faults. So I have taken my activity and moved it into pm land.
A bunch of you have been responding to my pms thinking that I am just trying to fish for mafia. While that is a component of pms, it is not the only component. So stop being defensive about pms and thinking that I am accusing you. Answer the questions, and hopefully we can have a good discussion in private.
Why this switch? Because if I'm active in the thread and everyone ignores me, that is not useful activity. An everyone does ignore me. Every time I ask people to step up and explain something, nobody responds. Why is this? Because when people are addressed as a group, nobody feels that they are responsible, so nobody feels the need to respond. This has been shown in things like emergency response. So tying back into the game, when I point out an accusation, the mafia don't need to respond if nobody responds. They can just sit back and watch while the game stagnates. If they responded every time, it would attract unnecessary and unwanted attention.
So pms are better because it singles people out and makes them more inclined to respond. Makes them more willing to share their thoughts and feelings about the game, because they don't know who else is responding. As has been proven in the past, inactivity allows the mafia to hide. But how do the mafia know if its safe to hide? By observing the fact that other townies are also being inactive.
When I start a discussion with you in pms, you don't know if other people are active or not, so you feel the need to respond to not look suspicious. I get frustrated when townies don't want to cooperate and decide that its better to defend themselves when I ask simple questions. So if you're town, don't be afraid to talk to me in pms. I can't clear your name if you don't say anything or provide meaningful discussion. When I pm you its not like I'm accusing you of being mafia. Its that I want quiet people who are innocent to be inclined to prove their innocence, leaving me with a smaller pool of people to look at. Its that I want the mafia to be forced into talking for fear that everyone else is doing the same thing.
In conclusion, yes, pms are helpful to catch the mafia. But no, if you are town, you do not need to act uber defensive. I am not pming you just because I think you're mafia. I am pming you because I need more information if I am to determine your innocence. So please cooperate and allow me to help this town. Thank you. I don't like getting PMs from random people, because more often then not, it's someone fishing for information and since I can't explicitly see what color the individual PMing me is, I can't exactly trust that individual now can I? The fact is from the sounds of your PMs, you and BC aren't working together which could suggest that one of you is in fact mafia (or that the two of you merely mistrust each other). Rather than asking me about my opinion of our beloved mayor who lurks in the shadows why don't the two of you post what you think about each other, oh glorious leaders of our town? Oh, I'm a random person? Did you even read the post you quoted? It directly answers your fears. Even then, if you're green, why do you have to fear someone fishing for your role? Whats wrong with engaging in discussion? On March 16 2010 08:18 Incognito wrote:
Back. So Versatile doesn't want to talk in pms, and she doesn't want to offer anything substantial in the thread too. Whats up? If you want to talk in thread here you have it. Its probably too late to talk about lynch candidates, so what do you think of BC? I am personally suspicious of his list he posted. Where most of the targets seem to lack any substantial reasoning. What do you think? On March 16 2010 08:39 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 08:34 ~OpZ~ wrote:On March 16 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:On March 16 2010 03:58 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 02:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Let's have a look how many people are attacking BC. Is he really that suspicious, or should we be taking a look at two people that have taken to trying to say he is worthless. That's bad for unity people.
who else said he's worthless? don't be grouping me up with anyone else, yo. and fcuk unity, wth is this the special olympics? are we in a queen latifah video? you don't get points just for trying, this isn't high school phys ed. loser. i think BC is playing shady, i think it's shady he was the last viable candidate in the pool for mayor and he somehow won with a convenient DT claim, and i think it's shady he still hasn't posted concrete info to prove he is in a fact a DT. all in all, there's quite a bit of trees in here, and i'm looking for the sunlight. Yeah, the ~Opz~ post was weird. "Unity" and too much shared information among unproven people is a bad thing. Everyone needs to play carefully until we get a breakthrough of some sort, either by catching a red or from the DT(s). When 4 people come a long and instantly pick shit with one person it just seems like they are trying to incite the mob of inactive townies to go after him. If Versatile and Foolishness equal mob, and go after BC by just saying he isn't doing anything, I think that's suspicious. Why not just pick some other random townie that ran for mayor to make a plan? Why put it on the guy that claimed dt? If he's truthful about dt it would make sense for the mob to want to attempt to get him distrusted. Kk? Get it now? Their are other suspicious people on here, let's look at them. So who exactly are these "suspicious people"? On March 16 2010 08:43 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 08:37 L wrote:On March 16 2010 08:20 Zona wrote:
L you are definitely not being helpful to the town. Unless you're trying to set up an elaborate trap of the sorts that usually don't succeed, your lack of clarity is not helping the town.
The town benefits from clarity - when players (both mafia and town) post their opinions and thoughts in a solid, clear manner. Their accusations and plans can later be examined to see if they were knowingly trying to protect mafia or advance the mafia's goals. Your posting is not clear and you are constantly denying that you held various opinions, as players try to interpret your posts. And you do not clearly stating what your actual positions are in return (beyond "lynch BM").
Furthermore, your vendetta against BM doesn't seem useful. You have indeed posted a few in-game reasons in favor for his lynch for it, but beyond your "case" have expressed your desire to lynch him out of animosity or reasons beyond how BM has performed in this game. Why this is unhelpful is that if BM is lynched and he turns out green, I suspect you will wash your hands of your position by falling back on "I didn't like how he played, even if he was townie" or something along those lines. I don't really give a shit what you think, tbh. Having blues claim in the open when there's no reason to believe them is a fucking dumb idea. And it isn't a vendetta. I decided to push at him pre-game because he's the type of player that does dumb shit and I wanted to see how he reacted when faced with actual scrutiny. He responded with a litany of mafia tells which is pretty much exactly what I expected. I've had three huge posts outlining exactly why BM is playing a classic "don't step on me" defense while adding very little to the town, yet people seem content to ignore it based on the fact that he had a few goons try to take a drive by against my reputation by saying that refusing to roleclaim was 'chaos inducing'. Are you serious? My positions are pretty fucking clear cut in my posts. The people who decide to pm me based on what I've written seem to get the picture, so why is it that the only people expressing doubts are unconfirmed 'town' members? I haven't tried to clear stuff up? Are you joking? I've spent no less than 15 posts doing exactly that. "Did you claim x?" "No, I'm not going to claim anything till I'm in office" "Did you claim y?" "I just told you no" "Did you claim Z?!" "You must be kidding" Perhaps you forgot that? I guess that would be hard for you because you were one of the main people doing it. And as for me washing my hands clean, didn't I offer Citi.zen the opportunity to kill me if BM flipped green? I'll restate that: Kill BM today, have him flip green, and I'll let you guys off me without a single word of protest and you can quote this post and everything. Every single factual statement you made in this post is wrong.
Why? My feeling is that BM is vig or mafia. If he comes out and claims green one more time, I'd be ok with getting him shot. Though it is a bit late to switch the votes around. On March 16 2010 15:40 Incognito wrote:
Early game, Bill seems innocent.
End of Day 1, he sounds more fishy. Especially after the "drunk" posts. And repeatedly emphasizing his greenness.
Day 2 lynch final moments, even more fishy. I like L's analysis. Now that I go back to it, yeah, its funny how Bill is pre-emptively trying to show his support in favor of Malongo's lynch before Malongo flips red. While also voting to lynch Abenson. If Bill wasn't suspicious before now, he sure is now.
Other thoughts: I find it interesting how Versatile brings up an ultimatum on BC. Then proceeds to viciously attack the fact that BC isn't announcing people he's checked. Then, when BC responds, Versatile disappears. Something is not right here. The way they're going at each other, I'm guessing one of BC/Versatile are mafia. The question right now is, which one? Good question. Atm BC can be tested more than Versatile given BC's claim.
Zona's strongly pro-town posts seem to make him a good target for the mafia. Plus, Zona is also a BG, so double the goodies for the mafia. This, in my eyes, makes Zona a strong target for BD or medic protection. Good job Zona for making yourself a clear pro-town BG. That just makes it harder for the mafia to decide who to hit. On March 17 2010 01:07 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 00:36 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 15:40 Incognito wrote:
Early game, Bill seems innocent.
End of Day 1, he sounds more fishy. Especially after the "drunk" posts. And repeatedly emphasizing his greenness.
Day 2 lynch final moments, even more fishy. I like L's analysis. Now that I go back to it, yeah, its funny how Bill is pre-emptively trying to show his support in favor of Malongo's lynch before Malongo flips red. While also voting to lynch Abenson. If Bill wasn't suspicious before now, he sure is now.
Other thoughts: I find it interesting how Versatile brings up an ultimatum on BC. Then proceeds to viciously attack the fact that BC isn't announcing people he's checked. Then, when BC responds, Versatile disappears. Something is not right here. The way they're going at each other, I'm guessing one of BC/Versatile are mafia. The question right now is, which one? Good question. Atm BC can be tested more than Versatile given BC's claim.
Zona's strongly pro-town posts seem to make him a good target for the mafia. Plus, Zona is also a BG, so double the goodies for the mafia. This, in my eyes, makes Zona a strong target for BD or medic protection. Good job Zona for making yourself a clear pro-town BG. That just makes it harder for the mafia to decide who to hit. uh, i went to bed. and now i'm checking the thread while getting ready for work. am i supposed to be reading this thread 24/7? you've been coming @ me in a very slick way all game long. you seem to love typing my name. remember when you asked me for my opinion on BC and asked me to post in here? well, i did. i don't remember you responding. were you planning to? are you going to elaborate on your suspicions of BC, especially since you've been "collecting intel" on him through PMs? you set that trap yet,buddy? Don't worry this will be sorted out by tonight. On March 17 2010 01:11 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor. Keep in mind that the mafia know who the townies are, so BC as mafia could kill off people he knows 100% to be townies to make himself look legit if we're following your suggestion. On March 17 2010 02:07 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor.at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. Lets take a look at these three posts from Versatile. First, she agrees with BC's idea that DTs should only announce red checks. Second post, she decides that BC is pulling BS here when he decides to follow the plan that she agreed with. Third post, I guess she figures that her previous attempt to get BC to spit out the confirmed townies didn't work and is desperate to find another way? Her plan is flawed for obvious reasons stated above. I dont know, but why do you keep switching your views on things that seem like they should be policy no matter what your role? Something doesn't add up here. Care to explain? Also, who do you suggest we lynch tomorrow? Did you read L's analysis of Bill Murray? On another note, Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Downplaying Malongo's lynch. Which fine, it wasn't some awesome convincing analysis. But it was a successful guess. Would the mafia really risk starting a train on Malongo when he hadn't been previously discussed? Sure, he was inactive and a good target to gain credibility, but at this point, they have more issues to worry about then gaining credibility from lynches. Either way, you've mentioned repeatedly that it is self-evident that one of BC/me/L are mafia. In fact you keep saying this as if you're 100% sure that this is true seemingly out of nowhere. Stirring up the town based on a percieved false consensus here? BC's alignment can be tested severely. Yours unfortunately is a bit more difficult. But I guess I'll wait to comment further until you answer this post. On March 17 2010 12:19 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 02:32 Versatile wrote:On March 17 2010 02:07 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor.at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. Lets take a look at these three posts from Versatile. First, she agrees with BC's idea that DTs should only announce red checks. Second post, she decides that BC is pulling BS here when he decides to follow the plan that she agreed with. Third post, I guess she figures that her previous attempt to get BC to spit out the confirmed townies didn't work and is desperate to find another way? Her plan is flawed for obvious reasons stated above. I dont know, but why do you keep switching your views on things that seem like they should be policy no matter what your role? Something doesn't add up here. Care to explain? Also, who do you suggest we lynch tomorrow? Did you read L's analysis of Bill Murray? On another note, On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Downplaying Malongo's lynch. Which fine, it wasn't some awesome convincing analysis. But it was a successful guess. Would the mafia really risk starting a train on Malongo when he hadn't been previously discussed? Sure, he was inactive and a good target to gain credibility, but at this point, they have more issues to worry about then gaining credibility from lynches. Either way, you've mentioned repeatedly that it is self-evident that one of BC/me/L are mafia. In fact you keep saying this as if you're 100% sure that this is true seemingly out of nowhere. Stirring up the town based on a percieved false consensus here? BC's alignment can be tested severely. Yours unfortunately is a bit more difficult. But I guess I'll wait to comment further until you answer this post. 1. that post was referring to an UNPROTECTED DT. i never agreed that BC should keep his checks secretly. not once. go read my posts. once again, stop misrepresenting my what i wrote. this is the same shyt people were doing to L. i have used to the same policy the entire time. i haven't changed my mind. so that point is null and void. 2. lol, are you serious? downplaying malongo's lynch? if i were mafia, what would i gain from doing this? and how was it a successful guess? NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died. that's not a towny victory. that's just bad luck for the mafia. further, citi.zen and L both said the same thing. but it only matters to you that i said it right? 3. i don't understand how you can say that i am "stirring up the town based on perceived false consensus". i am not the only towny who has said this, so there is no perceived false consensus. fact is, it is very unlikely that that all three of you are blue/green. that's what i think, and if you don't like, go cry to someone else about it. now, instead of riding my jock, maybe you'd like to actually post something substantial. cut the "all will be made clear in the morning's dawn when God whispers in your ear" bullshit. you're also an elected official and i don't see you doing much either. in fact, i find it suspicious that you're taking all the heat for BC when you claim to be suspicious of him yourself. what's up with that, boss? Thank you for the nonsense garbage reply that ignores half of my statements. Again, "the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red". I think everyone would agree that I'm not taking your posts out of context here. Only is a pretty strong word. And even if I look at the post you're replying to, Abenson doesn't mention unprotected DTs specifically. Oops and you decide not to respond to my comments on your second and third pms. Trying to cover that up? "NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died." This is true. But why are you trying to deny the fact that BC and I started the move against Malongo? Sure, it wasn't the most solid analysis, but it still counts for something. Regardless of what the outcome was, its the actions and the motives that are important here. Yes, you are downplaying Malongo's lynch, perhaps because as mafia, you fear that BC and I will become too trusted by the town. There's no logical reason why BC and I would start a train against our own mafia teammate when we didn't have to. Everyone seemed perfectly happy bandwagoning Abenson. Mafia didn't need to break the status quo. And now you're saying they did. I now have proof that BC and I are either BOTH mafia or both town, which I'll bring up later. I'm taking the heat for BC because you are doing something incredibly narrow minded, short sighted, and misguided. As for you, I'd appreciate if you didn't spam the thread with all that vulgar and useless language. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 05:25 Abenson wrote:
I went to mafiascum.net and I've just realized that Incog is scummer himself and won the IC award :O I don't play on mafiascum. Show nested quote +Quote from sidesprang: Which brings us to other candidates. Quite frankly, there's a lot. We can never be sure, but at the moment, I'm not comfortable at all with Abenson as a candidate. I would suggest Malongo and Sidesprang as alternatives. Both of whom have very few posts. Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo. No this is a quote from me. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 07:45 Bill Murray wrote:
sorry for misquoting you sidesprang, seemed suspicious though.
i guess ill ask you, then, incognito. why were you so worried about malongo's inactivity? I wasn't even aware he was inactive, I was bloody f5ing the voting thread ready to switch my vote on him if he showed up. This has been stated several times. Inactive + ran for mayor then disappeared. He's also known for posting a lot more. And Abenson was a worse lynch target because nobody defended him and he was acting like he was every game. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 07:46 Bill Murray wrote:
Also, Incognito, why have you been a lot less active in organizing the town this game as compared with the last? Because I haven't. More to come. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 53. An interesting page that has a handful of people spamming "that sucks" posts all over. Yes it does suck. But Versatile, I thought you wanted us to die anyway? On to business. And roleclaims. And clearing BC of guilt. First off, I am the Bus Driver. If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the reason why we all had figured out blues was because we were all blue. Durr. And the reason why I didn't claim driver after my election was so that the mafia/mafia driver wouldnt mess up our checks. So, on to confirmations. Night 1, BC checks sidesprang. I bus sidesprang and L. L is rolechecked and comes up as a Mad Hatter, which is all fine and dandy. While this confirms L and me to BC, it did nothing to confirm BC to me. Day 2, I receive a pm from a claimed DT. Now I get hella suspicious of BC, guessing that the balance would be terribly off if we had 2 DTs and only 5 mafia. So fearing that I had wasted my first bus to a manipulative GF, I decided to end this once and for all. BC would be tested by bus. Simple, really. I ask BC to check player X. Then, I use my powers to swap player X with any of the other remaining 19 players on the field. BC now has to guess who I swapped with, in addition to the role. 1/19 is pretty slim for a fake DT. Fortunately, BC passed the test. So either we are both mafia, or we are both town. Any questions? Will post more about lynch targets in a short while. On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?
It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs. On March 17 2010 12:59 Incognito wrote:
Lynch targets:
d3_crescentia - In previous games as town, he is vocal and provides some logical and useful insight for the town, both with behavioral analysis and general game plan discussion. This game, he has provided far less. Although he gave some reasons/work etc., I am still suspicious.
Versatile - She has been contradicting herself the whole game and also posting garbage. She doesn't really do much except attack BC. She also does a pretty bad job at it too, considering she wants to insta lynch instead of gradually building the case with his "DT" checks.
XeliN - First post, he states that he has a paper and won't be very active. Then he wants to make a rule against inactivity. Oops! Secondly, if you go through his posts, notice that a lot of his posts are defending Bill Murray. Does he defend anyone else? No. Does he try to accuse anyone else? Not really. Oops! XeliN also wants me over L or BC for Mayor/Pardoner. Claims I am a better candidate/stronger player. Maybe this is because of last game, but maybe its just because L/BC were more outspoken about their blueness. Other things: He votes for Abenson. After I post my reasons for Malongo. Reason? Because Abenson has contributed nothing. Malongo hadn't contributed anything either. Oops! Also the his next post he asks me to post my accusations of Malongo publically. Another oops? Either way, XeliN is probably tied to Bill Murray. He seems probably the most fishy to me.
Bill Murray - Yes, we all know he spams. But I don't want to lynch him because he spams. I want to lynch him because I think he's mafia. Read L's analysis. Its good. Read my accusation of XeliN. If you think XeliN is suspicious, maybe you can agree with Bill Murray too? On March 17 2010 13:01 Incognito wrote:
Oh also vote for double lynch. Thanks. On March 17 2010 13:04 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 12:45 Versatile wrote:On March 17 2010 12:19 Incognito wrote:On March 17 2010 02:32 Versatile wrote:On March 17 2010 02:07 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor.at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. Lets take a look at these three posts from Versatile. First, she agrees with BC's idea that DTs should only announce red checks. Second post, she decides that BC is pulling BS here when he decides to follow the plan that she agreed with. Third post, I guess she figures that her previous attempt to get BC to spit out the confirmed townies didn't work and is desperate to find another way? Her plan is flawed for obvious reasons stated above. I dont know, but why do you keep switching your views on things that seem like they should be policy no matter what your role? Something doesn't add up here. Care to explain? Also, who do you suggest we lynch tomorrow? Did you read L's analysis of Bill Murray? On another note, On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Downplaying Malongo's lynch. Which fine, it wasn't some awesome convincing analysis. But it was a successful guess. Would the mafia really risk starting a train on Malongo when he hadn't been previously discussed? Sure, he was inactive and a good target to gain credibility, but at this point, they have more issues to worry about then gaining credibility from lynches. Either way, you've mentioned repeatedly that it is self-evident that one of BC/me/L are mafia. In fact you keep saying this as if you're 100% sure that this is true seemingly out of nowhere. Stirring up the town based on a percieved false consensus here? BC's alignment can be tested severely. Yours unfortunately is a bit more difficult. But I guess I'll wait to comment further until you answer this post. 1. that post was referring to an UNPROTECTED DT. i never agreed that BC should keep his checks secretly. not once. go read my posts. once again, stop misrepresenting my what i wrote. this is the same shyt people were doing to L. i have used to the same policy the entire time. i haven't changed my mind. so that point is null and void. 2. lol, are you serious? downplaying malongo's lynch? if i were mafia, what would i gain from doing this? and how was it a successful guess? NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died. that's not a towny victory. that's just bad luck for the mafia. further, citi.zen and L both said the same thing. but it only matters to you that i said it right? 3. i don't understand how you can say that i am "stirring up the town based on perceived false consensus". i am not the only towny who has said this, so there is no perceived false consensus. fact is, it is very unlikely that that all three of you are blue/green. that's what i think, and if you don't like, go cry to someone else about it. now, instead of riding my jock, maybe you'd like to actually post something substantial. cut the "all will be made clear in the morning's dawn when God whispers in your ear" bullshit. you're also an elected official and i don't see you doing much either. in fact, i find it suspicious that you're taking all the heat for BC when you claim to be suspicious of him yourself. what's up with that, boss? Thank you for the nonsense garbage reply that ignores half of my statements. Again, "the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red". I think everyone would agree that I'm not taking your posts out of context here. Only is a pretty strong word. And even if I look at the post you're replying to, Abenson doesn't mention unprotected DTs specifically. Oops and you decide not to respond to my comments on your second and third pms. Trying to cover that up? "NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died." This is true. But why are you trying to deny the fact that BC and I started the move against Malongo? Sure, it wasn't the most solid analysis, but it still counts for something. Regardless of what the outcome was, its the actions and the motives that are important here. Yes, you are downplaying Malongo's lynch, perhaps because as mafia, you fear that BC and I will become too trusted by the town. There's no logical reason why BC and I would start a train against our own mafia teammate when we didn't have to. Everyone seemed perfectly happy bandwagoning Abenson. Mafia didn't need to break the status quo. And now you're saying they did. I now have proof that BC and I are either BOTH mafia or both town, which I'll bring up later. I'm taking the heat for BC because you are doing something incredibly narrow minded, short sighted, and misguided. As for you, I'd appreciate if you didn't spam the thread with all that vulgar and useless language. On March 17 2010 05:25 Abenson wrote:
I went to mafiascum.net and I've just realized that Incog is scummer himself and won the IC award :O I don't play on mafiascum. Quote from sidesprang: Which brings us to other candidates. Quite frankly, there's a lot. We can never be sure, but at the moment, I'm not comfortable at all with Abenson as a candidate. I would suggest Malongo and Sidesprang as alternatives. Both of whom have very few posts. Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo. No this is a quote from me. On March 17 2010 07:45 Bill Murray wrote:
sorry for misquoting you sidesprang, seemed suspicious though.
i guess ill ask you, then, incognito. why were you so worried about malongo's inactivity? I wasn't even aware he was inactive, I was bloody f5ing the voting thread ready to switch my vote on him if he showed up. This has been stated several times. Inactive + ran for mayor then disappeared. He's also known for posting a lot more. And Abenson was a worse lynch target because nobody defended him and he was acting like he was every game. On March 17 2010 07:46 Bill Murray wrote:
Also, Incognito, why have you been a lot less active in organizing the town this game as compared with the last? Because I haven't. More to come. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 53. An interesting page that has a handful of people spamming "that sucks" posts all over. Yes it does suck. But Versatile, I thought you wanted us to die anyway? On to business. And roleclaims. And clearing BC of guilt. First off, I am the Bus Driver. If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the reason why we all had figured out blues was because we were all blue. Durr. And the reason why I didn't claim driver after my election was so that the mafia/mafia driver wouldnt mess up our checks. So, on to confirmations. Night 1, BC checks sidesprang. I bus sidesprang and L. L is rolechecked and comes up as a Mad Hatter, which is all fine and dandy. While this confirms L and me to BC, it did nothing to confirm BC to me. Day 2, I receive a pm from a claimed DT. Now I get hella suspicious of BC, guessing that the balance would be terribly off if we had 2 DTs and only 5 mafia. So fearing that I had wasted my first bus to a manipulative GF, I decided to end this once and for all. BC would be tested by bus. Simple, really. I ask BC to check player X. Then, I use my powers to swap player X with any of the other remaining 19 players on the field. BC now has to guess who I swapped with, in addition to the role. 1/19 is pretty slim for a fake DT. Fortunately, BC passed the test. So either we are both mafia, or we are both town. Any questions? Will post more about lynch targets in a short while. 1. since you're trying to use my quotes against me, here's one from earlier on in the game that clarifies my feelings on people claiming. i can admit i could have been clearer in the post you quoted, but hopefully this will put it to rest. On March 14 2010 02:00 Versatile wrote:
sorry folks, just got caught up with the thread, haven't had much free time lately. and i knew that might happen, which is why i got my vote in early.
at the time i voted, it was L and incog who were the top candidates and incog read as more pro-town to me, hence my vote.
a couple of things: incog stated he expected more form me in this game. this in itself is not strange, because i'm pretty sure incog is familiar with my playing on another site. however, he called out malongo and foolishness as well. i don't believe malongo has addressed this accusation yet.
however, foolishness not only didn't bother to defend himself to incog or any other player, but went as far as defending incog's post and went back and forth with zona.
this struck me because if zona's not town, who the hell is? check his posts, if i had been around, that's who i would i have changed my vote to.
in any case, i also received an incog PM stating "first". however, i believe the medics need to be protecting zona, and i hope that's what they decide to do.
as i stated earlier, DTs ought to be checking the vote lists. if we have a mafia member in office, it's likely a mafia member or two voted for them, especially with a last minute vote swing, if i read correctly.
i also don't think anyone without protection should be claiming a damn thing to anyone right now. DTs should be investigating and building up their circle in the most secure and legitimate way they can, and it's far too early to be trusting anyone.
going to update my archives now. 2. what did you say about your PMs? what would i have to cover up? here are my PMs with incog for all who are interested. i have nothing to hide. read bottom up, bolded is me: + Show Spoiler +sure, if you promise to choke on a dick sometime within the next couple of hours
once again, i don't play behind the scenes so stop PMing me. play in the thread.
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Original Message:
Well if you don't play behind the scenes, I'm sure you're willing to post more in the thread? At the moment I don't think I've heard much from you, especially in the past few days.
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Original Message:
well, i have no intel other than what i posted in the thread. i don't play the game behind the scenes. so i'll look for your info in there, if ever you post it.
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Original Message:
What will catch our mayor is if he slips up a DT check. That doesn't require thread information. I just don't BC to have the bus driver excuse when I press him for a specific role check, if you know what I mean. Right now I'm just trying to gather intel from others on him. When/if I catch him I will post everything.
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Original Message:
i think you should be posting in the thread if you suspect our mayor, because that's what will help the town.
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Original Message:
Knowing that you are a responsible player, I would like to know your thoughts about the current situation. I have received some information that makes me doubt BC's legitimacy. What do you think? 3. i wasn't downplaying malongo's death, get over yourself. all i said was that it wasn't based on some fantastic move from the town. the guy was inactive, and he was modkilled. that took no skill from anyone. period. 4. i said it seriously, seriously sucks that zona is gone. nothing to do with you, friend. 5. i could give a damn what you think about my language. seriously. feel free not to read my posts. getting your panties in a bunch over some jokes and sarcasm. it's not personal, so why so sensitive. Sorry, I didn't mean pms I meant posts The second and third in the trio I quoted. Doesnt seem like you read my explanation on Malongo but ok. At this point I'm less sure about you than the others. At this point I'm leaning XeliN. What does everyone else think? On March 17 2010 13:07 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 12:57 Bill Murray wrote:
I feel like you all should keep me around based upon my alignment, my activity, and my ability to catch reds.
First, I am green. You can not be sure of this, but I am. I promise to not ever play another mafia game with you all if I am not green or black this game. I am yearning for a town win. I am comforted by incognito promising that the officials have their acts together. I have put heat on people that are red. I do not see how that I am even being considered for a lynch target.
I am a very active participant in the thread. There are many people with posts that you could count on your hands. I have had more than that on one page of the thread. Now, I'm not saying that my spamming is good, and starting with this post I'm going to attempt to begin consolidating my posting style again, like I tried to at the beginning of this thread, but if you'll notice in the thread it has shifted more towards course of action as opposed to FoS and putting heat on people. I feel like that my posting shifts with the current mood of the thread. The better the people are posting, and the more information they are giving out, the more I will take the game seriously and post like a champion.
I feel like that in a late game scenario, in which I am green, there is 1 red, and there is 1 medic, I will vote correctly a better percent of the time than almost anyone. I have a great instinct and intuition for scummy behavior over time. I am a great judge of people's character over time. The more information I have about people, the better I can do in relation to analyzing their thought process and their overall alignment. This requires time, and that requires me to live.
Think about what you all are doing. You are really arbitrarily wasting a lynch. There are 17 better candidates in my eyes, as I am the only person I am sure of. Quit talking about how you're so good at finding the mafia. Go find them. Like L said previously in response to ~OpZ~'s long defense posts, defending yourself doesn't do that much good unless you have a solid case. Sadly, you don't. So instead of trying to defend yourself, start generating some content. That makes us way more likely to not lynch you than if you just sit here spamming "IM GREEN" all day. On March 17 2010 13:10 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:00 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?
It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs. The problem is Incognito, you keep making very obviously bad arguments. Coming from you this is confusing. Perhaps it's fine from L, but not you. Here's why what you say above is wrong: as a mafia-aligned bus driver, your real power right now would not be busing people around, it would be information and access to a trusted circle. I am seriously tempted to say that lynching one of you is the best move, just to confirm the color before we go forward. Especially if L goes back to obnoxious shit like this: On March 17 2010 12:40 L wrote:
Ah incog you're dumb. Don't tell them shit. Can you point out my "obviously bad arguments"? I might be able to explain them. Has anyone important died? No. Well, not besides Zona. But that would kinda be expected from the mafia, no? Either way, as a mafia, I'd be way more inclined to just silence the people who roleclaim to me with bullets instead of trying to goad them, waste my powers, AND telling this all to the town. On March 17 2010 13:11 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:05 Bill Murray wrote:
xelin is green just like i am, that's what i bloody think. Why. On March 17 2010 13:18 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:11 Bill Murray wrote:On March 17 2010 13:07 Incognito wrote:On March 17 2010 12:57 Bill Murray wrote:
I feel like you all should keep me around based upon my alignment, my activity, and my ability to catch reds.
First, I am green. You can not be sure of this, but I am. I promise to not ever play another mafia game with you all if I am not green or black this game. I am yearning for a town win. I am comforted by incognito promising that the officials have their acts together. I have put heat on people that are red. I do not see how that I am even being considered for a lynch target.
I am a very active participant in the thread. There are many people with posts that you could count on your hands. I have had more than that on one page of the thread. Now, I'm not saying that my spamming is good, and starting with this post I'm going to attempt to begin consolidating my posting style again, like I tried to at the beginning of this thread, but if you'll notice in the thread it has shifted more towards course of action as opposed to FoS and putting heat on people. I feel like that my posting shifts with the current mood of the thread. The better the people are posting, and the more information they are giving out, the more I will take the game seriously and post like a champion.
I feel like that in a late game scenario, in which I am green, there is 1 red, and there is 1 medic, I will vote correctly a better percent of the time than almost anyone. I have a great instinct and intuition for scummy behavior over time. I am a great judge of people's character over time. The more information I have about people, the better I can do in relation to analyzing their thought process and their overall alignment. This requires time, and that requires me to live.
Think about what you all are doing. You are really arbitrarily wasting a lynch. There are 17 better candidates in my eyes, as I am the only person I am sure of. Quit talking about how you're so good at finding the mafia. Go find them. Like L said previously in response to ~OpZ~'s long defense posts, defending yourself doesn't do that much good unless you have a solid case. Sadly, you don't. So instead of trying to defend yourself, start generating some content. That makes us way more likely to not lynch you than if you just sit here spamming "IM GREEN" all day. I have the best defense in the world. I'm green. You want to put your head up for execution when I flip green? No? I wonder why. Because you know I'm town aligned. Thats it. I'm done with you. I gave you a chance, and you ignored it. On March 17 2010 13:27 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:14 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 13:00 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?
It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs. The problem is Incognito, you keep making very obviously bad arguments. Coming from you this is confusing. Perhaps it's fine from L, but not you. Here's why what you say above is wrong: as a mafia-aligned bus driver, your real power right now would not be busing people around, it would be information and access to a trusted circle. I am seriously tempted to say that lynching one of you is the best move, just to confirm the color before we go forward. Especially if L goes back to obnoxious shit like this: On March 17 2010 12:40 L wrote:
Ah incog you're dumb. Don't tell them shit. Still can't understand why the "other DT" would trust Incognito, the un-confirmable bus driver, over L, who he got to personally check. Another thing too: Ace dropped from this game because he thought it was too town-imbalanced with ONE DT in office, given the two body-guards, medics and unlimited checks. Now we're told there are TWO DTs and a town-allied bus driver? Why would Flamewheel do that? It makes no sense to me. Sorry to keep harping on this, but if Incognito (or, as a remote possibility, all 3 of you) are red, we're screwed. Of course, if you're all true-blue all's great. I'd love to be able to believe that, but I can't do it yet. Yes, I was wondering why he didnt claim to L either. I think it was something related to not trusting L/ thinking L would leak. Bad reasoning, I know, but I think it was a blind faith claim. But hey, we know a bunch of people who've claimed blindly. Yes, this game is hillariously imba. But totally awesome if you're the driver. Unfortunately, the role will probably be never used again since its so imba. If I'm red, why would I need to hit the BGs? If I already have BC in the bag, why would I need him dead? On March 17 2010 13:30 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:22 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 13:14 L wrote:
Please fucking ignore him incog. Its pretty obvious that he's guilty as shit.
Focus on important matters; If you trust me, Its claim time.
DTs: Night check information from night 2 please.
Bus Drivers and Medics: I can understand you guys being afraid, so I won't be dropping the hateraid on you if you don't claim, but we need to co-ordinate protection for the next night. Its REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. So give me a shout if you think I'm legit, which you probably should if you've read this thread for long enough. L, how about this: lynch me today. If I turn red... good riddance, you get to move on. If I turn blue, the town the uses the 2x lynch on you and Incognito. He is the un-confirmable bus driver who already used his powers anyway, and you supposedly wanted to be blown up anyway to kill your great targets and help the town. I don't mind being lynched one bit if it helps the town confirm both of you. On your end, this is the 3rd time you call me red. Back your shit up and vote for my lynching. Why do you feel the need to be so defensive when we obviously have a bunch of other better targets to lynch? On March 17 2010 14:34 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 14:28 Bill Murray wrote:
I really don't know if I even enjoy playing mafia anymore. I'm the most obvious green in the whole thread, and people are simply voting for me because i'm an easy target. It's not even fun when people are all elitist and shit. Sure, you all may have more games under your belt, but that doesn't make you better than me. The elitism isn't what gets me though, it's the people who blindly follow them and bandwagon onto votes. This shit has got to stop. I wasn't elitist. I told you what you could do to help a few pages back. If you choose to ignore our suggestions, then don't come back yelling about how we're unfairly voting you. Saying I'm green doesn't make you green. Saying you don't lie is just circular logic. The way to prove yourself is not stating you're green. Its by producing content. On March 17 2010 14:41 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 14:36 Bill Murray wrote:On March 17 2010 14:34 Incognito wrote:On March 17 2010 14:28 Bill Murray wrote:
I really don't know if I even enjoy playing mafia anymore. I'm the most obvious green in the whole thread, and people are simply voting for me because i'm an easy target. It's not even fun when people are all elitist and shit. Sure, you all may have more games under your belt, but that doesn't make you better than me. The elitism isn't what gets me though, it's the people who blindly follow them and bandwagon onto votes. This shit has got to stop. I wasn't elitist. I told you what you could do to help a few pages back. If you choose to ignore our suggestions, then don't come back yelling about how we're unfairly voting you. Saying I'm green doesn't make you green. Saying you don't lie is just circular logic. The way to prove yourself is not stating you're green. Its by producing content. I'm producing more content than 90% of the people playing. I guess you're confused about what content means. How about for a start, you do what you did in that long post early in the game where you posted your suspicions. THAT was content. Right now you're just spamming useless claims. And no, you're not the same case as Abenson. Unlike Abenson, we have some solid information on you. So you can't claim the same defense I used for Abenson. On March 17 2010 14:44 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 14:42 Bill Murray wrote:
I'd like to know how in the fuck you have information on me when i'm green. This. On March 18 2010 01:57 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 16:11 Bill Murray wrote:
BloodyC0bbler Votes: 8
Vivi57
tree.hugger
Incognito
Zona
Fulgrim
Iaaan
johnnyspazz
CynanMachae
Incognito Votes: 7
Versatile
Abenson
XeliN
Fishball
madnessman
JeeJee
Bill Murray
It is a critical point of the game. I am trying to help you all. You can drastically improve your chances with 4/17 or 3/17. You have a 0% chance of 3/17 if you lynch me. I am a town member. I hope the town can finally see that since I am trying to be helpful, and to want what is best and good for this town. I'd love to win.
If I was looking for a red, I would definitely be looking at where people voted, posts someone has made, and where the person was aligned. To me, it looks like it would be someone who was voting for L. The fact that L claims that mafia won't vote to try to get someone into office, and was generally mad about losing the election in which he really wanted pardoner while scummily claiming he wanted to be mayor. L was the true mayoral candidate, and tries to clear his name forcing Malongo to die since L posted right after Malongo's candidacy that he was probably the Mafia candidate. He would be cleared of the format, and made into Godfather by his team where he was the only veteran. L would then proceed to pick Mad Hatter because it is only accounted for posthumously. Malongo could say that the epic Chilean Earthquake devastated his IP and voila he would at most have a 1 game ban if any at all depending on the host.
L then goes on to say RC me, Bus me, Focus on me I'm clean, and would have been saying "I pardon my red buddies." If I hadn't been a thorn in his side for that one, too. Glad that wasn't a vivi 2.0. By confusing the people in office and bein the one privately pming them whispering in their ears like wormtongue he can abuse them into doing what he wants them to do. He is being very manipulative having you all kill a person who is trying to help the town win moreso than any other player!!!!!!! Don't let him manipulate you. Be strong. He's wanted to kill me all game people!
The Mafia will try to hide my post, trust me, this will get spammed to death if not tonight, before everyone wakes up. L is over 5% likely to be mafia, (1/18) and I am 0%. This is the only knowledge I have to impart to you all. I understand that you all believe that people say this no matter what their color, but I am seriously not a liar. I have been blue once, and I roleclaimed detective day 1 in a pm... maybe night 1... yeah. lol. I don't know what I'd do as red, because i haven't been blessed with being red yet.
I say let's lynch L, see if I blow up, and then if he's red and we improve by 6% vs 4/17 (3/17), awesome. If he's really the mad hatter, we see fireworks, more awesome.
I am open to other targets, but he really does have a strong case against himself.
Thank you for posting. Sadly, this wall of text says nothing. You include an abhorrent misuse statistics, base your accusation on a conspiracy theory against L, and really fail to use any solid logic. I agree with tree.hugger. Fairly suspicious character imo. If you think you townies can slack off because all the blues have it together, you're wrong. Just because we know the blues doesn't mean its insta win. Come out and prove your innocence so we don't accidentally lynch you. Don't wait until you feel the pressure to defend yourself. It just makes you look more suspicious.Honestly Bill, why are l10f's and madnessman's posts more suspicious than you/XeliN? Don't say "because I'm green". XeliN: Show nested quote +In my own opinion I have improved at this in general the more games I've played, not actually been great at catching mafia, quite the reverse, but have been good at identifying town just on the way they post. This is as incriminating as d3's observation. As you know, the mafia know who is and isn't innocent. It wouldn't be hard for you to magically know who is town and who isn't if you were mafia. While this is not solid and incriminating in itself, it can't be ignored. Show nested quote +If you thought it was a bad idea THEN SAY SO, don't bring it up at a late point in the game as a reason to lynch me. I'm not saying that enforcing activity is a bad idea. In fact, I strongly support anti-inactivity measures. However, this is not about policy. It is about consistency. You have been anti-activity from day 1. But you haven't been the most active yourself. And the activity you do have is quite suspicious. I'm not trying to lynch you because you had an anti-activity stance. I'm accusing you because your words contradict your actions. Like BM, stop defending yourself and start producing content if you want me to believe you. Show nested quote +At the time he was someone I was considering as well but apart from his runnning for mayor and going inactive there was little else to suggest his being mafia so I wanted you to provide your reasons. Your post asking for reasoning on Malongo....was already given by the time you posted this. And if you suspected Malongo initially, why did you vote for Abenson? Why did you ignore mentioning Malongo in the post above? You mentioned voting for Abenson because "he has not even posted recently and as far as I can tell has contributed nothing". The same holds true for Malongo, and Malongo was even more suspicious given that his behavior was different from previous games. Given your generic reasons for voting Abenson, you did not take the time to look at other equally suspicious people, and decide to ignore Malongo even though "there was little else to suggest [Abenson]'s being mafia" either. And yes, you might want to bring more attention to a fellow mafia if you knew that that mafia was inactive anyway. Or if you thought that your supposedly harmless question could get people to doubt lynching Malongo. Either way, I'm considering changing my vote to the Godfather. What do you all think? On March 18 2010 02:17 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:06 Bill Murray wrote:
Also, there's no way in hell anyone can know Incognito's alignment. He doesn't even know it himself. He's neutral. He could be like the secret nazi, he could be town aligned, or he could be mafia aligned. There's really no way that anyone can know this. I know my own alignment. On March 18 2010 02:21 Incognito wrote:
Lol.
1. Where's your proof that he knew l10f was online.
2. This: "The likeliehood of me being mafia is 0%" is not logic. On March 18 2010 02:25 Incognito wrote:
Oh also Foolishness come out here. Thanks. On March 18 2010 02:29 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:27 Versatile wrote:
someone wanna explain the push for the dbl lynch?
oh grand town leaders, with brains the size of peas....ermm, eggplants, uhhh, cantaloupes...yeah.... who are the two suspects you hope to lynch with a dbl lynch? hmmmmmm? Before answering this question, who are your top suspects? Don't you think that given that we get 2 DT checks tonight and have a bunch of fishy inactives we'll find someone to lynch? Did you run out of suspects to lynch now that you can't attack BC anymore? On March 18 2010 03:35 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:56 Versatile wrote:On March 18 2010 02:29 Incognito wrote:On March 18 2010 02:27 Versatile wrote:
someone wanna explain the push for the dbl lynch?
oh grand town leaders, with brains the size of peas....ermm, eggplants, uhhh, cantaloupes...yeah.... who are the two suspects you hope to lynch with a dbl lynch? hmmmmmm? Before answering this question, who are your top suspects? Don't you think that given that we get 2 DT checks tonight and have a bunch of fishy inactives we'll find someone to lynch? Did you run out of suspects to lynch now that you can't attack BC anymore? will you stop being an idiot for two seconds? listen. any decent player with half a mind would seriously question BC and how he's decided to play this game. you might not like my methods, but the intent is there. BC is an invincible DT and has played this whole thing scared. he's a freaking invincible DT! do you know what the means? he can take risks. he can act more freely. he could have sown this thing up so long ago it's ridiculous. he played vague, he was uncooperative, and he did not lead the town in the thread. i cannot believe you're surprised at how much i questioned him. a supposed DT mayor who has done nothing to prove it to the town out in public? gtfo. i don't trust all willy nilly. that's how you get screwed, and he didn't prove shyt in the thread. secondly, you're exceedingly narrow-minded for not understand why i have seriously questioned BC. you guys have played this entire thing behind the scenes. that's fine. that was your strategy. however, when you come in the thread and come at me because i'm not on the same page as you, please realize you're being ridiculous. it's like, the equation is (2+4) * (5+6) in the thread so here i am thinking the answer is 66, but there's another part of the equation in PMs that says divide by 2, and i'm supposed to know the real answer is 33? well, dumbass, i don't get where you're coming from because i don't have the all the information you do. so don't expect me to magically come to same conclusions as you. and no, i'm not going to sit back and just trust you know what you're doing because i'm not a sheep. and as a general comment, i don't know how many times this can be said: playing the game in PMs ruins it in so many ways. sure, it's useful in moderation. but seriously. take a look at this thread. this game has been incredibly slow. when information is shared with the town the game is more exciting and more fun for everyone involved. it also gives the mafia a fairer chance, especially in a game that is this much towny favored. it's not about the cool kids table. it's about making this enjoyable for everyone involved, and giving everyone the chance to get better at it. seriously, if you keep writing off some players as stupid or worthless, and don't bother to try to help them learn, the quality of these games will never improve. i've been here for three games and it's the same idiots being tricked by the same idiots and leading the town down the road to hell regardless of what anyone's role is in any given game. oh, and i guess i'll take this moment to sincerely apologize to anyone whose feelings i may have hurt. it's just a game. i attack people's posts and logic because that's what you do in this game. i don't care who's name is attached to the post, so don't take my jabs and jokes seriously, it's all in good fun. now i'm going to go back to trying to find a way out of this game that doesn't get me banned. I'm not attacking you for attacking BC viciously. Yes, attacking BC was justified. I even doubted him at once. But you have ONLY attacked BC. You don't offer any alternatives. And I just asked you who your top suspects are, and you give...nothing. Don't expect me to just hand you free information. Both Zona and I have stated plenty of times how the town can help. But all these same people keep doing the same things. Popping up just to defend themselves insufficiently, then disappear. Or not, in the case of Bill Murray. Its not our fault if people refuse to take the advice. On March 18 2010 10:21 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 09:36 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 09:25 L wrote:On March 18 2010 09:14 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 09:02 L wrote:On March 18 2010 08:26 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 06:44 L wrote:
There's no reason to protect incog at this point. There's no way to confirm him and his two bus shunts are used. He's the equivalent of a green, kinda. 100% of medic protection should be on BC unless we set up a driver. If I die, whatever, that speeds up our rape train a day.
Being frustrated isn't a reason to de-rail a town rape train. If you feel like you have nothing to do, go look at your number 1-3 suspects and go check how they act in prior games, then report your findings here.
Pretty sure Incog proved his two bus shunts in his post where he explained everything. At the very least he proved he used one. If he's mafia, why would he waste away using his drives all for the benefit of the town? If he's mafia, the only useful thing he can do now is vote (and possibly cause town chaos but that's very unlikely). BM, if nothing you say will convince the town that you're green than there's definitely nothing I can say that will convince them either At the very least, we have a coordinated town with two DT checks coming up (assuming they don't die) and a mad hatter with hopefully smart bombs placed (and who's hopefully not a GF). Even if BM turns up green there shouldn't be a problem wrapping things up in subsequent days. Although I'm sure going to have a field day defending myself if BM turns up red. Why would he waste 2 shunts? To gain information regarding the medics, dts, and such. Who am I having protected tonight? Who am I bussing? If he is in contact with mafia they'll know and they can act accordingly. Once our medics are killed and our drivers are out of drivin' juice, both our DTs will die shortly thereafter. Once that happens, our circle stops growing and the 'clock' essentially stops. If we've checked a GF, we're in even more of a pinch. Either way, you aren't stupid. You knew this. It was explicitly stated by someone else earlier. Why would you advocate protecting incog over a fucking CONFIRMED DT if incog is essentially a town leaning green who can't be confirmed at this point? That's not to hate on him; he's played well and if he's town aligned high five to him. Its just that we have more important treasures to safeguard from red hands. Yes, I can see your concern with this. But if he's mafia, the mafia loses more than the town does. Okay, say Incog is mafia and has access to all this information. He doesn't have any drives anymore. Mafia has to waste hits to kill the medics BEFORE they can get the DTs. That's two (or one I guess in worst case scenario such as they stack hits) more checks to confirm innocents or find the mafia before the DTs actually die. Plus, who's to say that Incog knows the medics? I would assume BC does at this point, but he doesn't have to share that. If BC has the medic coordinated Incog's knowledge is next to useless. The only thing Incog can provide is another vote for mafia. And hey, there have been two confirmed switches so far. If Incog is mafia bus driver, we got another bus driver to utilize, who probably has at least one more switch. Not to mention you have bombs. There's probably a vigilante/veteran around. And you seem to have misunderstood, I did not say I advocate protecting incog over BC. No way. It's going to be the third night. If mafia have to stack hits on the third night that's a good sign for the town. Not to mention there's already a clear idea on who the mafia are based on inactivity/useless posting. Yeah that probably includes me to an extent. But there are also quite a few people who we can safely rule out as being mafia because of their activity (at least in my opinion). Even if it comes down to the fact that we don't have DTs, it's not going to be game over right away. It's only the third day: we have double lynches, we have targets, all the blues are alive minus the bodyguards, and one mafia is already dead. You make the situation seem really grim if Incog is mafia bus driver. It isn't. Sorry, but that's bullshit. 1) Mafia wouldn't know who the second DT is. 2) Mafia wouldn't know who the medics are. 3) Mafia wouldn't know who my bombs are on. Etc. Taking a single turn to net TWO MEDIC KILLS is not a small thing. Nor is following that up with TWO DT KILLS. the alternative is that mafia guess who the DT and medics are and channel a hit per night using the driver. 2 DTs dead with unknown medics vs a full list of blues + medics dead + DTs dead shortly thereafter. You're essentially saying that a single extra day is worth losing all our blues. WRONG.If Incog is pardoner, he might have moved for the double lynch to use the pardoner ability and stop both. I'm not saying we need to kill Incog; he's probably legit. He just isn't getting medic protection over DTs. Sorry. What the hell? Where did I say Incog should get medic protection? I said he shouldn't get medic protection and the DTs should. I just laid out a near worst possibly situation, in which the town still looks good to win. You just said that's all bullshit. GUESS WHAT? YOURE RIGHT! THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF MY POST! CONGRATS! YOUR EGO CAN NOW GLOAT AS YOU MASTURBATE TO HOW AWESOME YOU ARE! Even if Incog was the mafia bus driver, I highly doubt he knows who the mafia are, and I doubt any of the mafia are going to claim to him. You highly doubt I know who the mafia are? Hmm...maybe that's because I'm on the wrong track. Maybe I should vote for you/nemY/tree.hugger/Iaaan. Now am I on the right track? On March 18 2010 11:10 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 11:09 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 11:07 johnnyspazz wrote:
well darn
so does the big 3 have anything to enlighten the townies?
are nemy, iaaan, tree.hugger all mafia? Haven't you been reading the thread? L, BC, and Incog have decided that killing the most obvious green in our town is the way to play the game. It doesn't matter if those guys are mafia, we need to kill innocents. Then who are the mafia O Great One? On March 18 2010 13:28 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +From: Foolishness [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: bill murray
Date: 3/18/10 11:24
Look, I really think BM is obviously green and that killing him is a waste. If you can straight up tell me that lynching him is the right move for the town and that you will get more information out of lynching him than anyone else than I'll vote for him. Informations. I am somewhat at a loss on what to say about this, as you have not yet voted. If you can straight up tell me that lynching (insert whoever you want to lynch here) is the right move for the town and that you will get more information of of lynching him than BM, then I'll vote for him. Anyway, a few stabs in the dark for you: By Lynching XeliN: If red, then BM could be red, but XeliN could have just been setting him up. If green, then we learn nothing. By Lynching d3: Nothing. Uneless you can point out a connection here. By Lynching l10f: Nothing. He's posted hardly anything. By lynching nemY: Same as the above. By lynching sidesprang: Same as above. Unless I'm missing something here? I honestly don't see what we get by lynching the above candidates except for maybe XeliN. Even then, its only if Xelin flips red. Bill has supporters. Foolishness/l10f/XeliN. If Bill flips red, you're under suspicion. If he flips green, I'd still be suspicious of Foolishness calling out a green so easily. When I think there are plenty more greens out there he should have found. XeliN and l10f I can probably let off the hook. So we get to the question, is Bill red. Maybe. At this point I'm leaning toward no. But hey, I'm not voting Bill am I? Show nested quote +From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: voting
Date: 3/18/10 11:34
I don't think BM would be acting like that if he was mafia. He sounds like an obvious townie to me also. I believe Tree.hugger is a good person to lynch, but I think it can wait till tomorrow's double lynch. I don't want to vote for someone who won't get lynched, that would be counterproductive, so I think I'll go with Foolishness or Xelin, both of which I think are more likely to be mafia than BM. Funny how you both pm me. When its L who is orchestrating this lynch. Go bug him instead. Anyway, why do you both pm me defending Bill when you could and should be posting in the thread? Interesting... Anyway, why don't you want to vote for someone who won't get lynched? Doesn't make sense to me at all. If we're all worried about that, we'd all vote the same way. Interesting though, cause I thought a mafia would rather vote for someone who's NOT going to die so they don't get scrutinized for voting a townie. Maybe you don't want to stick out on a list all by yourself? Don't want the mafia to target you for being right on? On March 19 2010 09:31 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 06:15 Foolishness wrote:On March 18 2010 13:28 Incognito wrote:From: Foolishness [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: bill murray
Date: 3/18/10 11:24
Look, I really think BM is obviously green and that killing him is a waste. If you can straight up tell me that lynching him is the right move for the town and that you will get more information out of lynching him than anyone else than I'll vote for him. Informations. I am somewhat at a loss on what to say about this, as you have not yet voted. If you can straight up tell me that lynching (insert whoever you want to lynch here) is the right move for the town and that you will get more information of of lynching him than BM, then I'll vote for him. Anyway, a few stabs in the dark for you: By Lynching XeliN: If red, then BM could be red, but XeliN could have just been setting him up. If green, then we learn nothing. By Lynching d3: Nothing. Uneless you can point out a connection here. By Lynching l10f: Nothing. He's posted hardly anything. By lynching nemY: Same as the above. By lynching sidesprang: Same as above. Unless I'm missing something here? I honestly don't see what we get by lynching the above candidates except for maybe XeliN. Even then, its only if Xelin flips red. Bill has supporters. Foolishness/l10f/XeliN. If Bill flips red, you're under suspicion. If he flips green, I'd still be suspicious of Foolishness calling out a green so easily. When I think there are plenty more greens out there he should have found. XeliN and l10f I can probably let off the hook. So we get to the question, is Bill red. Maybe. At this point I'm leaning toward no. But hey, I'm not voting Bill am I? From: l10f [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: voting
Date: 3/18/10 11:34
I don't think BM would be acting like that if he was mafia. He sounds like an obvious townie to me also. I believe Tree.hugger is a good person to lynch, but I think it can wait till tomorrow's double lynch. I don't want to vote for someone who won't get lynched, that would be counterproductive, so I think I'll go with Foolishness or Xelin, both of which I think are more likely to be mafia than BM. Funny how you both pm me. When its L who is orchestrating this lynch. Go bug him instead. Anyway, why do you both pm me defending Bill when you could and should be posting in the thread? Interesting... Anyway, why don't you want to vote for someone who won't get lynched? Doesn't make sense to me at all. If we're all worried about that, we'd all vote the same way. Interesting though, cause I thought a mafia would rather vote for someone who's NOT going to die so they don't get scrutinized for voting a townie. Maybe you don't want to stick out on a list all by yourself? Don't want the mafia to target you for being right on? Hey buddy, I voted ages ago. Try doing research before making a post, you're making showtime! look good. Right now you're the one organizing the town, you're the most sensible person right now since BC hardly posts. Why wouldn't I pm you? It's my personal goal to make sure I never PM Ace or L in a mafia game, and so far so good, I have no intention to change that. If you want a better reason, L is hardset on killing BM, and has been suspicious of him for day one (and it's not just a vendetta like people say). I don't think there's much I can say that can convince him. You're last paragraph is very wordy and confusing (if it's aimed at l10f and not me then whatever). "Why don't I want to vote for someone who won't get lynched?" What does that even mean? I'm voting for Xelin because I believe he's mafia. This isn't about getting scrutinized later, it's about trying to find mafia. How come the three leaders of this town cannot agree on anything? You even said BM's probably not red yet you voted for him asap and only changed after I started defending him. From my perspective it's like this: you guys are killing an obvious townie. I don't want to kill someone who I believe is a townie, especially when there's a group of inactive players (which is nearly everyone I've said I'm suspicious about). But hey, you're one of the leaders of this town, if you think we should be killing all the active players and letting the 6 or so inactive players just sit around the rest of the game, that's you're call. You accounted for L being the GF in one of our PMs and said we can kill him tomorrow in the double lynch. Might as well anyways yes? He is one of the most active players. Yeah Incognito, you're right. Killing active players is how the town can win this game. Inactives can't be mafia, and are probably all innocent. Mafia must be here arguing against you and spamming the thread. It's so obvious now. Actually right now I'm not organizing the town. I guess BC/L decided to toss me out of the bus once I ran out of driving juice. Either way, yes the last paragraph was to l10f. BM looks active. But he says pretty much nothing. So I consider him on the inactive list. Of course there is a group of inactive players. What do you think RCs and bombs are for? Either way, quit yelling at me. I'm not the one voting Bill. If you feel like it, you can continue with the sarcasm, but it doesn't help your case. Nice job responding to my statements and giving us a wonderful candidate that will give us more information. Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 07:41 Foolishness wrote:On March 19 2010 06:53 XeliN wrote:
Guess it looks like I'm going to be voting Bill, still not considering him as a viable Mafia candidate
Hey haven't you been reading the thread? Incog says we must lynch obvious greens, as it will give us the most information. Here I will summarize what Incog thinks: 1) We kill BM and he turns up red: In that case since I am defending him so hard I must be red also, therefore we kill me next day. 2) We kill BM and he turns up green: In that case, I was defending him because I knew he was green because I am mafia and he's not on my team. So either way, I'm going to die next day. But no matter! We must kill BM anyways! Can't you see how brilliant Incog is? No wonder he's a veteran player! Nope I didn't say to lynch obvious greens. Points 1 and 2 are moot. You're suspicious anyway regardless of Bills alignment. Nope I didn't say lynch BM anyways. Look who I'm voting.
|
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 04:23 citi.zen wrote:
There's a little girl who lives in my head who talks to me and sometimes I talk to her too. That little girl in my head said, 'That was a great paragraph,' I said, 'Yo, Lassie, I don't know if that was you who really wrote that, but that was pretty good if it was.' People who don't know any better might think I'm just talking to myself, but really it's the little girl - there are two of us. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 04:32 Versatile wrote:
yes, but we don't know if we have two DTs, and since we don't know, how do you verify the 2nd DT?
ie) GF claims DT.
gets elected mayor.
DT confirms him as "innocent".
and then mafia member steps up as "2nd DT". only person who can confirm him is the other DT, and by then it's day 2 and the mafia could have hit him, or maybe he decides to use his rolecheck on someone else. so you've got 2 mafia parading around as innocents, and one of them has 3 votes.
i'm just saying, there are too many holes, and it's too risky to elect someone based on just their roleclaim.
and personally, i just wouldn't trust a roleclaim that early, especially from a blue.
if it were me, i'd try to get elected, and if i did, THEN i'd come out and say, "AHA! gotchu hoes. i'm a DT/medic/etc". I'o'no man, U surez ur tail be dift AFTa we piks da' pigz??!? On March 11 2010 04:56 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 04:52 JeeJee wrote:On March 11 2010 04:50 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 04:32 Versatile wrote:
yes, but we don't know if we have two DTs, and since we don't know, how do you verify the 2nd DT?
ie) GF claims DT.
gets elected mayor.
DT confirms him as "innocent".
and then mafia member steps up as "2nd DT". only person who can confirm him is the other DT, and by then it's day 2 and the mafia could have hit him, or maybe he decides to use his rolecheck on someone else. so you've got 2 mafia parading around as innocents, and one of them has 3 votes.
i'm just saying, there are too many holes, and it's too risky to elect someone based on just their roleclaim.
and personally, i just wouldn't trust a roleclaim that early, especially from a blue.
if it were me, i'd try to get elected, and if i did, THEN i'd come out and say, "AHA! gotchu hoes. i'm a DT/medic/etc". I'o'no man, U surez ur tail be dift AFTa we piks da' pigz??!? you know chezinu may post nonsense but at least it's readable nonsense xD Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 04:53 XeliN wrote:
Yeah citi.zen please don't make a habit of posting like this. OMG - I'z B gettn fRamd yo! On March 11 2010 05:32 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Beware, this ain't fool proof. Don't say I didn't tell you. Watch for "green" politicians: Show nested quote +Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.
Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay? On March 11 2010 05:58 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:51 Versatile wrote:
the only reason that post isn't completely useless is because of the corleone quote. Lies/spam/not paying attention. I'o'no. + Show Spoiler +Hint: Corleone the G__F____r. AKA: thus far voting for L. On March 11 2010 06:50 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 06:34 Zona wrote:
Wait - both elected roles aren't immune to rolechecks?
I skipped over that part - this is pretty major change. It's a huge disincentive for mafia to run for the role...unless there are no detectives at all in this game and the whole detective thing is just a red herring. Hmmm... I was pretty sure that's why you posted this: Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 01:17 Zona wrote:
Looks like the game's started - we have to scrutinize the people who run for elections very closely. Otherwise why would these elections be special?? Also, is nobody paying attention to what this means? I ain't explaining it AGAIN. On March 11 2010 07:35 citi.zen wrote:
Face palm... On March 11 2010 09:23 citi.zen wrote:
For balancing purposes I guess some "strong" player(s?) will be Mafia too. If elected likely will choose to be GF and green- so theycan't be asked to perform role specific roles. So we need to be a bit careful. Then again lynchings can't be stopped by bodyguards, so office is less powerful for mafia early on to have an elected official. Late game the extra votes coul matter. On March 11 2010 09:29 citi.zen wrote:
In general, dts are I think hugely imprtant here, given unlimited checks. Keep them alive and we can't lose, ja? They should not try to be heroes night one or do anything hasty. Stay alive and check people. Discretely. A dead dt is worse than a mafia mayor at this stage. On March 11 2010 11:40 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +Yes, some strong players in all likelyhood will be mafia. But it is still good to have strong elected officials. Elected officials are under a lot of scrutiny. They also usually take on a very active role in town affairs. The more they're on the spotlight, the easier it is to catch them if they are mafia. Fine. As mentioned, I don't think mayor/pardoner roles are that great for GF early game anyway, so might as well get one who leaves a trail. Make them work for it. The essential thing is the DT stay alive. As long as that is the case it's only a matter of time. Be smart DT, and stealthy! The good part goes in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
On March 11 2010 11:41 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? AKA: Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:32 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Beware, this ain't fool proof. Don't say I didn't tell you. Watch for "green" politicians: Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.
Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay? On March 11 2010 12:17 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. You're running for office too L. I take it you are not green? On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead. On March 11 2010 12:42 citi.zen wrote:
LOL - you're right, even I hadn't read it that closely. Man, this is pretty sloppy... wtf gives. On March 11 2010 12:45 citi.zen wrote:
That was directed @ Zona. On March 11 2010 14:58 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:57 Fulgrim wrote:On March 11 2010 12:35 citi.zen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +From: Fulgrim [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Bonjour
Date: 3/11/10 12:26
Tu es rouge oui? C'est la verite? J'espere que je ne mort pas la derniere nuit.
Reply Keep'em coming. I'm so proud of typing that without a translator, pure skill alone. My thoughts upon receiving that message were exactly the same: very proud of your French. Duh... On March 11 2010 22:31 citi.zen wrote:
So BC has not denied his roleclaim. The question is: why choose this weird way to come out? Seems it was a slip-up from vivi? But then why would BC trust vivi without a rolecheeck??? BC is a smart player who knows the importance of dts in this game. Why risk it all for one vote??? It makes no sense if BC really is dt to take that risk in a pm.
Any comments BC?? On March 12 2010 02:42 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 01:52 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 01:43 citi.zen wrote:On March 12 2010 01:11 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 01:04 citi.zen wrote:On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia. I would probably vote for bill before you. However, there are two blue claims, so I must vote for one of those. However misguided their actions are to date. wrong wrong wrong why are you voting because they claimed they are not green? That is stupid. Anyone can do that, nobody can be verified. You should vote on those that seem the least scummy/most likely to be innocent. And yes they'll likely end up blue given the format but them claiming so should not be affecting your decision Look at the plans they've proposed, look at their participation in the thread and how they respond to other's questions. I wouldn't be voting for L if I were you You're right: anyone can relo-claim. Would you (or anyone else) like to step up? what's the point? You still haven't answered why you are choosing to vote for the claimers solely because they're, well, claiming. OK, let me slow it down: Claiming a role is not without consequence or cost. It's simply not the case that "anyone can do it", just for fun. Show nested quote +You still haven't answered why you are choosing to vote for the claimers solely because they're, well, claiming This has already been addressed by BC, myself, L, Incognito multiple times. Cliff-note version: * At some point a blue role, unlike a green, can be verified through a night action. * Early to mid game having a blue in office for town >>> having a red in office for mafia (the town kills through lynching, bodyguards are useless). Late game the extra votes matter more for mafia of course. * The DT is pretty powerful in this version, thanks to the unlimited checks. No reason to risk losing them, even if I don't think BC or L are 100% blue. * Even if someone lies to get elected, that position will force them to post more and leave a thicker trail. Generally good for town. * MOAR stuff I don't feel like typing if you're not going to read anyway. Also, somewhere in L's long post there's this: Show nested quote +Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim. Don't do that DT. If you want to role-check him fine, but then wait for further proof before giving yourself away. Keep in mind the GF is only chosen after the mafia already knows if the won/lost the election. On March 12 2010 04:28 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 12 2010 03:59 Zona wrote:On March 12 2010 03:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The original reason for me claiming to three people was to garner votes for my campaign. Basically after elections if I didn't get in, and say 1 of those three refused to vote for me, chances are I would find a tell in their posts leading to one dead mafia anyway. I person not voting for you after your claim of DT doesn't necessarily mean they're mafia. Maybe they don't just trust you. No, but it gives alot of information for me to garner from them based off it. For instance, i can instantly out those two as fishy. Anyone can re examine their posts for tells, and voila information. Its not a fool proof test, but it gets something over nothing. Just to close this discussion: are you saying you were planning to claim publicly anyway, after you gathered some PM intel, and vivi just happened to spill the beans? On March 12 2010 04:36 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 04:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 12 2010 04:28 citi.zen wrote:On March 12 2010 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 12 2010 03:59 Zona wrote:On March 12 2010 03:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The original reason for me claiming to three people was to garner votes for my campaign. Basically after elections if I didn't get in, and say 1 of those three refused to vote for me, chances are I would find a tell in their posts leading to one dead mafia anyway. I person not voting for you after your claim of DT doesn't necessarily mean they're mafia. Maybe they don't just trust you. No, but it gives alot of information for me to garner from them based off it. For instance, i can instantly out those two as fishy. Anyone can re examine their posts for tells, and voila information. Its not a fool proof test, but it gets something over nothing. Just to close this discussion: are you saying you were planning to claim publicly anyway, after you gathered some PM intel, and vivi just happened to spill the beans? Yes OK, that makes it an internally consistent approach to me. You have my vote. + Show Spoiler +None of this means I trust you. However, I am certainly not willing to risk losing a DT. + Show Spoiler +Your treat for the day is another poem of course! + Show Spoiler +Rest ye in peace, ye Flanders dead.
The fight that ye so bravely led
We've taken up. And we will keep
True faith with you who lie asleep
With each a cross to mark his bed,
In Flanders fields.
Fear not that ye have died for naught.
The torch ye threw to us we caught.
Ten million hands will hold it high,
And Freedom's light shall never die!
We've learned the lesson that ye taught
In Flanders fields. On March 12 2010 06:09 citi.zen wrote:
Not "relatively content-free" but completely empty one-liners. Insert gay smiley-face about here. To show I'm a friendly chap and all. Wink-wink. On March 12 2010 06:24 citi.zen wrote:
BC did confirm vivi's story though. He also said he was going to publicly role-claim for himself anyway before the election. On March 12 2010 23:27 citi.zen wrote:
Probably the best written message I've ever seen from you Bill. On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. Also Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... On March 13 2010 08:40 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:45 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 06:37 nemY wrote:
I think regardless of who gets elected the most important thing the DT(s) should NOT do is ROLE-CLAIM to the mayor/pardoner. The chances of one of them being GF is so high that it's just not worth it yet. Unless the DT is telling other people about it too, you'd think a DT for GF trade is good, no? No. I would not trade the detective for the GF in this format. On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? On March 13 2010 12:42 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:12 JeeJee wrote:On March 13 2010 12:03 L wrote:On March 13 2010 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:
jeejee pmed me telling me to change my vote, and I originally wanted Incognito in power anyways. I voted for BC out of necessity so I can make the mafia waste a hit on me later on.
I guess i've finally convinced people not to trust you, and i'm going to admit something now:
I kind of trust you, L.
Sorry that I was so accusatory with you, I sort of had to do that to keep myself alive.
I feel like you're either townie or the bus driver... only like 10-15% chance of being mafia. Well, doesn't really matter. Both you and JeeJee should probably be our next 2 lynch targets. If you believed me, and thought i was the driver, you'd want me sitting protected as pardoner. Incog now has the most BLATANTLY OBVIOUS FISHY VOTE TRAIN that I've ever seen. Bunch of inactives, then a vote swing. Wow. yeah i tried my best to start the swing via PMs because i trust incog, i don't trust you, and if you were mafia, changing votes ahead of time with 3 viable candidates pretty much guarantees that they get who they want in via gradual change themselves (or last-minute wagon if they want to look fishy). at this point, i'm sure they didn't get who they wanted in. but hey if you think i'm mafia and dumb enough to pm random people and ask to change the vote instead of working with my mafia buddies, then what can i say. all mindgamez now How can. You openly say you "trust incognito" at this point in the game? Even he will tell you right now it's based on... nothing. Maybe faith. I didn't have you picked as the gullible kind. On March 13 2010 12:45 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:41 flamewheel91 wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? T_T Sorry. I haven't heard anything from BC so we can't go to night until then... It's all good. My 13h workday is finally over, on the train home, in no hurry since I'll probably crash when I get home anyway. Take your time! On March 13 2010 12:49 citi.zen wrote:
Enogh to start pm-ing people campaigning for him. Say you are right and L is red. Would it make sense to contact unproven people to convince them of that? What are the chances of reaching out to another red? Why does that not concern you? Lol - oopsie...
I mean "yes please" spell out the context. On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! On March 13 2010 13:03 citi.zen wrote:
Tumbleweed s. On March 13 2010 13:07 citi.zen wrote:
Silly, yeah. No way they would kill ZYOU if you make a strong case against one of them. After all, you have protection. But I digress.
What was "the context" again? On March 14 2010 01:06 citi.zen wrote:
Lol- mayor lynching who they feel like but dts and medics roleclaimong and Going by lists others make for them. Nice. On March 14 2010 09:00 citi.zen wrote:
Weak defense L. Feeling guilty about something other than the jeejee lynching? After all, BC decidedthat one alone. As far as I can tell you were still advocating killing BM. It's not like jeejee got hit at night On March 14 2010 09:06 citi.zen wrote:
My team? Are you now saying I should be lynched? For clarity. On March 14 2010 09:43 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 09:23 Foolishness wrote:On March 14 2010 09:21 L wrote:On March 14 2010 09:19 Foolishness wrote:Someone called? On March 14 2010 08:58 Abenson wrote:
This game sure seems slow... NOBODY CARES! On March 14 2010 09:09 Ace wrote:
whew, it sure is getting hot in here! NOBODY CARES!...wait, you're not in this game... Of all the voting that took place, madnessman had the most fishy outcome. He changed his vote 3 times I think (including the time after day ended), making citi.zen's voting pattern look normal. He also tried to change at the last minute to offset the amount of votes going on Incognito. Definitely something strange going on there. While the swing on Incog is fishy as well, JeeJee turning up innocent probably indicates this was not mafia related. Oh, you noticed citi.zen's voting pattern too. Good show. That would be the reason for my suspicion of him, as exemplified in the last two pages. Yeah I called him out on it early in the night (it's in the archives if you care to look). Considering how active he's been the "I'm a confused townie" defense is not very convincing at all. I never played the confused townie approach. In fact, here's what I said in response to your question: Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! Did that help refresh your memory? On March 14 2010 11:13 citi.zen wrote:ROLF - you're right, thanks to his last post nothing of value was lost. First coherent thing you've posted all game. On March 14 2010 13:52 citi.zen wrote:L has been acting like a retard in this game. Perhaps it's deliberate, perhaps not. All I know is that he has made no sense. My head is still spinning over the claim/no claim/will claim later conversation. Let's assume L is blue. After roles were assigned he immediately made a post with a soft-claim about being given a role which really makes him want to be mayor, even dropping the "other DT" pearl in there. Later on he tells Zona he is "on the right track" thinking L was blue/DT. At this point, if he is blue, he is CLEARLY a mafia target. His best chance to survive is to get elected, perhaps by a straight role-claim (worked pretty well for BC; remember BC stated expressly he planned to role-claim before the election even if vivi did not do it for him; he was just trying to gather more PM intel first). Yet L doesn't do this, instead preferring to lash out at everyone who calls him Blue/DT (calls them idiots who can't read, who are probably red too). It is not logical to make it 99% clear for the mafia you are blue, but keep the town guessing (unlike the mafia, the town doesn't know who is town aligned). Why bother to paint a target on your back but then confuse those who can protect you? Then JeeJee gets lynched, and L goes on for 2 pages trying to defend JeeJee's pre-death accusations and his lynching. Since this was BC's decisions, all L had to say was "ask BC, I thought JeeJee was shifty but not top of my list". When I ask him about this defensive attitude he hits back (at me, of course): Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 09:04 L wrote:On March 14 2010 09:00 citi.zen wrote:
Weak defense L. Feeling guilty about something other than the jeejee lynching? After all, BC decidedthat one alone. As far as I can tell you were still advocating killing BM. It's not like jeejee got hit at night 1) Nah, i said JeeJee should also be a target. Woulda preferred BM, but oh well. 2) If your team hits me, you're probably going to lose the game for your team. So tell them to hit someone else. I probably have a medic on me anyways. Naturally, since I point a finger at him I must be red. Fortunately he tells us WHY he thinks I am red as well: Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 09:21 L wrote:On March 14 2010 09:19 Foolishness wrote:Someone called? On March 14 2010 08:58 Abenson wrote:
This game sure seems slow... NOBODY CARES! On March 14 2010 09:09 Ace wrote:
whew, it sure is getting hot in here! NOBODY CARES!...wait, you're not in this game... Of all the voting that took place, madnessman had the most fishy outcome. He changed his vote 3 times I think (including the time after day ended), making citi.zen's voting pattern look normal. He also tried to change at the last minute to offset the amount of votes going on Incognito. Definitely something strange going on there. While the swing on Incog is fishy as well, JeeJee turning up innocent probably indicates this was not mafia related. Oh, you noticed citi.zen's voting pattern too. Good show. That would be the reason for my suspicion of him, as exemplified in the last two pages. Ok, the man has a reason. Let us examine my "voting pattern": Then L (soft?) role-claims. Then BC role-claims, with L saying he never did role-claim. Then changing his mind 20 more times. Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 04:37 citi.zen wrote:
Change my vote to BloodyC0bbler pretty please. With a cherry on top. My final decisions, plainly explained right in the voting thread comes over 24h before Flamewheel's final tally on March 13 2010 11:13: choose to have both BC (clear blue claim) and L (soft blue claim) in office, since Incognito at that point had not claimed at all. Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 08:45 citi.zen wrote:
I change my vote to L (again). I want both of them in office, and BC seems to have plenty of votes at the moment. Throughout the election I wanted elected officials to have blue, verifiable roles. I changed my vote to try to make that happen, as I explain concisely here: Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! Summary: * L's actions during the election make no sense. * His defensives stance after jeejee's lynching is a bit much for me. * He is accusing me (and others, but I only have so much patience to put together careful posts) based on very flimsy "evidence", ignoring obvious and repeated explanations. This is not a pro-town person making an honest effort to figure anything out. * vivi57's last post was oh-so-timely + Show Spoiler +On March 14 2010 10:50 Vivi57 wrote:
I'd be fine with an L lynch tomorrow. I've been suspicious of him from the start and was actually considering arranging a voteswitch off L to make him not pardoner myself.
Now L is going OMGUS towards bill over a clearly town intended wagon. He's either scum pushing for a mislynch to delay the town or he's town still butthurt about being killed last game and trying to get revenge.
But even though I wasn't there, I will stand behind keeping L out of office as a pro town play. He refused to claim as a dt, even denying being a dt completely, all the while talking about the "other" dt. Now he's pushing towards a townie's lynch. Seriously, don't let L get away with this so easily. Following this post L will probably try to call me red once again. He is wrong, and I am curious what he will come up with next. It had better be more innovative than the "voting pattern". + Show Spoiler +In going through L's history to construct this post I can't help but notice how in-sync he is with Foolishness. On March 14 2010 15:17 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:
Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.
Sounds like everyone wins. Interesting suggestion. When we were mafia together 2 games ago you sacrificed a team-mate to gain credibility. AKA - I don't see how Bill's color "proves"anything about you. BTW - ty for letting me live past the first night. On March 14 2010 15:20 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 15:16 L wrote:L, what makes you think Bill Murray is mafia? Read the thread. Also: Why would you give it weight? Because unlike in the last game, where I all but claimed Gambino in the thread when Gambino were down, I'm town. If I'm not, there aren't ulterior concerns like keeping the mafia families equal which would motivate us to not kill me. So, put in another way, what's stopping town from accepting my offer on day 3? Pretty much nothing. One more thing: I never directly argued you should be lynched RIGHT NOW. I did say your actions make no sense this game. You are acting totally illogical. Your latest comment does not help your case any. On March 15 2010 01:54 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 01:07 Bill Murray wrote:
It's possible the mafia felt L would be medic protected. That's part of what is hard to comprehend: now the medics have bodyguards to protect, and possibly other blues/active people. Yet L is still shifty, refusing to claim anything and content to just hit back at whoever accuses him. How does this make sense if he is affraid of being a mafia target and the medics are busy? How about this weird "trade" offer he makes to me: Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:
Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.
Sounds like everyone wins. L keeps bringing up the bus-driver - hinting that perhaps that is his role. This is the description of the bus driver from page 1: Show nested quote +Bus Driver
Twice per game, you get to switch the actions on two players. For example, if the Bus Driver switches A and B, where A and B are players, and A is killed and B is role checked, A will be role checked and B will be killed instead. A Bus Drivers' alignment is ambiguous. That means they can be town-aligned, mafia-aligned, neither, or both. Read the last part again: town-aligned, mafia-aligned, neither, or both. Question for flamewheel: is the bus-driver gets role-checked, is his alignment revealed, or just the role? Does the driver have free-choice of alignment? On March 15 2010 04:15 citi.zen wrote:You're right: everyone has problems reading other than you, of course - hence you quickly detected my "voting pattern". Oh wait, now it's not the "voting pattern" (what happened to that theory by the way - have you moved on?) that bothers you about me, it's the "rage": Show nested quote +I can understand you making it repeatedly until now because you're a rather rage filled player (as evidenced by your reaction when we didn't make you GF when we were last mafia together: you stopped talking to our team and basically got yourself killed), but please don't dig yourself any deeper by using the same mistake repeatedly. I moved on a long time ago. Did I attack you last game at all? No, because you weren't acting scummy and made some sense. + Show Spoiler +The GF decision 2 games ago did not bother me because I was not chosen. It bothered me because it was changed last minute, without consulting the rest of the team. After it happened I tried to understand why we weren't talking to each other and never stopped talking to the team: some of you just refused to used anything other than IRC, even though we had a message board set-up and I repeatedly reached out to many of you in PMs. The very night before I was killed I even sent you this message: To: L [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Plan
Date: 2/21/10 12:27
This is where I think we stand:
Ver has a lot of info. He most likely knows I am Gambino. He has been very cold in PMs and clearly does not trust me. He may also have info on others as well, and is saving a few "sure hits" until the end / to keep balance between the mafias as needed, perhaps using 2x lynches.
We must act immediately, while we still have high KP, to kill Ver. This is our only chance to keep the town from winning. We need to do this with the help of the other mafia family. Going after him alone is madness.
I propose I contact QS and propose EACH family use TWO hits on Ver next night. The S family should like this, since it basically gives me away AND gets them rid of Ver.
At the very least we gain some time while the town is less organized.
Is this crazy? Is there another way I am not seeing? Note that at that point QS was DT confirmed to be in the other mafia family. You turned that offer down, I got killed by the other mafia anyway and you used 2 hits on Ver by yourself. We lost the game. Bad communication you say? You still aren't making any sense L. But that's OK, it will all get sorted out sooner or later. It should comfort you to hear that I am done talking about you for now. On March 15 2010 04:18 citi.zen wrote:Moving on to BM, I've said many times he is now way more articulate than in any previous game (or TL thread for that matter), and acting very differently. I don't know if this is incriminating, but I would not be one bit surprised if he was red, as I said to him in PMs: + Show Spoiler +
From: Bill Murray [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: mafia
Date: 3/12/10 04:54
who are the 5 at the top of your list?
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
:-)
We will see. In the meantime I am more interested in people's weird behavior this game. Half aren't reading, many are roleclaiming, wtf is going on.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
well, i'm either green, blue, or black
pick again!
lol
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Original Message:
If it's any consolation, you are nowhere near the top of my list.
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Original Message:
lol i don't believe you believe that
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Original Message:
Red
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Original Message:
what color do you think I am?
On March 15 2010 04:52 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 04:29 L wrote:On March 15 2010 04:15 citi.zen wrote:You're right: everyone has problems reading other than you, of course - hence you quickly detected my "voting pattern". Oh wait, now it's not the "voting pattern" (what happened to that theory by the way - have you moved on?) that bothers you about me, it's the "rage": I can understand you making it repeatedly until now because you're a rather rage filled player (as evidenced by your reaction when we didn't make you GF when we were last mafia together: you stopped talking to our team and basically got yourself killed), but please don't dig yourself any deeper by using the same mistake repeatedly. I moved on a long time ago. Did I attack you last game at all? No, because you weren't acting scummy and made some sense. + Show Spoiler +The GF decision 2 games ago did not bother me because I was not chosen. It bothered me because it was changed last minute, without consulting the rest of the team. After it happened I tried to understand why we weren't talking to each other and never stopped talking to the team: some of you just refused to used anything other than IRC, even though we had a message board set-up and I repeatedly reached out to many of you in PMs. The very night before I was killed I even sent you this message: To: L [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Plan
Date: 2/21/10 12:27
This is where I think we stand:
Ver has a lot of info. He most likely knows I am Gambino. He has been very cold in PMs and clearly does not trust me. He may also have info on others as well, and is saving a few "sure hits" until the end / to keep balance between the mafias as needed, perhaps using 2x lynches.
We must act immediately, while we still have high KP, to kill Ver. This is our only chance to keep the town from winning. We need to do this with the help of the other mafia family. Going after him alone is madness.
I propose I contact QS and propose EACH family use TWO hits on Ver next night. The S family should like this, since it basically gives me away AND gets them rid of Ver.
At the very least we gain some time while the town is less organized.
Is this crazy? Is there another way I am not seeing? Note that at that point QS was DT confirmed to be in the other mafia family. You turned that offer down, I got killed by the other mafia anyway and you used 2 hits on Ver by yourself. We lost the game. Bad communication you say? You still aren't making any sense L. But that's OK, it will all get sorted out sooner or later. It should comfort you to hear that I am done talking about you for now. Still angry because we didn't make you GF I see. The majority of people can read just fine, hence why the town now has a group of confirmed members that will be growing as time goes by. By contrast, Its been a very select group of people intentionally misreading things, and interestingly enough none of them are present in the group of confirmed or confirm-able blues. Some of them might be townspeople who are being egged on in pms by mafia goons, but some of them are undoubtedly scum. Its one thing to criticize me. Its another to base your criticism on second hand regurgitations of what I've said. If you are in the confirmed town circle we are in trouble. Maybe we'll get lucky and be ok though. On March 15 2010 08:40 citi.zen wrote:
Agreed, no public circle now. It can easilybe killed off . Also, please remember bus drivers will always come up blue, even when Mafia aligned
On March 15 2010 23:14 citi.zen wrote:The main accusation raised against Malongo is that he hasn't been very active: Show nested quote +Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo. Abenson, the other guy with many votes is... being Abenson as far as I can tell, but also making some interesting mistakes - ie "I think that the most important part is to have the dt's post their results." So if I have to choose I'll go with Abenson at this time, but it's more for lack of better candidates than conviction. On March 15 2010 23:32 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. Ok - who would you lynch instead? On March 16 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 03:58 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 02:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Let's have a look how many people are attacking BC. Is he really that suspicious, or should we be taking a look at two people that have taken to trying to say he is worthless. That's bad for unity people.
who else said he's worthless? don't be grouping me up with anyone else, yo. and fcuk unity, wth is this the special olympics? are we in a queen latifah video? you don't get points just for trying, this isn't high school phys ed. loser. i think BC is playing shady, i think it's shady he was the last viable candidate in the pool for mayor and he somehow won with a convenient DT claim, and i think it's shady he still hasn't posted concrete info to prove he is in a fact a DT. all in all, there's quite a bit of trees in here, and i'm looking for the sunlight. Yeah, the ~Opz~ post was weird. "Unity" and too much shared information among unproven people is a bad thing. Everyone needs to play carefully until we get a breakthrough of some sort, either by catching a red or from the DT(s). On March 16 2010 05:02 citi.zen wrote:
How about ~Opz~ instead of Abenson or Malongo? Both Incognito and BC had him as a suspect. Even L liked him best from incognito's list. I've gone back through his posts and I would be quite comfortable lynching him.
What do we think?
|
Reserved for my Lazy archive posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 11 2010 02:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Do we have to wait till he puts up the day post for people to start running for office? or can we start playing before he puts it up? On March 11 2010 03:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
there is most likely only 1 of each blue role, i would keep that in mind. 2 meds could perma protect someone in this game, so most likely only one. Dt's have unlimited rc's so most likely only 1. Hatter has 2 kp (with bombs) so most likely is only one hatter, or 1-2 vigi's as having both roles would have too high a KP (would be more than the mafia in one night). Possibly 1 vet, millers 1-2.
On March 11 2010 04:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 04:16 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 03:36 Vivi57 wrote:
ok, with this format the detective should roleclaim and get elected as mayor. The second dt can check him on n1 to make sure he's legit. Yes, this leaves some possibility of gf getting mayor as a dt, but we should be able to see through fake role checks soon enough.
With a dt as mayor, we can amass a large group of confirmed townies and use that to win. Ignore anything ace says about lynching all claimers, this move is too powerful to ignore. yes, the DT who we can't confirm should step up and claim it so we can elect him mayor. and ace is not playing. i can never decide if players who play this stupid are just that stupid or mafia who are just that bad. if there are 2dts somehow, you can confirm the person claiming dt if he is elected. Second dt checks first 1, sees dt, and voila. If someone speaks up and says they aren't a dt, you lynch either one of them, and your answer to that question is solved pretty fast. Getting the dt lynched once elected prompts the mafia to basically suicide one member to off the dt, not a terrible trade off. On March 11 2010 04:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
A fake DT is going to get spotted rather quickly. Thats the issue the gf has is if he claims it, and doesn't perform insanellllly well. He dies. Not a good move for them.
I do agree rcing can be risky, but its not the worst idea we could be using. On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. On March 11 2010 12:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:57 Fulgrim wrote:On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. If no greens ran for office though, you would just be handing the mafia a hitlist of the candidates that were running. You'd prob give them 1-2 confirmed blues, one of which would most likely get office if not both. Anyone who has seen a game where a dt made it into office knows how abusive it can get. I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance. I would like to hear the input of some of our "inactive" posters at the moment. The game has not been up that long, but with mayoral voting starting, It's always nice to see everyone at least semi active. On March 11 2010 12:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:17 CynanMachae wrote:On March 11 2010 12:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance.
Nah, it's not 1 in 24, since if any mafia make it it will be the GF. And yea, I also think not only blues should rnun, for those reasons but also as someone mentioned out earlier it's can be better in a lot of situations to have a pro-town verteran that is green than a blue that isn't really as experienced. the math was in reference to being GF, if they flip red you kill them, if they flip green its almost certain they are green. On March 11 2010 12:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:40 Zona wrote:On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead. Considering his sentence includes "the other DT"...it seems like he's claiming DT. The thing is - we probably only have one DT. It's pretty clear that hes outlining a scenario with two dt's not RCing. L will run for office in any game, and specifically said he had a fun role, that would more imply he got a KP role, or bus driver. The example of the "other dt" or "second dt" has already been used by multiple people thus far. On March 11 2010 13:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:25 JeeJee wrote:
so L, you're not an idiot, what do you think implying "hey I'm not green" is going to accomplish, pre-election? It appears that he is hoping to get into office based on "hey im not green" On March 11 2010 13:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:42 JeeJee wrote:On March 11 2010 13:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 11 2010 13:25 JeeJee wrote:
so L, you're not an idiot, what do you think implying "hey I'm not green" is going to accomplish, pre-election? It appears that he is hoping to get into office based on "hey im not green" yeah but nobody's dumb enough to put any weight on that claim, so i'm just wondering what his real reason was for mentioning it. mindgamez'ing the mafia? Really? go look at the votes, and re-read a few posts in the last two-three pages. Its been enough to garner attention. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead. that post for instance just goes to show. No one should be roleclaiming till after the election realistically. On March 12 2010 03:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 02:49 flamewheel91 wrote:
I'm still wondering how the name of "bus driver" came into this game, though it makes for epic lulz. It stemmed actually from an idea of DrH I believe, as the role was discussed when he wanted to host his own game. As to all the roleclaim business. Yes, I did claim to vivi, as well as two others. Now I will outline why. The importance of the DT this game seems to be alot more powerful than most games provided you can get into office. This, as it has been said before, stems from the ability to be role checked yourself (if anyone else is dt). Also, since the bodyguards are publically known, the town can medic wagon them, and slow down the mafia hit wagon. The longer I stay alive in office (if i get it) the more people that end up being checked. Everyone has to remember, that although the bus driver could be mafia aligned, he doesn't know who the mafia is. His ability is much harder to screw people around with than people believe. Remember, if the bus driver says "change player A and B" where in this case player A is the BG we are protecting. The mafia gets butt fucked as well. They target their hit to player A and it hits B as well. The only way around it is to first find the Bus driver (this could take awhile if hes mafia aligned, he could also end up being on towns side, or maybe the role isnt in the game), and then try to plan it out. Vivi claiming for me, although annoying, is slightly needed at this point though. As L has implied he was a DT, and when the chances of two in the game are low, it actually had me to the point I would of had to claim publically to begin with. If we both somehow are DT, it would be easy pretty quickly to determine, but wastes alot of time. (easiest way would be luck checking a miller). It really seems unlikely that there are two of us with the same role, and on the off chance there are, the chances of either of us living without an electoral position now are pretty well fucked. Although it kills the need of a mouth now. The original reason for me claiming to three people was to garner votes for my campaign. Basically after elections if I didn't get in, and say 1 of those three refused to vote for me, chances are I would find a tell in their posts leading to one dead mafia anyway. On March 12 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 22:31 citi.zen wrote:
So BC has not denied his roleclaim. The question is: why choose this weird way to come out? Seems it was a slip-up from vivi? But then why would BC trust vivi without a rolecheeck??? BC is a smart player who knows the importance of dts in this game. Why risk it all for one vote??? It makes no sense if BC really is dt to take that risk in a pm.
Any comments BC?? As i said in my super large post i just made. I am a player who without constant protection will typically get offed earlier rather than later. Especially in a game where as incog stated earlier (believe it was him) that the big names this game are me, L, incog himself, malongo, foolishness. With a few more recognizable names, we have slightly more sway at least at first. So those of us without protection typically die faster, be it by mafia hitting us at night, or town lynching. As for trusting vivi with it, it was a simple choice. Choose 3 people, claim, see reactions. When your not planning on living long unless you get bg protection, and even then, I would have claimed instantly if i got into office, the end result is the same, my role is still known. At least in PM's (although in this case IM's) I would get reactions to give some form of information to the town with. I'm pretty well just doing an all in move that gets me a bit more protection, or dead instantly. On March 12 2010 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 03:59 Zona wrote:On March 12 2010 03:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The original reason for me claiming to three people was to garner votes for my campaign. Basically after elections if I didn't get in, and say 1 of those three refused to vote for me, chances are I would find a tell in their posts leading to one dead mafia anyway. I person not voting for you after your claim of DT doesn't necessarily mean they're mafia. Maybe they don't just trust you. No, but it gives alot of information for me to garner from them based off it. For instance, i can instantly out those two as fishy. Anyone can re examine their posts for tells, and voila information. Its not a fool proof test, but it gets something over nothing. On March 12 2010 04:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 04:28 citi.zen wrote:On March 12 2010 04:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 12 2010 03:59 Zona wrote:On March 12 2010 03:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The original reason for me claiming to three people was to garner votes for my campaign. Basically after elections if I didn't get in, and say 1 of those three refused to vote for me, chances are I would find a tell in their posts leading to one dead mafia anyway. I person not voting for you after your claim of DT doesn't necessarily mean they're mafia. Maybe they don't just trust you. No, but it gives alot of information for me to garner from them based off it. For instance, i can instantly out those two as fishy. Anyone can re examine their posts for tells, and voila information. Its not a fool proof test, but it gets something over nothing. Just to close this discussion: are you saying you were planning to claim publicly anyway, after you gathered some PM intel, and vivi just happened to spill the beans? Yes On March 12 2010 08:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 08:04 XeliN wrote:
Incog when the players are being assigned roles are they given with that in mind, i.e. making sure both town and mafia have veteran players or is it simply random? Depends on the host On March 12 2010 08:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 08:14 Zona wrote:
oops...and I can't edit to remove that and remove my "shame".
Well to make this post useful:
Since there's only 3 people running serious campaigns, and the mafia is likely to have organized a campaign for one of their own - which one (or more) of the current candidates does everyone think is a bit fishy? Also keep in mind that all three of us ran semi quickly. Mafia will usually wait to field someone unless the person running is someone who always runs for office. That still keeps the suspicion on me and L as we typically always run, but mafia don't always run people for office. On March 12 2010 16:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote:So, say you push and really get a campaign going (this is insanely late but ok lets run with it). You start your campaign by talking about the balance sense. Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 08:11 flamewheel91 wrote:
Completely randomized through a number generator. We know from the mod himself, that he didn't balance teams in a sense (or at least is saying he didnt). Having a mafia in office this game only fucks us if hes mayor. And even then a dt role checks him and outs him. It's alot riskier this game for them to be in office if they can get outed instantly. Yes this means the GF could run, but depending on the role he takes on, or based on posting behaviour, this still screws the mafia. Putting the GF out in the limelight is seriously rough. As for your activity point. I think that its hard to judge at the moment. Based on posting, I know im town, and have roleclaimed (even if earlier than I intended), meanwhile, both Incog and L seem to be town as well. This game seems to be slower as it appears as if the mafia has no idea how to discredit us. I think that should be obvious. Yes I'm a nonvoter, I am still deciding on who is best to vote for, I am leaning towards L at the moment though. Now as a question I have for you. Your a veteran player yourself, just as capable of being red for the same reason you outlined of us in your post above. What makes you a better candidate when you have offered no plan on how to even proceed. On March 12 2010 16:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:42 Incognito wrote:On March 12 2010 16:41 johnnyspazz wrote:
damn i might just change my vote so i don't get grouped with scummy looking people Right. Because thats not scummy at all. He could appear to be playing like chez! On March 13 2010 16:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Just got back from work.
Jeejee is being lynched day 1 unless incog pardons.
I was originally going to off a coin flip of malongo/versatile, but since Jeejee was pming me (and i am assuming others) to do a vote swing last minute against L. I have decided to kill him for it.
Green or not, it seems like a very desperate move from a) a mafia or b) a really terrible player.
On March 13 2010 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 17:09 Zona wrote:On March 13 2010 16:58 Fishball wrote:
Uh, why the hell would you lynch JeeJee.
I'm wondering this as well. Although any discussion of this choice now will be tinged by the fact he was town, I would still like to hear your thought process that led to this decision. What are the things you considered scummy (behind his last minute voting stuff?) And also, what are your cases against your other possible lynch candidates Malongo and Versatile? Well, since it's day 1, probably not real cases, but what led you to consider them relatively more scummy than everyone else? The reason for jeejee is simple. As town, attempting a very last minute vote swing is insanely stupid. Just doing it yourself can be retarded, but getting others on board is terrible. L, much like myself, has put himself out into the open far to much so early if he was mafia. Just as I have. Him attempting this last second vote although maybe not the shadiest of things, was insanely terrible play, and also shows he will push his own agenda before that of a town concensus. That behaviour is insanely counter productive. My reasoning for versatile and malongo is just been a lack of substantial posting that I would expect out of both of them. Especially if they are town. Day 1 is usually hard to get red, so I am not sure on either of them, but just expect more. On March 14 2010 12:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 11:21 Ace wrote:
someone actually killed Vivi Night 1?
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Rofl, why would you hit vivi day 1 On March 14 2010 12:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
K, I will be spending parts of tonight, and tommorrow after work (im doing a morning shift, should be home early afternoon PST) and get a list going of people who have done some rather shifty behaviour the last few days. I will try to have some of that post up tonight, but i may drop part of it in the morning before work, and the rest after.
As for the mafia hits, Massive hilarity.
I will have a more comprehensive post up hopefully soon, but as I said, may take me awhile to do.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Reserved for my amazing flashes of wisdom.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 04:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Well this game is off to a great start.
Already we've advocated lynching somebody who's not in the game, horribly miscounted the number of blue roles, and then Vivi57 waltzes in with that amazing analysis.
Does anyone want to be mayor of this town? On March 11 2010 07:52 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote:
I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate.
I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played.
DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on.
Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me).
Elect XeliN ! A natural born politician! Go do the essay, XeliN. On March 11 2010 13:34 tree.hugger wrote:
My vote is for Bloodycobbler.
Subject to change of course. Why are there not more candidates? I feel like the seniority of Incog and L just scared everyone away, and that's the last thing we want is uncontested elections. On March 11 2010 14:25 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:54 Incognito wrote:
These people have come out and have voted or posted in the archive thread, but have made less than 5 posts. This includes pre-game posts.
2. l10f
5. Vivi57
6. Iaaan
9. tree.hugger
Explanations appreciated. I'm writing a paper on Kantian ethics, and reading the thread during breaks. I'll have some more time tomorrow. My reasons for voting for BC are somewhat unsteady at this point, I'll probably change it at some point when more candidates come out. He hasn't roleclaimed to me though, I just am annoyed at L for engineering my death in the last game, and I think you've contributed quite a bit so far, I haven't ruled you out either. But there are enough half baked ideas in this thread to make me wonder who is dictating strategy for who... And this will be my fifth post in the thread at any rate. It's all good. On March 12 2010 06:14 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 05:23 Bill Murray wrote:On March 12 2010 02:21 L wrote:L you are being quite scummy tbh right now. You have to consider the effect of having only blues run for office. It gives the mafia a list of blues, lawl. But surely you know that. Coupled with your "fun role" insinuation which is almost surely not a DT, I have to wonder what you're really doing . . .
It doesn't add up, brah Not really. It seems pretty obvious that a number of the people running probably aren't blue; I didn't tell people not to run if they're green prior to after pretty much all of the competitive candidates already threw their hat in the ring; the question is whether or not they think they should push for the role after thinking about the game format. This game format is interesting because despite the fact that the offices can be confirmed, they can also be easily disposed of because of the bodyguard issues. If cobbler's a DT, I think its best for him to push. If Incog is green, I think its better for him to just step out of the race. If bill murray.. well no one cares there. If one of us are mafia, we're getting elected; Period. The question would be which of the innocents is getting in? Its also possible that no mafia get in if they decide to simply not make a run for office, which happens too. The alternative position, again, is that someone who's green can run for, say, pardoner, then have himself killed in order to get an ordered roleclaim started. I find it unlikely that anyone besides me would have the balls to do this because: 1) Ver's not in the game. 2) Showtime's not in the game 3) Judge is not in the game. The key point, however, is that medics can prevent a lot of mafia kp from getting through; If the medic protects the bgs under attack, it would take 2 full turns to break through the bodyguards, then a doublestack to kill the office member in play. That however, relies on the ability of us to focus our only medic on the BGs, which means that roleclaimed non-office blues present us with protection problems; Unless we have a bus claim to a confirmed office member, we can't really protect both extra and intra office blues. This is why I didn't want people explicitly claiming, and that's why it didn't matter if I said people shouldn't run as green: the candidacies were already in and no one had claimed at that point, so we were ironclad. If you guys think that my refusal to tell you what role I am is presents some sort of odd scumtell; you're retarded. You guys simply haven't been thinking about how to win. There's more to mafia than not have town members die; you need to develop a plan forward with the aim of winning otherwise you lose. This game has no clues, it has no list checks, it has very little kp on both teams. Its going to last for quite a while, so think ahead to days 3-4. Unlike in previous games wherein the game is basically over by then, that's simply not the case here. I personally have a plan that's almost assured to have us win. Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim. That said, there's a potential mafia bus driver problem, but I can get around that if I'm elected by using our bus and a few pms. I'll explain further during the night, and I'll need a few people to trust me, but if everything works out the game's pretty much won for town. How many more times can we quote L's 70 line post on one page? Should we try for a third? I'm a little worried about this three person election thing. I mean, it normally comes down to three people in the end anyway, but it seems like we've just been presented with three candidates who announced really early, and intimidated everyone else into not running. Two candidates have roleclaimed DT, which seems more than a little implausible, especially because both players are veteran players. Incognito is the only person untainted so far, but that really means nothing. XeliN isn't a serious candidate, and neither is Bill Murray either, but perhaps that means we might be better off trusting them? I think rolechecks on our elected officials are paramount early in this game, just to check the assertions these players have made so far. Curiously, if L is said to actually be the detective, there might be more reason to suspect him. It's ironic I think, that BC and L would look more like the godfather if they seem to be who they claimed to be. On March 14 2010 15:05 tree.hugger wrote:Back to the game, and exhausted, but, you know, you've got to make sacrifices to beat back the red scourge. Looks like we got lucky for the first day, nobody really crucial lost. But that said, I feel like these kills don't really tell us anything, which may be why these players were picked to begin with. I mean, Vivi and Fulgrim were hardly the town's most adept mafia killers, and they clearly had no power of their own. I think Vivi's kill makes BC look fairly innocent here, in particular because they seemed to be connected through BC's roleclaim. If Vivi had been blue, then I would've suggested that Vivi had roleclaimed back or something, but because Vivi flipped green, it doesn't seem likely to me that BC would be involved. See if you can follow that logic, I'm not entirely sure it makes sense, had some stuff to drink a couple of hours ago, maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and find what I wrote makes no sense. Oh, and then there's this. Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:
Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow.
Sounds like everyone wins. Which is exactly what you did last game, and I don't believe for a moment. We all know you won't agree to die, and hold up the other end of this gambit if you're wrong, so why should we give it any weight this time? L, what makes you think Bill Murray is mafia? On March 14 2010 15:33 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 15:16 L wrote:L, what makes you think Bill Murray is mafia? Read the thread. I have. I'm not convinced. I'm asking if you have another argument.
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wat. i am going to be soooooooooooo bad @ this. i hate documenting shyt.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2010 07:27 Versatile wrote:
i would think that the only thing that switches are the people, and that the actions are stationary.
IE) person A is protected. person B is hit.
bus driver hits the switch.
now person A is hit, and person B is protected.
i could be wrong though, the mod(s) can clarify. On March 10 2010 07:30 Versatile wrote:
ermm. make that, people are stationary, actions are fluid.
whatever makes the most sense in each of your individual brains. On March 11 2010 04:15 Versatile wrote:
one thing i've noticed in these games is that there's always someone/ multiple people calling for someone to be lynch because of said person's performance in another game.
each game is different, and while someone may just really be a dumbass, i really don't see the point of deciding who to lynch before we've even had elections based on their actions in another game.
let's lynch people playing stupidly and scummy in THIS game. On March 11 2010 04:16 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 03:36 Vivi57 wrote:
ok, with this format the detective should roleclaim and get elected as mayor. The second dt can check him on n1 to make sure he's legit. Yes, this leaves some possibility of gf getting mayor as a dt, but we should be able to see through fake role checks soon enough.
With a dt as mayor, we can amass a large group of confirmed townies and use that to win. Ignore anything ace says about lynching all claimers, this move is too powerful to ignore. yes, the DT who we can't confirm should step up and claim it so we can elect him mayor. and ace is not playing. i can never decide if players who play this stupid are just that stupid or mafia who are just that bad. On March 11 2010 04:32 Versatile wrote:
yes, but we don't know if we have two DTs, and since we don't know, how do you verify the 2nd DT?
ie) GF claims DT.
gets elected mayor.
DT confirms him as "innocent".
and then mafia member steps up as "2nd DT". only person who can confirm him is the other DT, and by then it's day 2 and the mafia could have hit him, or maybe he decides to use his rolecheck on someone else. so you've got 2 mafia parading around as innocents, and one of them has 3 votes.
i'm just saying, there are too many holes, and it's too risky to elect someone based on just their roleclaim.
and personally, i just wouldn't trust a roleclaim that early, especially from a blue.
if it were me, i'd try to get elected, and if i did, THEN i'd come out and say, "AHA! gotchu hoes. i'm a DT/medic/etc". On March 11 2010 04:38 Versatile wrote:
that should say, a supposed "blue". On March 11 2010 04:53 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 04:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
A fake DT is going to get spotted rather quickly. Thats the issue the gf has is if he claims it, and doesn't perform insanellllly well. He dies. Not a good move for them.
I do agree rcing can be risky, but its not the worst idea we could be using. how do you spot a fake DT? this guy could just claim that he invested person A and person A is a townie. i'm willing to bet there's 10+ townies, including the miller possibility. the GF would have a 50/50 chance of guessing a townie and being right and "proving himself". i understand your point, but my point is, why even put ourselves in the position of trying to determine that? i think that using this DT roleclaim plan lends itself to a greater possibility of a GF mayor. we need plans. we need to elect the person with the best idea of how to win this game, not the guy who roleclaims the fastest. screw all the idiotic, supposedly entertaining bids for mayor, with all the pictures and nonsense. someone who wants to lead should step up with a viable plan to win this game for the town, and the best/ smartest plan should be implemented, hopefully by the person who suggested it. ie) if there were elected officials in the last game (and i were playing), i would have voted for 789. even with all of that said, there is still the chance of the GF being our mayor. i'm just in favor taking the route that gives us a) the best chance of NOT having a GF mayor, and b) if we do have a mafia mayor, identifying him as quickly as possible by anti-town behavior. On March 11 2010 05:51 Versatile wrote:
the only reason that post isn't completely useless is because of the corleone quote. On March 11 2010 09:23 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 08:25 Fulgrim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Looking over the rules for the game, it looks like pardoner isn't going to play that much of an important role this game, its more of the mayor that we have to worry about. The mafia want to have the mayor role, and the only way they are going to get it safely is through their godfather. I think its probably safe to say that no "ordinary" mafia are going to be running for office. I propose that we check the mayor on night one, (1-12), and then the other DT(s) 13-25 check town members, because Its important to check the mayor just to be safe, but I think checking the sheriff on the first night (potential gf risk), alot more information and more possiblities to set up town circles. Especially since its not critical if we lose the sheriff role to a godfather, because even if we do there would be no way to tell by simple DT chekcs. quote for future reference. carry on. On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. On March 11 2010 10:30 Versatile wrote:
all this talk about checking the mayor and pardoner is useless.
DTs: you need to decide who you think is most scummy when the election is over; mayor or pardoner. then you need to look @ the vote lists, and decide who you believe to be most scummiest there. the mafia will most likely run their GF, and at least 1 or 2 of them will vote for the GF and they'll show up as red. On March 11 2010 10:33 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? no idea, i just saw that his supporting example was incorrect and pointed it out. On March 11 2010 10:43 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:32 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:30 Versatile wrote:
all this talk about checking the mayor and pardoner is useless.
DTs: you need to decide who you think is most scummy when the election is over; mayor or pardoner. then you need to look @ the vote lists, and decide who you believe to be most scummiest there. the mafia will most likely run their GF, and at least 1 or 2 of them will vote for the GF and they'll show up as red. all of this talk about checking is useless. Maybe we should save it until after the election is over so we don't tell the mafia what to do. agreed. we're getting ahead of ourselves. On March 14 2010 02:00 Versatile wrote:
sorry folks, just got caught up with the thread, haven't had much free time lately. and i knew that might happen, which is why i got my vote in early.
at the time i voted, it was L and incog who were the top candidates and incog read as more pro-town to me, hence my vote.
a couple of things: incog stated he expected more form me in this game. this in itself is not strange, because i'm pretty sure incog is familiar with my playing on another site. however, he called out malongo and foolishness as well. i don't believe malongo has addressed this accusation yet.
however, foolishness not only didn't bother to defend himself to incog or any other player, but went as far as defending incog's post and went back and forth with zona.
this struck me because if zona's not town, who the hell is? check his posts, if i had been around, that's who i would i have changed my vote to.
in any case, i also received an incog PM stating "first". however, i believe the medics need to be protecting zona, and i hope that's what they decide to do.
as i stated earlier, DTs ought to be checking the vote lists. if we have a mafia member in office, it's likely a mafia member or two voted for them, especially with a last minute vote swing, if i read correctly.
i also don't think anyone without protection should be claiming a damn thing to anyone right now. DTs should be investigating and building up their circle in the most secure and legitimate way they can, and it's far too early to be trusting anyone.
going to update my archives now. On March 14 2010 02:02 Versatile wrote:
ps: i'm usually quiet in the beginning of a game so that argument is useless. On March 14 2010 02:05 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:25 Malongo wrote:On March 12 2010 16 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 12 2010 16 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:12 L wrote:
Oh hey, good of you to join the party.
Did you finally get picked for the mafia team? If not, are you claiming blue by running? Who would you kill if voted mayor and who would you like to get voted in if you can't get in?
Sleep time, but I EXPECT ANSWERS. Yeah L i know u like to get people accounted for. -Not mafia. -Not claimming. But i let you search my rol list from previous games and let you think. -I have 2 people in mind: versatile and one of the people running. Ill post tomorrow my reasons if you like to know. Lynching an inactive/spammer is another chance but i think we can get more info from a more strong lynch at first. There has been some back and forth up to now in the thread. -Im voting you. I know i can spot you doing your weird mafia stuff and i also know you are valuable if town. Honeslty id really want to be there, i hope i dont end up kicking you away from a spot but as i said at this point im a very good player to get in. i don't think you came back and posted your reasons and who your second lynch candidate was like you said you would? did they make it into office? unless i missed it, and if i did, my apologies. please point it out to me if you wouldn't mind. thanks. On March 14 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
whoa whoa whoa....where in the US of A does a bar close @ midnight?
let me know so i know never to go there.
partypartypartyletsallgetwasted. On March 14 2010 11:08 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 10:50 Vivi57 wrote:
I'd be fine with an L lynch tomorrow. I've been suspicious of him from the start and was actually considering arranging a voteswitch off L to make him not pardoner myself.
Now L is going OMGUS towards bill over a clearly town intended wagon. He's either scum pushing for a mislynch to delay the town or he's town still butthurt about being killed last game and trying to get revenge.
But even though I wasn't there, I will stand behind keeping L out of office as a pro town play. He refused to claim as a dt, even denying being a dt completely, all the while talking about the "other" dt. Now he's pushing towards a townie's lynch. Seriously, don't let L get away with this so easily. talk about last words...lmao. On March 15 2010 06:23 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 02:42 L wrote:On March 15 2010 01:07 Bill Murray wrote:
It's possible the mafia felt L would be medic protected. More like L knew he was going to be bus driven because we even made it clear in the thread that we had the driver claim to us. As for tomorrow night, I have no idea, I'd rather the driver save his drivin' juice and have the medic focused on the BGs. If the mafia kill me, they'll be proving me legit, which will make a lot of the zero content L-haters on mafia look bad. Either way, the best target for killing tonight is still bill murray. One does not simply walk into vote swings. i don't care about BM, but are you done bitching about not getting mayor/pardoner? jeejee (a townie) was leading the charge for the vote-swing so you wouldn't be in office. wow, he was successful, and then he got killed for it. whatevs. but the fact that he showed up town should at least make people pause about killing everyone he was able to convince. i know you already wanted to kill BM because of the last game, but that's not a good enough reason. fcuk this revenge shyt and play the game. ps all: drunk posting = no bueno. unless it's entertaining. which it wasn't. On March 15 2010 06:29 Versatile wrote:
and for the record, there's a difference between discussing, and crying like little girls.
if you're still trying to get L claim something, you should already have your answer. he's written a freakin' novel in here already and if he was going to do what you wanted-- guess what, he would have already done it.
no one is changing anyone's mind, you all are just going around in circles and it's ridiculous. vote according to what you have taken from reading the thread.
also, don't randomly call out players as potential lynch candidates and then not respond when they address your allegations. if you couldn't be bothered to follow up, it reads like you were trying to get a bandwagon going on someone who wouldn't be around to defend themselves. On March 16 2010 01:18 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 17:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
swapping my vote off abenson, as people have given almost no reason why they are following my vote on him, let alone the fact my case wasn't strong. Moving to malongo with incog wtf is this shyt. you get a bandwagon going on someone and then change your vote without calling for others to change their vote as well? when you're the reason many of them are voting that way? we should be lynching you for being the most worthless mayor. On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. On March 16 2010 03:58 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 02:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Let's have a look how many people are attacking BC. Is he really that suspicious, or should we be taking a look at two people that have taken to trying to say he is worthless. That's bad for unity people.
who else said he's worthless? don't be grouping me up with anyone else, yo. and fcuk unity, wth is this the special olympics? are we in a queen latifah video? you don't get points just for trying, this isn't high school phys ed. loser. i think BC is playing shady, i think it's shady he was the last viable candidate in the pool for mayor and he somehow won with a convenient DT claim, and i think it's shady he still hasn't posted concrete info to prove he is in a fact a DT. all in all, there's quite a bit of trees in here, and i'm looking for the sunlight. On March 16 2010 04:00 Versatile wrote:
oh, and, i wasn't TRYING to say he was worthless. i said it. bada bing. On March 16 2010 04:43 Versatile wrote:
also abenson, he's the other major lynch candidate (besides yourself) so pointing a finger in his direction is good for you.
makes sense, just don't pretend that that's not a factor. On March 16 2010 06:07 Versatile wrote:
umm, i've already voted, asswipe. On March 16 2010 06:39 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 06:37 L wrote:On March 16 2010 06:07 Versatile wrote:
umm, i've already voted, asswipe. I wanted to see if you were around. Look at that. You are. next time you want my attention, just lift your skirt up a bit. that always does the trick On March 16 2010 06:45 Versatile wrote:
wait, L's a girl? that makes my joke not as much fun : ( On March 16 2010 09:15 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 08:18 Incognito wrote:
Back. So Versatile doesn't want to talk in pms, and she doesn't want to offer anything substantial in the thread too. Whats up? If you want to talk in thread here you have it. Its probably too late to talk about lynch candidates, so what do you think of BC? I am personally suspicious of his list he posted. Where most of the targets seem to lack any substantial reasoning. What do you think? ah, good job. i wanted you to state publicly that you are suspicious of BC, instead of "trying to collect intel" behind the scenes. the more of the game that is in the open, the better for the town. hoarding information isn't useful, and it's important to keep everyone as involved in the game as possible, among the many other benefits. my top suspect is BC, and that's who i think the town should lynch. my reasoning being, he's playing horribly as not only a vet, but a vet who is also our mayor. no vet runs for mayor and is this inactive and this unhelpful if they're unless they've got some serious IRL things going on, and BC has said nothing of the sort yet. in my book, being a retarded player is enough to get you lynched in most cases. being a retarded mayor is enough to get you lynched each and every time. i also think that are seriously weak cases for every one of the people up for lynching this round. i wouldn't vote to lynch any of them, as i'm sure they're going to pop up green. i would rather not have a lynch than kill a townie. On March 16 2010 09:17 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 08:34 ~OpZ~ wrote:On March 16 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:On March 16 2010 03:58 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 02:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Let's have a look how many people are attacking BC. Is he really that suspicious, or should we be taking a look at two people that have taken to trying to say he is worthless. That's bad for unity people.
who else said he's worthless? don't be grouping me up with anyone else, yo. and fcuk unity, wth is this the special olympics? are we in a queen latifah video? you don't get points just for trying, this isn't high school phys ed. loser. i think BC is playing shady, i think it's shady he was the last viable candidate in the pool for mayor and he somehow won with a convenient DT claim, and i think it's shady he still hasn't posted concrete info to prove he is in a fact a DT. all in all, there's quite a bit of trees in here, and i'm looking for the sunlight. Yeah, the ~Opz~ post was weird. "Unity" and too much shared information among unproven people is a bad thing. Everyone needs to play carefully until we get a breakthrough of some sort, either by catching a red or from the DT(s). When 4 people come a long and instantly pick shit with one person it just seems like they are trying to incite the mob of inactive townies to go after him. If Versatile and Foolishness equal mob, and go after BC by just saying he isn't doing anything, I think that's suspicious. Why not just pick some other random townie that ran for mayor to make a plan? Why put it on the guy that claimed dt? If he's truthful about dt it would make sense for the mob to want to attempt to get him distrusted. Kk? Get it now? Their are other suspicious people on here, let's look at them. *looks up and sees "united states" besides opz* learn the difference between they're, their, and there before you type my name again, please and thanks. you're a disgrace to the american school system. On March 16 2010 09:32 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 09:01 ~OpZ~ wrote:On March 16 2010 08:39 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2010 08:34 ~OpZ~ wrote:On March 16 2010 04:08 citi.zen wrote:On March 16 2010 03:58 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 02:31 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Let's have a look how many people are attacking BC. Is he really that suspicious, or should we be taking a look at two people that have taken to trying to say he is worthless. That's bad for unity people.
who else said he's worthless? don't be grouping me up with anyone else, yo. and fcuk unity, wth is this the special olympics? are we in a queen latifah video? you don't get points just for trying, this isn't high school phys ed. loser. i think BC is playing shady, i think it's shady he was the last viable candidate in the pool for mayor and he somehow won with a convenient DT claim, and i think it's shady he still hasn't posted concrete info to prove he is in a fact a DT. all in all, there's quite a bit of trees in here, and i'm looking for the sunlight. Yeah, the ~Opz~ post was weird. "Unity" and too much shared information among unproven people is a bad thing. Everyone needs to play carefully until we get a breakthrough of some sort, either by catching a red or from the DT(s). When 4 people come a long and instantly pick shit with one person it just seems like they are trying to incite the mob of inactive townies to go after him. If Versatile and Foolishness equal mob, and go after BC by just saying he isn't doing anything, I think that's suspicious. Why not just pick some other random townie that ran for mayor to make a plan? Why put it on the guy that claimed dt? If he's truthful about dt it would make sense for the mob to want to attempt to get him distrusted. Kk? Get it now? Their are other suspicious people on here, let's look at them. So who exactly are these "suspicious people"? I've done said how I felt about BC getting assailed. While Zona is right, his first goal should be to find a red. He has a point. Cobbler doesn't need to build a town circle. He's the fucking mayor. And protected. He is his own mouth, so he should be checking and speaking, not the other way around. I just found that Versatile and Foolishness, attempting to incite doubt this early was suspicious. BC's own list was rather suspicious, as I was the only person on the list that he went all out on trying to pin as mafia. He's wrong, but I can't prove that myself. Well I suppose him trying to pin me as mafia would make since for him to check me then right? Lol. Why didn't he check me if he already thought I was the most suspicious looking person. Now that I'm thinking about it...If I was suspicious to you (which like I said, BC went all out trying to implicate me), and you are fully protected so you can post if you find a red yourself, why wouldn't you check me. I would never have been voted as GF. -_-...Anyway...No. I just found versatile and foolishness trying to start a riot that early into the day at Cobbler suspicious. Versatile's disappearance after the first day was another big thing to me. But she doesn't post much, right? Lol. here's the thing, dumbass. i'm a pretty smart person. i don't think you know that, so i figured i'd tell you. anywho, even if i were half as smart as i really am, let's say, at the same intelligence level as you for example, i still would not doing ANYTHING in concert with a member of my mafioso family. dur. and what is this disappearance thing you keep bringing up? i was gone for a little bit but i've been pretty damn active ever since, more active than you in fact. i'm making a genuine attempt to be here for the town. in any case, stop trying to misrepresent my posting style. also, i've been attacked by 4-5 people already this game-- now, how likely is it 4-5 separate townies all decided to focus some of their energy on me? maybe 2-3, sure. but more than that is very unlikely. lastly, i'm glad to see your finally questioning your allegiance to BC. i've already outlines why i think BC is shady, feel free to ask me some more about it if you like. On March 16 2010 09:39 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 09:28 Zona wrote:On March 16 2010 09:15 Versatile wrote:
my top suspect is BC, and that's who i think the town should lynch.
my reasoning being, he's playing horribly as not only a vet, but a vet who is also our mayor. no vet runs for mayor and is this inactive and this unhelpful if they're unless they've got some serious IRL things going on, and BC has said nothing of the sort yet.
in my book, being a retarded player is enough to get you lynched in most cases. being a retarded mayor is enough to get you lynched each and every time.
While I agree with you in part, you forgot to mention that he claimed DT: lynching a claimed DT this early in the game is a really bad idea, and I do not like that you suggested it. On March 16 2010 09:15 Versatile wrote:
i also think that are seriously weak cases for every one of the people up for lynching this round. i wouldn't vote to lynch any of them, as i'm sure they're going to pop up green. i would rather not have a lynch than kill a townie. I do agree the cases right now are pretty weak, but this is day 2. But it's almost always better to have a lynch even if we lynch wrong, because lynching gains information with which the town can use to evaluate how people have accused and voted in the past. I also don't like when people say "I'm afraid we'll lynch a townie" because it's something mafia might say, as they know before the lynch whether or not it's a good one for the town. Of course newbie town members will often be unhappy/worry about lynching town members, but apparently you're a respected player here so perhaps more should be expected of you? part 1: how do you feel about lynch a supposed DT mayor who has not been active? seriously, think about it. if you were DT and mayor, what would you be doing? he is not being active. he is not leading. he isn't doing anything DT mayor would do, at least not from what i've seen in thread. you're talking about expecting more from me, how about expecting more from the head of the town? part 2: true we learn information, and that's useful, but imo, it's pretty clear we're not lynching a mafia member. there hasn't been any push to save anyone or change up votes. there hasn't been anything to even hint that the mafia is worried about losing a member, unless incog follows through on the pardon, which he should NOT. the town's decision should go through, no matter how much anyone may disagree with it. in any case, there will be a lynch and we'll get this information you want. and i don't know about being a respected player, i mostly just make fun of people and call them politically incorrect names. but thanks ^_^ On March 16 2010 09:42 Versatile wrote:
zona, you should hurry up and vote so you're not modkilled. On March 16 2010 09:48 Versatile wrote:
malongo has been pretty inactive, but i just assumed he was still dealing with things because of the earthquake. i think he was planning on being active, why else would he run for mayor?
oh well, post should be up soon-ish. On March 16 2010 09:53 Versatile wrote:
L, choke yourself. On March 16 2010 10:00 Versatile wrote:
lmao. the relationship between L and BM is that of the drunkard and abused significant other. BM just won't stop going back for more.
ps: ace is not black, has never been to NYC, and can't even spell caribbean. On March 16 2010 10:02 Versatile wrote:
i'm saying, he lied. On March 16 2010 10:03 Versatile wrote:
ace lied, dimwit. On March 16 2010 10:16 Versatile wrote:
zona- do the math. if BC (plus town) doesn't find a mafia member by day 4, worse case scenario, where the medics don't prevent any hits and we lynch a town member every day, we're 11 v 5. that's 6 successful mafia hits in 3 nights, and 3 towny lynches. now imagine BC is mafia. a DT who hasn't found a red for 3 days, that's not completely impossible, right? that's 11 vs 7 votes, and since when has the town ever voted to together as one?
also, note that this doesn't take possible vigi hits into count, against town or mafia.
we need action way before day 4, and this next day is going to be an important one. On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. On March 16 2010 10:37 Versatile wrote:
note: i was saying "umm no, BM" to his post about people RC to him in PMs. On March 16 2010 10:44 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:39 l10f wrote:On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Are you serious? BC and incog are the two of the last people I would suspect to be mafia. they both suspected Malongo, and even got a lot of people to vote for him. I would suspect those who voted for abenson after BC changed his vote to Malongo. That means they were trying to make sure Abenson gets lynched so Malongo could be saved. lmao. is this your first time playing? or are you that slow? way to paint yourself. On March 16 2010 10:48 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:45 ~OpZ~ wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. -_-...I don't think BC would vote for someone he RC'd green. Do you? It'd be pretty obvious, and I can almost guarantee he would come to that persons defense. So let's not worry about him posting his RC, yet. I'd imagine the person he checked could step forth without BC anyway. oh really? so, let's say i don't trust BC. or even if i do, let's say i want to vote for someone different than who he voted for and i happen to vote for someone he "checked" and is towny; what's going to happen then? is he going to quote me and say, "oh...i wouldn't do that if i were youuuuuuuuuuuuuu!". and at that point, shouldn't he have come out and just told us any darn way? On March 17 2010 00:36 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 15:40 Incognito wrote:
Early game, Bill seems innocent.
End of Day 1, he sounds more fishy. Especially after the "drunk" posts. And repeatedly emphasizing his greenness.
Day 2 lynch final moments, even more fishy. I like L's analysis. Now that I go back to it, yeah, its funny how Bill is pre-emptively trying to show his support in favor of Malongo's lynch before Malongo flips red. While also voting to lynch Abenson. If Bill wasn't suspicious before now, he sure is now.
Other thoughts: I find it interesting how Versatile brings up an ultimatum on BC. Then proceeds to viciously attack the fact that BC isn't announcing people he's checked. Then, when BC responds, Versatile disappears. Something is not right here. The way they're going at each other, I'm guessing one of BC/Versatile are mafia. The question right now is, which one? Good question. Atm BC can be tested more than Versatile given BC's claim.
Zona's strongly pro-town posts seem to make him a good target for the mafia. Plus, Zona is also a BG, so double the goodies for the mafia. This, in my eyes, makes Zona a strong target for BD or medic protection. Good job Zona for making yourself a clear pro-town BG. That just makes it harder for the mafia to decide who to hit. uh, i went to bed. and now i'm checking the thread while getting ready for work. am i supposed to be reading this thread 24/7? you've been coming @ me in a very slick way all game long. you seem to love typing my name. remember when you asked me for my opinion on BC and asked me to post in here? well, i did. i don't remember you responding. were you planning to? are you going to elaborate on your suspicions of BC, especially since you've been "collecting intel" on him through PMs? you set that trap yet,buddy? On March 17 2010 00:39 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 22:27 madnessman wrote:On March 16 2010 09:49 L wrote:Hi, do you still feel the same way about madnessman?
First, volunteering to be killed is a gambit that can be played by both town and mafia members. And I must have missed where you used your blue abilities to prove your alignment. Mang, good quoting skills. 1) He PM'd me afterwards, like I said in the thread and made an emotional "OH FUCK I SCREWED UP SORRY (((((((((((((((((((((((" post. Generally, I've found these scummy in the past, but Ver's a better player than I am when it comes to looking at individuals and thinks this is a typical town reaction to a bad situation. Given that a policy lynch on being a douchebag vote swinger could go to BM or MM, I'd rather it goes to BM, hence my vote. Which is going to stay there. oh gawd. I pm'd you saying: ahh shit. sorry you got screwed over, and that it was partly my fault. do you think that you'll get killed tonight? L, plz don't be such a drama queen. With that said, I am back! On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. LOL wtf is this post. It's definitely likely that one of them is mafia, but we shouldn't try to discern which one of them is by the process of elimination, especially when ALL THREE of them are claiming blue, and as such, there is so much at stake. Surely there's a better way to do this then going "inny minny miney mo" and pointing at one of them? Lol. so what's your suggestion? it seems to me that numerous players agree on the premises that at least one of BC, incog, and L are very likely mafia. it's making it especially difficult to determine who because of the blue claims and the appearance that all three of them, or at least BC and L, are working together right now. how do we determine which one is mafia? do you have a plan? i would love to hear it, as it would help the town. On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor. at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. On March 17 2010 02:32 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 02:07 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor.at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. Lets take a look at these three posts from Versatile. First, she agrees with BC's idea that DTs should only announce red checks. Second post, she decides that BC is pulling BS here when he decides to follow the plan that she agreed with. Third post, I guess she figures that her previous attempt to get BC to spit out the confirmed townies didn't work and is desperate to find another way? Her plan is flawed for obvious reasons stated above. I dont know, but why do you keep switching your views on things that seem like they should be policy no matter what your role? Something doesn't add up here. Care to explain? Also, who do you suggest we lynch tomorrow? Did you read L's analysis of Bill Murray? On another note, On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Downplaying Malongo's lynch. Which fine, it wasn't some awesome convincing analysis. But it was a successful guess. Would the mafia really risk starting a train on Malongo when he hadn't been previously discussed? Sure, he was inactive and a good target to gain credibility, but at this point, they have more issues to worry about then gaining credibility from lynches. Either way, you've mentioned repeatedly that it is self-evident that one of BC/me/L are mafia. In fact you keep saying this as if you're 100% sure that this is true seemingly out of nowhere. Stirring up the town based on a percieved false consensus here? BC's alignment can be tested severely. Yours unfortunately is a bit more difficult. But I guess I'll wait to comment further until you answer this post. 1. that post was referring to an UNPROTECTED DT. i never agreed that BC should keep his checks secretly. not once. go read my posts. once again, stop misrepresenting my what i wrote. this is the same shyt people were doing to L. i have used to the same policy the entire time. i haven't changed my mind. so that point is null and void. 2. lol, are you serious? downplaying malongo's lynch? if i were mafia, what would i gain from doing this? and how was it a successful guess? NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died. that's not a towny victory. that's just bad luck for the mafia. further, citi.zen and L both said the same thing. but it only matters to you that i said it right? 3. i don't understand how you can say that i am "stirring up the town based on perceived false consensus". i am not the only towny who has said this, so there is no perceived false consensus. fact is, it is very unlikely that that all three of you are blue/green. that's what i think, and if you don't like, go cry to someone else about it. now, instead of riding my jock, maybe you'd like to actually post something substantial. cut the "all will be made clear in the morning's dawn when God whispers in your ear" bullshit. you're also an elected official and i don't see you doing much either. in fact, i find it suspicious that you're taking all the heat for BC when you claim to be suspicious of him yourself. what's up with that, boss? On March 17 2010 02:59 Versatile wrote:
incog, you're so sweet to think of me when you're PMing other players too!
you loooooooooooooove me, you wanna kisssssssssssss me, you wanna huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug me a la gracie lou freebush. On March 17 2010 03:49 Versatile wrote:
i don't know what to think about this L and BM thing.
BM did mess with two votes, so i think L's suspicion is justified. however, L was out for BM before the game even began, so i feel like his judgment might be clouded.
if neither one of them is hit tonight, i'm inclined to think that they're just two townies going at one another and mafia wants them alive to distract. but it's equal possible that if one is mafia, the other won't be hit due to drawing attention to himself. On March 17 2010 03:59 Versatile wrote:
i can see the town is hesitant to lynch BC, and if that's not what the town wants, i will go with that.
so for lynch candidates for day 3, what does everyone think of putting the L/BM thing to rest. i highly doubt that either one of them will be killed during the night. as i stated before, if they're both townies, the mafia will want them @ each others' throats as a distraction, and if either is mafia, the death of one during the night would draw too much attention to the other. unless they're just that diabolical.
thoughts? On March 17 2010 04:02 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 03:55 Zona wrote:
Another thing I want the town to think about is the pardoner power.
I think the pardoner MECHANISM as a whole brings NOTHING good to the town. When players die, the rest of the town gains CONCRETE INFORMATION. However, with mafia nightkills, the mafia decides what information to reveal, so the information from a lynch is much more valuable, because it is not totally driven by the mafia. As well, vote history is very valuable when combined with lynch results. So when the pardoner ever pardons, the town is deprived of information is needs to get.
Okay, so the pardoner shouldn't pardon. But therein lies the problem. When we reach lategame, the pardoner power becomes EVEN MORE DANGEROUS to the town, when in the hands of a mafia member. By that point in the game, the pardon can simply be used to cancel a town's lynch, and allow the mafia to continue whittling down the town with their nightkill. So we as a town want to reach lategame without the pardoner having his or her power. But if the pardoner ever uses his or her power...it's a bad thing.
I have no easy answer to this dilemma. However, if we force the pardoner to use up pardons earlier in the game to remove the risk of mafia pardoning late game, the town falls behind and loses two lynches. If we kill the pardoner with a lynch, we fall behind in ONE lynch, but we also lose one town member.
The only alternative is we somehow have to prove the pardoner is definitely town, so we can avoid using pardons and also go into the lategame without worrying about mafia pardoning. i think there is only one way to deal with this. the two tells the pardoner (incog in this game) that we do not want any lynches. and if he goes against the town's wishes so blantantly, that's cause for immediate lynching. of course, this should have been done in the beginning of the game, but we can just keep it in mind for future games as well. obviously there some problems with this, for example, it counts on the pardoner keeping their word so it is not full proof. On March 17 2010 04:21 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 04:07 Zona wrote:On March 17 2010 04:02 Versatile wrote:On March 17 2010 03:55 Zona wrote:
Another thing I want the town to think about is the pardoner power.
I think the pardoner MECHANISM as a whole brings NOTHING good to the town. When players die, the rest of the town gains CONCRETE INFORMATION. However, with mafia nightkills, the mafia decides what information to reveal, so the information from a lynch is much more valuable, because it is not totally driven by the mafia. As well, vote history is very valuable when combined with lynch results. So when the pardoner ever pardons, the town is deprived of information is needs to get.
Okay, so the pardoner shouldn't pardon. But therein lies the problem. When we reach lategame, the pardoner power becomes EVEN MORE DANGEROUS to the town, when in the hands of a mafia member. By that point in the game, the pardon can simply be used to cancel a town's lynch, and allow the mafia to continue whittling down the town with their nightkill. So we as a town want to reach lategame without the pardoner having his or her power. But if the pardoner ever uses his or her power...it's a bad thing.
I have no easy answer to this dilemma. However, if we force the pardoner to use up pardons earlier in the game to remove the risk of mafia pardoning late game, the town falls behind and loses two lynches. If we kill the pardoner with a lynch, we fall behind in ONE lynch, but we also lose one town member.
The only alternative is we somehow have to prove the pardoner is definitely town, so we can avoid using pardons and also go into the lategame without worrying about mafia pardoning. i think there is only one way to deal with this. the two tells the pardoner (incog in this game) that we do not want any lynches. and if he goes against the town's wishes so blantantly, that's cause for immediate lynching. of course, this should have been done in the beginning of the game, but we can just keep it in mind for future games as well. obviously there some problems with this, for example, it counts on the pardoner keeping their word so it is not full proof. The thing is, the pardoner obeying the town in using up pardons in the first two days does nothing to prove how town-aligned they are. The mafia would be happy to have a monopoly on kills for two days. They then control what information the town has. Actually the first town lynch vote is probably one of the most important in the game, because it provides the first voting record for the town to examine. I'd definitely be against pardoning that one... That's why the mechanic of having the mayor decide the first lynch actually sets the town back, because there's no voting history to examine day 2. no, maybe i wasn't clear. i'm saying the town should tell the pardoner NOT to use ANY lynches, period. this doesn't address the late game issue, but it prevents a mafia pardoner from saving his buddies without making it obvious he's red as well. i'm not sure what to do with the late game problem, i'll keep brainstorming. On March 17 2010 04:22 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 04:17 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Although Incog did have a point when Versatile agreed to BC's plan, then decided he should release the names...
It could just be the want for information, but you did say they shouldn't be released earlier. no monkeybreath, he didn't have a point because it's not true. i already addressed that. stop blatantly lying about me. On March 17 2010 04:23 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 04:19 Bill Murray wrote:On March 17 2010 03:59 Versatile wrote:
i can see the town is hesitant to lynch BC, and if that's not what the town wants, i will go with that.
so for lynch candidates for day 3, what does everyone think of putting the L/BM thing to rest. i highly doubt that either one of them will be killed during the night. as i stated before, if they're both townies, the mafia will want them @ each others' throats as a distraction, and if either is mafia, the death of one during the night would draw too much attention to the other. unless they're just that diabolical.
thoughts? I would love to put it to rest. I like L. I believe he is town. you do realize "put to rest" means one of you should be lynched. On March 17 2010 04:31 Versatile wrote:
umm, the idea would be to lynch you since L agreed to be lynched if you are green.
what is wrong with you? On March 17 2010 04:37 Versatile wrote:
have you been drinking again? it's the middle of the day. On March 17 2010 04:41 Versatile wrote:
lol, why are you behaving as if this is the first time you've been accused all game?
you've been a lynch candidate for ages. i'm promoting discussion to get more people involved in the discussion so we can get a better idea of where the town stands.
and if you are mafia like L has stated over and over again, lynching you would benefit the town. On March 17 2010 04:45 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 04:43 Bill Murray wrote:
I've gotten 2 votes all game. Real lynch candidate there. You want to lynch our mayor and you want to lynch an obvious green? I say we lynch you. then lynch me, hoe. On March 17 2010 05:28 Versatile wrote:
to whoever went crying to the mod about my language....fuck you, hoe. cry some more. this isn't day camp. On March 17 2010 05:33 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 05:25 Abenson wrote:
I went to mafiascum.net and I've just realized that Incog is scummer himself and won the IC award :O aren't you dead? stop trying to influence the game from the grave, it isn't fair to the players and the mod. On March 17 2010 05:49 Versatile wrote:
that's completely inappropriate, xelin. seriously. On March 17 2010 05:53 Versatile wrote:
^_^
i forgive you. On March 17 2010 10:48 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 10:22 johnnyspazz wrote:
we lost both bodyguards? wtf where the medics doing? exactly. wtf. On March 17 2010 10:57 Versatile wrote:
well, it's day 3. it's seriously, seriously sucks that zona is gone.
patiently waiting for the big reveals promised by BC and incog.
@ BM: i can't say what i want to 'cuz i promised flame i'd be nicer so i'm just going to say i keep getting sucked into spamming because i respond to you. i'm acknowledge your vote for me here and leaving it at that. On March 17 2010 12:45 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 12:19 Incognito wrote:On March 17 2010 02:32 Versatile wrote:On March 17 2010 02:07 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor.at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. Lets take a look at these three posts from Versatile. First, she agrees with BC's idea that DTs should only announce red checks. Second post, she decides that BC is pulling BS here when he decides to follow the plan that she agreed with. Third post, I guess she figures that her previous attempt to get BC to spit out the confirmed townies didn't work and is desperate to find another way? Her plan is flawed for obvious reasons stated above. I dont know, but why do you keep switching your views on things that seem like they should be policy no matter what your role? Something doesn't add up here. Care to explain? Also, who do you suggest we lynch tomorrow? Did you read L's analysis of Bill Murray? On another note, On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Downplaying Malongo's lynch. Which fine, it wasn't some awesome convincing analysis. But it was a successful guess. Would the mafia really risk starting a train on Malongo when he hadn't been previously discussed? Sure, he was inactive and a good target to gain credibility, but at this point, they have more issues to worry about then gaining credibility from lynches. Either way, you've mentioned repeatedly that it is self-evident that one of BC/me/L are mafia. In fact you keep saying this as if you're 100% sure that this is true seemingly out of nowhere. Stirring up the town based on a percieved false consensus here? BC's alignment can be tested severely. Yours unfortunately is a bit more difficult. But I guess I'll wait to comment further until you answer this post. 1. that post was referring to an UNPROTECTED DT. i never agreed that BC should keep his checks secretly. not once. go read my posts. once again, stop misrepresenting my what i wrote. this is the same shyt people were doing to L. i have used to the same policy the entire time. i haven't changed my mind. so that point is null and void. 2. lol, are you serious? downplaying malongo's lynch? if i were mafia, what would i gain from doing this? and how was it a successful guess? NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died. that's not a towny victory. that's just bad luck for the mafia. further, citi.zen and L both said the same thing. but it only matters to you that i said it right? 3. i don't understand how you can say that i am "stirring up the town based on perceived false consensus". i am not the only towny who has said this, so there is no perceived false consensus. fact is, it is very unlikely that that all three of you are blue/green. that's what i think, and if you don't like, go cry to someone else about it. now, instead of riding my jock, maybe you'd like to actually post something substantial. cut the "all will be made clear in the morning's dawn when God whispers in your ear" bullshit. you're also an elected official and i don't see you doing much either. in fact, i find it suspicious that you're taking all the heat for BC when you claim to be suspicious of him yourself. what's up with that, boss? Thank you for the nonsense garbage reply that ignores half of my statements. Again, "the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red". I think everyone would agree that I'm not taking your posts out of context here. Only is a pretty strong word. And even if I look at the post you're replying to, Abenson doesn't mention unprotected DTs specifically. Oops and you decide not to respond to my comments on your second and third pms. Trying to cover that up? "NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died." This is true. But why are you trying to deny the fact that BC and I started the move against Malongo? Sure, it wasn't the most solid analysis, but it still counts for something. Regardless of what the outcome was, its the actions and the motives that are important here. Yes, you are downplaying Malongo's lynch, perhaps because as mafia, you fear that BC and I will become too trusted by the town. There's no logical reason why BC and I would start a train against our own mafia teammate when we didn't have to. Everyone seemed perfectly happy bandwagoning Abenson. Mafia didn't need to break the status quo. And now you're saying they did. I now have proof that BC and I are either BOTH mafia or both town, which I'll bring up later. I'm taking the heat for BC because you are doing something incredibly narrow minded, short sighted, and misguided. As for you, I'd appreciate if you didn't spam the thread with all that vulgar and useless language. On March 17 2010 05:25 Abenson wrote:
I went to mafiascum.net and I've just realized that Incog is scummer himself and won the IC award :O I don't play on mafiascum. Quote from sidesprang: Which brings us to other candidates. Quite frankly, there's a lot. We can never be sure, but at the moment, I'm not comfortable at all with Abenson as a candidate. I would suggest Malongo and Sidesprang as alternatives. Both of whom have very few posts. Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo. No this is a quote from me. On March 17 2010 07:45 Bill Murray wrote:
sorry for misquoting you sidesprang, seemed suspicious though.
i guess ill ask you, then, incognito. why were you so worried about malongo's inactivity? I wasn't even aware he was inactive, I was bloody f5ing the voting thread ready to switch my vote on him if he showed up. This has been stated several times. Inactive + ran for mayor then disappeared. He's also known for posting a lot more. And Abenson was a worse lynch target because nobody defended him and he was acting like he was every game. On March 17 2010 07:46 Bill Murray wrote:
Also, Incognito, why have you been a lot less active in organizing the town this game as compared with the last? Because I haven't. More to come. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 53. An interesting page that has a handful of people spamming "that sucks" posts all over. Yes it does suck. But Versatile, I thought you wanted us to die anyway? On to business. And roleclaims. And clearing BC of guilt. First off, I am the Bus Driver. If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the reason why we all had figured out blues was because we were all blue. Durr. And the reason why I didn't claim driver after my election was so that the mafia/mafia driver wouldnt mess up our checks. So, on to confirmations. Night 1, BC checks sidesprang. I bus sidesprang and L. L is rolechecked and comes up as a Mad Hatter, which is all fine and dandy. While this confirms L and me to BC, it did nothing to confirm BC to me. Day 2, I receive a pm from a claimed DT. Now I get hella suspicious of BC, guessing that the balance would be terribly off if we had 2 DTs and only 5 mafia. So fearing that I had wasted my first bus to a manipulative GF, I decided to end this once and for all. BC would be tested by bus. Simple, really. I ask BC to check player X. Then, I use my powers to swap player X with any of the other remaining 19 players on the field. BC now has to guess who I swapped with, in addition to the role. 1/19 is pretty slim for a fake DT. Fortunately, BC passed the test. So either we are both mafia, or we are both town. Any questions? Will post more about lynch targets in a short while. 1. since you're trying to use my quotes against me, here's one from earlier on in the game that clarifies my feelings on people claiming. i can admit i could have been clearer in the post you quoted, but hopefully this will put it to rest. Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 02:00 Versatile wrote:
sorry folks, just got caught up with the thread, haven't had much free time lately. and i knew that might happen, which is why i got my vote in early.
at the time i voted, it was L and incog who were the top candidates and incog read as more pro-town to me, hence my vote.
a couple of things: incog stated he expected more form me in this game. this in itself is not strange, because i'm pretty sure incog is familiar with my playing on another site. however, he called out malongo and foolishness as well. i don't believe malongo has addressed this accusation yet.
however, foolishness not only didn't bother to defend himself to incog or any other player, but went as far as defending incog's post and went back and forth with zona.
this struck me because if zona's not town, who the hell is? check his posts, if i had been around, that's who i would i have changed my vote to.
in any case, i also received an incog PM stating "first". however, i believe the medics need to be protecting zona, and i hope that's what they decide to do.
as i stated earlier, DTs ought to be checking the vote lists. if we have a mafia member in office, it's likely a mafia member or two voted for them, especially with a last minute vote swing, if i read correctly.
i also don't think anyone without protection should be claiming a damn thing to anyone right now. DTs should be investigating and building up their circle in the most secure and legitimate way they can, and it's far too early to be trusting anyone.
going to update my archives now. 2. what did you say about your PMs? what would i have to cover up? here are my PMs with incog for all who are interested. i have nothing to hide. read bottom up, bolded is me: + Show Spoiler +sure, if you promise to choke on a dick sometime within the next couple of hours
once again, i don't play behind the scenes so stop PMing me. play in the thread.
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Original Message:
Well if you don't play behind the scenes, I'm sure you're willing to post more in the thread? At the moment I don't think I've heard much from you, especially in the past few days.
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Original Message:
well, i have no intel other than what i posted in the thread. i don't play the game behind the scenes. so i'll look for your info in there, if ever you post it.
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Original Message:
What will catch our mayor is if he slips up a DT check. That doesn't require thread information. I just don't BC to have the bus driver excuse when I press him for a specific role check, if you know what I mean. Right now I'm just trying to gather intel from others on him. When/if I catch him I will post everything.
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Original Message:
i think you should be posting in the thread if you suspect our mayor, because that's what will help the town.
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Original Message:
Knowing that you are a responsible player, I would like to know your thoughts about the current situation. I have received some information that makes me doubt BC's legitimacy. What do you think? 3. i wasn't downplaying malongo's death, get over yourself. all i said was that it wasn't based on some fantastic move from the town. the guy was inactive, and he was modkilled. that took no skill from anyone. period. 4. i said it seriously, seriously sucks that zona is gone. nothing to do with you, friend. 5. i could give a damn what you think about my language. seriously. feel free not to read my posts. getting your panties in a bunch over some jokes and sarcasm. it's not personal, so why so sensitive. On March 17 2010 12:49 Versatile wrote:
if both elected officials are blue, rofl.
i hate when ace is right. On March 17 2010 13:05 Versatile wrote:
as far as inactive mafia, I10f and d3 are good targets, imo. On March 18 2010 02:24 Versatile wrote:
voting BM just so he'll STFU. On March 18 2010 02:27 Versatile wrote:
someone wanna explain the push for the dbl lynch?
oh grand town leaders, with brains the size of peas....ermm, eggplants, uhhh, cantaloupes...yeah.... who are the two suspects you hope to lynch with a dbl lynch? hmmmmmm? On March 18 2010 02:56 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:29 Incognito wrote:On March 18 2010 02:27 Versatile wrote:
someone wanna explain the push for the dbl lynch?
oh grand town leaders, with brains the size of peas....ermm, eggplants, uhhh, cantaloupes...yeah.... who are the two suspects you hope to lynch with a dbl lynch? hmmmmmm? Before answering this question, who are your top suspects? Don't you think that given that we get 2 DT checks tonight and have a bunch of fishy inactives we'll find someone to lynch? Did you run out of suspects to lynch now that you can't attack BC anymore? will you stop being an idiot for two seconds? listen. any decent player with half a mind would seriously question BC and how he's decided to play this game. you might not like my methods, but the intent is there. BC is an invincible DT and has played this whole thing scared. he's a freaking invincible DT! do you know what the means? he can take risks. he can act more freely. he could have sown this thing up so long ago it's ridiculous. he played vague, he was uncooperative, and he did not lead the town in the thread. i cannot believe you're surprised at how much i questioned him. a supposed DT mayor who has done nothing to prove it to the town out in public? gtfo. i don't trust all willy nilly. that's how you get screwed, and he didn't prove shyt in the thread. secondly, you're exceedingly narrow-minded for not understand why i have seriously questioned BC. you guys have played this entire thing behind the scenes. that's fine. that was your strategy. however, when you come in the thread and come at me because i'm not on the same page as you, please realize you're being ridiculous. it's like, the equation is (2+4) * (5+6) in the thread so here i am thinking the answer is 66, but there's another part of the equation in PMs that says divide by 2, and i'm supposed to know the real answer is 33? well, dumbass, i don't get where you're coming from because i don't have the all the information you do. so don't expect me to magically come to same conclusions as you. and no, i'm not going to sit back and just trust you know what you're doing because i'm not a sheep. and as a general comment, i don't know how many times this can be said: playing the game in PMs ruins it in so many ways. sure, it's useful in moderation. but seriously. take a look at this thread. this game has been incredibly slow. when information is shared with the town the game is more exciting and more fun for everyone involved. it also gives the mafia a fairer chance, especially in a game that is this much towny favored. it's not about the cool kids table. it's about making this enjoyable for everyone involved, and giving everyone the chance to get better at it. seriously, if you keep writing off some players as stupid or worthless, and don't bother to try to help them learn, the quality of these games will never improve. i've been here for three games and it's the same idiots being tricked by the same idiots and leading the town down the road to hell regardless of what anyone's role is in any given game. oh, and i guess i'll take this moment to sincerely apologize to anyone whose feelings i may have hurt. it's just a game. i attack people's posts and logic because that's what you do in this game. i don't care who's name is attached to the post, so don't take my jabs and jokes seriously, it's all in good fun. now i'm going to go back to trying to find a way out of this game that doesn't get me banned. On March 18 2010 02:57 Versatile wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 02:29 johnnyspazz wrote:probably you and foolishness jk but i think the fact that BM's first lynch would've been a red makes him probably green that would be welcomed, lol. On March 18 2010 03:00 Versatile wrote:
ps: my top suspect is me, myself, i. and also, this versatile character who also goes by verse, vers, and versa-million. let's get a 7-way lynch going. On March 18 2010 03:06 Versatile wrote:
BM if you PM me one more fcukin' time, i swuurtagawd i will come through this cpu and chop your balls off.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 10 2010 13:43 CynanMachae wrote:
It really depend on the numbers of blues anyway On March 11 2010 09:34 CynanMachae wrote:I'm glad Incognito just pointed that out, I was catching up with the topic and people seemed to be assuming that the fact that elected officials that can be rolechecked was bad for mafia/good for town. This fact is just wrong. The mafia choose their GF in night 1, and I don't see any reason why they wouldnt put their elected member as GF. Only if they get both, they can't protect both, but meh, that's not good for town either. Also, I didn't really understand that part with the first/last for protecting BGs, maybe I'm just not reading it right or something, but I don't understand what you mean Also, on a side note, pushing further Incognito's analysis about the chances of having a mafia elected, assuming a proportionate number of people run for office (20% mafia-80% town), with 5 people running (1 mafia 4 town) we have around 40% chance of electing a mafia as either mayor or pardoner (moving a bit toward 36.66% the more people that run, and having a much higher chance with less people running for office) On March 11 2010 10:26 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:03 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 09:34 CynanMachae wrote:Also, I didn't really understand that part with the first/last for protecting BGs, maybe I'm just not reading it right or something, but I don't understand what you mean Also, on a side note, pushing further Incognito's analysis about the chances of having a mafia elected, assuming a proportionate number of people run for office (20% mafia-80% town), with 5 people running (1 mafia 4 town) we have around 40% chance of electing a mafia as either mayor or pardoner (moving a bit toward 36.66% the more people that run, and having a much higher chance with less people running for office) After BGs are picked they are announced. So in the signup list, we find those two players and note that one of them is before the other. If "first" is picked, medics protect the first BG on the list, if not, they prot the second. No, don't think too much about precise chances. I was just saying this to illustrate why its wrong to think that mafia will be discouraged from running for office. Yea I did get that, I just didn't understand why the need to randomly pick one of them. But I went back and read the role and seems I hadn't noticed they were picked among town/mafia. IT does make sense now. On March 11 2010 12:17 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance.
Nah, it's not 1 in 24, since if any mafia make it it will be the GF. And yea, I also think not only blues should rnun, for those reasons but also as someone mentioned out earlier it's can be better in a lot of situations to have a pro-town verteran that is green than a blue that isn't really as experienced. On March 12 2010 01:35 CynanMachae wrote:
Why the hell someone would roleclaim in PM to specific people already (BC to vivi) is beyond me. I would really like to hear BC about that. On March 13 2010 11:59 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 11:28 Zona wrote:
With a public DT list, however, the bus driver could elect to switch someone in that DT list with anyone else. Remember the bus driver doesn't even need for this 'someone else' to be mafia for this to be effective - even if a blue is switched with a green, or a green with a blue, then the DT can be discredited. Or, if people are considering the chance that the DT's check was bus driven, then doubt is thrown on the result of the check, making it a lot less useful.
I was under the impression that if someone was the target of a medic/DT and got switched, the blue player doing the check/protect would get notified that his target was switched. If it's as you say then the bus driver can screw us over much more than I thought. Confirmation there's no notification? On March 13 2010 12:08 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:04 Foolishness wrote:
The point of the matter is that it's better to have the blue roles organized and under some general plan of action, and not letting them "choose for themselves" as you said. Mafia bus driver is at a severe disadvantage because they do not know the rest of the mafia team. Even say that the DT was going to inspect someone on the list of 3 people Incog gave. If the bus driver chooses to mess it up, they can only mess up ONE of the 3 people. Still a good chance DT's check is going to go through. Also they could accidentally switch with a mafia member, letting the DT check a mafia by mistake. Heck the bus driver could switch a mafia hit onto one of their own.
So you are saying that having a 1/3 chance of wasting a DT check is good? Ok. And yea, on that 1/3 it'S switched, you have around 1/5 chance of switching with a mafia member. Pretty high there. And that's insinuating that the DT that check know with who his target was switched, which lead back to the question I asked earlier about bus drivers. On March 14 2010 02:52 CynanMachae wrote:Oh wat, BG lol. This wasn't there after WL lol. Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 18:12 Incognito wrote:
Which is why we need Cynan to speak up. What do you think about recent events? First of all, I think I should explain my vote change from Incognito to BC yesterday (not last minute, but a change still). From Incognito's posting, I had the feeling that he was green instead of blue, since he seemed to think BC/L had good chances of being blues, which the other candidates weren't doing. I switched to BC then, because between him and L, if someone was to be blue, I was more convinced it was BC. Lynching JeeJee, while it did came as suprise, I don't think was a bad choice. He was playing quite anti-town. If he indeed flipped red, we would have learned A LOT, from his PMing and that last minute switch. Ok, I just read that bodyguards can't be rolechecked. While I only can say so with certitude about myself, I really do think Zona is also town. His posting is very protown and that's the impression I've got talking with him about the election. On March 14 2010 13:59 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 13:51 madnessman wrote:
PS. Isn't it equally likely that people trying to act nondescriptly and voting early on could be mafia too? As we saw in the last game, NONE of the swing voters for redtooth were mafia. The swing vote for Redtooth during that game was mostly due to him failing while claiming medic and with all the drama that followed he got votes On March 16 2010 07:15 CynanMachae wrote:
Just done catching up.
I'm gonna vote for Malongo, the arguments pointed out earlier seems pretty good to me.
Imo, based on the fact that he ran for mayoer/pardoner and then dissapeared is a solid enough motivation. If he was red he was trying to get elected and then get GF, if he was green/blue then he should have known beforehand that he could be active/pro-town if he won while right now he's just hiding
On March 16 2010 09:47 CynanMachae wrote:
Well, if Malongo is gonna get modkilled anyway, it does seems a good idea to lynch another target On March 16 2010 09:56 CynanMachae wrote:
Spazz, can you explain your switch from abenson to malongo? On March 16 2010 10:01 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 03:34 flamewheel91 wrote:
I have an away match today that's at least an hour's drive one way... so bear with me if I'm not back at 9:00. Voting will end on the TL clock today, so that's 11:00 sharp, and I'll get the post up as soon as possible. Gah I thought day was ending in 5 minutes lol Seems its at 10 EST (with the new DST) On March 16 2010 10:57 CynanMachae wrote:
A miller and a mafia lol, well that's surprisingly good On March 16 2010 14:01 CynanMachae wrote:
The thing is that from both perspectives it was better to get both Malongo/Abenson
Mafia get a freekill on a townie, town get a double lynch on two players that were highly suspected
I was also considering switching to Abenson if Malongo was too get lynched + modkilled too. I got screwed up thinking the day would end at 10 EST but anyway it went ok
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+ Show Spoiler + On March 11 2010 02:00 XeliN wrote:
First thing I think we need to organise it to set up a rule that punishes inactivity, I would suggest people who are obviously not contributing or posting should be prime suspects for us to lynch.
In a game without clues the only thing we have to go on is peoples posts so it's important.
As the first kill is a crapshoot mostly I'm currently going to be voting for Ace to be lynched, he annoyed the **** out of me last game. On March 11 2010 02:05 XeliN wrote:
lol Ace is not even in this game... ah well guess thats something I don't have to worry about. On March 11 2010 04:53 XeliN wrote:
Yeah citi.zen please don't make a habit of posting like this. On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote:
I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate.
I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played.
DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on.
Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me).
Elect XeliN ! On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia. On March 12 2010 08:04 XeliN wrote:
Incog when the players are being assigned roles are they given with that in mind, i.e. making sure both town and mafia have veteran players or is it simply random? On March 13 2010 02:38 XeliN wrote:
I'd rather have Incognito in office because I think he is a better player, neither of you appear more or less Mafia, like to me, possibly L but thats probably due to the way he posts.
Overall I would rather vote someone in the role who has never had it before simply because I think it sucks if the same veterans get the same elected roles game in game out, how is anyone meant to improve at the game then? but as thats not relevant this game I would rather have Incog in office. On March 13 2010 02:52 XeliN wrote:Also L if you get voted in don't lynch Bill it would be a waste, going over the thread I would lynch Abenson Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 07:17 Abenson wrote:
Declaration:
I think it's really hard for me to post anything BUT 1-liners unless I have something important or I am trying to argue a point or protecting myself. Therefore from now on I will simply post 1-liners in order to state my mood/thoughts on the current matter
P.S. I'm kinda lazy to update my post in the archives Town or Mafia this is just plain unhelpful, also I'd like to restate something I wrote way long ago that no-one really responded to. We need to put in place and agreed rule whereby people who are exceptionally inacitve or do not contribute are lynched. Forces the Mafia to post and forces town to try to participate, win win. thoughts?
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. So you're saying don't DT check the person with 3 votes who can't be killed because he could be the GF. Why does that seem retarded to me? Oh let me tell you why. Day 1 passes 2 people are voted in. If mafia attempt to run, they have the ability to put a single player in. The threat of DT checking prevents them from running more than one competitive option. Given that the good players in this game are limited, they're likely split up. I know that I'm not red, so that probably leaves either you or BC as the mafia candidate. One of you will probably be GF. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. In past games where I've been GF i've similarly relied on it as a method of painting other people as uncredible. I generally ended up being able to do wacky shit like get fucking medic or DT mayors killed off because i'd point to a mistake in someone's reasoning then go "LOL I FOUND YOU OUT GF HOLY SHIT" and then get them bussed. So given that, The mayor/pardoner NEED to be checked on the basis that it proves that at minimum ONE is legit. If ONE at the least is legit, then you can start some town building. Especially under certain circumstances. So yeah, DTs please check Mayor/Pardoner, and please make me one or the other (i'd highly prefer mayor so that I can kill bill murray). There's also another way to use bus drivers; you can use the town aligned bus driver after claims to assure that you have accurate DT checks. In doing so, you skirt pretty much the entire possibility of mafia redirecting your checks AND protect important players. Given that mafia aren't likely to hit their own members (unless knowingly bussed), the target/fake dichotomy is key. Anyways, vote for me. On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:Show nested quote +ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. Show nested quote +If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. On March 11 2010 11:26 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:37 madnessman wrote:On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? He's trying to make you look bad, by saying that someone who accuses others of being the Godfather is usually the Godfather himself, since said person is just trying to divert suspicion so the town won't realize that it is HE who is GF.. Which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, because when the accused GF gets lynch and turns over town-aligned, won't the accuser just look like someone who cried wolf? No,its more that players with a certain role are more likely to ask questions about that role or how they fit into the game than other players. A player who makes a huge post about a DT plan then goes afk looks VERY much like a DT because he's doing 2 things DTs do: thinks about himself and his role as a DT, then he tries to not die. Greens generally run inactive in our games unless they're veteran players trying to run pro-town moves, or bad players trying to stave off the boredom of being plain. Greens also try to trap people in pms, but that doesn't really work well. By contrast someone like the vet will post excessively pro-town things in a bid to get killed; Ver generally doesn't talk very much in an effort to stay alive for a few days; Last game as Vet he was active far earlier. Some other vets will attempt to claim medic or DT in an effort to get hit. This doesn't work well in our games because we shoot liars (sometimes). I'm also running on the idea that there's going to be a good player who's GF; I haven't really seen GF given to a shitty player because they generally can't command enough respect within the mafia to have people agree. if that's the case, there are 5 main 'candidates' for GF in the game. Me, Malongo, Incog, Cobbler and Foolishness. I know I'm not, so for my personal calculations, there's a 25% chance one of these 5 is the GF. Additionally, guessing on how teams balance, given mafia's low kp and the structure of the game, I'd say that 2-3 of these players are probably mafia. Incog and Cobbler have decided to run. That's perfectly fine and entirely expected of them. If the mafia team running is most likely to only send a GF candidate after the early talk of checks, then one of them is probably legit, and the other is probably not. Additionally, that also means that foolishness and Malongo are probably 1-1 on the legit/not ratio too. But I'm not confirmed to people who aren't me (yet) so the actual numbers are a bit off. But that's all conjecture, and frankly it won't matter because by night 2 we'll have all of them checked and the 1-2 goons in that group will likely be caught and the rest will join the town circle. On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. On March 11 2010 12:05 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:57 Fulgrim wrote:On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. If no greens ran for office though, you would just be handing the mafia a hitlist of the candidates that were running. Well, that's the result of having checkable offices. Greens shouldn't be running for office unless they plan on losing. As for the comment about mafia being desperate to get office; Rofl. With a bus consisting of 20% of players in a game where we typically have less than 50% of the people throw meaningful votes, you think they're scared they can't convince 2-3 townies to vote for them, then bus if needed? Oh please. Mafia candidates often get in with little to no mafia support on the voter rolls too. On March 11 2010 12:08 L wrote:Show nested quote +I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance. Yeah, we just went through what the GF might take into office, and you're saying you'd pm the impossible to confirm member. Or rather you're saying you SHOULD pm the impossible to confirm member. Somehow I think this is a really good way to get a DT killed during night 2. On March 11 2010 13:11 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:40 Zona wrote:On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead. Considering his sentence includes "the other DT"...it seems like he's claiming DT. The thing is - we probably only have one DT. Oh good, some people can read. I can't tell you if you're entirely correct at this point, but you're on the right track. On March 11 2010 13:54 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 11 2010 13:25 JeeJee wrote:
so L, you're not an idiot, what do you think implying "hey I'm not green" is going to accomplish, pre-election? It appears that he is hoping to get into office based on "hey im not green" Nope. I'm hoping to do something after I get into office based on "hey im not green", but its not really "hey im not green", thats kinda just something you guys have decided to run with. I'm just glad that people have decided to read posts carefully because they are CHOCK FULL OF CHOCOLATEY GOODNESS. I mean, I'll be pretty cryptic about what it is I want to do until I do it, but I'm going to point you towards the specific differences in format between this game and our normal games to give you an idea. Either way go go vote 4 me :3. On March 11 2010 14:00 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:58 Incognito wrote:
Awesome. Another out of the blue vote for the Cobbler. Anybody care to explain? Anybody care to explain why these phantom voters like you/cobbler over me? On March 11 2010 14:08 L wrote:
1) I didn't claim shit. Other people claimed for me and if you bothered to read I said they're not entirely correct.
2) ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL DAY ONE PM CLAIMS. THIS SHIT IS OFF THE CHAIN.
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ZzZzZzZzZ so much work
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 07:45 johnnyspazz wrote:
Elect johnnyspazz for mayor because I am a newb at this game. Electing me is basically a win-win situation. I am so bad that if I was mafia, the veterans would probably see through my posting by the second day and convince the town to lynch me. On March 11 2010 07:54 johnnyspazz wrote:
one second thought, don't elect me because we need our good town players to have body guard protection. it would suck if it turned out we elected mafia. On March 11 2010 14:49 johnnyspazz wrote:
as long as both of them aren't green or red, i think our town is bound to win! On March 12 2010 11:29 johnnyspazz wrote:i i'm a little confused here On March 12 2010 11:54 johnnyspazz wrote:
NO WAIT L, LET ME BE THE PAWN
PM INSTRUCTIONS PLZ On March 12 2010 15:19 johnnyspazz wrote:
because apparently he is a DT and vivi said its not easy to fake being a DT On March 12 2010 16:14 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +A) Balance wise, it is more than likely that one of the runners is mafia. This has happened many times in terms of distribution, for those that doesnt know rol distribution is not completely random. see this is where you are wrong because flamewheel91 specifically said all roles were randomly chosen so there is a possibility we the town got the three best players all running On March 12 2010 16:41 johnnyspazz wrote:
damn i might just change my vote so i don't get grouped with scummy looking people On March 12 2010 16:45 johnnyspazz wrote:
well i wasn't trying to look scummy
this is what i want to happen: BC -> Mayor; L -> Pardoner
BC for mayor because apparently he's DT and DTs are very important
L for pardoner because he said he has a game winning plan that involves sacing himself as the pardoner On March 12 2010 16:49 johnnyspazz wrote:
oh i see so IF he's green that's what he's going to do
whatever, my vote right now is for BC so that he gets Mayor
i dont care at the moment if either you or L get pardoner On March 12 2010 16:57 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:48 sidesprang wrote:This is my first post, its coming up really late. Sorry about that, FF13 messed up my schoolwork which then again messed up my mafiaposting. I've now read through all the posts, and i ended up voting for L. Beliving he is the best bet for pro-town player. Tho honestly i dont think im capable of spotting scummy behavior this early in the game :S When i analyzed players before i usualy was looking at clues because that was the easiest(altho im usualy wrong there to  ). i hate excuses. why would you sign up for a mafia game if you weren't committed to it? is it cause you didn't get a MAFIA role this game? also wouldn't you rather have a DT in office? you should let this game mess up your schoolwork not FF13. On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? On March 13 2010 00:19 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 17:13 sidesprang wrote:
And ofc i would have a DT in the office if that could be 100% guarranteed. don't you think that BC is currently our best bet as a DT mayor? On March 13 2010 14:54 johnnyspazz wrote:
guys i will be away this weekend on a trip much like tree.hugger so forgive me if i don't post or miss a vote. i've already told flamewheel91 and hopefully when BC finally gets back, he will lynch a mafia member cause that would be awesome. On March 15 2010 11:40 johnnyspazz wrote:
okay guyz i am back and after reading the posts, i'm going to vote with BC On March 15 2010 12:51 johnnyspazz wrote:
why haven't you PM'd me? i feel left out On March 15 2010 13:35 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 13:19 Incognito wrote:
Abenson as a lynch candidate.
Well, I for one, do not like this at all. First off, its been over 24 hours. And nobody's said anything in defense of Abenson. The mafia have not come out to point out someone more suspicious.
they probably aren't defending him because it would make it too obvious that they are also mafia. no one of my team defended me last game when the clues clearly exposed me as mafia and i never publicly tried to defer suspicion away from my teammates when they were lynch targets but that was probably because i am a noob. On March 16 2010 10:02 johnnyspazz wrote:
no flamewheel said time's up On March 16 2010 10:34 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:31 sidesprang wrote:
from the nights events its very likely that both incognito and BC are pro-town, as they were the first who voted for him. So that is good news town.
. maybe they are both mafia and decided to kill their own inactive member to gain credibility On March 16 2010 10:38 johnnyspazz wrote:
we need a big post from BC to clear his name
i think versatile is completely right on revealing who BC checked. even if you found a blue, just say in the thread he is green On March 16 2010 10:42 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:40 Bill Murray wrote:
I've been saying malongo for days............ we get it good job finding out malongo even though it was kind of lucky On March 16 2010 10:51 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:50 Bill Murray wrote:
OK keep the roleclaims coming people. wtf people? i hope you really aren't role claiming to him On March 16 2010 13:15 johnnyspazz wrote:
i think my decision to let two pretty inactive players die instead of just one wasn't that bad
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 08:34 madnessman wrote:Eet's AWNN! I don't like the new citi.zen On March 11 2010 10:26 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. So you're saying don't DT check the person with 3 votes who can't be killed because he could be the GF. Why does that seem retarded to me? Oh let me tell you why. Day 1 passes 2 people are voted in. If mafia attempt to run, they have the ability to put a single player in. The threat of DT checking prevents them from running more than one competitive option. Given that the good players in this game are limited, they're likely split up. I know that I'm not red, so that probably leaves either you or BC as the mafia candidate. One of you will probably be GF. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. In past games where I've been GF i've similarly relied on it as a method of painting other people as uncredible. I generally ended up being able to do wacky shit like get fucking medic or DT mayors killed off because i'd point to a mistake in someone's reasoning then go "LOL I FOUND YOU OUT GF HOLY SHIT" and then get them bussed. So given that, The mayor/pardoner NEED to be checked on the basis that it proves that at minimum ONE is legit. If ONE at the least is legit, then you can start some town building. Especially under certain circumstances. So yeah, DTs please check Mayor/Pardoner, and please make me one or the other (i'd highly prefer mayor so that I can kill bill murray). There's also another way to use bus drivers; you can use the town aligned bus driver after claims to assure that you have accurate DT checks. In doing so, you skirt pretty much the entire possibility of mafia redirecting your checks AND protect important players. Given that mafia aren't likely to hit their own members (unless knowingly bussed), the target/fake dichotomy is key. Anyways, vote for me. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? What would be the point of mafia letting one of their own be in office (without giving him Godfather status) only to get role-checked by DT's, lynched by the town, and the crucial 3 extra votes being thrown away? So no matter what, if you role-check the mayor/pardonner, won't he come up as town-aligned? I don't really understand your logic in saying it's worth it to role-check him anyways because "it proves that at minimum ONE is legit." The only way role-checking mayor/pardonner would be worthwhile is if BOTH mayor AND pardonner are mafia, in which case, they can't "protect" both of them from role-checks... But what are the chances of that?? On March 11 2010 10:37 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? He's trying to make you look bad, by saying that someone who accuses others of being the Godfather is usually the Godfather himself, since said person is just trying to divert suspicion so the town won't realize that it is HE who is GF.. Which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, because when the accused GF gets lynch and turns over town-aligned, won't the accuser just look like someone who cried wolf? On March 11 2010 14:21 madnessman wrote:Reason why I voted for BloodyC0bbler: + Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. I be swayed by his rhetoric yo. This is a man with a plan. Lol. In all honesty though, I'd like to wait for more to be said before I make my final vote. Decided to post who I'm most leaning towards now (based on platform) just as a precaution in case I somehow miss the deadline and get lightning'd by flamewheel (he seems like he'd be trigger happy with it ) On March 12 2010 09:27 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 09:08 Iaaan wrote:
I originally voted for incognito just because I thought it would be nice to protect a veteran who posts alot. No ses pools of noobiness/inactivty.
But, I'm changing my vote to BC, simply because he looks like the candidate that is easiest to hold accountable. L is quite ambiguous. Not answering questions/confirming things and posting lots of walls of text.
Also, I think that whichever of the three doesn't win will probably be the first person lynched if they aren't mafia. I originally dismissed L as well for his hoity-toity posting, but after reading his posts more closely, I am pretty convinced he's town-aligned. I wouldn't say his posts are gems "chock full of chocolatey goodness," but they DO have a lot of substance. It's just that his rhetoric/phrasing make it very easy to miss what he implies. As such, I don't think he should be readily dismissed as a candidate just because he is not confirming things... My personal guess would be that he's vigil/bus driver. On March 13 2010 10:13 madnessman wrote:
Bill Murray, I honestly don't understand you. Why would you PM me asking me to vote for you if you're so thoroughly convinced that I am mafia? And are you seriously accusing me of being mafia because I backed L up ONCE when you don't even know for certain that L is mafia?!
The reason I switched my vote is because after reading through L's posts more closely, he implies that:
1. He is not green and that his role can be easily proved.
2. He doesn't want to role claim though so the mafia doesn't know what exactly they're dealing with.
3. He wants to be in contact with the blues in this game so that he can set "his plan" going.
I suspected from all this that he has a blue role which gives him the ability to directly kill a mafia member or put them in harms way. Am I sure that L is town-aligned? Of course not. Do I have misgivings over my vote? Sure, this is all just my own speculation. I could definitely be mistaken. Since you're referencing my play style from last game, you'll see that in the beginning of last game, I (who was town) voted for L (who was mafia), and then later in the game, I realized my mistake and wrote a really really long post accusing him of being mafia and asking the town to lynch him.
Therefore, even if L is mafia, accusing active posters who support him of being fellow mafia is just ridiculous. If anything, all it proves is that he's convincing. If, however, an INACTIVE person who hadn't posted at all stepped up out of nowhere and defended L when he was in trouble and under great suspicion, I would agree that that is much more incriminating.
On March 13 2010 10:47 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 10:16 Bill Murray wrote:
I asked you to vote for me because I literally pmed every person like I said I would because I am a man of my word. I also feel like you are worried about being accused. this is the most i've ever seen you post, madnessman. scared?
Feels like you were really quick to defend yourself.
If you were green you would be like "what do i have to hide?", but that's not how you're being. That's the most retarded counterargument ever sigh... I was going to write a post in this thread about how it might not be the best idea for L to lynch you if he wins mayor, but now I am having second thoughts about doing that. This is the most you've ever seen me post?!?! Are you talking about EVER?! Because in that case you must need glasses since somehow you managed to miss this post last game: + Show Spoiler +On February 19 2010 01:10 madnessman wrote:So I have an incredibly short attention span, and with the way this game has gone, I can feel my interest slipping -_-;; It seems to me as though both mafia teams are discussing behind closed doors, and townies are not doing anything. I also have a feeling I'm going to get hit tonight, so I figure I may as well take a gamble and write this. Basically, I would like to propose to townies that we band together, unite, and vote in unison to lynch L. The basis behind my proposal is mainly behavioral related, with some clue analysis thrown in. These are my reasons: 1. The chances that a mayor/pardoner is a member of the mafia are extremely, extremely high. Here's what I wrote in a PM to DoctorHelvetica the day before yesterday: Show nested quote +i wrote a post on pg 65 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111913¤tpage=65), but to elaborate on it, the more i think about it, the more certain i am that redtooth and L must be mafia. mayor+pardonner are both incredibly important positions and gives whichever team (whether it be mafia a, mafa b, or town) who "owns" those positions an enormous advantage. the end tally was so low that a mafia team could EASILY get their candidate elected. there's no way a mafia team would let such a big position just slip from their fingers. itd be sheer stupidity.
it is a game of 30v10v10, but the mafia know who their team mates are, whereas townies dont. and with so many people abstaining, it was probably fairly easy for them to have their candidate elected.
you yourself were mafia last game, and ended up being elected mayor, were u not? surely u must know how much of an advantage each mafia team has over the town when it comes to elections
what perplexes me is that redtooth voted for L. is it possible that they are on the same team? could it even be possible for a non-mafia to get elected?
what are your thoughts on all of this.
ill admit im wary of sending u this, esp. since i just realized u kept switching votes and ultimately u voted for L. i did too though..so meh. i might just post my thoughts on the main thread..it's so dominated by spam tho im almost discouraged against doing so lol.
After looking at Foolishness' post though, maybe I am giving the mafia too much credit. Maybe there's a chance they played it too risky/were too disorganized and let a mayoral position slip from their grasp. But I think the chances of that are quite slim. A single team could singlehandedly have won the mayoral/pardoner positions given how many people abstained. (This doesn't mean that we should discredit the people who abstained/voted for other candidates though, obviously. As DoctorHelvetica was so kind to share: ) Show nested quote +Yes. When I was mafia our strategy was to throw in just enough votes for me to be mayor. When it was clear I was going to win, I instructed several mafia voters to change their vote to a competing non-mafia candidate. As we can also see from Foolishness' post, a mayoral candidate who played it pretty "safely" and didn't rely on a last minute influx of votes was L. But many of the last influx of votes were green townies, and therefore I think there's a better chance L is mafia over redtooth. I am well aware that I was one of the foolish people who voted L for mayor, but the reasons why I did so I see now in retrospect are quite foolish. I voted for him because (a) he presented himself as a leader with a strong, decisive voice at a time when everyone was confused and unsure (b) i didn't think his profile had enough substance for incognito to write clues on. with regards to (a), I see how stupid it was of me to jump on the L bandwagon. First off, the fact that he presented himself as a decisive leader is something any mafia member would do. To hold influence over the town is such an invaluable asset in this game. with regards to (b), this leads me to point #2. 2. At first, I thought that it was impossible for L to be mafia because his profile has absolutely no substance whatsoever. I believe he wasn't able to upload a picture until AFTER the game started, and his quote is "YOU JUST DON'T KNOW." this isn't a reference to anything as far as i can tell, and is SO little for incognito to base claims on. i now see that i was quite stupid to think that way. while his profile/picture contains absolutely nothing for incog to base his clues off, his very name "L" does fit the clues. L is of course in reference to the detective character in death note. let's read this part of day 2's passage: + Show Spoiler +When he finally arrived at his victim’s house, he noticed that the door had been left wide open. Cautiously, he peeked in the window, noticing that a pot of soup was still cooking on the stove. A pencil and a few charts were also spread on the table, but the Mafioso could not notice that anything important or telling about the papers. Figuring that his victim had been alerted to his presence and had hidden all his important documents before hastily vanishing, the Mafioso tiptoed upstairs, careful not to make any noises that could alert his victim. Upon reaching the upstairs bedroom, the Mafioso noticed fresh tracks beneath the window, and jumped down, careful not to disturb the tracks. He raced through the forest, and soon found his robed target sitting by the lake. Ace felt no surprise as he turned around to greet the Mafioso. He was about to warn the Mafioso that he couldn’t hide in the darkness, when suddenly the Mafioso sprayed gasoline all over Ace and quickly lit a match. As he left the scene, Ace’s attacker muttered to himself, thinking how much fun it would be to terrorize the town not only in the darkness, but also in the light. what characterizes L (the detective) in death note? he is extremely thoughtful, clever, observant. the way the mafiaso acts in this passage just REEKS of someone with L's character. he plots/plans/observes/is clever and thoughtful. he doesn't just jump into action but is very sly and clever about what he does. he cautiously checks the room first. he checks the papers to see if they're important. he slyly tiptoes up the stairs so he doesn't alert his victim. he cleverly notices fresh tracks and follows them. with regard to the whole darkness and light thing, L's enemy is Light Yagami. perhaps the whole L hides in darkness because his enemy is Light could account for this part of the clue. 3. so the pm that i sent doctorhelvetica -- time stamp: 09:53. next thing i know, meeple goes + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2010 10:40 meeple wrote:
My analysis:
...
Killer 5:[r]madnessman[/r]
Bickering and madness references
Dunno about the others yet followed by L who goes: + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2010 11:18 L wrote:
I think incog made the clues easier this time, because I'm pretty sure i can name like 4 people with 80% certainty.
nemy
madnessman
mystlord
phrubaz
Pretty sure i can find more, but that's my quick first reading. I'm going to be pretty blunt and say please lynch me if I post before tomorrow because I really need to get this work done and without the threat of me dying I will likely come back :/
BRB 12 HOURS.
and then later his explanation: + Show Spoiler +The two guys arguing seem to be madnessman. This one is a bit weaker than my other connections, but I haven't found anything that explains the key points quite as well: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=madnessmanBasically there are two birds which are fundamentally opposed to each other, but more importantly, one of them is a completely fearless dick who does whatever he wants despite prohibitions to the contrary: hence guts. I don't really have anything that explains the pan, though. this is the passage in which both meeple and L reference: + Show Spoiler +d3_crescentia was getting ready for bed, when he heard some strange noises outside. It seemed at first that some bickering had broken out. When he walked outside, he heard some cursing, and shouting. Puzzled, d3_crescentia went to investigate. As it turns out, the man who was being yelled at had scrawled graffiti all over the man’s house. d3_crescentia attempted to intervene, but a cold menacing glare came over the duo’s faces. Before d3_crescentia could cry for help, a pan was flung into his face, knocking his teeth into his brain. d3_crescentia died soon after from internal bleeding in the brain. are you kidding me? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! this coming from the guy who claims he's such an excellent clue analyzer with great success. because when people squabble/argue/draw grafitti, these are extremely telling signs of MADNESS. the fact that both meeple and L would out of nowhere draw such bullshit, terrible clue analysis on me a few minutes apart definitely caught my attn. i'd like to give meeple and L credit and say there's no way they could be so terrible at clue analysis, but why would they both suddenly do this? and within minutes of each other? my behavior has been in no way suspicious; if anything, i started off this game completely ignorant of the mechanics of internet mafia and extremely unsure/looking for the guidance of vets. therefore it is a possibility to me that doctorhelvetica shared my pm (in which i am suspicious of redtooth+L) with them, as both accusations sprung up soon after i pm'd dr.H. but honestly, i think it is behavior like this/tendency to point fingers and create suspicion without a basis that are telltale signs of mafia. SO i hope i have made a good enough argument that all you townies/other mafia team will consider lynching L tonight. of course i am not absolutely certain that i am correct in my accusation, but i've thought this through and i dont think we have much to lose. i understand that u all may be wary to lynch L; after all, L is pardoner and has the ability to pardon lynches. but what use is a pardoner to us who can't figure out the difference between mafia and townsman? as i've shown in #3, we have reason to believe that either his analysis is extremely flawed or that his accusations are heavily biased. there's no point in having a pardoner who MOST LIKELY will end up pardoning people who are mafia members. if he is a mafia member, he will pardon his fellow mafia members. if he isn't a mafia member, he will probably pompously and incorrectly asses the situation, and end up pardoning a mafia member as well. furthermore, the way this game is going down, it's now 25v10v10. we townspeople are STILL disorganized and disunited vs. two coherent, organized teams, and to add insult to injury, we're being picked off like flies. at this point, there's no point in our going after "small fish." we need to hit them now, and where it would hurt. like i said, i could be wrong that L is mafia, but i hope my reasoning has shown that it is worth it to make this gamble. in terms of calculated risks and potential gain, it is very very worth it. 4. on a final note, consider this: L claims he is such an amazing clue analyzer, but currently he is down 0/2. i dont base this as a reason to lynch him, as everyone makes mistakes. HOWEVER, if u scroll through the thread, u will see that he pushed for ace and emp to be killed/lynched both with extreme conviction. i myself am pushing for L to be lynch, but i acknowledge that there is room for error. L does no such thing. any towns person would hesitate and not be so ready to kill off another person, as there's a high chance (3/5th chance) that said person is a fellow townie, and killing off a fellow townie is not beneficial to the rest of the town. on the other hand, a mafia member would not be so hesitant because either way, as long as the person they accuse/push for ISNT on their team, he's either on the rivalry mafia team or a townie, both of which are readily dispensable for him. while i construct my argument on why it is worth it to take this RISK, L doesn't even seem to care about the consequences for the town if he is wrong. tl;dr: just read the bold points. we have strong reason to believe L is mafia. Honestly if I were mafia, I would probably ignore your accusations and not draw your attention to yourself, since not a lot of people take you seriously. BUT being the dedicated town member I am, I decided to explain my motivations behind voting for L to you. Since this is a game without any contextual clues in the day posts, we only have behavioral clues and we need to question everything we know. Therefore, I thought it necessary to explain away this "incriminating behavioral clue" that you seem to think I've displayed -_-. On March 13 2010 10:55 madnessman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote:
DT Check List:
CynanMachae
~OpZ~
Sidesprang
Medic Prot List:
Incognito
Bodyguard A
Bodyguard B Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen? Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town. It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless. Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 09:11 Incognito wrote:
2. Please refrain from deviating from this list unless you have VERY good reasons. Yuck. Also, what the heck is this: Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 03:53 Incognito wrote:
Day 1 lynch targets. Looks like the race is between BC and L. Who are you guys going to lynch?
I have a feeling Malongo/Foolishness/Versatile are good targets. All been quiet, all good enough to be mafia since I think the three candidates are town. They just haven't done enough for me to see them as town-sided. What does everyone else think? Why are you simply naming the other reputable players in the game? "Good enough to be mafia"? How does being "good" have any relation to their chance of being mafia in a game with randomly distributed roles? And being quiet isn't automatically a mafia tell. Maybe they just want to try a different style this game. Finally, did you put a serious effort into your election campaign beyond the initial posts? Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 10:18 nemY wrote:On March 13 2010 06:45 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 06:37 nemY wrote:
I think regardless of who gets elected the most important thing the DT(s) should NOT do is ROLE-CLAIM to the mayor/pardoner. The chances of one of them being GF is so high that it's just not worth it yet. Unless the DT is telling other people about it too, you'd think a DT for GF trade is good, no? Absolutely not. DT for GF is not a good trade. With no clue analysis, unlimited role checks and only behavior analysis, DT is the most powerful role in the game. nemY is absolutely right in this case. First of all the GF role only has a purpose if the DT is still around, so if you lose the DT, the GF is just another mafia member. Secondly, and I'm probably reiterating things that everyone knows, the power of the DT is not only to identify mafia but to privately or publicly confirm town members for various uses. (Private trust-worthy discussions, for example.) And so trading the DT for a single mafia member is not ideal. I'm surprised that this early in the game I'm making a post of this size focused on just one of our players, but those three statements are truly bad ideas that do not help the town. Whether they were things you truly overlooked while formulating your ideas or are intentional actions, the town will have to examine what plans you propose very carefully. P.S. Everyone who's using red and blue and whatever colors to strengthen your posts - please don't. The colors themselves do not contribute anything whatsoever to your reasoning, and instead (at least to me) shows that you don't have enough confidence in your arguments alone and have to rely on gimmicks to reinforce them. Wow... that was honestly a great, well thought out post Zona ^_^ On March 13 2010 13:10 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! I initially voted BC because he claimed to be DT, and a DT in one of the mayoral positions is extremely extremely helpful for the town. When it became clear that BC was definitely going to be mayor, I changed my vote to L, because he implied that he too is a powerful blue, and Incog never seemed to deny that he was a green. HOWEVER, as I was skimming through the posts I had missed, I came across this: Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 08:57 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 07:58 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:49 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 01:32 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. Also On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... I know what the rule is, I just think its dumb seeing as it hasn't always been that way. I'll vote later, probably for cobbler. And incog, why would mafia rather you in office rather than me? I know I'm not mafia, I also know I'm generally more active than you, and I've also stated that if I'm getting a role that can't be checked that I'm basically going to kill myself to have a full set of roleclaims. So pretty much no matter what I am, I'm claiming with the intent to prove it shortly thereafter. You, by contrast, are not offering any such game breaking attempts, yet you think mafia is more scared of you than me. But then you admit that you probably have like 3-4 fishy people voting for you. So how does that add up? It doesn't. I've got a paper due in 1.5 hours and I haven't even started formatting it, so I'll be back in 5.5 hours after transit/class is factored in. Uh I didn't say mafia would rather have me in office than you. I said I think they'd prefer to have you in office. The reason is because, as you have already noticed, people are trying to discredit and doubt you. I'd think its much easier to discredit you than me, and thus the mafia might think that they can deal with you better in office than me. I'm not saying mafia will be scared of me, but that it will just be more difficult to get rid of me than you. It was a rhetorical question. Ie, mafia would much rather have you in office sitting around nothing nothing as a green. Your statement here essentially implies that you aren't going actually step up and lead and be held accountable for the results. Somehow I don't see how that's a quality you should have. We already know who the DT is.... You know who's claimed to be the DT. You know he didn't want you to know, and you have no evidence supporting anything beyond that. Once we have a rolecheck or two to confirm his identity, we'll know things for certain. Once again, I'm not green. Why do you keep saying that? Its just like everyone else saying you're DT. I'm not implying that I'm trying to avoid leading. Yay reading comprehension. I'm looking at it from the a likely mafia point of view. You've done a good job painting me green, which may keep me alive once I lose office. Its harder to throw dirt on me. It would be simpler just to kill me. Its just a lot easier to discredit someone who posts abrasively and unclearly. Like you. So just look carefully at the people who vote you then try to plant seeds of doubt. That is all. L seriously, who do you think of lynching if elected mayor? Knowing that Incog. is ALSO claiming blue completely changed my perspective. Because what are the odds that the three most veteran players ARE ALL BLUE?? Between L and Incog. I was torn--was one of them lying? I decided that between L and Incog, L was marginally more suspicious in my eyes, especially with sidesprang voting for him out of nowhere and only saying some stupid post, completely meaningless post: Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 16:48 sidesprang wrote:This is my first post, its coming up really late. Sorry about that, FF13 messed up my schoolwork which then again messed up my mafiaposting. I've now read through all the posts, and i ended up voting for L. Beliving he is the best bet for pro-town player. Tho honestly i dont think im capable of spotting scummy behavior this early in the game :S When i analyzed players before i usualy was looking at clues because that was the easiest(altho im usualy wrong there to ). so I decided to change my vote to Incog. I later saw Zona's post, and wondered if it was a bad idea to impulsively switch to Incog. But with only three minutes left to spare and it still being 5 vs. 7, I figured it didn't matter--L would win pardoner. It turned 9 o clock and I thought voting was over. But then at 9.01 BM changed his vote, and thinking this was all incredibly suspicious, I tried to change mine back...but it was too late. On March 13 2010 16:08 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 15:17 L wrote:On March 13 2010 13:10 madnessman wrote:On March 13 2010 12:53 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! My vote did change, but my approach remained consistent: vote people who claimed blue. So yeah, you can hope I will change my mind. But will it happen? BOO! I initially voted BC because he claimed to be DT, and a DT in one of the mayoral positions is extremely extremely helpful for the town. When it became clear that BC was definitely going to be mayor, I changed my vote to L, because he implied that he too is a powerful blue, and Incog never seemed to deny that he was a green. HOWEVER, as I was skimming through the posts I had missed, I came across this: On March 13 2010 08:57 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 07:58 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:49 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 01:32 L wrote:On March 13 2010 01:12 citi.zen wrote:On March 13 2010 00:56 L wrote:On March 13 2010 00:17 johnnyspazz wrote:
L, why haven't you voted? I voted for me. I dunno why that doesn't count anymore. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. Also On March 11 2010 09:31 citi.zen wrote:
And L, you still cannot vote for yourself. Not even once, let alone twice. Sorry mate. I can't even remember the last game to allow people to vote for themselves. Weren't you the one accusing everyone of not reading carefully? La-la-la... I know what the rule is, I just think its dumb seeing as it hasn't always been that way. I'll vote later, probably for cobbler. And incog, why would mafia rather you in office rather than me? I know I'm not mafia, I also know I'm generally more active than you, and I've also stated that if I'm getting a role that can't be checked that I'm basically going to kill myself to have a full set of roleclaims. So pretty much no matter what I am, I'm claiming with the intent to prove it shortly thereafter. You, by contrast, are not offering any such game breaking attempts, yet you think mafia is more scared of you than me. But then you admit that you probably have like 3-4 fishy people voting for you. So how does that add up? It doesn't. I've got a paper due in 1.5 hours and I haven't even started formatting it, so I'll be back in 5.5 hours after transit/class is factored in. Uh I didn't say mafia would rather have me in office than you. I said I think they'd prefer to have you in office. The reason is because, as you have already noticed, people are trying to discredit and doubt you. I'd think its much easier to discredit you than me, and thus the mafia might think that they can deal with you better in office than me. I'm not saying mafia will be scared of me, but that it will just be more difficult to get rid of me than you. It was a rhetorical question. Ie, mafia would much rather have you in office sitting around nothing nothing as a green. Your statement here essentially implies that you aren't going actually step up and lead and be held accountable for the results. Somehow I don't see how that's a quality you should have. We already know who the DT is.... You know who's claimed to be the DT. You know he didn't want you to know, and you have no evidence supporting anything beyond that. Once we have a rolecheck or two to confirm his identity, we'll know things for certain. Once again, I'm not green. Why do you keep saying that? Its just like everyone else saying you're DT. I'm not implying that I'm trying to avoid leading. Yay reading comprehension. I'm looking at it from the a likely mafia point of view. You've done a good job painting me green, which may keep me alive once I lose office. Its harder to throw dirt on me. It would be simpler just to kill me. Its just a lot easier to discredit someone who posts abrasively and unclearly. Like you. So just look carefully at the people who vote you then try to plant seeds of doubt. That is all. L seriously, who do you think of lynching if elected mayor? Knowing that Incog. is ALSO claiming blue completely changed my perspective. Because what are the odds that the three most veteran players ARE ALL BLUE?? Between L and Incog. I was torn--was one of them lying? I decided that between L and Incog, L was marginally more suspicious in my eyes, especially with sidesprang voting for him out of nowhere and only saying some stupid post, completely meaningless post: On March 12 2010 16:48 sidesprang wrote:This is my first post, its coming up really late. Sorry about that, FF13 messed up my schoolwork which then again messed up my mafiaposting. I've now read through all the posts, and i ended up voting for L. Beliving he is the best bet for pro-town player. Tho honestly i dont think im capable of spotting scummy behavior this early in the game :S When i analyzed players before i usualy was looking at clues because that was the easiest(altho im usualy wrong there to ). so I decided to change my vote to Incog. I later saw Zona's post, and wondered if it was a bad idea to impulsively switch to Incog. But with only three minutes left to spare and it still being 5 vs. 7, I figured it didn't matter--L would win pardoner. It turned 9 o clock and I thought voting was over. But then at 9.01 BM changed his vote, and thinking this was all incredibly suspicious, I tried to change mine back...but it was too late. Short version: I switched my vote but thought it wouldn't matter. Sorry, doesn't work like that. Did you not read the entirety of my post? Short version: Voted for you ONLY because I was under the impression that Incog. was green. Realized that he claimed blue as well, decided I was less suspicious of him than you. Had second thoughts and tried to change back my vote when last minute sketchy voting happened by jeejee+BM, but alas it was too late. On March 14 2010 13:44 madnessman wrote:I have a question. Mafia KNOWS L is a confirmed blue role. And yet they don't kill him. Does nobody else find this odd? Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 04:59 L wrote:On March 14 2010 04:47 Iaaan wrote:
I am disappointed that jeejee died, even if I can see how his vote switching was suspicious.
Definitely going to be interesting to go back and look at his posts, I remember that he was very persistent at calling people out. Don't see how you can be disappointed that a green who actively tried to fuck with the town is gone via the day 1 lynch. This was probably one of the best day 1 lynches in history. Just because people don't want you in a mayoral position... How does them make them trying to "fuck" with town? How can they be fucking with the town if we don't even know for certain that you're blue? Maybe you're mafia and they're actually doing the town a favor? It's pompous posts like this that caused me to change my vote. And to those questioning my voting patterns... We have three of the most experienced players ALL RUNNING FOR MAYOR AND ALL CLAIMING BLUE. How can I vote with absolute certainty and without any qualms whatsoever when this is quite suspicious, and I am filled with uncertainty and suspecting that one of them might be lying..but don't know which one? On March 14 2010 13:51 madnessman wrote:
PS. Isn't it equally likely that people trying to act nondescriptly and voting early on could be mafia too? As we saw in the last game, NONE of the swing voters for redtooth were mafia. On March 15 2010 12:31 madnessman wrote:
Hey guys, I'm leaving tomorrow to fly from NY to Japan. It's roughly going to be 16 hours or so of travelling total, so I'm not going to be able to post. As such, there's a chance that I'm going to get lynched, but I won't have the opportunity to defend myself :S
Therefore, I'd like to defend myself and hope that when I get internet access next, I won't find myself hanging from the gallows -_-.
People seem to be suspicious of me because of what happened during voting. First off, as I've mentioned earlier, I changed my vote because I realized that Incog was also claiming a blue role. I'd voted for L on the assumption that Incog was green. Seeing that Incog also claimed blue changed everything; if it were between Incog (green) and L (blue), I would choose L. Why? I was uncertain of L, but L has been claiming that he's an important blue role that has the ability to self-kill mafia/put them in harms way. So even though I was very uncertain of L, it seemed too much of a gamble to vote for Incog (a green) and not give L protection. HOWEVER, seeing that Incog claimed blue, that whole thought process was void. Between Incog (blue) and L (blue), I was preferred Incog.
Secondly, the last three people to change their votes and cause Incog to win pardoner instead of L were me, JeeJee, and Bill Murray. I changed my vote at 8.33, changing the vote count to Incog 5: L 7. If I were mafia, I would need TWO more people to change their votes in order for Incog to win. Jeejee changed his vote at 8:58. This changed the vote count to Incog 6: L 6. As we all know, Jeejee was a green townie. As such, if I were mafia and wanted Incog to win, don't you guys think it would be cutting it AWFULLY AWFULLY close to wait until 8:58 for 2 more people to change their votes?? If I were mafia, there's no way that I could have known Jeejee would try to swing votes, as he initiated the act to swing votes completely of his own accord. We then see that BM changed his vote to Incog at 9:01. This is ONE MINUTE after voting should have ended. I even explicitly pointed out in the voting thread that BM was voting AFTER when I believed voting was closed. If I were mafia and trying to swing votes, why would I even protest that BM was voting after 9? I even tried to change my vote back because I got suspicious as hell by JeeJee and BM swinging votes literally 3 mins before voting ended. Also, BM has been pointing fingers nonstop at me. If we were voting and acting in unison, why would he be on my case in such a ridiculous fashion? I think BM himself is acting scummy as hell, and in a much different fashion than he was last game. He accuses me of being mafia merely for defending L. When I change my vote to Incog, even though HE WAS THE ONE WHO CAST THE LAST DECIDING VOTE, he accuses me for voting for the same person that he voted for. What is the logic behind it? I honestly don't understand.
To those who are voting for me to be lynched, please voice the reasons why you guys are voting for me. And if you are unmoved by my explanation and logic, and still believe me to be mafia, please tell me why. So that I may defend myself before I fly off tomorrow -_-. Honestly, if I were mafia, what would be the purpose behind my actions? There would be literally NO POINT in me doing what I did, especially since the very person who changed the election outcome voted the same way as i did, yet has been accusing me of being mafia, both when i voted for L and when i voted for incog.
If I were a member of the mafia, why would i change my vote to incog if in the 2 ppl who voted after me, 1 was townie and the other has been accusing me nonstop for stupid baseless reasons?
I believe this shows that i wasn't in any way trying to swing votes. i honestly changed my vote only because i realized that incog was also claiming blue. If you're going to vote for me to be lynched, please state why if you remain unconvinced >_> On March 16 2010 22:27 madnessman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 09:49 L wrote:Hi, do you still feel the same way about madnessman?
First, volunteering to be killed is a gambit that can be played by both town and mafia members. And I must have missed where you used your blue abilities to prove your alignment. Mang, good quoting skills. 1) He PM'd me afterwards, like I said in the thread and made an emotional "OH FUCK I SCREWED UP SORRY (((((((((((((((((((((((" post. Generally, I've found these scummy in the past, but Ver's a better player than I am when it comes to looking at individuals and thinks this is a typical town reaction to a bad situation. Given that a policy lynch on being a douchebag vote swinger could go to BM or MM, I'd rather it goes to BM, hence my vote. Which is going to stay there. oh gawd. I pm'd you saying: Show nested quote +ahh shit. sorry you got screwed over, and that it was partly my fault. do you think that you'll get killed tonight? L, plz don't be such a drama queen. With that said, I am back! Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. LOL wtf is this post. It's definitely likely that one of them is mafia, but we shouldn't try to discern which one of them is by the process of elimination, especially when ALL THREE of them are claiming blue, and as such, there is so much at stake. Surely there's a better way to do this then going "inny minny miney mo" and pointing at one of them? Lol.
Beacons of light! Shining through the Liquipedian darkness.. ;p
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 07:17 Fulgrim wrote:
It isn't safe for normal mafia to run for office, so they won't do that, the main danger here is GF. (Being unfamiliar with the busdriver rules, a mafia aligned one could switch the DT check off the elected official maybe?) Regardless we want to avoid getting a GF into office. Right now we have JeeJee, L, and BC running for office, chances are one of them is going to be GF. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see some more from the candidates or if there are anymore people that announce their campaign. On March 11 2010 08:25 Fulgrim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Looking over the rules for the game, it looks like pardoner isn't going to play that much of an important role this game, its more of the mayor that we have to worry about. The mafia want to have the mayor role, and the only way they are going to get it safely is through their godfather. I think its probably safe to say that no "ordinary" mafia are going to be running for office. I propose that we check the mayor on night one, (1-12), and then the other DT(s) 13-25 check town members, because Its important to check the mayor just to be safe, but I think checking the sheriff on the first night (potential gf risk), alot more information and more possiblities to set up town circles. Especially since its not critical if we lose the sheriff role to a godfather, because even if we do there would be no way to tell by simple DT chekcs. On March 11 2010 11:29 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. L seems pretty legit this game, I think I'm going to vote for him. On checking elected officials: its kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't type of thing. We can gain SOME information from doing it even if its only the supposed roles of the officials. Originally I suggested that we don't check the pardoner because it doesn't matter, but as L points out, it can really screw us over in the late game. It might be better to check both elected officials tonight and get it over with, so we don't have to waste checks later on to confirm their roles. Its better to play safe then to lose later just because we didn't want to spend the time to make sure. On March 11 2010 11:30 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:28 Malongo wrote:
dont be a pussy ^ trust that guy seems legit.
Just as i said before: i rather go with an active mayor than trusting a half active mayor that wants to go in because "its better for the town" aka im town dont let mafia take the spots. Remember last game redtooth got himself lynched by L and a group of tards simply because he didnt really wanted to be mayor. Id really love to see more newblood there but at this point its useless, so keeping my word and sticking on the Ls. On the plus side he knows that we like to lynch bad officials so he wont fuck it up unless he is purposedly doing it. This game is going to get weird if the drivers switch targets smartly, however i dont see that really happening in the first 2 days. I like Incognitos try so we are protecting at least one of the BGs.
Way to make it seem like I copied you saying the word "legit" On March 11 2010 11:57 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. If no greens ran for office though, you would just be handing the mafia a hitlist of the candidates that were running.
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Iaaan's extremely important posts
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 12:28 Iaaan wrote:
I would just like everyone to know that I have nothing to contribute at the moment, except that I agree with citi.zen that L should just roleclaim cause he will probably get killed anyway if he doesn't get elected and isn't mafia+we can hold him accountable if he does get elected, and that nemY likes men. On March 12 2010 09:08 Iaaan wrote:
I originally voted for incognito just because I thought it would be nice to protect a veteran who posts alot. No ses pools of noobiness/inactivty.
But, I'm changing my vote to BC, simply because he looks like the candidate that is easiest to hold accountable. L is quite ambiguous. Not answering questions/confirming things and posting lots of walls of text.
Also, I think that whichever of the three doesn't win will probably be the first person lynched if they aren't mafia. On March 12 2010 09:08 Iaaan wrote:
I originally voted for incognito just because I thought it would be nice to protect a veteran who posts alot. No ses pools of noobiness/inactivty.
But, I'm changing my vote to BC, simply because he looks like the candidate that is easiest to hold accountable. L is quite ambiguous. Not answering questions/confirming things and posting lots of walls of text.
Also, I think that whichever of the three doesn't win will probably be the first person lynched if they aren't mafia. On March 12 2010 14:29 Iaaan wrote:
I actually changed my mind about what I said about L, your posts do add alot to the game IMO, but again BC is easier to hold accountable that the other candidates for his actions if he is false claiming DT. Unless im mistaken, your saying your not a DT, which to me seems like the only confirmable role. A mafia pretending to be a medic can simply say they are protecting someone, then simply not hit them at all. A vigilantee is a one time use, and a you could just use one of your mafia KP to fake a vigi hit. Vets are probably better to not be in office. If your green and you have a 'larger plan,' thats great, but again it seems fakeable and probably less useful than a DT in office.
Also if you don't win the election and your not red, your dead night 1 anyway. A veteran who has been hinting he is blue? why would the mafia pass that opportunity up? I don't see how not claiming at this point protects you. I hope you have a good plan that justifies you hinting instead of roleclaiming. Even if you roleclaim once you win, DT is still easier to confirm than any other town role. On March 12 2010 14:31 Iaaan wrote:
Also, at this point I don't think that any of the main three candidates are more or less mafia than any of the others, but it is likely that at least one of them is. Obviously its great for us if they are all town aligned, but it isn't really helpful to hope for that On March 13 2010 04:02 Iaaan wrote:
@incognito
It seems to me like the mafia will kill malongo/foolishness fairly quickly if they are town, because of their senority. I think it would be better to lynch someone out of the mafia's way, who is suspicious or likely will become suspicious. IE someone with useless/small amounts of posts that doesn't have a chance of being modkilled. On March 13 2010 04:46 Iaaan wrote:
Well okay your right, they wont die immediately if they are town, you/L/bc will (if your town). I still favour versatile over the other two, if malongo/foolishness are town, they will be hopefully more useful, and killed by the mafia before versatile will.
I think I kinda sounds unclear about my thoughts, in my head there are kind of two lists which ignore roles completely, people the mafia want to kill, and people they don't care about until they have won. Since at this point in the game, no suspicions can really be solid, I think the town should kill someone who is potentially mafia, but that if they are town will not be killed by the mafia until the end of the game. On March 13 2010 04:47 Iaaan wrote:
my thought as a mafia would be (assuming malongo/foolishness are town): yay the town wants to kill their veterans! we don't have to waste our own KP! On March 14 2010 04:47 Iaaan wrote:
I am disappointed that jeejee died, even if I can see how his vote switching was suspicious.
Definitely going to be interesting to go back and look at his posts, I remember that he was very persistent at calling people out. [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 05:49 Iaaan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 13:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:42 JeeJee wrote:On March 11 2010 13:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 11 2010 13:25 JeeJee wrote:
so L, you're not an idiot, what do you think implying "hey I'm not green" is going to accomplish, pre-election? It appears that he is hoping to get into office based on "hey im not green" yeah but nobody's dumb enough to put any weight on that claim, so i'm just wondering what his real reason was for mentioning it. mindgamez'ing the mafia? Really? go look at the votes, and re-read a few posts in the last two-three pages. Its been enough to garner attention. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead. that post for instance just goes to show. No one should be roleclaiming till after the election realistically. On March 12 2010 00:14 JeeJee wrote:
What in the world..
Back up, foos. Let's step back and think. We have a bunch of people who are claiming non-townie roles running for mayor. We already have PM claims going on (what the hell?). All this is going to lead to some stupid days 2-3.
L you are being quite scummy tbh right now. You have to consider the effect of having only blues run for office. It gives the mafia a list of blues, lawl. But surely you know that. Coupled with your "fun role" insinuation which is almost surely not a DT, I have to wonder what you're really doing . . .
It doesn't add up, brah On March 12 2010 01:11 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 01:04 citi.zen wrote:On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia. I would probably vote for bill before you. However, there are two blue claims, so I must vote for one of those. However misguided their actions are to date. wrong wrong wrong why are you voting because they claimed they are not green? That is stupid. Anyone can do that, nobody can be verified. You should vote on those that seem the least scummy/most likely to be innocent. And yes they'll likely end up blue given the format but them claiming so should not be affecting your decision Look at the plans they've proposed, look at their participation in the thread and how they respond to other's questions. I wouldn't be voting for L if I were you On March 12 2010 04:07 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 02:21 L wrote:L you are being quite scummy tbh right now. You have to consider the effect of having only blues run for office. It gives the mafia a list of blues, lawl. But surely you know that. Coupled with your "fun role" insinuation which is almost surely not a DT, I have to wonder what you're really doing . . .
It doesn't add up, brah Not really. It seems pretty obvious that a number of the people running probably aren't blue; I didn't tell people not to run if they're green prior to after pretty much all of the competitive candidates already threw their hat in the ring; the question is whether or not they think they should push for the role after thinking about the game format. This game format is interesting because despite the fact that the offices can be confirmed, they can also be easily disposed of because of the bodyguard issues. If cobbler's a DT, I think its best for him to push. If Incog is green, I think its better for him to just step out of the race. If bill murray.. well no one cares there. If one of us are mafia, we're getting elected; Period. The question would be which of the innocents is getting in? Its also possible that no mafia get in if they decide to simply not make a run for office, which happens too. The alternative position, again, is that someone who's green can run for, say, pardoner, then have himself killed in order to get an ordered roleclaim started. I find it unlikely that anyone besides me would have the balls to do this because: 1) Ver's not in the game. 2) Showtime's not in the game 3) Judge is not in the game. The key point, however, is that medics can prevent a lot of mafia kp from getting through; If the medic protects the bgs under attack, it would take 2 full turns to break through the bodyguards, then a doublestack to kill the office member in play. That however, relies on the ability of us to focus our only medic on the BGs, which means that roleclaimed non-office blues present us with protection problems; Unless we have a bus claim to a confirmed office member, we can't really protect both extra and intra office blues. This is why I didn't want people explicitly claiming, and that's why it didn't matter if I said people shouldn't run as green: the candidacies were already in and no one had claimed at that point, so we were ironclad. If you guys think that my refusal to tell you what role I am is presents some sort of odd scumtell; you're retarded. You guys simply haven't been thinking about how to win. There's more to mafia than not have town members die; you need to develop a plan forward with the aim of winning otherwise you lose. This game has no clues, it has no list checks, it has very little kp on both teams. Its going to last for quite a while, so think ahead to days 3-4. Unlike in previous games wherein the game is basically over by then, that's simply not the case here. I personally have a plan that's almost assured to have us win. Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim. That said, there's a potential mafia bus driver problem, but I can get around that if I'm elected by using our bus and a few pms. I'll explain further during the night, and I'll need a few people to trust me, but if everything works out the game's pretty much won for town. On March 12 2010 04:29 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 04:24 L wrote:On March 12 2010 04:17 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 04:10 L wrote:it's amazing how you can write so much yet say so little Its amazing how you can write something and convey only a complete lack of reading comprehension. oh i completely understood everything you wrote. unfortunately there just wasn't that much to it, which is what i pointed out. sorry if that was too complex of a thought process for you Once again, you write something and convey a complete lack of reading comprehension. You sir, are impressive. you're not helping your case On March 12 2010 23:52 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 11:47 L wrote:On March 12 2010 11:44 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 11:29 johnnyspazz wrote:Someone said that I'm running on the basis that I'm blue: I'm not. Greens shouldn't be running for office unless they plan on losing. i i'm a little confused here it's true he's running on the basis that he has a role that makes him want mayor and is not green he's just basically leaving open the possibility to go "lulz im a not-aligned busdriver" Did you read what I wrote about being green? I would suggest that you check the part involving someone killing themselves with the addendum that says "the only player in this game who's ballsy enough to do that is L". Am I L? Oh, looks like I am. Hence if I'm running as green, I'm going to kill myself as confirmation in the part of a larger plan. 2+2. except you're not you have explcitly stated you're running for mayor, not pardoner you've also explicitly stated anyone running for mayor as a green is doing dumb shit and wants to lose. ergo, unless you're doing dumb shit and want town to lose, you're not green Collection of Jeejee's important posts, which you should all read. Jeejee is against L the whole game, supporting incognito. The only reason L is supporting this lynch is because of how Jeejee was making things difficult for him. Your not basing your opinion on real analysis, just emotions. He didn't gut the towns plans, just yours. With BC, it looks like he never really agreed with Jeejee, and with L putting emphasis on his last minute vote changing, was pushed into lynching Jeejee. I'm a little disappointed with BC, if you actually read Jeejee's posts, it is very clear that it was not surprising at all that he vote for incognito. I'm sure the reason he waited until the end was because he expected the mafia too keep the votes on their candidate close, and that if he changed earlier, the mafia would simply switch a few of their members to their candidate. It has been said, if the mafia want their candidate to be elected, they will be elected. [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 05:52 Iaaan wrote:and whoops, I messed up the quotes. + Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 13:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 13:42 JeeJee wrote:On March 11 2010 13:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 11 2010 13:25 JeeJee wrote:
so L, you're not an idiot, what do you think implying "hey I'm not green" is going to accomplish, pre-election?
It appears that he is hoping to get into office based on "hey im not green" yeah but nobody's dumb enough to put any weight on that claim, so i'm just wondering what his real reason was for mentioning it. mindgamez'ing the mafia? Really? go look at the votes, and re-read a few posts in the last two-three pages. Its been enough to garner attention. On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead. that post for instance just goes to show. No one should be roleclaiming till after the election realistically. Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 00:14 JeeJee wrote:
What in the world..
Back up, foos. Let's step back and think. We have a bunch of people who are claiming non-townie roles running for mayor. We already have PM claims going on (what the hell?). All this is going to lead to some stupid days 2-3.
L you are being quite scummy tbh right now. You have to consider the effect of having only blues run for office. It gives the mafia a list of blues, lawl. But surely you know that. Coupled with your "fun role" insinuation which is almost surely not a DT, I have to wonder what you're really doing . . .
It doesn't add up, brah Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 01:11 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 01:04 citi.zen wrote:On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia. I would probably vote for bill before you. However, there are two blue claims, so I must vote for one of those. However misguided their actions are to date. wrong wrong wrong why are you voting because they claimed they are not green? That is stupid. Anyone can do that, nobody can be verified. You should vote on those that seem the least scummy/most likely to be innocent. And yes they'll likely end up blue given the format but them claiming so should not be affecting your decision Look at the plans they've proposed, look at their participation in the thread and how they respond to other's questions. I wouldn't be voting for L if I were you Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 04:07 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 02:21 L wrote:L you are being quite scummy tbh right now. You have to consider the effect of having only blues run for office. It gives the mafia a list of blues, lawl. But surely you know that. Coupled with your "fun role" insinuation which is almost surely not a DT, I have to wonder what you're really doing . . .
It doesn't add up, brah Not really. It seems pretty obvious that a number of the people running probably aren't blue; I didn't tell people not to run if they're green prior to after pretty much all of the competitive candidates already threw their hat in the ring; the question is whether or not they think they should push for the role after thinking about the game format. This game format is interesting because despite the fact that the offices can be confirmed, they can also be easily disposed of because of the bodyguard issues. If cobbler's a DT, I think its best for him to push. If Incog is green, I think its better for him to just step out of the race. If bill murray.. well no one cares there. If one of us are mafia, we're getting elected; Period. The question would be which of the innocents is getting in? Its also possible that no mafia get in if they decide to simply not make a run for office, which happens too. The alternative position, again, is that someone who's green can run for, say, pardoner, then have himself killed in order to get an ordered roleclaim started. I find it unlikely that anyone besides me would have the balls to do this because: 1) Ver's not in the game. 2) Showtime's not in the game 3) Judge is not in the game. The key point, however, is that medics can prevent a lot of mafia kp from getting through; If the medic protects the bgs under attack, it would take 2 full turns to break through the bodyguards, then a doublestack to kill the office member in play. That however, relies on the ability of us to focus our only medic on the BGs, which means that roleclaimed non-office blues present us with protection problems; Unless we have a bus claim to a confirmed office member, we can't really protect both extra and intra office blues. This is why I didn't want people explicitly claiming, and that's why it didn't matter if I said people shouldn't run as green: the candidacies were already in and no one had claimed at that point, so we were ironclad. If you guys think that my refusal to tell you what role I am is presents some sort of odd scumtell; you're retarded. You guys simply haven't been thinking about how to win. There's more to mafia than not have town members die; you need to develop a plan forward with the aim of winning otherwise you lose. This game has no clues, it has no list checks, it has very little kp on both teams. Its going to last for quite a while, so think ahead to days 3-4. Unlike in previous games wherein the game is basically over by then, that's simply not the case here. I personally have a plan that's almost assured to have us win. Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim. That said, there's a potential mafia bus driver problem, but I can get around that if I'm elected by using our bus and a few pms. I'll explain further during the night, and I'll need a few people to trust me, but if everything works out the game's pretty much won for town. On March 12 2010 04:29 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 04:24 L wrote:On March 12 2010 04:17 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 04:10 L wrote:it's amazing how you can write so much yet say so little Its amazing how you can write something and convey only a complete lack of reading comprehension. oh i completely understood everything you wrote. unfortunately there just wasn't that much to it, which is what i pointed out. sorry if that was too complex of a thought process for you Once again, you write something and convey a complete lack of reading comprehension. You sir, are impressive. you're not helping your case On March 12 2010 23:52 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 11:47 L wrote:On March 12 2010 11:44 JeeJee wrote:On March 12 2010 11:29 johnnyspazz wrote:Someone said that I'm running on the basis that I'm blue: I'm not. Greens shouldn't be running for office unless they plan on losing. i i'm a little confused here it's true he's running on the basis that he has a role that makes him want mayor and is not green he's just basically leaving open the possibility to go "lulz im a not-aligned busdriver" Did you read what I wrote about being green? I would suggest that you check the part involving someone killing themselves with the addendum that says "the only player in this game who's ballsy enough to do that is L". Am I L? Oh, looks like I am. Hence if I'm running as green, I'm going to kill myself as confirmation in the part of a larger plan. 2+2. except you're not you have explcitly stated you're running for mayor, not pardoner you've also explicitly stated anyone running for mayor as a green is doing dumb shit and wants to lose. ergo, unless you're doing dumb shit and want town to lose, you're not green and of course I mess up the spoiler/quotes. Fixed it in this to make it easier for everyone.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 06:47 Iaaan wrote:@L I already showed that his vote change was to be expected, why would be vote for you in one thread, and go completely against you in the other? You were talking about killing Jeejee for accountability, at least take responsibility yourself for pushing a bad lynch. And BC also, why didn't you kill madnessman, he switched first and independently of jeejee, without posting reasons in the thread beforehand, or bill murray even? Jeejee was obviously the most dangerous one out of all of them, he actually pushed against people. I'm sure the mafia are glad to have him out of the way. And you say that if the mafia wanted BC or incognito in, they got them in. Well, You would have gotten in, if it hadn't been for a townie interfering, Jeejee. You could just as easily be mafia, angry at Jeejee for fighting against you, then stopping you from getting elected. @Bill murray How does you dying prove that incognito is innocent? Your just tying yourself to him because you think you might die and you want to influence the game somehow, by creating a link that doesn't exist between you and someone you blindly trust.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 07:18 Iaaan wrote:I don't see what your role has to do with this, but all that being said, I am voting to lynch madnessman for now. His posts have been short/lacking content, except for when he had to defend himself. His vote switch was different from Jeejee's, he changed his independently of Jeejee, it is more suspicious. I may change this vote, but I always like to get my votes in early, just incase. Your doing the same thing with bill murray and me that you did with Jeejee, Bill murray killed you last game, and so you want him killed. He isnt smart and just wants to live, so he bandwagons on with Jeejee to screw up the election for you. And now you want me to die if I get you killed. Seriously, keep your emotions out of the game, I thought you were a better player than that. I do think that L could be mafia, but he could just as easily be blue. I don't think we should be trying to lynch him at this point, he is a smart player who can help the town if he tries, that plus the fact that he has hinted at his blue role (although for some reason not actually claiming a role protects him somehow...?) over the thread makes him a huge target for the mafia, we should not lynch him when we aren't sure he is red, and is a great weapon is he isn't. But do not forget about him either, if he doesn't take a hit in the next few days, he will probably be the biggest suspect. Depending on circumstances of course. Incognito, I don't think I have seen you roleclaim yet. Is there any reason for that, now that you are protected?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 07:24 Iaaan wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 05:27 L wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 05:00 XeliN wrote:In what way did he actively try to fuck with the town?[/QUOTE] Well, he basically gutted the plan that was on the table, allowed mafia to swing under the premise of working with him and got the person with the shadiest vote list elected. Do you honestly not see how that would cause problems or require the town to use a lynch or two to clear up? [/QUOTE] And also to reiterate this point, Jeejee and Bill murray together switched their votes. Jeejee had obvious reasons and is now confirmed town, bill murray simply doesn't like L or want to die. Madnessman, The other guy who switched his votes, was independent of this, and I don't see why he switched his vote from what he has posted so far. This is the only switched vote that is suspicious, it would be useless to lynch Bill, and it was useless to lynch Jeejee.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 09:02 Iaaan wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 08:23 L wrote:[quote]Your doing the same thing with bill murray and me[/quote] Wait wait wait, with you? Seeing as I haven't typed your name once this entire game in my recollection... How do you figure? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 06:59 L wrote:I mean, I don't even understand why you'd try to use hindsight to justify a literally TO THE MINUTE voteswing. When I die and flip whatever I flip, you can take responsability by dying the next day (unless I die tonight, in which case kill bill murray first.[/QUOTE] I guess thats not quite the same thing... but.... My main point of all that is that, as dumb as bill murray is, his vote switch and jeejees vote switches were connected, and bill's main reason seems like it was simply because he doesnt like you. Maybe he is red and was taking advantage of Jeejee's PM. Probably not. Bill may be acting scummy, but he is also acting the same way he has every game. Madnessman's vote switch wasn't connected to theirs, if vote switches are suspicious, then he is suspicious, he wasn't following anyone that we've seen so far. I'm going to wait to see the day post until I say anything more.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 09:05 Iaaan wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 08:58 Abenson wrote:This game sure seems slow...[/QUOTE] I wish foolishness was here right now... + Show Spoiler +[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 14 2010 09:06 Iaaan wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 09:04 L wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 09:00 citi.zen wrote:Weak defense L. Feeling guilty about something other than the jeejee lynching? After all, BC decidedthat one alone. As far as I can tell you were still advocating killing BM. It's not like jeejee got hit at night [/QUOTE] 1) Nah, i said JeeJee should also be a target. Woulda preferred BM, but oh well. 2) If your team hits me, you're probably going to lose the game for your team. So tell them to hit someone else. I probably have a medic on me anyways. [/QUOTE] revenge accuse again? ... ... ... ... ... + Show Spoiler + I do agree that is a scum post tho. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 15 2010 02:10 Iaaan wrote:[QUOTE] On March 14 2010 14:44 L wrote:Citi.zen, if you feel so strongly about killing me, how's about we kill bill murray today and if I'm wrong, you kill me tomorrow. Sounds like everyone wins. [/QUOTE] useless, BM being green doesn't make you red, you just don't like eachother. No one will actually try to get you lynched for BM being green. BC, are you going to say what your night actions were? Incognito, are you going to roleclaim? L, Are you going to respond to Zona's post asking why you have told the mafia you are blue, but haven't told the town your role? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 15 2010 10:52 Iaaan wrote:Interesting how people have apparently been roleclaiming to bc/L/incognito when none of them are confirmed town yet.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 15 2010 10:57 Iaaan wrote:In regards to voting, looks like Bill murray hopped on the first bandwagon against someone, and Abenson doesn't want to die himself, so he joins the bandwagon. I support the lynches of both Abenson and madnessman.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] On March 17 2010 07:09 L wrote:I suggest people read the last 2 pages very carefully; someone's trying to cover something up by spamming.
Take a guess at who.[/QUOTE] and take a look at page 49 (: I still am not convinced that BM is mafia, but it is almost worth it to kill him to stop the spam, and let people (L) focus their attention on other people. I don't like him flipping green being used to indicate that other people are red, those connections are most likely completely wrong.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 11:39 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? I always wondered why GF's always pick blue roles instead of green, wouldn't it make more sense to pick green because there are more of them? On March 12 2010 09:39 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 09:27 madnessman wrote:On March 12 2010 09:08 Iaaan wrote:
I originally voted for incognito just because I thought it would be nice to protect a veteran who posts alot. No ses pools of noobiness/inactivty.
But, I'm changing my vote to BC, simply because he looks like the candidate that is easiest to hold accountable. L is quite ambiguous. Not answering questions/confirming things and posting lots of walls of text.
Also, I think that whichever of the three doesn't win will probably be the first person lynched if they aren't mafia. I originally dismissed L as well for his hoity-toity posting, but after reading his posts more closely, I am pretty convinced he's town-aligned. I wouldn't say his posts are gems "chock full of chocolatey goodness," but they DO have a lot of substance. It's just that his rhetoric/phrasing make it very easy to miss what he implies. As such, I don't think he should be readily dismissed as a candidate just because he is not confirming things... My personal guess would be that he's vigil/bus driver. I also think L is town, for the reasons Incognito addressed. If L wins and is checked if he is town aligned, we could assume that Incognito is also town aligned. If all of the members running for candidacy are town aligned, that is a huge advantage for the town. If we can get two of us in the office, I think the game will be easy win for us.
I was bending towards ~Opz~ too, his posts are quite erratic
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 14:00 d3_crescentia wrote:I have nothing substantial to say right now; been sick and following the thread but not paying too close attention. Though, I guess I can point the FOS on Abenson, for the following post: Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:47 Abenson wrote:
Reading the posts above, I have come to conclude that the town does indeed need a pro-town mayor/pardoner, whether they be blue or not. Therefore I propose that all the veterans make a few posts explaining their reasoning about how this game will work, and to also give the more inexperienced players (like me) someone to vote for. Is he just being lazy, or is he mafia trying to get the town locked into a plan? WHO KNOWS?! On March 13 2010 15:47 d3_crescentia wrote:
Okay, wait.
In this game, why SHOULDN'T a GF more easily be able to fake DT, if rolechecks aren't returned until morning? Wouldn't GF be able to "check" a corpse after everyone else has found out about it? Obviously it would start to seem less of a coincidence as time goes on but the number of scum tactics is far from exhausted - claiming Bus Driver shenanigans, sacrificing their own members, etc.
This is why I don't like the idea of public check lists - it gives the mafia more information to play with and manipulate us with. I'd rather the DTs do an arbitrary check - say, the player that is two spaces above their name on the first page (crossing over to the bottom if they're near the top) OR SOME OTHER ARBITRARY SYSTEM, don't really care. There's such thing as organization without disclosure.
The other thing that I'm sort of surprised about is that the sheer importance of the DT role should make us very, very suspicious of our elected officials, no matter how good/bad their plans are for town. It's inconceivable that at least one of our candidates (myself excluded) isn't scum, and the fact that all three of them are strong players with some pretty shady tactics during the election should beg closer scrutiny in the days to come. On March 13 2010 15:50 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 15:33 Zona wrote:
I would like to call out L, nemY, and Bloodycobbler for voting for d3_crescentia.
Not being allowed to abstain in votes is a huge plus for town members as votes reveal information that can be used to evaluate a player later in the game.
Yet the three of you subvert that by essentially abstaining by voting for someone who has basically not participated in the game so far. Explain yourselves - why can you not commit to helping the town by leaving a paper trail of your opinion? Easy answer - because they didn't like/trust any of the other candidates. Why would anyone jeopardize their own chances at winning by voting for your own rival, mafia or not? It's not very smart. On March 14 2010 11:40 d3_crescentia wrote:
So Incognito, when are you planning on that roleclaim? On March 17 2010 13:47 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 17 2010 13:31 d3_crescentia wrote:
Dear town, please don't waste a lynch on me. I don't mind being killed by mafia, but I would be very sad if you wasted your lynches on me.
There's something not right about Xelin right now. What bothers me isn't his inconsistent behavior in this single game... but in that apparently he feels much, much better about his mafia-detection in this game, enough that he would run himself on a platform in the early game. The fact that he defends BM is irrelevant to me - BM plays so ridiculously that he could be anything. It's not enough to make me think, "yes, Xelin is as RED as cherry pie" but obviously if the town decides to lynch him and prove me wrong I won't say a word. I think the case with Iaaan is similar - he wouldn't be trying retarded PM-traps unless he was town. Then again we can lynch him too and see what happens.
I think Foolishness is a much stronger candidate to lynch, given he hasn't really said anything in recent memory and could very well be GF. I'm also wondering about Nemy, who's been relatively silent throughout the game as well. l10f is a pretty bad choice for lynch, because as far as I know ALL of the games he's played in he's stayed on the down-low, even when he was blue/green. The time to root out inactives is now, yes - but we've got to pick the right ones.
Incog, have you explained WHY you switched sidesprang and L? That's the part that bothers me the most at this point, because while your abilities aren't in question your alignment still is. At this point I'm thinking it might even be beneficial for a mafia-aligned Bus to perform some pro-town actions in the beginning. We swapped sidesprang and L for a few reasons. Sidesprang we felt was semi fishy for day 1. He is also a player that if he was green and died we could most likely live without. The bus would save L from any night hits to give him a chance to lay his bombs. Seriously, that move is self expainatory. He could still be the mafia bus driver, but with this much pressure on himself, hes more likely to just get offed with every other bus driver. So somehow you all just magically knew that the other two were blue? That's what bothers me. I'm surprised the mafia wouldn't run any of their own, unless they KNEW how powerful DTs could be in office, and thus would rather have them in than out, and hope to stack hits on BGs so they can eliminate the offices. But it seems odd so far that they'd waste hits on Vivi and Fulgrim before moving onto BGs. This either suggests to me an inactive/disorganized/noob mafia. In this respect Xelin and Iaaan come to mind, with Xelin being the stronger suspect. I still feel that Iaaan is being very much Iaaan, but if he is mafia bus driver he'll be ineffectual unless he gets his hands on some private information. Here's where I'm going to trust the counsel of our wise town leaders and vote for BM despite my doubts. I'm of the belief that he's consistently inconsistent with his reasoning, but I don't see any better analysis out there. On March 17 2010 14:22 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:54 citi.zen wrote:
Also, the "other DT" who happened to choose sidersprang, then did not go to L, whom he supposedly checked, but instead chose Incognito to reveal himself to. So connect the dots for me here, citizen - what is it that you're exactly trying to say? That there's still something fishy going on? Or are you going to make an actual accusation and lead with your votes? We don't have a better story to believe, so it just seems like you're kicking shit around without actually saying anything. On March 19 2010 08:35 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 08:28 L wrote:
Anyways, once night falls I'm going to explain what our strategy for upcoming lynches is.
For the last time, I kinda want to know who the vig is, because we need an extra hit for tonight. We're kinda about to head into a section where we carpet bomb people with certain shared characteristics, so we need all available KP, hence the double lynch. Maybe there is no vig? Considering we have 2DTs, yourself as Hatter, and (potentially) 2 Bus Drivers, it seems like quite a lot if we throw in another Medic...
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Fine...
+ Show Spoiler +I'm not doing this next game, no matter my role. This just curbs my willingness to post -_- ESPECIALLY when I know I'm green Begin with my quotes now.... On March 11 2010 11:19 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 01:58 Zona wrote:
I plan on ignoring BM for the entire game, his posts and PMs - and I suggest the town does the same, rather than wasting the first lynch.
If BM is mafia - keeping him alive will probably hurt the mafia a lot in the long run, so there's the benefit there. If BM is town - it's a waste of a lynch to get rid of him, as otherwise we could have gained more information somewhere else.
The day 1 lynch needs to be a natural vote, not based on factors external to this particular game, so that these votes later can be scrutinized for possible mafia activity. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 04:15 Versatile wrote:
one thing i've noticed in these games is that there's always someone/ multiple people calling for someone to be lynch because of said person's performance in another game.
each game is different, and while someone may just really be a dumbass, i really don't see the point of deciding who to lynch before we've even had elections based on their actions in another game.
let's lynch people playing stupidly and scummy in THIS game. BM Defenders must Die.... If BM is mafia, we kill Versatile and Zona....Agreed? On March 11 2010 12:45 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 07:17 Fulgrim wrote:
It isn't safe for normal mafia to run for office, so they won't do that, the main danger here is GF. (Being unfamiliar with the busdriver rules, a mafia aligned one could switch the DT check off the elected official maybe?) Regardless we want to avoid getting a GF into office. Right now we have JeeJee, L, and BC running for office, chances are one of them is going to be GF. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see some more from the candidates or if there are anymore people that announce their campaign. Mafia get to select GF AFTER the election. So if a normal mafia runs, they would just make that mafia member the GF if he wins or comes close to winning. On March 12 2010 02:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:FML DID NOT MEAN TO POST THAT RIGHT THERE Arghhhh Now another post to post in the fucking archives >< Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 14:03 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 14:00 L wrote:On March 11 2010 13:58 Incognito wrote:
Awesome. Another out of the blue vote for the Cobbler. Anybody care to explain? Anybody care to explain why these phantom voters like you/cobbler over me? You're getting a decent amount of love. You and I have been posting frequently enough. But BC seems to have just made one giant post and then not that much else since. One giant post that ran in circles and didn't truly say much iirc... Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 14:27 Vivi57 wrote:
oh and I think it'll be very obvious very quickly if he's trying to pull fake rolechecks I GOT BUS DRIVET'd -_- Seriously...That's the only argument the mayor/pardoner has to make if they say they used their ability (medic) and still died. Whomever the detective is, RC whoever the mayor/pardoner claims to have "protected." If they are DT, rc who ever they rc. p.s. Flamewheel, their shoulda been 3 bg's, or only one bus driver lol =( Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 14:49 johnnyspazz wrote:
as long as both of them aren't green or red, i think our town is bound to win! Mayor can be killed by night 2. Very easily. Not to mention one of the BG's could be mafia. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 15:32 Vivi57 wrote:On March 11 2010 14:32 L wrote:On March 11 2010 14:27 Vivi57 wrote:
oh and I think it'll be very obvious very quickly if he's trying to pull fake rolechecks So you're basically trying to claim DT for him without him actually claiming it. OK. I'm going to sleep, but this is pretty hilarious. No I *am* claiming dt for him you've claimed "not green" and expect to be mayor, don't really see much difference. Stop being retarded. Believing him that he is DT.... He just showtime'd you. And you'll be butt hurt by the end of the game. And think about it, WHY would he claim to you. Because you look townie? I does it for the Lulz. Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 18:01 Bill Murray wrote:is it just me or are L and BloodyC0bbler both claiming DT? I'd like to reference this post: " + Show Spoiler +there are most likely only 1 of each blue role, i would keep that in mind. 2 meds could perma protect someone in this game, so most likely only one. Dt's have unlimited rc's so most likely only 1. Hatter has 2 kp (with bombs) so most likely is only one hatter, or 1-2 vigi's as having both roles would have too high a KP (would be more than the mafia in one night). Possibly 1 vet, millers 1-2. " Do you want a Mafia mayor? Why are you all voting for BloodyC0bbler or L? We need to have neither of them in office, or at most one as pardoner, and figure out which of them is the real detective based upon SOMEONE ELSE roleclaiming through a hit or protection. We can PM one of them to check that person, and they only have a certain percentage of guessing it correctly if they are mafia. Given this turn of events, I feel it is necessary for Incognito and PREFERABLY someone else to be in office together. When I say someone else, I mean someone needs to step up to the plate and garner the town's votes. I don't trust either one of these guys until we can confirm them. I am more wary of a donkey in a lion's skin than the actual lion himself. in response to : + Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 12:40 Zona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:
On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there.
Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead.
Considering his sentence includes "the other DT"...it seems like he's claiming DT.
The thing is - we probably only have one DT.
It's pretty clear that hes outlining a scenario with two dt's not RCing. L will run for office in any game, and specifically said he had a fun role, that would more imply he got a KP role, or bus driver.
The example of the "other dt" or "second dt" has already been used by multiple people thus far. Really, L? I believe the last game got to your head. I like you, I'm sorry it happened that way, my bad. I was wrong. "Fun Role" = The Boss, Mafia Godfather! But BM, reread what you're quoting, and holy fuck. L did claim DT too. hahahahhahahahahahahahaha. BC and L claiming DT?! This is epic. Because we all know L would get the GF role if he was mafia, as would BC. Lololol. It's a guarantee now, even if one loses the election. But that's just fucking great if we got two DT's this game and they both just Role claimed. About the amounts in the game, remember tho BM, that's just a thought. That isn't concrete. Another suggestion had like 2 of almost every role that seemed just as plausibly, so stop arguing against voting them. Mayor's are EASILY killed this game. That's the easy part. AND AMAZING CATCH BM. AMAZING. and you're the only one who noticed that he not only claimed blue, but claimed DT...Do remember though, this is how L got redtooth in Incog's game cuz redtooth made a syntax error in a post and it was like he "admitted" he was mafia.... But regardless "the other dt can check me" is kind of a bold statement. I didn't notice L said that. And also, if a miller gets office, LULZ. Oh, and Vivi for Mafia aligned bus driver. That's my guess for this game. Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia. We can't afford medic protection on them. maybe bus driver....But we can't protect them. Protection is for the BG's... The town will be forced to play this without our "vets" that we love. GG, L, Incog, BC. If any of you live without being mayor (one of you most certainly will live through atleast one night), I shall be greatly surprised. Deadly format for cruelty, but face it everyone, we all must step up and go after the mafia. Even if they aren't here to help us. So, with that said, if the vets would like to post some ideas that we should follow to win with this format, please do! On March 12 2010 02:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 02:21 L wrote:
That however, relies on the ability of us to focus our only medic on the BGs, which means that roleclaimed non-office blues present us with protection problems; Unless we have a bus claim to a confirmed office member, we can't really protect both extra and intra office blues. This is why I didn't want people explicitly claiming, and that's why it didn't matter if I said people shouldn't run as green: the candidacies were already in and no one had claimed at that point, so we were ironclad.
If you guys think that my refusal to tell you what role I am is presents some sort of odd scumtell; you're retarded. You guys simply haven't been thinking about how to win. There's more to mafia than not have town members die; you need to develop a plan forward with the aim of winning otherwise you lose. This game has no clues, it has no list checks, it has very little kp on both teams. Its going to last for quite a while, so think ahead to days 3-4. Unlike in previous games wherein the game is basically over by then, that's simply not the case here. I personally have a plan that's almost assured to have us win. Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim.
That said, there's a potential mafia bus driver problem, but I can get around that if I'm elected by using our bus and a few pms. I'll explain further during the night, and I'll need a few people to trust me, but if everything works out the game's pretty much won for town. It ignores the Bus Driver of doom, occuring on the BGs. Using them against role check of mayor = stupid. Bus driving a BG, = Smart. Needs coordination though, but like I said, Vivi is the Bus Driver. =P The don Boss L? Bad idea for the "other dt." Don't PM him. We can't trust him. Well fuck it. Pm him. If you show up dead we kill L. Plain and simple. DO IT, DO IT!!!!! Seriously, I'll follow through with that revenge lynch even if the dt dies by random. 2/20 people and dt gets picked, FAIL. On March 12 2010 02:42 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 02:21 L wrote:
That however, relies on the ability of us to focus our only medic on the BGs, which means that roleclaimed non-office blues present us with protection problems; Unless we have a bus claim to a confirmed office member, we can't really protect both extra and intra office blues. This is why I didn't want people explicitly claiming, and that's why it didn't matter if I said people shouldn't run as green: the candidacies were already in and no one had claimed at that point, so we were ironclad.
If you guys think that my refusal to tell you what role I am is presents some sort of odd scumtell; you're retarded. You guys simply haven't been thinking about how to win. There's more to mafia than not have town members die; you need to develop a plan forward with the aim of winning otherwise you lose. This game has no clues, it has no list checks, it has very little kp on both teams. Its going to last for quite a while, so think ahead to days 3-4. Unlike in previous games wherein the game is basically over by then, that's simply not the case here. I personally have a plan that's almost assured to have us win. Once elected, I want a DT check thrown at me with a PM once they know my role. At that point, it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do from the DT's perspective and the town will have a relatively safe way to roleclaim.
That said, there's a potential mafia bus driver problem, but I can get around that if I'm elected by using our bus and a few pms. I'll explain further during the night, and I'll need a few people to trust me, but if everything works out the game's pretty much won for town. It ignores the Bus Driver of doom, occuring on the BGs. Using them against role check of mayor = stupid. Bus driving a BG, = Smart. Needs coordination though, but like I said, Vivi is the Bus Driver. =P Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 01:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? L "Admitting" he's blue, by scolding incog about running for mayor as green. His logic makes a little sense....we can only confirm greens on death....Riiiiight....Okay...So lets vote L... On March 11 2010 13:52 Vivi57 wrote:
citizen, I agree with L. In a game where we can have CONFIRMED blues in office, only the blues should be running. Yes, it sucks if the mafia manage to get the gf into office, but the power of having an unkillable blue is just too much to pass up on. Having a green run also dilutes the pro town votes towards mayor NO This IS NOT HOW THINGS WORK. Let's just give all of our power roles away?! Lulz! FTW. The don Boss L? Bad idea for the "other dt." Don't PM him. We can't trust him. Well fuck it. Pm him. If you show up dead we kill L. Plain and simple. DO IT, DO IT!!!!! Seriously, I'll follow through with that revenge lynch even if the dt dies by random. 2/20 people and dt gets picked, FAIL. On March 13 2010 01:39 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Sorry guys, for the inactive after going through the whole thread yesterday. Had a mid term, I'm on spring break starting Monday, so I can be extremely active then. (Probably will be.) Girlfriend just broke up with me too, and now I gotta go work 12 to 8. Yea...
Life is a beach.
So don't kill BM L. Don't DO IT! On March 13 2010 15:47 ~OpZ~ wrote:PM from JeeJee. I didn't reply the first time. The only reply I did was the top one asking him if he's aware he's being suspicious as fuck and he's retarded if he's mafia. I dunno. Sorry if you're not mafia JeeJee, but god damn, I figure if you are you pming me this will get me killed anyway. + Show Spoiler +To: JeeJee [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Fw: hey
Date: 3/13/10 15:28
Is it not extremely suspicious mass switching votes before the right at the end? I could just change it now. I really don't get why wait right to the end. This is suspect as fuck JeeJee....But you pming me is kind of retarded if you are mafia....
lol...I dunno...L looks suspect as shit. No lie there.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
hey
i am really not trusting L at the moment, and am anxious to see him not get into office. at the moment it looks like i will be switching to incog to push L out (and I trust incog), since c0bbs looks to be in for a role barring some major changes in the votes
do you agree with my thinking on L?
what do you think about switching votes towards the end (so that if mafia still want to push L in, they'd have to make it pretty obvious instead of gradually shifting over a 10-12 hour timespan)
what do you think?
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
i want you to switch votes with me from L to c0bbles at the last minute if it looks like L is going to get in
ok? On March 13 2010 15:55 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 13:45 Bill Murray wrote:
So I suspiciously voted for the person I wanted to vote for originally? you all make me laugh.
The timing of it was off because I wasn't even thinking "you know, you can totally screw this guy who wanted to lynch you" until JeeJee brought it to my attention.
Tough shit, L. Sorry you didn't get to lynch me. If BC does, that's his decision. I'm going to like him whether he does it or not. If he does lynch me, though, I guaran-fucking-tee you I'm going to be flipping blue, green, or black. Anyone want to step up and put their head on the line for Day 2 if I don't flip red?
I can't trust anyone, because I'm the only person I know is a townie. I have noone. I'll put myself up. Let's go to hell and back together BM! On March 13 2010 15:56 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 15:33 Zona wrote:
I would like to call out L, nemY, and Bloodycobbler for voting for d3_crescentia.
Not being allowed to abstain in votes is a huge plus for town members as votes reveal information that can be used to evaluate a player later in the game.
Yet the three of you subvert that by essentially abstaining by voting for someone who has basically not participated in the game so far. Explain yourselves - why can you not commit to helping the town by leaving a paper trail of your opinion? Well L and BC obviously weren't going to vote for each other....Lol.... Nemy is another story, but L and BC weren't gonna vote, L, Incog, or BC. That would just give their opponent more votes....common sense? On March 13 2010 17:22 ~OpZ~ wrote:
*boards up house, pulls out sniper broom (long going joke with a buddy, broom/papertowel roll)* THE MAFIA WILL NEVER GET ME.
Oh, and detectives, BRING IT OOOOOOOON!! You can get some too!?
-_-
My one release after another Terrible fucking day.
p.s. if I stop posting all of a sudden flamewheel and don't vote, please don't ban me from mafia, I might end up being arrested ;>>
Ex and her ex got their comeuppance, but I think I may of went a lil too far. And I don't think I'm done. Very distraught. Sorry fella's, I'll stop writing books bout my personal life.
=(
But I should be getting DT checked, so I'll enjoy the PMs.
|
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2010 07:39 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 07:17 Fulgrim wrote:
It isn't safe for normal mafia to run for office, so they won't do that, the main danger here is GF. (Being unfamiliar with the busdriver rules, a mafia aligned one could switch the DT check off the elected official maybe?) Regardless we want to avoid getting a GF into office. Right now we have JeeJee, L, and BC running for office, chances are one of them is going to be GF. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see some more from the candidates or if there are anymore people that announce their campaign. I highly doubt that the mafia is already organized to the point where they got a guy running for office right now. It usually takes them a bit to decide what their plan is and who's going to run. I'd watch and see who comes to run later in the day. On March 11 2010 11:48 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:26 L wrote:On March 11 2010 10:37 madnessman wrote:On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? He's trying to make you look bad, by saying that someone who accuses others of being the Godfather is usually the Godfather himself, since said person is just trying to divert suspicion so the town won't realize that it is HE who is GF.. Which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, because when the accused GF gets lynch and turns over town-aligned, won't the accuser just look like someone who cried wolf? No,its more that players with a certain role are more likely to ask questions about that role or how they fit into the game than other players. A player who makes a huge post about a DT plan then goes afk looks VERY much like a DT because he's doing 2 things DTs do: thinks about himself and his role as a DT, then he tries to not die. Greens generally run inactive in our games unless they're veteran players trying to run pro-town moves, or bad players trying to stave off the boredom of being plain. Greens also try to trap people in pms, but that doesn't really work well. By contrast someone like the vet will post excessively pro-town things in a bid to get killed; Ver generally doesn't talk very much in an effort to stay alive for a few days; Last game as Vet he was active far earlier. Some other vets will attempt to claim medic or DT in an effort to get hit. This doesn't work well in our games because we shoot liars (sometimes). I'm also running on the idea that there's going to be a good player who's GF; I haven't really seen GF given to a shitty player because they generally can't command enough respect within the mafia to have people agree. if that's the case, there are 5 main 'candidates' for GF in the game. Me, Malongo, Incog, Cobbler and Foolishness. I know I'm not, so for my personal calculations, there's a 25% chance one of these 5 is the GF. Additionally, guessing on how teams balance, given mafia's low kp and the structure of the game, I'd say that 2-3 of these players are probably mafia. Incog and Cobbler have decided to run. That's perfectly fine and entirely expected of them. If the mafia team running is most likely to only send a GF candidate after the early talk of checks, then one of them is probably legit, and the other is probably not. Additionally, that also means that foolishness and Malongo are probably 1-1 on the legit/not ratio too. But I'm not confirmed to people who aren't me (yet) so the actual numbers are a bit off. But that's all conjecture, and frankly it won't matter because by night 2 we'll have all of them checked and the 1-2 goons in that group will likely be caught and the rest will join the town circle. Never thought I'd see you put me in a "top candidates" list. I feel like my life has meaning now! Someone mentioned (I think Malongo) that it's better to vote for a person who's constantly active than a person who makes his/her candidacy and then is fairly inactive for the rest of the game. On the contrary though, I would think that a mafia would be more desperate to get into office and therefore would be more active and posting more in order to try to get the town's favor. In the other game, l10f made a half assed candidacy for mayor and then disappeared (cause he was the DT). I think it makes more sense for a blue role to run for office, and then just disappear if nobody seems to be voting for him/her as they don't want to attract attention. On March 13 2010 11:05 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote:
DT Check List:
CynanMachae
~OpZ~
Sidesprang
Medic Prot List:
Incognito
Bodyguard A
Bodyguard B Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen? Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town. It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless. It's called creating order for the town, and establishing some sort of plan. Bodyguards are going to be made public, and there's a good chance they're going to be under fire at some point this game. I'll give you that maybe his DT check list is opinionated, but honestly who else are you going to protect? Look at this way, now, maybe I'm biased from lack of experience but guess what? MEDICS SUCK BALLS! Have you ever seen a medic perform outstandingly during a game? I sure have never seen a medic block more than one hit during a game, and usually those hits are very obvious (like Scamp protecting jspazz in the other game). Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town. Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles. On March 13 2010 11:27 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 11:09 L wrote:
You assume the town doesn't have order.
Mistake. If you're talking to me I never said that, but I can see how it could be implied. At any rate, he's the one saying "Lets just let medics/DT's do want they want". There's definitely something wrong with that. On March 13 2010 12:04 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 11:28 Zona wrote:On March 13 2010 11:05 Foolishness wrote:On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote:
DT Check List:
CynanMachae
~OpZ~
Sidesprang
Medic Prot List:
Incognito
Bodyguard A
Bodyguard B Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen? Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town. It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless. It's called creating order for the town, and establishing some sort of plan. Bodyguards are going to be made public, and there's a good chance they're going to be under fire at some point this game. I'll give you that maybe his DT check list is opinionated, but honestly who else are you going to protect? Look at this way, now, maybe I'm biased from lack of experience but guess what? MEDICS SUCK BALLS! Have you ever seen a medic perform outstandingly during a game? I sure have never seen a medic block more than one hit during a game, and usually those hits are very obvious (like Scamp protecting jspazz in the other game). Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town. Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles. Have you thought through the implications of the mafia bus driver role? This is no ordinary mafia game where a public DT/medic list *might* be beneficial. Alone, and without public DT/medic lists, the mafia bus driver (who does not begin knowing his/her mafia teammates) cannot really use the power effectively. The power cannot be used to protect the mafia or whitewash for them, since the bus drvier doesn't know who they are. And if the bus driver has no idea who the DTs will check, doing a random switch has a very low chance of producing useful results for the mafia. With a public DT list, however, the bus driver could elect to switch someone in that DT list with anyone else. Remember the bus driver doesn't even need for this 'someone else' to be mafia for this to be effective - even if a blue is switched with a green, or a green with a blue, then the DT can be discredited. Or, if people are considering the chance that the DT's check was bus driven, then doubt is thrown on the result of the check, making it a lot less useful. A DT choosing his or her own check instead can hopefully find a fellow town member, and then can form a private, trusted discussion group where all participants know that every idea is free from mafia interference, even if they aren't necessarily correct at first. I do agree that on the whole, the medic power isn't that effective. But once again, having a public medic list that the medics actually follow just allow the mafia to avoid wasting their hits and slowing down their killing of the town, when wasted hits give the town more days, more time to figure out who the mafia are. The medic becomes a ton more powerful if he/she survives to late game because there are a lot fewer people for the mafia and medic to choose from, and thus the chances of their choices coinciding are a lot higher. Addendum: + Show Spoiler +I can see how a DT list and medic list can be useful for a certain style of play, in which the town rallies around a FEW vocal, strong, central players, who are entirely confirmed by the DT and then subsequently protected by medics so that they can be the town leaders, recipients and proclaimers of DT checks, and the like, but the bus driver weakens this considerably. First, public DT-confirmation is a lot more shakey because of the bus driver. And like I mentioned in my main post, publicly declaring a DT check list is just inviting the bus driver to switch and muddle things up.
Also, the style of play which involves a few central, strong, DT-confirmed + medic-protected individuals leading the town is not the only road to success. Town members forming private discussion groups with people they trust, as well as posting their thoughts in public can root out mafia and win that way, and this style is far less vulnerable to mafia manipulation, as there aren't just a few individuals who are dominating the town's decisions. The town's power is in its mass, why not play in a style that emphasizes that? In any case, the bus driver makes the other route far less attractive. The point of the matter is that it's better to have the blue roles organized and under some general plan of action, and not letting them "choose for themselves" as you said. Mafia bus driver is at a severe disadvantage because they do not know the rest of the mafia team. Even say that the DT was going to inspect someone on the list of 3 people Incog gave. If the bus driver chooses to mess it up, they can only mess up ONE of the 3 people. Still a good chance DT's check is going to go through. Also they could accidentally switch with a mafia member, letting the DT check a mafia by mistake. Heck the bus driver could switch a mafia hit onto one of their own. With the medic scenario, assuming most people agreed with whatever medic list is given, do you think the mafia is going to target anyone on that list? Probably not unless they're desperate. Bus driver switch is only going to work if they get lucky with mafia hits. Even still bus driver could end up switching them, but that would require mafia hitting whatever other person they switched. Still, having medics protect someone random on their own accord is probably going to be no different. Better to be organized and have a plan than acting on own volition. What I'm trying to say his, there's too many what if scenario's, and too many possibilities. Without mafia knowing the bus driver, the bus driver is useless, and could end up causing more harm to mafia than good. There's not really a point in worrying about the bus driver at this point. On March 13 2010 12:10 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:02 Zona wrote:I'll further extend my thoughts on DT strategies, since you seem to be expressing disdain for the ideas of DTs acting on their own. First, if the DT can get access to a protected mouthpiece to the town (by becoming a protected elected official, or perhaps somehow confirming that a certain elected official is town and proving him/herself to that elected official and then communicating through them), then it's smooth sailing. The DT uses his or her rolechecks to find mafia, then proclaims the finds to the town through the mouthpiece, allowing the town to lynch them. The DT's power contributes a ton to the town's success. However, if the DT cannot secure such a mouthpiece, it's better early on to find fellow town members, not mafia. If the DT finds a mafia member early in the game in this kind of situation, it often won't be easy to convince the rest of the town to lynch the target without revealing themselves. And revealing leaves the DT a prime target to be nightkilled: if a game is reasonably balanced, the mafia will be able to kill the revealed DT. However, if the DT finds fellow town members, they can form a private, trusted discussion circle which can become even more useful once the DT starts hunting mafia. Then the circle can work together to lynch the mafia - both in votes and in public arguments, rather than the DT working alone trying to convince the town. If a DT chooses who to check privately, the chances of his or her results being inaccurate are low. The godfather chance is low, and the bus driver chance is low, since the bus driver has no information. If the targets that the DT checks are public however, it's so much easier for the bus driver to make a difference. So yes, if the DT cannot get elected, I'm advocating that the DT chooses who the check on his or her own (and check for potential TOWN members, not mafia, at least in the early game). As the godfather can be chosen AFTER the election in this game, the mafia actually as a great chance of faking a 'town' DT result on an elected official so the 'confirm a protect mouthpiece' avenue is also not ideal. On March 13 2010 11:05 Foolishness wrote:Letting the DT's and medics roam free is certainly not beneficial to the town.
Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord? Problem with forming some sort of town circle eh? Don't like the town being organized? Oh! Perhaps you've adopted the Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles. You are using very skewed language here, rather than reasoning. "Letting the DT's and medics roam free" - as if they were wild animals or something? "Why do you want the medic/DT's acting on their own accord?" - as if town members thinking on their own is a bad thing? "Chezinu style of play where you just try to cause some chaos for shits and giggles." - this is a thoroughly unfair comparison. I am arguing against someone's plan and have laid out my reasons on why their proposals were flawed. I don't see how it's even remotely comparable to some other player's history of "cause some chaos for shits and giggles." And how often has those private town circles the DT formed work out in favor of the town? Not very many by my watch (but I am rather new so I could be mistaken). Chezinu formed a huge town circle the other game, and that didn't do anything. Yeah, you can blame Chezinu for being stupid if you want but that doesn't defeat my point. Ver tried to form a circle early in the game and nearly everyone in his circle was dead before long. These things don't work out, you're very prone to getting randomly hit by the mafia, and unless you get the backing of some town leader your information is going to be useless (or by that time it will be too late in the game). Better organized than not. On March 13 2010 12:42 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 12:38 citi.zen wrote:
Thank you Zona. Finally someone else gets it: the dt is huge in this game, and needs to play ultra safe. The medic is another story, if there is a mafia driver (also huge, as 8've been saying). Don't trust... anyone right now, it's just day 1 (a looooong one, to be sure). Madnessman worries me. Foolishness too. Plus those trying to confuse dts. Also, I continue to be amazed at how articulate bill is this game. Night&day change, how can this be?? I'm not worried. You changed your vote 3 times during the day. I'm sure you'll have a different opinion tomorrow, of which I will be ready to do a good ol' nobody cares! On March 14 2010 09:19 Foolishness wrote:Someone called? NOBODY CARES! NOBODY CARES!...wait, you're not in this game... Of all the voting that took place, madnessman had the most fishy outcome. He changed his vote 3 times I think (including the time after day ended), making citi.zen's voting pattern look normal. He also tried to change at the last minute to offset the amount of votes going on Incognito. Definitely something strange going on there. While the swing on Incog is fishy as well, JeeJee turning up innocent probably indicates this was not mafia related. On March 14 2010 09:23 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 09:21 L wrote:On March 14 2010 09:19 Foolishness wrote:Someone called? On March 14 2010 08:58 Abenson wrote:
This game sure seems slow... NOBODY CARES! On March 14 2010 09:09 Ace wrote:
whew, it sure is getting hot in here! NOBODY CARES!...wait, you're not in this game... Of all the voting that took place, madnessman had the most fishy outcome. He changed his vote 3 times I think (including the time after day ended), making citi.zen's voting pattern look normal. He also tried to change at the last minute to offset the amount of votes going on Incognito. Definitely something strange going on there. While the swing on Incog is fishy as well, JeeJee turning up innocent probably indicates this was not mafia related. Oh, you noticed citi.zen's voting pattern too. Good show. That would be the reason for my suspicion of him, as exemplified in the last two pages. Yeah I called him out on it early in the night (it's in the archives if you care to look). Considering how active he's been the "I'm a confused townie" defense is not very convincing at all. On March 15 2010 09:38 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 08:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Random list of suspects These are people that currently seem fishy in some sense that make them stand out in my mind. I will attempt to do my best at giving a reason why. To start with Xelin + Show Spoiler +He has been “active” thus far. As in he ran in the election, although it went no where. On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote:
I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate.
I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played.
DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on.
Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me).
Elect XeliN ! Keep that bolded statement in mind. He basically wanted to be checked to co-ordinate with blues. Cool idea right? However, it puts him the center of the town circle. Seems like something anyone would want. Seems kinda legit until you On March 15 2010 07:26 Abenson wrote:
From what I've seen so far, I think that:
I think that the most important part is to have the dt's post their results. I know that this is risky, but I think it's extremely important that we get information from the dt's. Note: this abenson quote is because of the following On March 13 2010 02:52 XeliN wrote:
Also L if you get voted in don't lynch Bill it would be a waste, going over the thread I would lynch Abenson
On March 12 2010 07:17 Abenson wrote:
Declaration:
I think it's really hard for me to post anything BUT 1-liners unless I have something important or I am trying to argue a point or protecting myself. Therefore from now on I will simply post 1-liners in order to state my mood/thoughts on the current matter
P.S. I'm kinda lazy to update my post in the archives
Town or Mafia this is just plain unhelpful, also I'd like to restate something I wrote way long ago that no-one really responded to. We need to put in place and agreed rule whereby people who are exceptionally inacitve or do not contribute are lynched. Forces the Mafia to post and forces town to try to participate, win win. thoughts?
He specifically wanted to lynch abenson if elected. However, (keep in mind the abenson quote I posted above), he then agrees with him found On March 15 2010 08:08 XeliN wrote:
well if BC was telling the truth about his role there is no reason he should not disclose who he has checked, instead of writing their specific role he could simply say "checked X and result was either Red//Townie" posting blue roles would be bad because it gives the mafia information but I can't see how it would not be beneficial to share the results in that way. I don't think it's right that he can get away with claiming DT and not provide any evidence that he is, seems dodgy to me. This is what confuses me. He actively wanted to kill abenson, yet agrees that all DT info should be handed over to town. In this case he does want me to name who I’ve cleared, but not their role (ok, seems kinda cool I guess) except of how bad an Idea it is. Lets spell it out simply. If someone is red, they get called out immediately, but as soon as you give a list of “cleared” players, especially this early, the mafia just has to continiously shoot them to prevent a town circle of any kind forming. So in short, my main reason for suspecting him, he wants information/be in control of information that as town, he should know how it should be used, while at the same time agreeing with the person he wanted to kill if he had been elected. Not a lot to go on really at the moment, but enough to keep me looking at him. Also as a minor note, he hasn’t kept his archives up to date at the time of this post, something minor but worth noting for reference later. D3_cresentia + Show Spoiler +
This is based on my experience when I was a host and he played in my game. He was very active in my game as a town member, very active, and he also got elected. However, this game he has been fairly inactive and the posts he has made have generally been few and not very contributing.
Simply put, I expect more out of him as his performance the last time I watched him play town was much better than it is now.
Abenson + Show Spoiler +
The kid is posting nothing helpful, and is playing the exact same he was in the game with two mafia families that the kid was red in. Simply put, he is either a terrible player who can’t play without appearing scummy, or is mafia.
~opz~ + Show Spoiler +Kid is fishy as fuck. I don’t want to quote his posts in the archive thread, but just go read the ones he has, seriously. He starts off moderately helpful, seems like a good start to the game. Proceeds to then try and toss L under the bus, not very serious but still there. Now, the important part of a post to bring up On March 12 2010 02:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Oh, and Vivi for Mafia aligned bus driver. That's my guess for this game.
Hide nested quote -
On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia.
We can't afford medic protection on them. maybe bus driver....But we can't protect them. Protection is for the BG's...
The town will be forced to play this without our "vets" that we love.
GG, L, Incog, BC. If any of you live without being mayor (one of you most certainly will live through atleast one night), I shall be greatly surprised.
Deadly format for cruelty, but face it everyone, we all must step up and go after the mafia. Even if they aren't here to help us. So, with that said, if the vets would like to post some ideas that we should follow to win with this format, please do!
First, he pins Vivi as the bus driver. He specifies mafia bus driver, however, concentrate on the role itself. I point this out for two reasons. The only reason someone would off vivi so early (the guy is an odd day 1 choice) is they figured I was giving him information, or he was blue. This FoS pointed at vivi seems odd given the game play. Next, he mentions that with this format, the town will most likely be forced to play without the “vet” players. And if any of us live day 1 he would be surprised. Keep in mind this line of thought. By L/myself/incog not dying (in this case more L as incog and I have bg protection) he can now come out and say the only way L wouldn’t take a hit is if he was mafia, or the like. The post feels like a placeholder to allow him to instantly jump on the three of us should any of us not die right away. After that post he again accuses vivi of being the bus driver, as well as L of being gf. This is the second time putting FoS on vivi (confirmed green via death), and now L. Both of these have not been followed by any sort of reasoning to it, but just seem to be “contributing” posts. He then has some random posts, one of which states that he should be getting checked by a DT. Why would he think this, and if he is green as he says he is, why would he want to be checked so quickly while in the same post claiming he will be afk potentially for a few days, or for a lot longer as he might get arrested. He could really have had a shitty life situation (possible), however, the fact he was claiming he was getting a DT to check him seems weird if he was vanishing for days, he wouldn’t want to be checked if he wasn’t going to be able to play for awhile. This is a general starter. There are a few others I have my eye on, but as I don’t have anything other than a general feeling without grounds, better not off trying to go anywhere with it. Yo, I got a few questions for you. I think some answers will help clear up a lot of confusion with the town right now, cause right now, the town's a shitstorm of inactivity. 1) Who do you want to lynch today? You got elected as mayor, you claimed (through one person or another) that you are the DT. I'm assuming you did not find a mafia with your check or you would have said so right? It's impossible for me to know by what you're doing right now. You voted for Abenson, you put Abenson in your "random list of suspects" (more on that later). So do you want the town to lynch Abenson? I have no idea what you think of things right now. Maybe you really want to lynch L cause you think he's scum? You should probably say something. This brings me to the next point: 2) Why are you being a crappy leader? You accepted your role as mayor, you even claimed (you said you were going to claim if vivi had not done for you) so you could get into office. There, it's done. Now do something about it! You haven't done much of anything since being elected, and hey if I do say so myself, you weren't doing much before elections either. Right now, L is doing a better job of being mayor than you are, he's actively voicing his opinions and arguing with people. That's good for town. You sitting in your mayoral chair whacking off waiting until your next DT check isn't helping the town. This is assuming you even are the DT, and hey guess what it looks kinda sketchy now. There is a point that needs to be addressed to the town. L claims he has a circle of 3(?) blues, BC said he claimed to people and has hinted he knows blues, Incog claims he knows a bunch of blues as well. There are more blues going around than there are probably in the game. If you all were really blue, why haven't you coordinated together? If all of you were legit, I'd expect this game to be near over for the mafia because you probably know over half the town is innocent. Why isn't this happening? Why are none of you telling us who to lynch (exception of L here). Somebody's full of shit with you three. At least one of you is lying about the information you know. Based on what you three have individually said, this game should be nearly over. Why are we still playing and why are we guessing on who to lynch today? BC I'd like to remind you of the game past (forgot which one off the top of my head) where you got elected mayor and couldn't control your town and Pyrry led the mafia to victory. That game you made it seem like you knew a bunch of blue roles, knew exactly what you were doing to lead the town to victory, and you didn't. I had to take over as pseudo mayor that game because everyone realized you had no information. Right now I'm starting to feel the same way (although I'll give you it's still early in the game). But if blues start dying and we fail to lynch mafia, I hope you're willing to be held accountable. Your mayor of this town. Do something about it. On March 15 2010 09:42 Foolishness wrote:
Not to mention, your "random list of suspects" and your "general feeling without grounds" is total bullshit. What does that even me? "Oh hey guys this is who I think we should lynch...but I actually have no idea or any information so just do whatever I'm sure it'll work out". That's honestly what it sounded like when I read your post.
And what do you mean "better not off trying to go anywhere with it"? If you honestly cared about the town winning, you would try to go somewhere with it. You would try to make these people speak up and defend themselves. You would stop these people from being inactive. Your post basically said "I think these people are suspicious....but it's cool if they don't say anything about it". On March 15 2010 10:35 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 10:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 15 2010 09:38 Foolishness wrote:On March 15 2010 08:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Random list of suspects These are people that currently seem fishy in some sense that make them stand out in my mind. I will attempt to do my best at giving a reason why. To start with Xelin + Show Spoiler +He has been “active” thus far. As in he ran in the election, although it went no where. On March 11 2010 07:30 XeliN wrote:
I'm going to put myself forward for office, wasn't going to as I have an essay due tomorrow and didnt expect to be able to pay attention to this but seems like I'm going to be able to due to my laziness//need to procrastinate.
I think I am good at analysing peoples allignment from their posts, and is something that I've gotten better at the more games I've played.
DT's being able to rolecheck elected also means that I could be trusted early on and co-ordinate with blues to get us a decisive win early on.
Also i'd quite like to play an elected position simply because I have not had the chance before and it would make the game more exciting (for me).
Elect XeliN ! Keep that bolded statement in mind. He basically wanted to be checked to co-ordinate with blues. Cool idea right? However, it puts him the center of the town circle. Seems like something anyone would want. Seems kinda legit until you On March 15 2010 07:26 Abenson wrote:
From what I've seen so far, I think that:
I think that the most important part is to have the dt's post their results. I know that this is risky, but I think it's extremely important that we get information from the dt's. Note: this abenson quote is because of the following On March 13 2010 02:52 XeliN wrote:
Also L if you get voted in don't lynch Bill it would be a waste, going over the thread I would lynch Abenson
On March 12 2010 07:17 Abenson wrote:
Declaration:
I think it's really hard for me to post anything BUT 1-liners unless I have something important or I am trying to argue a point or protecting myself. Therefore from now on I will simply post 1-liners in order to state my mood/thoughts on the current matter
P.S. I'm kinda lazy to update my post in the archives
Town or Mafia this is just plain unhelpful, also I'd like to restate something I wrote way long ago that no-one really responded to. We need to put in place and agreed rule whereby people who are exceptionally inacitve or do not contribute are lynched. Forces the Mafia to post and forces town to try to participate, win win. thoughts?
He specifically wanted to lynch abenson if elected. However, (keep in mind the abenson quote I posted above), he then agrees with him found On March 15 2010 08:08 XeliN wrote:
well if BC was telling the truth about his role there is no reason he should not disclose who he has checked, instead of writing their specific role he could simply say "checked X and result was either Red//Townie" posting blue roles would be bad because it gives the mafia information but I can't see how it would not be beneficial to share the results in that way. I don't think it's right that he can get away with claiming DT and not provide any evidence that he is, seems dodgy to me. This is what confuses me. He actively wanted to kill abenson, yet agrees that all DT info should be handed over to town. In this case he does want me to name who I’ve cleared, but not their role (ok, seems kinda cool I guess) except of how bad an Idea it is. Lets spell it out simply. If someone is red, they get called out immediately, but as soon as you give a list of “cleared” players, especially this early, the mafia just has to continiously shoot them to prevent a town circle of any kind forming. So in short, my main reason for suspecting him, he wants information/be in control of information that as town, he should know how it should be used, while at the same time agreeing with the person he wanted to kill if he had been elected. Not a lot to go on really at the moment, but enough to keep me looking at him. Also as a minor note, he hasn’t kept his archives up to date at the time of this post, something minor but worth noting for reference later. D3_cresentia + Show Spoiler +
This is based on my experience when I was a host and he played in my game. He was very active in my game as a town member, very active, and he also got elected. However, this game he has been fairly inactive and the posts he has made have generally been few and not very contributing.
Simply put, I expect more out of him as his performance the last time I watched him play town was much better than it is now.
Abenson + Show Spoiler +
The kid is posting nothing helpful, and is playing the exact same he was in the game with two mafia families that the kid was red in. Simply put, he is either a terrible player who can’t play without appearing scummy, or is mafia.
~opz~ + Show Spoiler +Kid is fishy as fuck. I don’t want to quote his posts in the archive thread, but just go read the ones he has, seriously. He starts off moderately helpful, seems like a good start to the game. Proceeds to then try and toss L under the bus, not very serious but still there. Now, the important part of a post to bring up On March 12 2010 02:44 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Oh, and Vivi for Mafia aligned bus driver. That's my guess for this game.
Hide nested quote -
On March 12 2010 00:41 XeliN wrote:
If Bill gets a vote and I end up with none I'm going to have to invest in some razor blades.
Out of all the candidates so far, apart from me cos I already know I'm town, Incognito seems to be the strongest candidate.
That said if BC//L are legitimately claiming blue roles and they do not get into office then they may end up being prime targets for the Mafia to hit so I would suggest medic protection on them might not be a bad thing until the DT's can verify, although I wouldn't put it past them to claim that just to try get into office whether town or mafia.
We can't afford medic protection on them. maybe bus driver....But we can't protect them. Protection is for the BG's...
The town will be forced to play this without our "vets" that we love.
GG, L, Incog, BC. If any of you live without being mayor (one of you most certainly will live through atleast one night), I shall be greatly surprised.
Deadly format for cruelty, but face it everyone, we all must step up and go after the mafia. Even if they aren't here to help us. So, with that said, if the vets would like to post some ideas that we should follow to win with this format, please do!
First, he pins Vivi as the bus driver. He specifies mafia bus driver, however, concentrate on the role itself. I point this out for two reasons. The only reason someone would off vivi so early (the guy is an odd day 1 choice) is they figured I was giving him information, or he was blue. This FoS pointed at vivi seems odd given the game play. Next, he mentions that with this format, the town will most likely be forced to play without the “vet” players. And if any of us live day 1 he would be surprised. Keep in mind this line of thought. By L/myself/incog not dying (in this case more L as incog and I have bg protection) he can now come out and say the only way L wouldn’t take a hit is if he was mafia, or the like. The post feels like a placeholder to allow him to instantly jump on the three of us should any of us not die right away. After that post he again accuses vivi of being the bus driver, as well as L of being gf. This is the second time putting FoS on vivi (confirmed green via death), and now L. Both of these have not been followed by any sort of reasoning to it, but just seem to be “contributing” posts. He then has some random posts, one of which states that he should be getting checked by a DT. Why would he think this, and if he is green as he says he is, why would he want to be checked so quickly while in the same post claiming he will be afk potentially for a few days, or for a lot longer as he might get arrested. He could really have had a shitty life situation (possible), however, the fact he was claiming he was getting a DT to check him seems weird if he was vanishing for days, he wouldn’t want to be checked if he wasn’t going to be able to play for awhile. This is a general starter. There are a few others I have my eye on, but as I don’t have anything other than a general feeling without grounds, better not off trying to go anywhere with it. Yo, I got a few questions for you. I think some answers will help clear up a lot of confusion with the town right now, cause right now, the town's a shitstorm of inactivity. 1) Who do you want to lynch today? You got elected as mayor, you claimed (through one person or another) that you are the DT. I'm assuming you did not find a mafia with your check or you would have said so right? It's impossible for me to know by what you're doing right now. You voted for Abenson, you put Abenson in your "random list of suspects" (more on that later). So do you want the town to lynch Abenson? I have no idea what you think of things right now. Maybe you really want to lynch L cause you think he's scum? You should probably say something. This brings me to the next point: 2) Why are you being a crappy leader? You accepted your role as mayor, you even claimed (you said you were going to claim if vivi had not done for you) so you could get into office. There, it's done. Now do something about it! You haven't done much of anything since being elected, and hey if I do say so myself, you weren't doing much before elections either. Right now, L is doing a better job of being mayor than you are, he's actively voicing his opinions and arguing with people. That's good for town. You sitting in your mayoral chair whacking off waiting until your next DT check isn't helping the town. This is assuming you even are the DT, and hey guess what it looks kinda sketchy now. There is a point that needs to be addressed to the town. L claims he has a circle of 3(?) blues, BC said he claimed to people and has hinted he knows blues, Incog claims he knows a bunch of blues as well. There are more blues going around than there are probably in the game. If you all were really blue, why haven't you coordinated together? If all of you were legit, I'd expect this game to be near over for the mafia because you probably know over half the town is innocent. Why isn't this happening? Why are none of you telling us who to lynch (exception of L here). Somebody's full of shit with you three. At least one of you is lying about the information you know. Based on what you three have individually said, this game should be nearly over. Why are we still playing and why are we guessing on who to lynch today? BC I'd like to remind you of the game past (forgot which one off the top of my head) where you got elected mayor and couldn't control your town and Pyrry led the mafia to victory. That game you made it seem like you knew a bunch of blue roles, knew exactly what you were doing to lead the town to victory, and you didn't. I had to take over as pseudo mayor that game because everyone realized you had no information. Right now I'm starting to feel the same way (although I'll give you it's still early in the game). But if blues start dying and we fail to lynch mafia, I hope you're willing to be held accountable. Your mayor of this town. Do something about it. Finally you come out and post. Stop hiding away from the world so much. A) I am currently on a tossup between abenson and ~opz~. My current vote was placed purely in the off chance shit happened and I was away from my computer for the entire vote duration. Unlikely, but required regardless. As for L, he seems town sided, but I believe another day + a check on him will clear that up. B) I am doing very similar job that I do in every game. I garner info then post with it. You mention L is doing a better job, but most of the posts were defending my own lynch target, followed by him wanting BM to die. I gave my reason on the lynch kill, and as I haven't yet made up my own mind on who I want dead, its safer to not push at someone yet? My job this game is to clear innocents and narrow down the red. Any information from this that won't fuck the town over by handing a list of people to mafia will be handed to the town, simple as that. Just as if you were about to lynch someone I've cleared, I would stop it there. As for the game in question that you are referring to. Keep in mind that the mafia convinced 2 people to stack votes on me to off me, and that the mafia who screwed the entire town over, was someone I had been advocating to kill off from almost day 1. You stepping up to be pseudo mayor wasn't even because I wasn't trying, it was because due to circumstances involving L's death combined with one failed analysis on a player led to me discrediting myself. On March 15 2010 09:42 Foolishness wrote:
Not to mention, your "random list of suspects" and your "general feeling without grounds" is total bullshit. What does that even me? "Oh hey guys this is who I think we should lynch...but I actually have no idea or any information so just do whatever I'm sure it'll work out". That's honestly what it sounded like when I read your post.
And what do you mean "better not off trying to go anywhere with it"? If you honestly cared about the town winning, you would try to go somewhere with it. You would try to make these people speak up and defend themselves. You would stop these people from being inactive. Your post basically said "I think these people are suspicious....but it's cool if they don't say anything about it". Intuition isn't something you can just explain. Or I would just say x seems mafia because I sense he is, believe in the power. As I have stated earlier in this thread, the DT's job is to build the list of confirmed townies + find red. We all agreed the best spot for a DT was in an elected position. So I am playing exactly as I said I would. If you don't like it, well you knew exactly what you were getting based on my opinions of how the DT should play before I claimed. On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies. first half of my candidacy post. As I feel confident on lynch targets, or as I find reds via checks, the more Centered I will be. However, as the DT, if I start randomly forcing lynches on people who flip green, I'll be offed. I'm glad you responded. The reason being is because you did not seem to have a lot of confidence with your accusation post up there. Like you are ducking behind a shield in case you are wrong. You as the mayor not having a lot of confidence in your thoughts/accusations puts me as the town in a really awkward situation in that I have no idea what to think of you anymore. You said it yourself in that previous game you discredited yourself. I don't want a repeat of that (even though the circumstances were different). You failed to comment on a key point of my post. How many blues do you actually know or are in contact with? Yeah I know you don't want to answer that publicly and I can understand that but something is not right at the moment. You, L, and Incog all seem to say you each know a bunch of blues (and L even directly reported it in one of his posts). Let's outline the possibilities: 1) All three of BC, L, Incog are blue/green and are legit in their posting- If this was true then why is there no coordination among you guys? This would also mean you guys know that nearly half the town is innocent (unless you all know the exact same blue roles, which is incredibly unlikely). In that case, this should just be gg mafia right now since you know exactly who to lynch and check and we could potentially be out of here in a few more days pending vigi hits and such. Given that the three of you all seem to have separate agenda's, you all have different opinions on who to lynch, this possibility cannot be true. 2) All three of BC, L, Incog are blue/green but somebody is lying- If all three of you are on townside then the best possibility is that one or some of you are actually lying about the information you know. This actually seems like the most possible scenario right now considering how divided the town is. However when the truth is out someone's going to have to pay for it, especially if we don't start lynching mafia soon. This is only going to cause more trouble for the town in the long run unless we get lucky with our lynches. 3) Two of BC, L, Incog are legit, and one is a mafia- Does not actually seem likely because of the mafia hits last night. If one of you is mafia, and you really know blue roles, why did two seemingly useless greens die last night? I guess if one of you is mafia, then you're probably lying about the amount of blues you role, which is a fair assumption. But when that information gets public you're going to die fast, so it doesn't make much sense you would claim to know a bunch of blue roles if you were mafia and you don't. The two legit people could easily just rat you out and we'd probably kill whichever one of you was lying (consequently, that'd probably be the GF). Doesn't seem to make sense for one of you to be mafia at this stage. 4) Two or more of BC, L, Incog are mafia- Considering roles were randomized, and the current state of the town, does this really seem so farfetched? People keep saying that this game is inactive, and certain people need to start posting. What about our elected officials? L didn't get in office and he's the only one around. BC has hardly said anything until now, and Incog is sitting in the shadows as well. Doesn't seem like we can call people out on being inactive when our own elected officials are mia half the time. On March 15 2010 12:22 Foolishness wrote:Right now I think Abenson is the best candidate to lynch. Abenson is inactive just like he was in the other game where he was mafia. He would pop in to make a post from time to time, then disappear. Cliche mafia behavior. This game is no different. In the previous game as well, people were constantly calling him out in the thread, and he never responded, and that seems to be happening again this game. The key point is that looking through his posts, I noticed that he was spamming one liners like good ol' Abenson usually does right up until after the game started. This really stood out since he was clearly active and posting and then disappeared not long after the game started. He has also been making useless posts: Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:47 Abenson wrote:
Reading the posts above, I have come to conclude that the town does indeed need a pro-town mayor/pardoner, whether they be blue or not. Therefore I propose that all the veterans make a few posts explaining their reasoning about how this game will work, and to also give the more inexperienced players (like me) someone to vote for. Someone else already called him out on this (to which he did not respond). But honestly there's no reason to make this post, considering all the "veterans" definitely posted their game plan when they decided to run for office. Don't know what he was thinking but this post makes no sense. Outside of this it's hard to find a post he made that was longer than two lines. On March 16 2010 10:26 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:10 Zona wrote:On March 15 2010 09:38 Foolishness wrote:
There is a point that needs to be addressed to the town. L claims he has a circle of 3(?) blues, BC said he claimed to people and has hinted he knows blues, Incog claims he knows a bunch of blues as well. There are more blues going around than there are probably in the game. If you all were really blue, why haven't you coordinated together? If all of you were legit, I'd expect this game to be near over for the mafia because you probably know over half the town is innocent. Why isn't this happening? Why are none of you telling us who to lynch (exception of L here). Somebody's full of shit with you three. At least one of you is lying about the information you know. Based on what you three have individually said, this game should be nearly over. Why are we still playing and why are we guessing on who to lynch today? I agree with this part 100%. It's highly likely at least one of the L, BC, or Incognito isn't speaking the truth. I'm claimed somebody's paying attention. This is half the reason why I called out BC in the thread and demanded answers. Who ever was saying that Versatile and myself are suspicious for trying to start a riot is ridiculous. There's obviously something going on here that one of the three isn't telling us. Good news is though, BC came out and told us everything, and he's actually following the plan he outlined on day one (yeah I don't like it either, that's why I didn't vote for him). But unless he doesn't produce a mafia in the coming days there's no reason to question what he's doing. If he's playing the town he'll get found out sooner or later. On March 16 2010 11:13 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 11:10 Zona wrote:On March 16 2010 11:08 L wrote:
To elaborate on what BC just said:
2 DTs seem to have checked the same target, which was bussed to a second target. Whether or not this is a fluke or someone's lying intensely is yet to be found. To once again avoid misinterpreting your genius. Does this mean you and BC are cooperating? Obviously, that's why they're both advocating lynching the same people. -_- On March 16 2010 11:20 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 11:15 Zona wrote:On March 16 2010 11:13 Foolishness wrote:On March 16 2010 11:10 Zona wrote:On March 16 2010 11:08 L wrote:
To elaborate on what BC just said:
2 DTs seem to have checked the same target, which was bussed to a second target. Whether or not this is a fluke or someone's lying intensely is yet to be found. To once again avoid misinterpreting your genius. Does this mean you and BC are cooperating? Obviously, that's why they're both advocating lynching the same people. -_- L has been saying that some of us have been misinterpreting him. I want to make sure that everything he has to say is entirely clear for the town to judge. I believe L has been saying people have been misinterpreting him because people are saying: "Oh, L claimed this role" "nuh uh, L said he was this other role" "BC said that Jspazz said that BM said that Qatol said that Showtime said L is a jack!" When in fact, L hasn't claimed a thing in the entire thread.
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edit: ops I posted instead of edited o.o
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