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Mini Mafia 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
December 04 2009 22:29 GMT
#29
i can play
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
December 09 2009 03:06 GMT
#46
On December 08 2009 14:17 ketomai wrote:
It's 16th for me, I think if you skip the week after this one then everyone will probably be done.

same
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 04 2010 13:57 GMT
#60
hihi
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 20:19 GMT
#91
Hello. Reading posts
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#92
On January 06 2010 00:51 Qatol wrote:
blue yet again!

lolz
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 20:46 GMT
#95
so a medic claim

1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done.

short of a DT role-check i don't see how you can be confirmed, and that could barely qualify as concrete evidence regardless , seeing how you openly claimed.
so obviously im missing out on your plan , as the rest of the town. why would you keep this information/plan hidden ?

also, this,

Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.

? i suggest if there is another medic , they counterclaim. the odds of there being 2 medics in a ~11-12 player game is substantial. the fact that you posted this statement is rather godfatherly.
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 20:58 GMT
#100

What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.

isn't that kind of risky? provided judge doesn't openly claim who he was protecting , if he listed ace and L and himself for protection, and ace was mafia, for example-

ace: Oh hey guys i was protected last night lololol
judge: uh no, i protected myself
ace: oh
ace: .. FUUUU
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 21:12 GMT
#102
Yeeh. Vet or liar. the point was i didn't see how mafia could really "fake" a confirmation without running risks of being caught. particularly high ones
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 21:21 GMT
#105
Yeah, but is the costs of holding a hit really worth it ? Considering its a smallish 11-12 player game, wouldn't the mafia be better off killing someone ASAP ?
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 05 2010 21:24 GMT
#106
The way i see it is, either
a) you get someone killed now, hopefully a blue, or a good townie,
- destroys their possible blue abilities
- limits town leadership

OR

b) you play it smooth and try to get that extra kill anyways, AND make town waste a lynch
but also it could backfire and you get nothing.

choice A looks a lot better to me if i was mafia
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 06 2010 05:57 GMT
#126
On January 06 2010 10:04 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 09:39 Chezinu wrote:
Ok, I will not use my usual tactics this game L. I was thinking about changing it up even before I read your post. I just ask of you if you can tone down your language?

What language? I'm positively cordial this game, my good sir.

i believe he's referring to your first post where u shit on 1/2 the town ^_^
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 07 2010 00:13 GMT
#173
Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge?
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 07 2010 00:33 GMT
#180
On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.

Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.

L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.

RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.

The rest are null-reads as well.

Except Malongo. He reads mafia.

because.. ? o.O
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 07 2010 00:36 GMT
#182
^ well zato and some others have made posts, but i was just asking mostly because i wanted his opinion
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 07 2010 01:18 GMT
#219
Now, assuming Judge is blue, i made this little list. Obviously this is just to offer up my thoughts/and summarize the thread, moreso, then actual concrete accusations, because , at least to me, there aren't any.

1. RebirthOfLeGend - obv. against judge , posts a lot of irrelevant info. about previous games. red
2. Ace - likewise, find it funny they agree with each other for once(not like, omg fish funny, just funny in general ) red
3. L green
4. vx70GTOJudgexv blue
5. Scamp - usually quiet when mafia, probably quiet if given a blue role as well. green
6. Zato-1 green
7. Chezinu - i dont see why he wouldn't keep up with his masquerade-ish style of posting if given a blue/red role therefore green
8. nemY - makes a case against judge red
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 07 2010 04:21 nemY wrote:
My Problem with Judge

Show nested quote +
On August 24 2009 14:27 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Here's the problem with the "medic claims" plan - the mod can discretionarily leave out any of those roles. So mafia can make a gambit and say "I'm the DT." and the medic only gets one DT claim. You bus one mafioso, since KP doesn't change. Medic announces "ydg is mafia" and then people lynch him and he is, DT is trusted. NK a townie. Town is down to 9, takes 5 to lynch. The fake-DT offers up an innocent. Town lynches someone else as long as the fake-DT's partner lays low. They nightkill the innocent. Down to 7, takes 4 to lynch. Another innocent is offered up. Another non-investigated player is lynched. Said innocent is NKed. Down to 5, takes 3 to lynch. Lylo for town. fake-DT offers an innocent, lynch the other, and GG. They NK the other non-medic and 2 mafiosos vote to lynch the medic next day. One mafioso is sacced to gain the trust of the town and then it's field day.

EDIT: That's just one scenario that could play out. You could have a medic only game in this format theoretically. The semi-openness is what makes it balanced. It's very hard for a semi-open format to be broken by a massclaim because you can have as many or as little of each role.


was posted in the previous Mini-Mafia game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99804&currentpage=20

Now Judge specifically dismisses the idea of a anyone publicly roleclaiming and now he wants us to believe that it's ok with him? Are you suppose to be an exception to your own rule? You say you have a fail-safe plan? This game isn't designed to have fail-safe 100% guaranteed plans.

Besides that, the track record with anybody publicly role-claiming before night one is zilch I believe (myself included). All they do is start needless chaos and mayhem (which is always in the best interests of the mafia). The best method for reducing this needless drama is getting rid of them early. This is why I'm voting to lynch Judge.


9. HeavOnEarth - seems to be the general consensus- green
10. Vivi57 - points out inactivity and gives some information in past games referring to scamp, also used the term +EV so <3 green
12. Mikeymoo - seems to be genuinely busy green
13. Malongo - reason im making this post, seems green to me green
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 07 2010 01:31 GMT
#224
If anyone else wants it : judge's posting history. gonna read/review offer thoughts in a bit

+ Show Spoiler [Judge] +
+ Show Spoiler [1] +
On January 05 2010 17:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Hmm.. No clues, and no majority lynches make for an awkward D1. However, I have a plan.

I AM A MEDIC.

Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off.

Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding.

Why?

1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself.

2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets.

3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects.


+ Show Spoiler [2] +

On January 06 2010 04:43 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote:
Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late.


Difference here is the fact that I know what I'm doing here.

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote:
[1]Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime.

On a final note:
[2]Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11.

Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on?


[1] - We'll discuss protection options as the day draws near an end. I'm leaning towards L or Ace tonight, depending on how each plays.

[2] - I think we're at 12 (9 & 3) and this should be full reveal, not limited flip.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:

Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this.


It does a number of things - it can provide a confirmed townie which is the worst possible thing for mafia to have to go up against, because it's someone that no matter what, they cannot push a lynch on, and worst of all - I'm not one of the top players in the game, so I'm not someone they want to waste a NK on either. Even if I'm barking up the completely wrong tree they have to try and kill me because they can't get me lynched once I'm confirmed. It forces mafia to play a guessing game. Sure, they had to play one before, but it was minimized. Now, they have to try and outguess the entire town. I can ask the town directly - who do we want to keep protected tonight and form a list. Mafia players will either have to sacrifice a potential target and put him up on the list or out themselves with a ridiculous choice and/or not post at all. Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect.

Doctor can be a much more powerful role out in the open.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him.


I wouldn't direct a vig to hit anyone and protect that, because our vigs are one-shot. There are later plans for any vigs. Regarding the DT, I have a plan for any potential DTs we have, but that steps in on D2.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers.


I'm a medic though. And I'm trying to do something different because I've seen it work, I've seen this tactic in play. Besides, as odd of a defense as it is, this is nowhere near my scum meta, even if I was GF. I much prefer to push attention away from myself, because I'm prone to fuckups if I try and be too active.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well.


The ability to be a confirmed townie and force mafia to adapt uncomfortably.
The ability to force mafia into a guessing game.
The ability to bring the town together and become a town leader here.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote:
Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it.

So we have 2 topics of interest now:

1) Medic claim
2) Who y'all wanna kill


It does seem odd that no one is talking about it.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote:
I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics?

This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format.


I can protect myself. That was the kicker. It might not make sense for there to be two medics, but there very well could be. We don't know, and I don't try and out-guess the mod, no matter what the most likely scenario of "who should be scum" or "Why would he do this".

@Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you.

Also, for a kill, I say if he doesn't really put effort into it, Chezinu should be the day 1 lynch. No matter what he flips, it's a win for town.


+ Show Spoiler [3] +

On January 06 2010 08:28 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 06:40 Vivi57 wrote:
Judge is probably vet or gf. Either way, using a rolecheck on him is a waste because it tells us nothing.


Or I'm a medic.

And because everyone wants to know:

Yes, the plan does involve a DT R/C on me.

Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect.
See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there.


Actually, I read it first used in a 12 man closed setup. No clue as to whether a GF was there or not. Could have been two medics, could have been 5. Nothing was known. This is semi-open which makes it just as effective.

Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia and my mouth could be mafia providing a plethora of problems. If I pretended to be a mouth, there could be the problem of "He might be mafia." and then I would be outed as medic sooner or later, leading to questions why I chose to fake using a mouth.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner.


Actually, it isn't because night roles can't act yet, it's because I'm keeping mafia on their toes.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote:
What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night.

How exactly are you going to confirm anyone?

The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member.


I wasn't going to claim any confirmation through a protection. I was going to wait until just before day ended and bark some orders, matter of fact.

Also, in a setup like this, as a scum-gambit to false claim doc and fake confirmation there is no major gain.

BTW, you're catching on with the last part - none of my actions fit the profile of a medic, which can cause people to question the veracity. I am the medic, but how much are the mafia going to believe that?

The plan works in a few parts. The first part is the claim. The second part is making it through the day and establishing a plan for the night in terms of protections. Third part involves a DT rolechecking me.

Day 2 I will explain at the beginning of Day 2. If I lay out the entire plan right now, the plan is lost.


+ Show Spoiler [4] +

On January 06 2010 09:16 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote:
Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic.
Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification.


Touche.

Show nested quote +

Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia
AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW?

HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo


Clarification: I could easily pick a mafioso as my mouth, and all information would flow through him, and thus to others. Generally, a mouth this early on is stupid. Is it the greatest position to leave me out in the open today? No. But I don't have to worry about going to a potential mouth, PMing him and having him not come forward with the information.


+ Show Spoiler [5] +

On January 07 2010 03:54 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Unfortunately the town does not see the benefits of my maneuver, but you will in time. Get me through to tomorrow and this game will be very much in our control.

Stop asking questions about the plan, because the more I lay out now, the less effective it is. Right now it is 9 hours to deadline, and a slew of people have decided to go under. Let's figure out which one of them is going to be a lynch candidate tonight, and at 10:50 PM EST I will lay out the night phase of my plan for you all to see.

I've got a pretty good feeling that this is going to catch one mafia tonight, if you just let me work my magic.


+ Show Spoiler [6] +

On January 07 2010 04:25 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
nemY - I honestly forgot about that. I also hadn't seen this plan in use when I had made that post, fwiw. That post was some 5 months ago. I've played about 9 games since then and read plenty more.

And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D

Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it.


+ Show Spoiler [7] +

On January 07 2010 04:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Wow. You guys are fucking retarded.

Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you?

Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked.


+ Show Spoiler [8] +

On January 07 2010 04:30 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
BTW - Ace is mafia, calling it now.


+ Show Spoiler [9] +

On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
General responses:

I've said part of it before. The first objective of the claim was to allow me to work out in the open, scare scum and also because I do have a plan. The second objective is to put myself in a position to lead the town in the right direction, because otherwise we'd be voting to no-lynch today, which on Day 1 is an awful play.

You think it's scummy that I don't give out every detail of my plan? That's great. Unfortunately, as I've re-iterated before and I'll do again, giving out every detail of my plan makes it useless.

Let me help you all out and put this claim in perspective from both points of view:

From a Town-aligned point of view: I am a medic. I can sit back, hope not to draw too much attention to me during the day or the night and try and protect the right hits. OR I can come out in the open and claim. Thus, the mafia is now wondering a myriad of things. Am I the real medic? Am I bluffing? Can they hit me successfully? Will I protect the people I list? Will they hit the one I protect? If he's not the medic, we'll be able to get him lynched, but if he is, we might not. Do we try and kill him at night?

Now I have one-up on the mafia. I don't need to outguess them. I'll protect who I choose to and wait.

If you think a medic's only use is to absorb kills, you're dead wrong.

From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.

This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective.


+ Show Spoiler [10] +

On January 07 2010 09:11 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 09:07 mikeymoo wrote:
On January 07 2010 08:32 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned.

This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective.

Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill.


It was just a possible way for mafia to try and confirm themselves being the medic. Obviously the vet throws it off as does the no confirmation via PM of a save.


+ Show Spoiler [11] +

On January 07 2010 09:18 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge?


There's still some 4 hours left to the day, I will though.

Any input from players on who I should protect from the town?


+ Show Spoiler [12] +

On January 07 2010 09:31 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
So far Ace, L, RoL, mikey, Scamp and Zato have put forth discussion and not been putting up fluff. Chez hasn't put up much and I don't like that most recent post, Malongo put in a major bullshit go with the flow post and nemY has had minimal posting. Vivi hasn't really said much and is voting Mikey for some reason which he neglected to elaborate on. HoE has very few posts.

Ace reads as mafia to me, and his opposition on malongo sounds like he's trying to sway town away from lynching who he thinks is a townie. Two motivations: 1 - he knows malongo is a townie and is trying to earn town credit by pulling off of that lynch and voicing opposition. 2 - Malongo is his mafia buddy and he doesn't want him dead.

L, Zato, Mikey and Scamp read town aligned to me, promoting decent discussion and trying to understand something. Not overly trusting or buddying, but not too paranoid.

RoL is odd. He seemed to react very emotionally to the claim, which to me is generally a town-tell. But he hasn't really tried to wrap his head around anything, which to me is generally a scum-tell. Null-read atm.

The rest are null-reads as well.

Except Malongo. He reads mafia.


+ Show Spoiler [13] +

On January 07 2010 09:39 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 09:33 Malongo wrote:
I still dont see much gain from mafia to fakeclaim, thats why im inclined to think judge isnt mafia. Im really trusting the "other" blues here. Btw some votes on me are really lol votes, im not gonna defend myself but the only guy that has a "reason" to lynch me is L and he is based on previous games. Zato thinks im mafia because I was making separate groups. Funny shit the guys that i say im inclined to trust are insta voting me (L and judge) what do you think zato-1?


I originally voted you to force a no-lynch and save my sorry ass from being idiot-lynched.

Now I'm voting you because your one "real" post in the thread reeked of active lurking, a wonderful scum tactic, of coming in and providing nothing but fluff and lack of contribution to the game. You barely put anything new on the table, then disappeared for a lovely 24 hours. You come back and again provide nothing new to the discussion, and get all OMGUS on me for calling you out.


+ Show Spoiler [14] +

On January 07 2010 09:40 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
HoE, does that answer your post?


+ Show Spoiler [15] +

On January 07 2010 09:46 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 09:43 Ace wrote:
Judge I always try to stop the town from killing people with random bandwagons. That's not a scum tell that's an ACE tell. That's probably the one trait that you can find I do consistently every game.

Oh and argue with RoL too.


The first part still reeks of anti-town nature at minimum, mafia nature more likely.

The second part - huh?


+ Show Spoiler [16] +

On January 07 2010 09:47 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
BTW, Ace, might want to work on getting that tunnel vision checked out.


+ Show Spoiler [17] +

On January 07 2010 09:52 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 09:49 Ace wrote:
how is stopping a bandwagon anti-town? You'll have to explain that one to me. I've done it every game regardless of what role I've had so you can't call it a tell.

The second part was sarcasm.

L I'm not switching to RoL unless there's a really convincing argument.


Generally, a player voicing opposition to a bandwagon with little case is a mafia member trying to either prevent his partner from being lynched or trying to get townie credit by opposing a wagon on a townie.

This is my experience.

Also, I see no reason to switch to RoL at the moment. He's a null read to me.


+ Show Spoiler [18] +

On January 07 2010 10:00 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 09:55 Ace wrote:
@Judge: You forgot the other part: Is a townie trying to stop the town from lynching a player with no cause. You can read the game where I think BC almost got MikeyMoo lynched and I stuck my neck out to save him. Both of us were innocent.


I almost never see this. One example does not justify a meta defense.

"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 07 2010 02:15 GMT
#242
it wasn't meant for accusations RoL- you missed the point entirely =/
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 08 2010 00:42 GMT
#333
On January 08 2010 07:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I guess inactivity is to be expected for this night?

yea seems so
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 11 2010 19:24 GMT
#605
On January 12 2010 02:47 Qatol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2010 18:29 Ace wrote:
On January 11 2010 18:15 Vivi57 wrote:
The minute Judge claimed Medic I was expecting a town lynch. It was actually the perfect reaction no matter what role I had : any Day 1 claims especially something that can't be proven should be looked at as a Mafia ploy. We've been through this like almost every game but it's impossible to know when the town is thinking straight.


wrong. there's very little to gain from lynching judge at that point


No it's right. We know he's lying. Its no longer even a question of "oh gee why would Mafia do that?!". You don't know what the Mafia knows. You don't know if someone slipped up some info in PMs. It comes down to is this guy lying or not? And townies that lie aren't going to get you very far. This very game showed you that because for all the praise of Judge's plan it didn't even come through.




I immediately told Incognito to make me a Medic and I started accusing Judge. Even with Judge's bad play I was hoping I'd get DT checked. Amazingly I didn't, nor did Judge. This was my alibi for calling Judge out - I knew he was lying not only because it was a dumb move but because I was the real medic.


mistake 2. We agreed that judge would turn up blue whether he was gf medic or vet. We were wrong, but there was still a 100% chance he wouldn't turn up red. We also knew that if you were mafia, you'd be gf so checking you was stupid.


Wrong again. You have NO idea about anything relating to Judge. Nothing. There was no one connected to Judge in any way. All you know is this:

Judge claimed Medic on Day 1.

Stop trying to make it sound like there was some hidden condition by which Judge had to be innocent. There isn't one. You also didn't know I was GF. This is the same logic that was used last game I was Mafia and look what happened then.


Chezinu role claims the next day, and then Zato does right after. This was SWEET for us because no matter what Chez said it wasn't going to stick. I went to bed knowing it was highly possible for chez to die.


mistake 3. Going over all the possible scenarios, it was an extremely easy decision to hit mikey then vig chez if necessary. You keep playing under the assumption that killing all claimers is the best way to go about it and that's made you make many mistakes this game.


What is this bs? Can you list all the possible scenarios? The only claimer I wanted to kill was Judge. He lied, he had a plan, and it was on a role that couldn't be verified. Whether I'm town or Mafia why in the hell would I want him in a leadership role?

So all in all I think we did well considering the town had 0 clue what was going on, and it was Malongo's play and Chez's Ids that got the game sealed away. The town was making mistake after mistake and before this time frame no one was doing anything.


The best players will make you think they played like shit and just get lucky while in reality, they're so many levels ahead of you that you can't begin to comprehend what they're thinking. Your continual cries to lynch the claimer hurt you badly because everyone could ignore you instead of having to respond to constructive play.


Amazing, because the best players this game were 2, possibly even a 3rd person no one would have expected. Don't even try to post drivel like this and make it sound like there was some major mind game going on here. There was no major comprehension that was missing at all this game - everyone was playing screwy and letting things that normally would lead to death, like lying, just go. The site Judge even plays on his this in plain sight.

Then again you can just ask other Mafia players on this forum that didn't play but watched this game what they think. Either way I had fun this game but in no way should anyone think Medic claims on Day 1 is some brilliant strategy that only Einstein could come up with - especially when it didn't even help you win.

I followed the game relatively closely from the outside (so I can only give analysis on the thread itself) and can write up my thoughts about the game if anyone is interested. Let me know if anyone cares.

I'd love to hear your viewpoint on the game.
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
January 12 2010 06:00 GMT
#631
On January 12 2010 12:58 Qatol wrote:
There, post done. Hope it lived up to expectations.

it was nice ^^
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
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