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On October 25 2012 08:40 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:35 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:29 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. This, in addition to the fact that, according to your moderation history, every time you've banned, you've sent the moderator an angry PM. Yes, Kwark could be a bit nicer. Yes, there is preferential treatment for people who have contributed to the community. But think about what it looks like when a 100 post user who's just recently been banned by a moderator to call for his demodding. 1. You just come off like you're looking for revenge. 2. You come off as a new user who clearly doesn't know anything about the site and tries to tell us how we should run things and who should be out of a job with things like: TL;DR: Kwark needs to go. TL;DR: Perhaps you should go if you don't like it here so much. Or just, you know, let it go and follow the rules. You're clearly not winning this argument. I assume you've read the OP in its entirety. I'm curious as to how you'd respond to this: On October 25 2012 08:17 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:12 KwarK wrote:
Also this idea that I am insulting disabled people seems to have come out of nowhere. I am insulting people who I am assuming are entirely able by comparing to those who are medically recognised as being less able. I am using the concept of a person who is commonly understood to be deficient medically as a benchmark by which I negatively compare the victim of the insult.
If I were to describe someone as being as stupid as neversummer then the implication would be that neversummer is stupid (for he would have to be for the insult to have meaning) and both neversummer and the victim should feel offended.
If, however, I were to describe neversummer as having the understanding of a 4 year old then 4 year olds everywhere shouldn't feel particularly offended because they do have the understanding of 4 year olds, it's a fair description, whereas neversummer, who is probably nearer to the 8 or 9 year old level, should feel insulted by this.
I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone how describing works but here we are. Oh, the irony! The idea that I am insinuating all homosexuals are pedophiles similarly "came out of nowhere," and I was even banned for it! Just for the record, then, you're suggesting it IS okay to insult people fully capable, but NOT okay to insult those who are not. Are homosexuals not fully capable? Also, winning an argument is not based upon how many people disagree with you or agree with your opponent. It is based upon who is right and who is wrong. No one ever accused you of calling homosexuals paedophiles. People are accusing you of making a distinction between homosexuals and heterosexuals. Homophobia insults homosexual people. Calling a mentally retarded kid 'stupid' is harsh, but it's kinda fact. I've never given Kwark brownie points for being nice, and I am struggling to figure out exactly what he's doing to his girlfriend to make her think he's the 'sweetest guy like evaaaar', but he generally tells the truth as it is.
Child molester=pedophile
Kwark said insulting people who are not fully capable is wrong. Mentally impaired children are not fully capable. Most homosexuals are.
Edit: Actually, Kwark said insulting people who are fully capable is okay. This adds more credibility to my argument than the previous wording.
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On October 25 2012 08:27 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:25 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 neversummer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Show nested quote +Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. I'm curious as to how you would respond to this, then: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UNL7l.png) Which was followed by this: On October 04 2012 01:56 KwarK wrote:
The post you got warned for ended
"Am I just being stupid to feel offended?"
The answer was yes for then and doubly yes for now. A warning is no big deal, just an instruction not to do what you got warned for. For some reason (maybe stupidity, maybe some other deficiency on your part, maybe something else) you felt the need to post "first". Now I don't wish to speculate about why (maybe you're dumb?) but the why (dumb maybe?) doesn't really matter, you posted "first" and you got warned for it because it's a shitty post that we don't do on teamliquid.
You then felt the need for some reason (dropped on your head as a child?) to make a shitty topic in general forum asking if you were stupid for being offended by a standard warning message you got for making a shitty post. I then warned you for making such a shitty topic because you should have known better after you already got warned for shitposting but didn't know better for some reason (maybe foetal alcohol syndrome?). I also answered your question, although it was just my opinion and if you would like an official diagnosis of stupid then please consult a medical professional.
I would not like to hazard a guess at why you saw the need to make yet another topic as you may get offended by my speculation on the matter. By restating my main argument. In my mind any validity your argument may have is reduced by the fact that you were recently banned by Kwark. If someone else were making this point I'd be more inclined to listen to them. That is called circumstantial ad hominem and is a logical fallacy.
Thanks for pointing out that it is a logical fallacy. I don't agree or care. The intention of your post, IMO, is to get back at the moderator who banned you. That affects the way I see your post, logical fallacy or not.
But if you want me to address your claims of Kwark's moderation, I believe in your specific case, he is in the right. You sent an aggressive PM and he responded dismissively.
In the case where Kwark insults the other poster, this is the first post in that thread:
On October 04 2012 00:45 HanClan wrote:
I don't give a fuck who you are, but it seems like you are the dumb fuck who's not understanding the situation ^^
Yes, I did post a comment on the GSL predictions saying "First one to comment! Sad to see Nestea fail D:"
If doing so was wrong, you could have just said "Comments saying first is not allowed"
or those sorts of comments in my PM.
But instead of doing so, you guys chose to insult not only me but also my relatives including my grandmother and my family.
I don't know where you guys learned your manners but seems like the one who taught you guys(mostly like to be your parents) are full of shit ^^
"You were shitposting, got a warning for it and seem confused by the situation. Don't shitpost. Also don't make shitty topics"
Thanks KwarK. Seems like you are the real one who is fucking confused by the situation. Learn how to use better words than "Shitty" and "Stupid"
User was temp banned for this post.
Once again Kwark responding to a rude and aggressive post. Sure Kwark is a bit rude, but in both of those cases he was merely responding in kind.
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On October 25 2012 08:40 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:35 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:29 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. This, in addition to the fact that, according to your moderation history, every time you've banned, you've sent the moderator an angry PM. Yes, Kwark could be a bit nicer. Yes, there is preferential treatment for people who have contributed to the community. But think about what it looks like when a 100 post user who's just recently been banned by a moderator to call for his demodding. 1. You just come off like you're looking for revenge. 2. You come off as a new user who clearly doesn't know anything about the site and tries to tell us how we should run things and who should be out of a job with things like: TL;DR: Kwark needs to go. TL;DR: Perhaps you should go if you don't like it here so much. Or just, you know, let it go and follow the rules. You're clearly not winning this argument. I assume you've read the OP in its entirety. I'm curious as to how you'd respond to this: On October 25 2012 08:17 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:12 KwarK wrote:
Also this idea that I am insulting disabled people seems to have come out of nowhere. I am insulting people who I am assuming are entirely able by comparing to those who are medically recognised as being less able. I am using the concept of a person who is commonly understood to be deficient medically as a benchmark by which I negatively compare the victim of the insult.
If I were to describe someone as being as stupid as neversummer then the implication would be that neversummer is stupid (for he would have to be for the insult to have meaning) and both neversummer and the victim should feel offended.
If, however, I were to describe neversummer as having the understanding of a 4 year old then 4 year olds everywhere shouldn't feel particularly offended because they do have the understanding of 4 year olds, it's a fair description, whereas neversummer, who is probably nearer to the 8 or 9 year old level, should feel insulted by this.
I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone how describing works but here we are. Oh, the irony! The idea that I am insinuating all homosexuals are pedophiles similarly "came out of nowhere," and I was even banned for it! Just for the record, then, you're suggesting it IS okay to insult people fully capable, but NOT okay to insult those who are not. Are homosexuals not fully capable? Also, winning an argument is not based upon how many people disagree with you or agree with your opponent. It is based upon who is right and who is wrong. No one ever accused you of calling homosexuals paedophiles. People are accusing you of making a distinction between homosexuals and heterosexuals. Homophobia insults homosexual people. Calling a mentally retarded kid 'stupid' is harsh, but it's kinda fact. I've never given Kwark brownie points for being nice, and I am struggling to figure out exactly what he's doing to his girlfriend to make her think he's the 'sweetest guy like evaaaar', but he generally tells the truth as it is.
i still have a problem with banning for making that distinction. ultimately, many people believe its a shitty opinion, but if someone truly feels that way, they should be allowed to discuss it in a professional manner. adding "prancing" to the opinion didn't help much though. i'm not clear why neversummer didn't address micronesia's post though. he seems to respond pretty quickly in this thread, but not that one....
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Lalalaland34483 Posts
I personally wouldn't have banned for that post, perhaps a warning; parts of it could have either been interpreted as a joke or as a true homophobic post. But as with most bans on this site there is past moderation history to look at.
No one is truly focusing on the original post any more though. That stuff is old and boring. The funny part of this entire thing is how he reacted with the PMs etc, leading all the way to this topic.
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On October 25 2012 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
I personally wouldn't have banned for that post, perhaps a warning; parts of it could have either been interpreted as a joke or as a true homophobic post. But as with most bans on this site there is past moderation history to look at.
No one is truly focusing on the original post any more though. That stuff is old and boring. The funny part of this entire thing is how he reacted with the PMs etc, leading all the way to this topic.
Oh I agree this thread is awesome. Someone really needs to address the major holes in Kwark's argument, though. It will only lead to more lulz. If I do it, no one will take me seriously ;/
I'll cry myself to sleep tonight. Or maybe pass out after 4 world series blunts to the face. We shall see my friend. We shall see.
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On October 25 2012 08:50 Firebolt145 wrote:
I personally wouldn't have banned for that post, perhaps a warning; parts of it could have either been interpreted as a joke or as a true homophobic post. But as with most bans on this site there is past moderation history to look at.
No one is truly focusing on the original post any more though. That stuff is old and boring. The funny part of this entire thing is how he reacted with the PMs etc, leading all the way to this topic.
yeah, my devil's advocacy won't extend to his PMs--i consider those abusive all things being considered (e.g., that Kwark is volunteering his time to take out the trash).
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neversummer, as I see it, the truth is as follows:
You are impossible to argue with (this is not a good thing), and you are the only person in this thread who does not see that you've lost, awfully. That is, assuming there was anything to 'lose', in the first place; your continuous efforts to be entirely unreasonable in this thread could hardly be classified as having an argument. I read the 'argument' you had with just about everyone in the [SFW] Pics thread, and it was eerily similar to this, in that everyone but you realized you were wrong.
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United States8476 Posts
On October 25 2012 08:35 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:29 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. This, in addition to the fact that, according to your moderation history, every time you've banned, you've sent the moderator an angry PM. Yes, Kwark could be a bit nicer. Yes, there is preferential treatment for people who have contributed to the community. But think about what it looks like when a 100 post user who's just recently been banned by a moderator to call for his demodding. 1. You just come off like you're looking for revenge. 2. You come off as a new user who clearly doesn't know anything about the site and tries to tell us how we should run things and who should be out of a job with things like: TL;DR: Kwark needs to go. TL;DR: Perhaps you should go if you don't like it here so much. Or just, you know, let it go and follow the rules. You're clearly not winning this argument. I assume you've read the OP in its entirety. I'm curious as to how you'd respond to this: Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:17 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:12 KwarK wrote:
Also this idea that I am insulting disabled people seems to have come out of nowhere. I am insulting people who I am assuming are entirely able by comparing to those who are medically recognised as being less able. I am using the concept of a person who is commonly understood to be deficient medically as a benchmark by which I negatively compare the victim of the insult.
If I were to describe someone as being as stupid as neversummer then the implication would be that neversummer is stupid (for he would have to be for the insult to have meaning) and both neversummer and the victim should feel offended.
If, however, I were to describe neversummer as having the understanding of a 4 year old then 4 year olds everywhere shouldn't feel particularly offended because they do have the understanding of 4 year olds, it's a fair description, whereas neversummer, who is probably nearer to the 8 or 9 year old level, should feel insulted by this.
I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone how describing works but here we are. Oh, the irony! The idea that I am insinuating all homosexuals are pedophiles similarly "came out of nowhere," and I was even banned for it! Just for the record, then, you're suggesting it IS okay to insult people fully capable, but NOT okay to insult those who are not. Are homosexuals not fully capable? Also, winning an argument is not based upon how many people disagree with you or agree with your opponent. It is based upon who is right and who is wrong.
First, I like how you just ignored everything I said and directed me to something else entirely.
Next, I have no idea the point you're trying to make with the quote you gave me. What Kwark said has nothing to do with who's capable or not capable. He's saying that being mentally handicapped means you're not that smart by definition, which isn't really an insult to mentally handicapped people. Whereas what you said implied that homosexuals are generally child molesters, which is definitely not in the definition of a child molester. I actually had to read what you said many times to figure out what you were trying to get at and then figured out that it was just a weak point.
Finally, since the purpose of your initial post was to demod Kwark, and you've failed to convince anyone that could influence that, or rather anyone at all actually, I'd say you're losing the argument. The only place you're winning is inside your own head.
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On October 25 2012 08:56 monk. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:35 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:29 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. This, in addition to the fact that, according to your moderation history, every time you've banned, you've sent the moderator an angry PM. Yes, Kwark could be a bit nicer. Yes, there is preferential treatment for people who have contributed to the community. But think about what it looks like when a 100 post user who's just recently been banned by a moderator to call for his demodding. 1. You just come off like you're looking for revenge. 2. You come off as a new user who clearly doesn't know anything about the site and tries to tell us how we should run things and who should be out of a job with things like: TL;DR: Kwark needs to go. TL;DR: Perhaps you should go if you don't like it here so much. Or just, you know, let it go and follow the rules. You're clearly not winning this argument. I assume you've read the OP in its entirety. I'm curious as to how you'd respond to this: On October 25 2012 08:17 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:12 KwarK wrote:
Also this idea that I am insulting disabled people seems to have come out of nowhere. I am insulting people who I am assuming are entirely able by comparing to those who are medically recognised as being less able. I am using the concept of a person who is commonly understood to be deficient medically as a benchmark by which I negatively compare the victim of the insult.
If I were to describe someone as being as stupid as neversummer then the implication would be that neversummer is stupid (for he would have to be for the insult to have meaning) and both neversummer and the victim should feel offended.
If, however, I were to describe neversummer as having the understanding of a 4 year old then 4 year olds everywhere shouldn't feel particularly offended because they do have the understanding of 4 year olds, it's a fair description, whereas neversummer, who is probably nearer to the 8 or 9 year old level, should feel insulted by this.
I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone how describing works but here we are. Oh, the irony! The idea that I am insinuating all homosexuals are pedophiles similarly "came out of nowhere," and I was even banned for it! Just for the record, then, you're suggesting it IS okay to insult people fully capable, but NOT okay to insult those who are not. Are homosexuals not fully capable? Also, winning an argument is not based upon how many people disagree with you or agree with your opponent. It is based upon who is right and who is wrong. First, I like how you just ignored everything I said and directed me to something else entirely. Next, I have no idea the point you're trying to make with the quote you gave me. What Kwark said has nothing to do with who's capable or not capable. He's saying that being mentally handicapped means you're not that smart by definition, which isn't really an insult to mentally handicapped people. Whereas what you said implied that homosexuals are generally child molesters, which is definitely not in the definition of a child molester. I actually had to read what you said many times to figure out what you were trying to get at and then figured out that it was just a weak point. Finally, since the purpose of your initial post was to demod Kwark, and you've failed to convince anyone that could influence that, or rather anyone at all actually, I'd say you're losing the argument. The only place you're winning is inside your own head.
I feel like my verbosity in the OP has led several, less capable minds astray.
Allow me to answer your question in the simplest way I can:
Kwark said it was okay that he insulted that individual, because he is fully capable. Kwark banned me for insulting homosexuals (even though I did not, but that's a separate matter). Homosexuals are fully capable.
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On October 25 2012 08:27 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:25 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 08:13 neversummer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Show nested quote +Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. I'm curious as to how you would respond to this, then: Which was followed by this: On October 04 2012 01:56 KwarK wrote:
The post you got warned for ended
"Am I just being stupid to feel offended?"
The answer was yes for then and doubly yes for now. A warning is no big deal, just an instruction not to do what you got warned for. For some reason (maybe stupidity, maybe some other deficiency on your part, maybe something else) you felt the need to post "first". Now I don't wish to speculate about why (maybe you're dumb?) but the why (dumb maybe?) doesn't really matter, you posted "first" and you got warned for it because it's a shitty post that we don't do on teamliquid.
You then felt the need for some reason (dropped on your head as a child?) to make a shitty topic in general forum asking if you were stupid for being offended by a standard warning message you got for making a shitty post. I then warned you for making such a shitty topic because you should have known better after you already got warned for shitposting but didn't know better for some reason (maybe foetal alcohol syndrome?). I also answered your question, although it was just my opinion and if you would like an official diagnosis of stupid then please consult a medical professional.
I would not like to hazard a guess at why you saw the need to make yet another topic as you may get offended by my speculation on the matter. By restating my main argument. In my mind any validity your argument may have is reduced by the fact that you were recently banned by Kwark. If someone else were making this point I'd be more inclined to listen to them. That is called circumstantial ad hominem and is a logical fallacy.
While you're right in this specific situation, you still have much to learn.
Real life is a little fucked up. A lot of political bullshit happens every day. What you just experienced here is exactly that. You seem to be a pretty intelligent guy with how you word your posts, and the logical construction of your initial arguments, but at the same time, you are also very dumb.
At the start of all of this, you fucked up. You made a homophobic remark. Kwark gave you a temp ban for it. Granted, it was a bit on the long side for that type of remark, at least in my opinion, however, the ban was deserving. I, myself, am heterosexual, but I do have family and friends who have different sexual preferences than myself, and would have definitely taken offense to that kind of statement if it was aimed at my sexual orientation. That's a good signal to me that others may take offense towards it.
Remember how I said that I thought the ban was a little long? At this point, you should have PMed either Kwark or another mod and tried to salvage your situation, getting the ban removed or reduced after explaining yourself in a civil fashion. Instead, the first PM you sent Kwark was, and I quote from your opening post:
To: KwarK [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Ummm....... what?
Date: 10/9/12 12:38
Homophobia? I said gay men should not lead boy scout troops. That qualifies as homophobia? Are you an omnipresent being who is capable of deciphering the motives, rationale and reasoning for the thoughts and opinions of others? How can you possibly determine, with absolute certainty, that I am homophobic merely for that opinion?
Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda.
My so-called "mod-history" is two temp bans from GMarshal for similar reasons; people abusing mod privileges to ban people whose opinions are not congruent with their own. Unbelievable man. Who do I contact for personal complaints?
What, exactly, is the reasoning for preventing gay men from leading boy scout troops? That's like saying your female child should not be taught by straight male teachers..... Even if you do not find your post to be homophobic, it sure came across that way to not just Kwark, but to many other people. The second and third paragraphs kill any chance of redemption though. Had you made yourself a case at this point in a more civil tone, you might have gotten somewhere. At this point, Kwark starts to really belittle you. Nobody, however, is going to give him shit for that. Why? Because it is in rebuttal to your PM, which happened after you got banned for that comment.
This is where politics come into play. It's not always about whether you are right or wrong (although that's a fuzzy concept in itself), a lot of the time the outcome can be partially decided by the reputation you have. Your reputation goes a long way, and in this respect, compare yourself and Kwark. One is a long-standing, respected member of the TL community, the other is a new person who has already been banned before, and has just made a comment that appears to be homophobic. Instead of cutting your losses at this point, you went through all the trouble to make this thread to try to publicly ostracize Kwark. You're using your clever arguments and logic, and think you're winning.
You're not.
Let's just get that straight.
You are not winning this argument.
It isn't about the logic you're using, or the quality of the arguments. What it comes down to at this point is that you started in a bad position, with the momentum swinging the opposite direction, and no matter what you do at this point, you won't be able to pull up in time. I really suggest you just quit posting in this thread, and learn from this experience. It's time to put on a parachute.....
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I'd like to say that speaking decent English doesn't make you smart.
Keep digging your own hole.
Edit : this reinforce my idea that the people who use the words "logical fallacy" are in fact stupid.
Oh fuck, I implied stupid people are stupid.
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United States41971 Posts
On October 25 2012 08:59 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:56 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:35 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:29 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. This, in addition to the fact that, according to your moderation history, every time you've banned, you've sent the moderator an angry PM. Yes, Kwark could be a bit nicer. Yes, there is preferential treatment for people who have contributed to the community. But think about what it looks like when a 100 post user who's just recently been banned by a moderator to call for his demodding. 1. You just come off like you're looking for revenge. 2. You come off as a new user who clearly doesn't know anything about the site and tries to tell us how we should run things and who should be out of a job with things like: TL;DR: Kwark needs to go. TL;DR: Perhaps you should go if you don't like it here so much. Or just, you know, let it go and follow the rules. You're clearly not winning this argument. I assume you've read the OP in its entirety. I'm curious as to how you'd respond to this: On October 25 2012 08:17 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:12 KwarK wrote:
Also this idea that I am insulting disabled people seems to have come out of nowhere. I am insulting people who I am assuming are entirely able by comparing to those who are medically recognised as being less able. I am using the concept of a person who is commonly understood to be deficient medically as a benchmark by which I negatively compare the victim of the insult.
If I were to describe someone as being as stupid as neversummer then the implication would be that neversummer is stupid (for he would have to be for the insult to have meaning) and both neversummer and the victim should feel offended.
If, however, I were to describe neversummer as having the understanding of a 4 year old then 4 year olds everywhere shouldn't feel particularly offended because they do have the understanding of 4 year olds, it's a fair description, whereas neversummer, who is probably nearer to the 8 or 9 year old level, should feel insulted by this.
I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone how describing works but here we are. Oh, the irony! The idea that I am insinuating all homosexuals are pedophiles similarly "came out of nowhere," and I was even banned for it! Just for the record, then, you're suggesting it IS okay to insult people fully capable, but NOT okay to insult those who are not. Are homosexuals not fully capable? Also, winning an argument is not based upon how many people disagree with you or agree with your opponent. It is based upon who is right and who is wrong. First, I like how you just ignored everything I said and directed me to something else entirely. Next, I have no idea the point you're trying to make with the quote you gave me. What Kwark said has nothing to do with who's capable or not capable. He's saying that being mentally handicapped means you're not that smart by definition, which isn't really an insult to mentally handicapped people. Whereas what you said implied that homosexuals are generally child molesters, which is definitely not in the definition of a child molester. I actually had to read what you said many times to figure out what you were trying to get at and then figured out that it was just a weak point. Finally, since the purpose of your initial post was to demod Kwark, and you've failed to convince anyone that could influence that, or rather anyone at all actually, I'd say you're losing the argument. The only place you're winning is inside your own head. I feel like my verbosity in the OP has led several, less capable minds astray. Allow me to answer your question in the simplest way I can: Kwark said it was okay that he insulted that individual, because he is fully capable. Kwark banned me for insulting homosexuals (even though I did not, but that's a separate matter). Homosexuals are fully capable.
You are not homosexuals. Homosexuals are homosexuals. You are neversummer. An identity crisis like yours is really quite remarkable. Anyway...
If I said "homosexuals are stupid" then that would be a homophobic comment. If I said "neversummer is stupid" then that would be an insult to you (although I would argue there is sufficient evidence for it to simply be a description at this point). Hopefully that clarifies it.
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On October 25 2012 09:03 corumjhaelen wrote:
I'd like to say that speaking decent English doesn't make you smart.
Keep digging your own hole.
Edit : this reinforce my idea that the people who use the words "logical fallacy" are in fact stupid.
Oh fuck, I implied stupid people are stupid.
This thread is so lol-worthy that even the horrific mess called Star Wars: Episode I has some pertinent words of wisdom for you.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
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for the sole purpose of throwing further gas on the fire, what if he meant that he didn't want homosexuals around the scouts because he felt that they were immoral according to his religious beliefs? people keep saying what he was implying, but this is an equally plausible theory as pedophilia. =D
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On October 25 2012 09:04 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 08:59 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:56 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:35 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:29 monk. wrote:On October 25 2012 08:10 ControlMonkey wrote:On October 25 2012 07:22 neversummer wrote:
Edit: It appears the vast majority of contributors to this thread have completely missed the purpose of my post. It is NOT to exonerate myself. It is to examine the behavior and moderation of Kwark. It is impossible to separate the two. As you have posted here shortly after you were bannedby Kwark, and have argued in this thread against the specifics of your ban (then saying but guys it's about Kwark), any point you may or may not have about Kwarks moderation are hard to take seriously. No matter what your INTENTION is, whe we read your posts all we see is someone who got banned, trying to get back at the moderator who banned him. And despite your previous posts about how what we infer from your posts isn't important, it's all we've got to go on. If you had not been recently banned by Kwark then maybe we could take your complaints seriously. But as it is, all the majority of TL member see is the fact that you are raging against the mod who banned you. Sure Kwark can be a bit rude, but when you send a PM including the below paragraph: Secondly, you ASSUME I am implying something? Is that a fucking joke? You're banning people for what they're implying, even when they're not implying anything at all? Holy shit dude, get some fucking perspective. If you are a gay man, that's fine, but don't abuse your privilege as a mod on these forums to pursue your own pro-gay agenda. I'm inclined to side with him. This, in addition to the fact that, according to your moderation history, every time you've banned, you've sent the moderator an angry PM. Yes, Kwark could be a bit nicer. Yes, there is preferential treatment for people who have contributed to the community. But think about what it looks like when a 100 post user who's just recently been banned by a moderator to call for his demodding. 1. You just come off like you're looking for revenge. 2. You come off as a new user who clearly doesn't know anything about the site and tries to tell us how we should run things and who should be out of a job with things like: TL;DR: Kwark needs to go. TL;DR: Perhaps you should go if you don't like it here so much. Or just, you know, let it go and follow the rules. You're clearly not winning this argument. I assume you've read the OP in its entirety. I'm curious as to how you'd respond to this: On October 25 2012 08:17 neversummer wrote:On October 25 2012 08:12 KwarK wrote:
Also this idea that I am insulting disabled people seems to have come out of nowhere. I am insulting people who I am assuming are entirely able by comparing to those who are medically recognised as being less able. I am using the concept of a person who is commonly understood to be deficient medically as a benchmark by which I negatively compare the victim of the insult.
If I were to describe someone as being as stupid as neversummer then the implication would be that neversummer is stupid (for he would have to be for the insult to have meaning) and both neversummer and the victim should feel offended.
If, however, I were to describe neversummer as having the understanding of a 4 year old then 4 year olds everywhere shouldn't feel particularly offended because they do have the understanding of 4 year olds, it's a fair description, whereas neversummer, who is probably nearer to the 8 or 9 year old level, should feel insulted by this.
I can't believe I'm having to explain to someone how describing works but here we are. Oh, the irony! The idea that I am insinuating all homosexuals are pedophiles similarly "came out of nowhere," and I was even banned for it! Just for the record, then, you're suggesting it IS okay to insult people fully capable, but NOT okay to insult those who are not. Are homosexuals not fully capable? Also, winning an argument is not based upon how many people disagree with you or agree with your opponent. It is based upon who is right and who is wrong. First, I like how you just ignored everything I said and directed me to something else entirely. Next, I have no idea the point you're trying to make with the quote you gave me. What Kwark said has nothing to do with who's capable or not capable. He's saying that being mentally handicapped means you're not that smart by definition, which isn't really an insult to mentally handicapped people. Whereas what you said implied that homosexuals are generally child molesters, which is definitely not in the definition of a child molester. I actually had to read what you said many times to figure out what you were trying to get at and then figured out that it was just a weak point. Finally, since the purpose of your initial post was to demod Kwark, and you've failed to convince anyone that could influence that, or rather anyone at all actually, I'd say you're losing the argument. The only place you're winning is inside your own head. I feel like my verbosity in the OP has led several, less capable minds astray. Allow me to answer your question in the simplest way I can: Kwark said it was okay that he insulted that individual, because he is fully capable. Kwark banned me for insulting homosexuals (even though I did not, but that's a separate matter). Homosexuals are fully capable. You are not homosexuals. Homosexuals are homosexuals. You are neversummer. An identity crisis like yours is really quite remarkable. Anyway... If I said "homosexuals are stupid" then that would be a homophobic comment. If I said "neversummer is stupid" then that would be an insult to you (although I would argue there is sufficient evidence for it to simply be a description at this point). Hopefully that clarifies it.
Clarifies nothing. Literally have no clue wtf you're talking about.
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Man, I tried to read the OP in a serious light, but it's worded so awkwardly formatted in a formal way that I kept thinking wtf is this HotBid? That and the separate reply for each quote lol, this formatting.
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I'd like to point out that the OP is a Logic Minor, but that he felt the argument wasn't that great so he PMed it. I'm sharing it because I think it's hilarious.
I do feel bad about it though.
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On October 25 2012 09:13 corumjhaelen wrote:
I'd like to point out that the OP is a Logic Minor, but that he felt the argument wasn't that great so he PMed it. I'm sharing it because I think it's hilarious.
I do feel bad about it though.
yea me being a logic minor is hilarious. Will really be a detriment to me when I take the LSAT this spring.
Edit: Spring, and fuck off, Frenchie.
User was banned for this post.
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On October 25 2012 09:14 neversummer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 09:13 corumjhaelen wrote:
I'd like to point out that the OP is a Logic Minor, but that he felt the argument wasn't that great so he PMed it. I'm sharing it because I think it's hilarious.
I do feel bad about it though. yea me being a logic minor is hilarious. Will really be a detriment to me when I take the LSAT this spring. Edit: Spring, and fuck off, Frenchie.
ugh, internet lawyers are the absolute worst. hate those dicks! ;-)
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EPT
