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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
Wriggles -> Tabi -> Aegis -> Banshee -> GG Standard clear should be finshed at 3.30 or so, with a good leash. Roam like a boss and be happy you got singed ult with 5 second down time. WQWE, R > E > W > Q EDIT: New build that works on all junglers, even rammus. Wriggles -> Hog -> Force of atmogs -> GG | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On October 14 2011 21:20 Zato-1 wrote: I haven't updated the OP yet, because I'd like feedback on how you guys think Rammus should be built before I do that. How's this going, Zato? To consolidate for my own sake, there's been a bit of Rammus chatter in the Graves & Riven general discussion threads as well as the TL B thread. Apparently Smash has been streaming some Rammus games (haven't been around at the right time so no idea re: builds etc), and in this week's Dignitas vs SK Rampage King of the Hill, Jatt played Rammus in the first game, building Wriggles=>Warmogs, Merc Treads and had purchased a Negatron cloak when the game ended; Snoopeh used a similar build in game two. Been mucking around with him this week running armor seals + quints, mres/level glyphs & attack speed marks; seems to work fairly consistently regardless of running 21/0/9, 0/21/9 or 1/13/16. I'll sporadically run into mana problems, especially if I'm donating the majority of blue buffs - not sure whether it's worth building a early Philo Stone, managing my mana better (less Powerballs in the jungle), or utilising some mana regen/level runes. Also, if you build a Philo Stone, how is Reverie on him? There are times I'd love to have a MS boost while still maintaining DBC if I'm at risk from serious AP burst on my way towards taunting an AD carry, etc. Atmogs seems to work out really well on him if you get it built, but Rammus' existing mid-game lull is exacerbated by the building-Atmogs mid-game lull ... best to rush Warmogs after Wriggle's, or build some sort of HoG/Zeal/Wit's End/etc in the interim? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Dan Dinh uses ArPen marks, Armor seals, MR/lvl glyphs, gp10 quints, and 0/21/9 masteries. He builds double gp5->Sunfire->Warmogs (but still starts cloth armor). | ||
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asianskill
United States289 Posts
Really like his build, other builds just don't have hp to make a difference in teamfights | ||
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HAL9OOO
United States176 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On October 31 2011 01:10 TheYango wrote: Saintvicious and Lapaka both use ArPen marks, Armor seals/quints, MR/lvl glyphs. Saint uses 1/13/16, while Lapaka uses 0/9/21. Both build Wriggle's->Aegis->Sunfire/Warmog/Atmas in some order. Dan Dinh uses ArPen marks, Armor seals, MR/lvl glyphs, gp10 quints, and 0/21/9 masteries. He builds double gp5->Sunfire->Warmogs (but still starts cloth armor). Are you sure about that? I heard Saint many times saying wrigglers is really not worth it on rammus and that he really doesn't like building it. What I saw him build was starting with cloth armor/5pot-->philo stone-->if things are going really well boots and Hog,if not boots-->Aegis-->Shurleyas. From than on he seems to prefer items with health(sunfire first) rather than just pure armor or magic ressist items and the reasoning being your W gives you insane amounts of armor anyways so health fits rammus perfectly.At least this is what I heard him say on his stream like few days ago. Also yea I agree that attack speed marks are the way to go with rammus. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On October 31 2011 04:33 TheKefka wrote: Are you sure about that? I heard Saint many times saying wrigglers is really not worth it on rammus and that he really doesn't like building it. What I saw him build was starting with cloth armor/5pot-->philo stone-->if things are going really well boots and Hog,if not boots-->Aegis-->Shurleyas. From than on he seems to prefer items with health(sunfire first) rather than just pure armor or magic ressist items and the reasoning being your W gives you insane amounts of armor anyways so health fits rammus perfectly.At least this is what I heard him say on his stream like few days ago. Also yea I agree that attack speed marks are the way to go with rammus. W gives both armor and mres, but just with the armor logic, i don't see how sunfire cape fits in, seeing as it gives armor. Also i do not see the point in buying anything but warmogs as your first item, having the same reason as you (W gives you a massive amount of mres and armor giving you a ton of EHP). | ||
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Alay
United States660 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/t8YEn.png) Sarah's Jungle Rammus Guide Introduction: Hello all! Rammus was the first champion I ever played, the first I ever purchased, and to this day my favorite champion. For me, it's been a very long road of trial and testing different builds, strategies, and patterns to learn how to squeeze every ounce of umph from this armadillo. I want to share this knowledge, and maybe even learn some new stuff my self along the way. There's a few things to keep in mind when reading this guide: 1) Rammus is a tank. You can build any champion any way, but at the end of the day he was designed to tank, and it's just what he excels at. This guide is designed with that in mind (Some silly builds with short explainations will be added too for that pubbing fun.) 2) Rammus is a powerful jungler. He's better off in the jungle than in a lane, because he's designed to gank. This guide will be focusing on jungling almost exclusively. 3) These are from my experience, my testing, and my opinion. If something works for you, and you like it better, then do that! This game is about strategy, and strategies change. Rammus Abilities Overview: Q: Powerball. Powerball is your mobility, and it's one of the reasons this champion is so potent. When activated you will slowly speed up to your maximum speed. It gives a small knockup effect and a slow on your target when you collide. It's useful for an early game nuke against enemy champions and creep camps, but it's also a real mana hog. The scaling is kinda meh into the late game, so it falls off quick in damage output. W: Defensive Ball Curl. This is your sustain ability. When activated Rammus curls up, gaining a fair amount of armor and magic resistance. You'll also return some damage when you're auto-attacked (like a mini-thornmail.) It's important to realize that this skill is pretty much the highest skill cap ability on the little guy. The more you play, the more you'll learn when and when not to curl, predicting spikes from AP mages. It lets you get away with some silly things sometimes. E: Puncturing Taunt. Taunt makes Rammus an amazing tank. At max level you will be able to hold someone attacking you for three, long, painful seconds. The ability also lowers their armor rating, so your team hits a little harder. This ability, when combined with the slow, makes Rammus such a great ganker. R: Tremors. A low cooldown/high reward ultimate. When activated Rammus does AOE damage every second for 8 seconds--best part is it hits towers! The cooldown is short enough that, with a little CDR, you can blow it on a creep camp or a minion wave without worrying too much about not having it. Runes/Masteries/Summoner Spells: For runes, I would suggest Flat Armor Seals, Scaling Magic Resistance Glyphs, Flat Health Quints, then either Attack Speed Marks, or Armor Penetration Marks. Flat Armor Marks are also viable. I've seen some players use scaling MP5 seals mixed with flat armor ones, but don't really like them personally. For masteries, I think 0/21/9 works best. In defense tree, you'll want Strength of Spirit full, Hardened Skin 3/3, Defensive Master 2/2, Veteran's Scars 4/4, Evasion 2/4, and Tenacity 1/1. In utility, you'll want Perseverence 3/3, Good Hands 1/3, Awareness 4/4, and Utility Mastery 1/2. You can spec into something like 0/20/10 if you really feel you need that 30% buff timer, but I've stopped doing that in favor of the more reliable 4% damage reduction. Smite: Required for Jungle Rammus. Flash: Probably has more utility on Rammus than most champions, because you can flash over creep waves during powerball to prevent interrupt. I'd say it's non-negotiable. Quick Guide: AS Marks, Armor Seals, Scaling MR Glyphs, Flat Health Quints, 0/21/9 masteries, 5x health potion + cloth armor start, first point in W. Blue -> Wolves -> Wraiths -> Red -> Golem -> Gank. Heart of Gold, Boots of Speed, Wriggle's Lantern. Jungle Overview: This guide will be making the assumption you have a general idea of the role of a jungler, what the buffs do, and a good idea of how much xp each camp gives. It will focus more on strategy. Jungle Rammus starts pretty much the same way always; 5x health potions, and a Cloth Armor. Pop a point in W. You'll want to start waddling your back end to blue buff. This is where the game starts dictating your build and jungle order. If the other team doesn't gank at blue: Talk your team into a strong leash, Then start auto attacking blue. When the leash ends, activate Defensive Ball Curl and keep auto atacking. If you're below 75% health before it's ready to smite, start running your first potion. When the blue golem is low enough, smite it, and put your second point in Q. From there, powerball to wolf camp, make sure to hit them all, then activate defensive ball curl and start attacking the big wolf. Walk over to wraith camp, powerball so you hit all of them, then curl and attack the big one. You'll be either running your first or second potion while on wraith camp. You'll be level three by now. You can either put a second point in W for a safer, easier, and cleaner jungle so you have a better time during early-mid game, or you can put a second point in Q if you want to get very aggressive early--though it's a bit risky! Walk over to red camp, powerball, defensive curl, and start attacking the large one. You'll be running your second and third potion here usually. Smite when he's low enough. Mini-golems is the last on your jungle tour. Powerball into them, curl, and you know the rest. From here, you'll be level 4, and can put your first point into E so you're ready to gank! Now comes the toughest question of the game for you: Do you gank now, and try to make that over extending champion pay, or do you recall and get boots before you gank? The quick gank is incredibly powerful on Rammus--he's even capable of jungling fast enough to out level middle. However, without boots it's harder to pull out. Run that 5th pot and go gank if you decide to, or blue pill back and pick up a ward, some potions, and boots. If the other team ganks at blue: If you end up losing the safety of a blue, you may want to adjust to a safer jungle. I general go with a Wolf Camp start, smite blue wraith, clear wraith camp, double golems, back and buy a vampiric scepter, then do the standard jungle line above. You'll probably be forced into a wriggle's here. (Read below) Your goal early game will be to get a heart of gold somewhat fast, have enough wards to stay safe, potions to stay active, and map presence enough to help your team. It's a hard balance to keep. The second major choice of the game is your early game build. Ideally speaking, you're going to want a Heart of Gold, a Catalyst the Protector, and Boots of Speed. The Heart of Gold gives you a strong health backing (Rammus' biggest issue) and some gold generation while you're out of the jungle. The boots of speed are enough to keep you up with your opponents and ganking them. The Catalyst is your main sustain, and opens up so many options for Rammus (most importantly, an early Banshee's veil, and the ability to give your blue to middle mage for pretty much the rest of the game.) The major choice in this is if you want to get aggressive early, and possibly pay for it later, or have a stronger mid game with a slower early. This choice can be summarized in one sentence; Do I get a Wriggle's Lantern or not? Wriggles is an amazing item for a jungler, and can speed up the jungle of rammus by quite a bit. It allows him to take a solo dragon in a realistic amount of time. Invade a little better. Do more early damage. Have an extra free ward, and health sustain through your jungle. The down side is, you have later defense items, and Wriggles does practically nothing for you past the early game--the sustain it gives is outshined by the armor/health regen, the damage it gives is outdone by your armor bonuses to damage and the fact that you're a tank, and the small amount of armor it has is pointless over other better tanky items. A lot of people swear by wriggles and would buy it every game. Others would say it's a horrible item on him. It's neither of these, because it's an amazing item in some situations, and a horrible one in others. The choice of if you buy it or not and how useful it would be is really summarized by an "It depends." When and when not to go the Wriggle's route is something that you can only really grow to feel through game experience as Rammus. The Mid Game and You: Basically, your goal is to get to three items: Banshee's Veil, Randuin's Omen, and Mercury Treads. With this you can slap around anyone, have great health to back it up, be credit to team in fights, and still scary 1v1. The order in which you upgrade your Catalyst, Heart of Gold, and Boots of Speed are dependent on what's going on in the game, who's getting kills and what their team composition is. If it's an ability power heavy team, the quick Negatron cloak is a no brainer. If they have two ranged carries that got a couple kills under their belt, Randuin's is a better choice. If you're getting CC'd to death, Treads is probably a better choice. It really comes down to who you want to pick a fight with, and who isn't much of a thread. Often I find myself repeating the same question when I have to pick what item I commit to: "Who am I most afraid of on the other team right now?" This isn't a question of what to worry about if X or Y happens, but at this exact moment, who is the scariest champion on the field. More often than not, this buying pattern has worked out for me. Once mid game rolls around, you should be less worried about ganking for kills and more about pushing down towers, and getting team fights going. Your damage will start dropping off at about this point, so it's time to become more of a true tank. If you can get a mage to blow their load on you at the start of a team fight, you've done your job quite well! Taunting targets is also much more of a hard choice now. The AD carries are usually the best choice, because you can curl and poke them back, but holding a mage from bursting while your team nukes them can also be the difference maker. Above all, communicate, ping, shout at your teammates who you're going to make life hell for! Item Guide and my 2 cents on each (Aka the late game): After the mid game, what you go for is pretty much up to you and what you feel would suit your team best. Health stays an important aspect of Rammus, since he has very low innate health, though your Randuin's Omen and Banshee's Veil should cover most of what you'll totally need to have. Armor Items: Aegis of the Legion: A really good team item, but better on an off-tank/support than on Rammus. I generally don't buy one, and it's not the best option after the early/mid game. Frozen Heart: This can be good in certain situations, but the lack of health on it really hurts. Mana tends to be a lesser problem in the late game, and it's just so expensive. I think out of all my games played, I've maybe bought this once for Rammus. The synergy between Randuin's Active/Passive and Frozen Heart should not be underestimated though. Guardian Angel: A fun item, but not one I generally go for. The passive really isn't worth it much for a tank, because generally you'll either get out alive, or will die almost last. The stats are also priced expensive, so you're better off with other items. Sunfire Cape: Another overcosted item. The aura isn't really that useful for Rammus, but if you really desperately need more health, I'd turn to this before something like a Warmogs. Randuin's is simply cheaper, gives more, and is overall more useful. Thornmail: Thornmail is one of those reserve items, like the Quicksilver Sash (explained a few paragraphs down) that should be kept in the bag of tricks. Generally speaking, it's not that useful on Rammus because it doesn't give any health, and only a lot of armor--essentially you'd be buying a very expensive passive for him, but that passive can recover a game! It should be brought out when a hypercarry starts hypercarrying a little too good--Tryndamere, Master Yi, and Kog'Maw can all get a few kills too far ahead and start demolishing house. With Thornmail, you can pretty much taunt, curl, and shut them down completely for a quick focus explode. However, it should generally only be bought when an AD carry is wrecking even through your Randuin's. Zhonya's Hourglass: Not worth it on Rammus, unless going for an AP tank build (read towards the end.) Magic Resist Items: Abyssal Scepter: It's at best okay on Rammus. The aura can help your team and make you hit just a tiny bit harder, but the AP is barely worth it, and there's better MR items. Force of Nature: probably the best go-to item if you're against a very AP heavy team, or they have a really fed nuker. The passive from it doesn't help Rammus so much because he has low health, but the movement speed, huge MR and health regen are pretty sweet. This is probably one of the best choices for late game against a comp with two nukers or one fed nuker. It will keep you in the game much longer. Hexdrinker: Never actually tried it. Don't think it'd be very good for him since Attack Damage is pretty meh, and past the early game it falls off hard. Quick Silver Sash: It's that item you rarely get, but should often ask yourself "Should I have a QSS?" The ability to cleanse can save your rear a lot, and it's a very cheap and effective MR item. It shuts down champions like Veigar very hard too. I'd only recommend if the situation calls for it. Spirit Visage: A tiny bit of MR, some CDR, and a healing buff. Not overly useful, but the situation where it's nice does come up in very very rare cases. Wit's End: A poor item if you're straight tanking, a godly item if you're doing a tanky-DPS Atmogs build. Health Items: Frozen Mallet: Lots of health, but only really useful if you're doing a tanky-dps Atmogs build. Rylai's Crystal Scepter: An expensive, and often times silly pick, it's actually crazy potent on Rammus! Health is one of his biggest issues, and this item patches that up very nice. The AP on it doesn't do a whole lot for you, but the slow on magic damage is insane! Powerball slows targets to a near crawl, while anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves inside your tremors tick will feel like they walked in super-glue. Defensive Ball Curl procs also cause the on-slow effect, so in a team fight if someone is stupid enough or unfortunate enough to attack you, they'll be slowed as well! This item is a really hidden gem for the champion, and is slowly being something I strongly consider after my usual core is done. Rod of Ages: A very expensive item, and not wholey useful for him. The only reason this should ever be used is if you're going for an AP Rammus nuker, which is more of a goofy/gimmick build than a real one. Warmogs: This item comes down to a decision in building. it's incredibly expensive, and with Rammus' poor farming abilities, it's very long to build up. However, if you're going for this item, you'll probably want to do a straight health tanky-dps build to make it viable. This progresses you more from a real tank into a damage dealer and a pain to kill. I'd suggest skipping this for the most part. Why not Ninja Tabi?: This is debated quite a lot by Rammus players, some swear by it, others think it garbage. Again, I like the middle road. This item can help you dodge huge hits from fed carries, and give you more tanky ability by sheer avoidance. However, they have issues. The first issue is the lack of tenacity, and the need to put it somewhere else in your build if you want that same effect. The second big issue is how defensive ball curl functions--If you dodge an attack, DBC will NOT return damage. This is fine and dandy usually in team fights, but early jungling this can cause some headaches. Overall, I think this item is the better boots to get if you're laning as Rammus, or playing him as an atmogs tanky-dps, rather than a true tank. In lane the creap attacks plus the nimbleness box makes you faster and earier to grab people early. When jungling, they're just generally outshined by Merc Treads. Final Notes: Welp, that's my rough guide. It's by no means thoroughly detailed, but it should cover what you need to know to play the champion and start learning the ins and outs. If you're looking for more of a general Rammus guide on moves and skills, there's a great guide by Bguggs that should be easy to find on google. Before I end this, here's a quick rundown of things to always keep in mind when playing: #Always make sure you have a good idea of where your opponents are, and are safe enough. Don't whine "No MIAs!" if you die from overextending like an idiot. #Always make sure dragon is warded! Pink ward preferred. #Make sure Baron is usually warded mid game, and always late game. #Don't ever let anyone tell you that you should always get X item on Y champion. The only thing you should ever buy on every champion is wards  #Did I mention warding is important? Well it is. #When you die, ask yourself "What did I do wrong that I could have changed" before you say "WHY IS [other player on team] SO HORRIBLE?!" You'll learn more that way. #Remember to have fun, it's a game! #Warding is important. Some different builds: Tanky-DPS Rammus: Warmog's Armor, Atma's Impaler, Ninja Tabi, Frozen Mallet, Sunfire Cape. Scare squishies and hit like a bulldozer! AP Nuker: Rod of Ages, Zonya's Hourglass, Abyssal Scepter, Rylai's Crystal Scepter, Rabbadon's Death Cap, Socerer's Shoes. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ehlr5.jpg) | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On October 31 2011 05:11 Sponkz wrote: W gives both armor and mres, but just with the armor logic, i don't see how sunfire cape fits in, seeing as it gives armor. Also i do not see the point in buying anything but warmogs as your first item, having the same reason as you (W gives you a massive amount of mres and armor giving you a ton of EHP). The reason you go sunfire cape is because it gives you health,armor and aditional amounts of aoe damage that you already dish out with W and R so it was always a logical part of my build kinda.I don't know,Sunfire is always my first option after I finish my starting build off,its not that expensive and gives you everything you would want on a rammus.But yea you might have a point with going with warmongs as the first choice I'll try it out. | ||
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Accelerant
20 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On October 31 2011 18:15 TheKefka wrote: The reason you go sunfire cape is because it gives you health,armor and aditional amounts of aoe damage that you already dish out with W and R so it was always a logical part of my build kinda.I don't know,Sunfire is always my first option after I finish my starting build off,its not that expensive and gives you everything you would want on a rammus.But yea you might have a point with going with warmongs as the first choice I'll try it out. Sunfire Cape's passive grows weaker as the game goes on, and armor shouldnt be a needed thing that early on, if you went on and bought wriggles. Later on, when you need extra defensive stats (i.e armor or mres) you can either buy a chain vest and/or negatron before finishing atmas, which will give you some insane tanking capabilities along with damage. | ||
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Alay
United States660 Posts
On October 31 2011 18:47 Accelerant wrote: LoL do you really need to analyse health items like RoA.. rofl :D Of course! RoA -> Zhonya's -> Rylai's -> Deathcap is a perfectly viable* troll build when your team in 17-1 by the 15 minute mark. 1K powerballs become very serious business xD Mostly though, I wanted to cover everything. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On October 30 2011 22:25 Haasts wrote: How's this going, Zato? To consolidate for my own sake, there's been a bit of Rammus chatter in the Graves & Riven general discussion threads as well as the TL B thread. Apparently Smash has been streaming some Rammus games (haven't been around at the right time so no idea re: builds etc), and in this week's Dignitas vs SK Rampage King of the Hill, Jatt played Rammus in the first game, building Wriggles=>Warmogs, Merc Treads and had purchased a Negatron cloak when the game ended; Snoopeh used a similar build in game two. Been mucking around with him this week running armor seals + quints, mres/level glyphs & attack speed marks; seems to work fairly consistently regardless of running 21/0/9, 0/21/9 or 1/13/16. I'll sporadically run into mana problems, especially if I'm donating the majority of blue buffs - not sure whether it's worth building a early Philo Stone, managing my mana better (less Powerballs in the jungle), or utilising some mana regen/level runes. Also, if you build a Philo Stone, how is Reverie on him? There are times I'd love to have a MS boost while still maintaining DBC if I'm at risk from serious AP burst on my way towards taunting an AD carry, etc. Atmogs seems to work out really well on him if you get it built, but Rammus' existing mid-game lull is exacerbated by the building-Atmogs mid-game lull ... best to rush Warmogs after Wriggle's, or build some sort of HoG/Zeal/Wit's End/etc in the interim? Welcome to TeamLiquid, Haasts! I've been playing some Rammus games, reading posts, watching streams, doing math (such as IE vs. Phantom Dancer vs. Triforce as an endgame DPS item for a Rammus that already has Atmog's - Phantom Dancer wins hands down), trying builds, and thinking a bit in order to transition from a full tank guide to a tanky DPS guide. I've updated the OP (changes are listed in changelog at the very end of the first post), added the new guide on this page as a link to the OP, and am pretty happy with the end result. I don't like Philo stone -> Shurelia's on Rammus because while it's good for your team, it gimps your own performance- making you fall behind on the arms race as a tanky DPS champion. Mana5/level seals take care of my mana issues, so that's what I roll with instead. The reason why building tanky DPS is so important is that otherwise, you pose no threat and can be safely ignored after your initial CC train, even by enemy glass cannons; you deal little damage, and because you deal little damage enemies feel like attacking you is a waste of time and completely ignore all those tanky stats you've been building up. If you're tanky and also a threat, then you're far more likely to be attacked, putting those defensive stats to good use and ultimately doing a better job as a tank, by actually taking damage for your team. Let me know of any parts of the guide you guys disagree with or want me to elaborate on. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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LlOoKkIi
Korea (South)473 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:04 zulu_nation8 wrote: do you always w last for combos? like taunt first, then ult, then w? or taunt then w if no ult? I ult on my way in on the powerball (you can turn it on without interrupting the powerball), then E, then W. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:11 barbsq wrote: worst feeling ever: flash powerball into enemy team, 1v5 for about 3-4 secs, find out that your team is too pussy to follow you, despite forcing multiple ults........ should've just solo pentakilled them. you are the moose after all. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 01 2011 04:11 barbsq wrote: worst feeling ever: flash powerball into enemy team, 1v5 for about 3-4 secs, find out that your team is too pussy to follow you, despite forcing multiple ults........ I have a feeling you went out of it alive right? | ||
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