Meh, you can't compare rammus ult to fiddle. Fiddles is much faster, he has a free flash on cast, has a much bigger radius and buikds AP.
Rammus is going to have a hard time getting his taunt on the carries and thus getting in range to ult them. His sustained damage is okay but he doesn't have the burst and mobility to be good enough. I still maintain he;s one of the weakest junglers that aren't troll picks.
He's much better in solo queue where the picking people off thing is much easier and thats what rammus excels at.

Southlight

United States11761 Posts

September 07 2011 15:17 GMT

#102

He doesn't need burst, he literally smacks people down like Warwick. And his taunt really works on anything, you don't NEED to taunt ranged AD. He plays very much like Warwick, except with a nice chaser, a disable on lower CD, and a giant AoE.

Edit:
People don't play him because he's hard and because like Shaco he's reliant on a monster early game to offset his bad mid-game. But he's one of the most wicked early and late-game junglers. And you can rag about solo q all you want but until you're elite-tier 5rank he's perfectly viable.

arnath

United States1317 Posts

September 07 2011 15:36 GMT

#103

Why is Rammus' late-game awesome? I don't disagree that he's really good and probably the best early game ganker but I feel like he doesn't scale very well.

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

September 07 2011 16:33 GMT

#104

Rammus gets a ton of free defenses and then also some AD on top of that. Lategame with say Wriggle's Atmogs Triforce he is a monster. And since you kinda rely on the ranged AD to kill him but DBC just kills the ranged AD instead you are forced to drop your magic damage on him while the ranged AD still can't target anyone else.

Guess I could play him again now that my build isn't considered troll anymore...

Southlight

United States11761 Posts

September 07 2011 16:38 GMT

#105

lol, yeah, basically he has one of the highest tanking abilities of all heroes, one of the highest base damage outputs of tanks (even trumps Amumu when given comparable EHP), and can solo takedown most heroes. His mid-game blows though because his initiate makes him take too much damage (the delay between pball and dbc activation really hurts). But once he gets his farm he's like a god.

spinesheath

Germany8679 Posts

September 07 2011 16:54 GMT

#106

I wouldn't try to initiate midgame as Rammus, and instead peel for your carries. Midgame fights have too much burst damage for jungle Rammus to be in the middle of everything.
Getting the transitions between the different playstyles right can be tricky though.

Southlight

United States11761 Posts

September 07 2011 17:02 GMT

#107

Indeed. As said, he's hard, and his midgame sucks. He can peel, but it's temporary, and the rest of his effect on fights must come from his damage, but his level 2 ult isn't that great (and midgame it's hard to even get to that level 2 ult), so yeah.

NightWalks

Latvia252 Posts

September 08 2011 06:27 GMT

#108

I spend most of mid game walking arround with ranged ad taking poking down towers .
Skills WQWEEEEEWW.... Buy Giants belt -> W -> R -> Tank tower while range AD pew pew then retreat if to many enemy aprouches. Rinse and repeat .

I haven't taken razor on Rammus so far ( will try run some game ) , but he clears reasonably fast for me . Only times i wish i could kill faster is when atempting dragon or trying to steel enemy blue . I opt to build Aegis from cloth as i spend moust of time ganking and trying to create advantage for my 4x peeps so they can roll midgame while i provide meatshield + CC where after Aegis i pick up belt to make W baller .

I find ramus great when it comes to stoping fed champs like Katarina or Fiddle aka all champs that deal massive aoe dmg , but have to get close to enemy team to max out dps .
Example : Kat shumpo in to R. Rammus Q flash her to stop ult and avoid colision with other shit then E for 3 seconds so your team bursts her down . Activate R W to add your own dmg contribution.

Southlight

United States11761 Posts

September 08 2011 09:50 GMT

#109

Rammus' first run is notoriously speedy (he ploughs through minicreep) but his second run on buff creep is just as notorious slow... which is why Razor and then Wriggle (so that he doesn't lose hp) is really nice. This keeps him among the top clear speeds and allows for really good counterjungling, as well as giving him ridiculous base combat prowess, such that he rarely, rarely loses to people 1v1, especially ranged AD. Rammus with Wriggles beats a ranged AD with BF Sword straight up basically, without even using his ult.

icemanzdoinwork

447 Posts

September 09 2011 07:55 GMT

#110

I'm enjoying the dps rammus.

I go

4 arp reds/5 as reds/9 armor yellow/9 as blues/3 armor quints

11-3-16
Armpen/Armor/movespeed/flash/gold

Cloth +5
Wriggles>Boots>Zeal>Mercs>Belt>Negatron+Armor>Atmas>Fon and Frozen Mallet>Phantom Dancer

Start blue or Double Golems for lvl 2 gank

Mid game is weak until you can get belt. Once you get negatron+atmas you're terrifying again.

Late game is just wonderful. No one escapes and if you take the burst or cc, you did your job (and probably still alive.)

I'm going to try ram with cho top. I think that could be a nice combo for duo Q.

CrisisNOOB

United States39 Posts

September 23 2011 02:44 GMT

#111

Rammus shines a lot better in Dominion. Great Champ and I get 1st place many times with him

Craton

United States17233 Posts

September 23 2011 05:23 GMT

#112

Rammus should not always go mercs. Ninja Tabi are an excellent boot for him, especially with Eleisa's Miracle giving so much regen + 35 tenacity. I've been favoring this a lot lately. It's very common to have 2-3 auto-attack heavy champs on the enemy team.

Jerubaal

United States7684 Posts

September 23 2011 21:31 GMT

#113

I have to say, his taunt is one of the more hilarious things in the game, especially to keep several enemies together. Two bad guys running in opposite directions? Taunt one, pop powerball at the other. It sucks for Tryndamere to pop Undying Rage only to be taunt-pulled back into the enemy group.

Tooplark

United States3977 Posts

September 23 2011 21:50 GMT

#114

Rylai Rammus so fun. He does pretty well with ap and ad items... I SMELL A GUNBLADE

Alay

United States660 Posts

September 27 2011 19:21 GMT

#115

I can't decide if I like Wriggles opening or Catalyst -> Veil opening on Rammus for jungle. Wriggles just makes the jungle so much easier and efficient, the free ward is good too, but the veil ends up being better for mid-game.

freelander

Hungary4707 Posts

September 27 2011 19:58 GMT

#116

On September 24 2011 06:31 Jerubaal wrote:
I have to say, his taunt is one of the more hilarious things in the game, especially to keep several enemies together. Two bad guys running in opposite directions? Taunt one, pop powerball at the other. It sucks for Tryndamere to pop Undying Rage only to be taunt-pulled back into the enemy group.

well dodge is counterintuitive on him because he reflects damage

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 27 2011 20:19 GMT

#117

On September 28 2011 04:21 Alay wrote:
I can't decide if I like Wriggles opening or Catalyst -> Veil opening on Rammus for jungle. Wriggles just makes the jungle so much easier and efficient, the free ward is good too, but the veil ends up being better for mid-game.

Wriggle's is hands down better. You clear the jungle faster, which means more time spent counter-jungling (more gold/exp) or more time spent ganking/counter-ganking. It also means less money spent on wards (you are warding with a Catalyst -> Veil build, right?).

Also, Banshee's Veil is 1.1k more gold than Wriggle's, so you need to compare Wriggle's + Negatron/Catalyst/whatever else you want to build versus a completed Veil.

Juicyfruit

Canada5484 Posts

September 27 2011 20:30 GMT

#118

lol I just get a philo stone and chug blue potions, when I have to, while building up HP. Wolves and wraiths take no time at all to kill with or without wriggles, and twin golems usually get smited. I usually end up using my ultimate to kill red/blue if I'm in a hurry -_-

I dislike getting wriggles on rammus just because it screws up his EHP too much since that's 1600 worth of HP you aren't getting, but if you get ganks off early on, it would be a good investment just for the ability to counterjungle the enemy. If I don't get a kill by level 6, I wouldn't think about wriggles.

Seuss

United States10536 Posts

September 27 2011 22:04 GMT

#119

I like Wriggle's because without it you have no buff/dragon control as Rammus. Free wards are always awesome.

I also find building pure health to be awkward. Unless you're building to cap CDR or hog blue buff you have very lengthy periods where you aren't in DBC, during which you're vulnerable. Even with capped CDR you have nearly two and a half seconds of vulnerability. Saying Wriggle's is 1600g of HP you aren't getting is a little disingenuous as your build already spends 800g on a Philo Stone (which also isn't HP).

sylverfyre

United States8298 Posts

September 27 2011 22:14 GMT

#120

I find that since +HP defensive items like sunfire, banshee, aegis, warmogs are so good on Rammus (+HP synergizes with his W exceptionally well), Atma's Impaler is a nice way of rounding out my item list, giving some further armor while significantly boosting damage output. Typically a late game item, but you can often afford it since rammus is quick to get to a sidelane that has a big creep wave built up to clear it with W or R before it does damage to the tower.