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On November 16 2010 16:23 r33k wrote:
The OP could use some cleanups and some additions after 5 pages of the thread...
I find it pretty hilarious that people have so much to discuss over such a retarded easy character tho :S
Also as other said nobody rushes bloodrazor ever unless they are being fed superhard. Tbh I don't ever feel the need to get it, it's more of something I get once I feel that I can ult without exploding. As for tank items WW can use anything aswell.
Actually your post is the exact reason we have this thread, to clear up misconceptions like this. Warwick is easy and really strong so the strength of the character and his retarded early/midgame advantages will carry you through most games regardless of what you do. When you get to the higher levels it starts becoming a different issue though. Brees, Mogwai and Ezpz changed my perspective on warwick, I used to think like you do until each of them taught me things about higher level play that basically showed me I wasn't really winning my games on skill but enemies being retarded.
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What are those things? Enlighten us
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On November 16 2010 16:30 UniversalSnip wrote:
What are those things? Enlighten us
Rely on MS before lv6, rely on ult and chasing when they're falling back after lv6. Hard.
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Simple things like rushing bloodrazors being crucial because of the timing on them. You don't want to get them after your tank items because then you can't disappear at 11 and kill baron. Item choice post madreds isn't really hard but it is worth discussing, like when to get randuins and when to get double negatron. People count creep kills much better as you get higher in level so they'll know if you started at wraiths or small golems or blue buff and sometimes it's worthwhile to do things like kill two wolves and then go blue buff to throw them off your jungling path. Dragons are a gamble and pretty much impossible to get because everyone will keep checking it even if it's not warded if your CS isnt rising constantly. They'll also be more aware of when you're ganking for the same reasons, like if you've got 15 cs they'll know you have blue + red and you're about to gank, and they probably will play passive and watch dragon until you start killing creeps again, in which case they can know where you are from how many creeps you kill.
Like I said, you guys are focusing too much on what warwick does as a champion and not enough on how to play him.
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On November 16 2010 16:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I used to think like you do until each of them taught me things about higher level play that basically showed me I wasn't really winning my games on skill but enemies being retarded.
QFT, This is how LoL works for everything below 1500-1600 ELO. It's not about which team is better, it's which team is less bad.
imoimoimoimo
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Since Pantheon is perma-banned atm, I've been playing a lot of WW and feel like sharing my thoughts on him recently:
9/0/21 with 2% crit, improved smite, 3% CDR and 15% MPen. It hurts your jungle speed by a couple seconds, but it's worth it :p.
AS Red/Quints, Armor Yellows, Flat CDR Blues.
open longsword vs. a poor counter jungler, cloth + 2 hp pots + ward vs. a strong counter jungler.
with longsword you can try to cheese a fast dragon with blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> red -> gols -> razors -> dragon, with cloth, open small gols -> wraiths -> wolves -> blue -> small gols -> red -> wraiths -> wolves, warding dragon semi quickly vs. guys who are good at it. Any early ganks should pay for a vision ward at dragon to make it safer.
Here's the item build (items on the same level have interchangable timings depending on the game but I prefer left items before right items):
razors + boots
Spirit Visage + HoG + Merc Treads
Banshee's Veil + Randuin's Omen + Bloodrazors
Bloodrazors are a really low priority with Visage + Blue Buff/Omen because you have maxed CDR for lots of Qs. You also typically get to ult at the start of the fight and then again to catch the last person when you're tying up the loose ends, which is huge. The reason I like this a lot better is that when you don't have Red Buff, it's basically impossible to stick to a fleeing carry and attack them a bunch. By building like this, when you have teamfights after it's become time to give your carry red buff, you can still chase people down with animation canceled Qs and just stick to them with your E.
Skills look like: QWQEQR -> R > Q > E > W. You don't need W when you're not auto-attacking that much and as I said above, E is what lets you stick to and kill people, so you want that extra speed and range.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
interesting seeing how other people play warwick, I dont even level E
and i get bloodrazor's asap.
also run armor pen
1-16-13 masteries
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United States37500 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:49 Brees wrote:
interesting seeing how other people play warwick, I dont even level E
and i get bloodrazor's asap.
also run armor pen
1-16-13 masteries
You don't like to chase? :[ W is overrated imo. Unless you're running some gimmicky 5 smite team with a Sivir ulti, lawlz.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:52 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 07:49 Brees wrote:
interesting seeing how other people play warwick, I dont even level E
and i get bloodrazor's asap.
also run armor pen
1-16-13 masteries You don't like to chase? :[ W is overrated imo. Unless you're running some gimmicky 5 smite team with a Sivir ulti, lawlz.
there's a reason why im always way higher level then the other jungler. I play farm style warwick, i dont chase shit, and if i do gank my ghost is definitely up
thats why i dont run atk speeds as well, they are garbage runes overall
usually lvl 6-7 before i make my first trip back, as a result ive had dragon cheesed on me before but i feel that is way more bot lane's responsibility then the jungler. they have 2 there so they can ward whenever, i dont see a reason to make your jungler go back early and gimp him
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United States37500 Posts
On December 07 2010 07:55 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 07:52 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 07 2010 07:49 Brees wrote:
interesting seeing how other people play warwick, I dont even level E
and i get bloodrazor's asap.
also run armor pen
1-16-13 masteries You don't like to chase? :[ W is overrated imo. Unless you're running some gimmicky 5 smite team with a Sivir ulti, lawlz. there's a reason why im always way higher level then the other jungler. I play farm style warwick, i dont chase shit, and if i do gank my ghost is definitely up thats why i dont run atk speeds as well, they are garbage runes overall usually lvl 6-7 before i make my first trip back, as a result ive had dragon cheesed on me before but i feel that is way more bot lane's responsibility then the jungler. they have 2 there so they can ward whenever, i dont see a reason to make your jungler go back early and gimp him
Why max W first but no AS runes? That's like going half/half on your ideal.
Farm WW but doesn't want to AS runes. Doesn't advocate chasing but you get ArmorPen?
Wouldn't true afk farm WW be AS Red/Quints and max W? ArmorPen doesn't help in the jungle afaik.
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APen does help against jungle creeps, they all have armor. I can't say whether it helps more than ASpeed though since I don't have the runes to test.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On December 07 2010 08:02 crate wrote:
APen does help against jungle creeps, they all have armor. I can't say whether it helps more than ASpeed though since I don't have the runes to test.
this ^ armor pen + the increased attack speed is infinitely more effective then straight attack speed, in fights, your ult, etc everything. attack speed runes are soooooo bad except for udyr.
and durp forgot the most important part, your W benefits your entire team
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It's on the whole team IMO. I cheese dragon a lot and I always think that all players should be diligent about checking Jungle CS routinely to see suspiciously quiet CS for dragon cheese. I mean, really predictable timings too... fucking 15 CS Amumu/WW stays at 15 CS for a minute, you know you just gave up dragon for not checking 10 seconds ago. It always pisses me off when I ping like crazy from somewhere in the jungle for someone to check dragon asap and then they go like 15 seconds later to see Udyr running away from dead dragon.
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I like HP/level yellows on warwick more than armor yellows now, mostly to get extra good value out of the double-negatron or cheap armor items that I eventually end up building.
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Armor Yellows are 100% about staying safe vs. counter jungling early. I can understand not wanting them, but that's my reasoning.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
thats my runepage,
armor pen red
hp per level yellow
CD blue
HP quints
I never go below 3/4th hp (start at 700hp lvl 1)
funniest game recently (redtooth duo'd with me so he might remember)
the other team's poppy and shen spent a lot of the game counter jungling me and after all was said and done I was lvl 10 and they were both level 7 lol.
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WW with defensive masteries stays so high on hp for all of jungling :p. My mastery setup is much much more about late game.
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I run 1/8/21 but I'm thinking about switching over to 9/0/21. I really think Strength of Spirit is valuable throughout the whole game, but I'm not sure if it's better than the pen. I advocate a full aspd page, but I don't test anything so I'm sure there's a more optimal mix of pen/dmg/aspd as far as jungle times go.
What makes a big difference to me is that late game, when I'm 18 with bloodrazors, I'm putting out more damage than warwicks with armor pages and pen pages because each attack hits a proc.
And there are some of those games where you just get into the middle of a 5v5 and completely lose track of what's going on, and your aspd saves you because of your passive and bloodrazors chewing through enemies while Q is down.
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On December 07 2010 08:04 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 08:02 crate wrote:
APen does help against jungle creeps, they all have armor. I can't say whether it helps more than ASpeed though since I don't have the runes to test. this ^ armor pen + the increased attack speed is infinitely more effective then straight attack speed, in fights, your ult, etc everything. attack speed runes are soooooo bad except for udyr. and durp forgot the most important part, your W benefits your entire team
since the arPen nerfs AS marks and AD quints give the highest average dps vs neutrals right now
whether or not you want to use flat AD quints for more dps is up to you though
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=304909
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theres a lot of ways to build ww. if i had more rune pages id have at least 3 dedicated to him
-one for fast dragon(like .. done at 4min, start at level 3) Hell why not even take flash and sit behind dragon while doing it. it would be important to know smite dmg at level 3 to dragon.
-one similar to brees ww when lanes seem tough and they can counterjungle
-a page with lots of mres/lvl
my current ww rune page/masteries is a combination of all of these,
slightly delayed dragon ~4;30
a little movespeed and utility for ganking with armor ylws to just be high hp
(armor ylws allow me to kill 2 small wolves so it looks like im doing minigolems then go blue buff (perfectly at 1;55 no delay), pulling back blue buff+ hp pot when theres danger)
a little mres
to be honest i prefer this because if i need to gank i can gank, if i need to dragon i can dragon, if twitch sits behind me and tries to gank me at blue im ok , although usually the 2 cs tricks them.
For example, shaco stole my red one game, he wouldve almost certainly done more but then he saw my cs go to 2 and choose not to box the brush leading to my wraiths, etc etc.
Some olafs also like to do blue wolves (your wraiths) then gank you in that brush (hi nintendudex)
i run a variety of "playstyles" now
if theres too much cc , razors pickaxe into tank. Armor pen runes would be ideal because u wont have br for a long time
if there's no cc or they are a very tank heavy team, straight BR no questions, atk speed runes would be more ideal here
not really sure if theres a build thats always 100% best
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EPT
