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On June 08 2011 00:07 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 00:24 Mogwai wrote:
flash ignite. if I wanted to jungle at high hp, I'd pick Nocturne or Xin.
lanewick with double philostone is HILARIOUS btw. He makes hextech Vlad's sustainability look like a joke. I'm in love with chalice on WW vs any kind of AP lane. Never oom = never out of health anyway. Why would you get philos if for WW the bottleneck is almost always his mana, but never his health? (Yeah, I know, you luv dem philos. =P)
because chalice without base mana regen doesn't do much. Also gold/10.
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On June 08 2011 01:24 Southlight wrote:TOO plays differently, unless you're trying to imitate his playstyle you're not gonna get why he does what he does. For example: Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 00:07 r.Evo wrote:WW needs less than a full armor page to get full sustainability He doesn't give a shit about "full sustainability" nor does he care about pure speed (in which you'd just run ~18arp ~18% aspd or some similar variation).
I'd consider myself a fanboy and 98% of his stuff makes perfect sense and is very easily emulated if you simply listen to some of his explainations. However e.g. the full armor page means he
a) Wants max flat armor vs champs-
b) Doesn't care that he doesn't even need full armor page on ww and just rolls with it 'cause he's used to it.
Same with the 26 total ArPen over his normal 24. Imho he just doesn't care about small stuff like that/forgot that he has 16 in offense. A lot of his videos have small mistakes like that in them (like perseverance over good hands for example).
However, you also could enlighten us on what exactly he does differently.
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Unless you know all the counterjungle timings and shit like he does and put them to use in every game as often as possible, generally you're not playing to exactly what he is intending. It's extremely evident with what I've heard to be his Noc jungle build in which he runs the opposite of what most people advocate (heavy offense), instead running 21 util because it's more disruptive to opponents, early jungling speed be damned. The vast, vast majority of junglers even uptoward to my current rating level are dreadful at jungling and have no idea how to counterjungle, instead just "winging it" and thus are much better served running standard speed/sustain builds, hence where the difference in rune/mastery/etc. begins to arise.
Edit:
TL;DR different types of jungling paths and jungle encounters favor different types of rune/mastery setups, Turkey who's a much better jungler than I runs a bizarre AD MSPD ArP quints setup and I have no clue why he's settled on it (on all his junglers!) for instance.
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and I do bread and butter speed builds on pretty much every jungler.
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On June 08 2011 02:24 Mogwai wrote:
and I do bread and butter speed builds on pretty much every jungler.
And it works perfectly fine!
Edit
On a slightly more amusing discovery and helpful note, with 18Arp 18%aspd (I'm sure similar runesets work) and 21/0/9 (x/x/21 works too) you can open Cloth x5pots and open on their Lizard without using Smite, smite blue wraith and kill 3 little wraiths, and sit at wraith bush for their jungler to walk in and you'd be at full hp. A good majority of junglers end up relatively weak on this transition so you can catch them and send them home and jostle them out of rhythm. We tested vs Olaf and it kills Olaf if he tries to stand and fight, even at level 2. Was pretty close even if Olaf takes Exhaust, which is pretty amazing.
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United States37500 Posts
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On June 08 2011 02:27 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:24 Mogwai wrote:
and I do bread and butter speed builds on pretty much every jungler. And it works perfectly fine! Edit On a slightly more amusing discovery and helpful note, with 18Arp 18%aspd (I'm sure similar runesets work) and 21/0/9 (x/x/21 works too) you can open Cloth x5pots and open on their Lizard without using Smite, smite blue wraith and kill 3 little wraiths, and sit at wraith bush for their jungler to walk in and you'd be at full hp. A good majority of junglers end up relatively weak on this transition so you can catch them and send them home and jostle them out of rhythm. We tested vs Olaf and it kills Olaf if he tries to stand and fight, even at level 2. Was pretty close even if Olaf takes Exhaust, which is pretty amazing.
I don't see why you wouldn't use your smite on the red in this case. If you're waiting for them and fucking with them, it's not like the smite timing is incredibly important, so why not maximize HP by smiting red? Also, I would try that with xin tbh, xin's level 2 is so crazy.
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On June 08 2011 02:15 Southlight wrote:
Unless you know all the counterjungle timings and shit like he does and put them to use in every game as often as possible, generally you're not playing to exactly what he is intending. It's extremely evident with what I've heard to be his Noc jungle build in which he runs the opposite of what most people advocate (heavy offense), instead running 21 util because it's more disruptive to opponents, early jungling speed be damned. The vast, vast majority of junglers even uptoward to my current rating level are dreadful at jungling and have no idea how to counterjungle, instead just "winging it" and thus are much better served running standard speed/sustain builds, hence where the difference in rune/mastery/etc. begins to arise.
Edit:
TL;DR different types of jungling paths and jungle encounters favor different types of rune/mastery setups, Turkey who's a much better jungler than I runs a bizarre AD MSPD ArP quints setup and I have no clue why he's settled on it (on all his junglers!) for instance.
Personally I don't really believe in "every thing is viable just the same" in games like this. By different setups (e.g. Oddones 21 util vs Gizmos speedbuild) you shift the time during which you're strongest to the level you are most comfortable with. I'm pretty sure the approach of "I get max utility on every jungle possible" AND the approach "I get max jungle speed on every jungle possible" is both not optimal in every scenario.
Ideal case I'd like to know when which approach is better because of which variables (teamcomps mostly, sometimes people you know in the enemy team.)
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On June 08 2011 02:45 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 02:27 Southlight wrote:On June 08 2011 02:24 Mogwai wrote:
and I do bread and butter speed builds on pretty much every jungler. And it works perfectly fine! Edit On a slightly more amusing discovery and helpful note, with 18Arp 18%aspd (I'm sure similar runesets work) and 21/0/9 (x/x/21 works too) you can open Cloth x5pots and open on their Lizard without using Smite, smite blue wraith and kill 3 little wraiths, and sit at wraith bush for their jungler to walk in and you'd be at full hp. A good majority of junglers end up relatively weak on this transition so you can catch them and send them home and jostle them out of rhythm. We tested vs Olaf and it kills Olaf if he tries to stand and fight, even at level 2. Was pretty close even if Olaf takes Exhaust, which is pretty amazing. I don't see why you wouldn't use your smite on the red in this case. If you're waiting for them and fucking with them, it's not like the smite timing is incredibly important, so why not maximize HP by smiting red? Also, I would try that with xin tbh, xin's level 2 is so crazy.
Cuz I can smite Blue Wraith and chop down the lil' wraiths if I don't smite the Liz, end up ~100% by the time Olaf roll around. You'd have to adjust timing for different junglers obv. but yeah, that's my reasoning for not smiting Liz. Unfort. clearing Liz doesn't bring you to level 2 :[
I tried it with Olaf but he loses way too much HP on Liz, Xin might be able to do it? Not sure, didn't bother trying but it's worth a shot... too bad I hate playing Xin.
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How come you don't smite the blue wraith before starting liz? Is it just too easy to spot? Or is it just precaution to have a smite ready for liz "just in case"?
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Never occurred to me......
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EPT
