EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXVII - Page 50
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I'm starting to think that the interactions and accusations between me/jacob/kush (all varying degrees of the more active posters in the thread) suggests that there could be a large portion of mafia among the lurkers. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
But even then, I'm not really sold on Killing. Just looking at the actions Kush took at the end of day 2, scum Kush would have taken an insanely big gamble by trying to steer everyone to stutters. The thing is, it would have made sense from a scum-Kush perspective if he was just "trying" that while he was sure that nobody would actually follow his too-late bandwagon. That would make the most sense if the two other scum were present as well - they would stay on Remedy and let him do his towncred-digging with stutters. Then Remedy flips green and Kush can be all "told you so, we should have gone for stutters" The gamble was that, should people actually jump on, stutters would've flipped green and he (kush) would've looked pretty red. There was also a very strong possibility that stutters was gonna get modkilled, but since Cubu got replaced too, Kush might've banked on that happening again. Who knows. The thing is, if you are willing to believe that Kush would take such a big risk in a game that scum has almost won anyways, you might as well come to the conclusion that Sharrant and Sharky fakeclaimed mason. Scum Kush would have been best served by staying on Remedy, and blaming me or/and Thrawn for the Remedy mislynch afterwards. From there, it'd be really easy to mislynch me (without even pushing for it) and have town at 4-3 LYLO, with a strong position for a thrawn or stutters lynch next. (two wagons with pretty decent chances in that situation) I think Kush is not scum, because there is no tangiable scum motivation behind his recent actions. While what he did/does is not exactly thriving with town motivation, there is even less scum motivation. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
@jacob I don't understand why if I'm scum that also makes killing scum. because I defended him is that it? I never defended him really. its just that he never striked me as particularly scummy. also he has done some sharply town things. I will address those in my next post. to address your argument against me: I can't read your post while I write this so if I miss something point it out and I will be happy to address it. best post you made all game, by faaaar. so let me first congratulate you on that. You say I change my mind a lot. I have changed my mind about things but I have been honest about doing so. Truth and honesty and more important to me than the appearance of consistency. maybe it seems like im more fickle than most people but this is only because I'm constantly and as soon as I think something I will post that thought. Your second argument is that my town reads have been right. first let me say thank you. I am pretty awesome I agree. It's no mystery how made those reads though. I don't think doing stupid shit is a scumtell. It's as simple as that. and I have been proven right. People seem to forget that this is a newb game and for a lot of people it's their first game. I remember my first game... I roleclaimed jk day 1 because someone fosed me. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 00:35 KillingTime wrote: I don't understand the point of FoS'ing on day 1 - no-one has a huge list of strong scum reads and you can change your vote at any time. If you think someone is scum then you should vote for them, if you are not sure or looking to pressure than a vote is also a much better way to do that than a FOS which at best is just going to cause scum to play more carefully. Pressure voting is fine; however it can also be useful for scum. You guys pressure vote while I wait for the bandwagon. However I have to admit this isn’t the best argument. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 01:56 KillingTime wrote: I agree that Kush's statements about not wanting to die were dumb and anti-town. I haven't voted him yet though because a) I think the serial killer case, while I can follow the logic, is a huge overreach when we don't even know whether we have a serial killer. It would be equally plausible to argue that kush was trying to attract attention to himself with that kind of remark. b) Kush made a significant number of dumb comments at the start of XXVI and turned out to be town. That doesn't excuse these comments, but they are not enough on their own to make me think he is scum. Not scum in its self but the amount of protecting kush did of killing compiled with him protecting kush here doesn’t help. More of the Fos argument. He could be using this to appear like he is posting as he as commented on it a lot (considering he has such a small filter it means he isn’t spending the time scum hunting) + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 13:58 KillingTime wrote: I just woke up - yeah I meant to post more last night but couldn't for irl reasons. Sorry I know that looked bad. Probably didn’t need to spoiler that but this does look really bad still. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 15:07 KillingTime wrote: Ok - well I think the best thing for me to do Is go through the questions drazak asked me last night: Players I want to see more from - There are lots of players in this category: 1. RemedySC - Not much interesting in his posts, nothing scummy but nothing strong 2. Drazak - Again, he made fair points about me and I am answering his questions - he has said he will also try to post more today. If there is one thing that I learnt from XXVI it is that associational cases are bad though. So leave off this how is he connected to X&Y on D1. 3. Stutters 4.Cubu!!! - I am quite happy to policy lynch cubu every game I play with him if he is not posting more. Cubu post more or I will vote for you. Two strongest town reads: (though town reads are kind of dubious atm, because strong mafia probably look like town now -d1 we are more trying to catch a weaker mafia I think) 1. Thrawn - I don't put much stock in the idea that him & Debears are necessarily linked in some way - but his posting has been strong all day 2. Sonic - Solid town posts, less high up for me though, just because I have the experience of playing with him in XXVI and know he is a strong player who fooled me for large parts of that game. When I went to bed, I thought Sharrant was towny - he was following the same train of logic that I did and he was . Now I just don't know - others have totally fought with him on asking debears to roleclaim and that was a bad idea, I don't think he is a good d1 lynch, there is too much chance he flips bad town, but he is definitely a player I want to look at more closely as the game progresses And the most important part - scum: 1.Debears - my scum read on him from yesterday has not changed that much, his hugely defensive posting since then is a bad, and I agree with Kush's attack on his last post. I sort of like that he is attacking rethos - but rethos is an easy target, a lurker who has only posted questions so far. I await to see what he has to say about Sharrant. 2.Atreidies - 3 posts, all bad , random setup speculation. You can pretty much sum up everything he has said so far as "I'm not convinced" - That is not at all scummy per se - but you need to combine that attitude with efforts to scumhunt yourself and contribute actively. Because he hasn't, it looks scummy to me. Ok this is one of his major posts. The players I want to see more from section... He is a player we want to see more from so this could just trying to look like an active poster. (also happy to policy lynch cubu) He has two town reads, now while I love town reads late game, early town reads are a little ehh... and could be useless he also said they could be mafia because strong town look like mafia... (wat?) I understand what he is saying but still seems pointless. Anyway he town reads thrawn and sonic. He also wants to look closely at sharrent not committing to a read. Going on debears is something that kush did, if they are in unison they might have tried to set debears up. Atreidies appears to just be a random lurker he picked up. You could say the same for any lurker really. (Something I will note real quick) So far he isn’t that unlike most of the other lurkers the only thing that sets him apart is the connection with kush. + Show Spoiler + On September 19 2012 22:41 KillingTime wrote: far as "My" case (not really "my" case - but my vote) on Debears goes I still prefer him slightly over sharrant. see Debears as more scummy than sharrant because he led with stupid play and then tried to explain it away, whereas on my reading the Sharrant case seems more "bad towny" than a strong scum read, he started trying to help town and then made a dumb mistake. Not sure about time line but he mentions it’s not his case, did he sheep onto kush’s case? I think he probably would they are both going with the sharrent is bad townie argument. (which he turned out to be{or maybe not bad just used to irl mafia which appears quite different}) + Show Spoiler + On September 20 2012 00:30 KillingTime wrote: I am here at the moment (around for a half hour or so) - if you want to ask me anything then you can. Other than the fact I was away last night (and therefore "lurky" to you) - why else do you think I am scum? Honestly at this point without the connection to kush in account. He is scummy because he lurks and he isn’t overly committal. With the connection to kush in account he is a lot more scummy. (assuming kush is mafia which I think he is) + Show Spoiler + On September 20 2012 06:08 KillingTime wrote: I want to make some amazing read on Sharrant going back through his whole filter and checking out the case on him - therby assuaging thrawn & those who seem to think I am a lurking scum  But sorry I just can't make head or tail of his postings today. I don't understand his post from either a mafia or a town perspective - this makes me think he is a bad townie, because if he was mafia he would have had two others telling him how to diffuse this situation.My own observations about stutters were nearly a disaster last game, perhaps as a result I have been too cautious d1. I will do better tomorrow and try to find a strong target. The lynch I feel best about is Cubu, for reasons that anyone who played/reads the last game should be clear on, even if he is town again (hard to tell), we are going to go into D2 in a stronger position with him gone & I feel it is even scummier that he is not here this game when he got lynched as town for the same behaviour last game. It seems like debears has not been scummy enough since the inital post for others to have a strong feeling he is scum & am not confident enough in the case against Sharrant to vote for him. I'll be around for like 15-20 mins now, then I have to go. ##unvote debears ##vote Cubu Is unsure about sharrent, can’t see mafia or town perspectives is unsure about cubu “(hard to tell)” but goes for the lynch anyway goes off debears. + Show Spoiler + On September 20 2012 07:19 KillingTime wrote: I need to go to bed. I can't process this stuff properly right now. Back to basics = hunting scum - so I am going back to voting my strongest scumread before all this nonsense - which was debears. I think that puts him and cubu on 2 votes each. You guys who are awake get to decide who to lynch I guess. ##unvote ##vote debears This is actually town points to him, he is confused because of the role claim so goes back to his scum read. However leaving at this time wouldn’t be but he also said he is from the eu. + Show Spoiler + On September 20 2012 16:15 KillingTime wrote: Is it allowed to ask Sharrant to post a link to the mason quicktopic to prove his claim? I am asking the mods first because I feel like it might not be, but it wasn't clear in the rules (it says you can post your role pm and the sample role pm makes no mention of not being able to post the quicktopic link to the thread if you choose) Again town points unless he assumed that it wasn’t allowed... Page two. Still heavy lurking though, he says he is sorry if people think he is but that means nothing. Still going for debears, interesting considering my other theory. But I will get to that later. + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2012 18:50 KillingTime wrote: If lynch lurkers is a decent policy - then Lynching liars, (even bad ones) is an essential policy ( from what I have read). I am sort of null on you because I don't see how your posts today help mafia or town at all but I can come up with plausible scenarios why both would do this - just totally barf worthy. I am not great at his game yet, but I am going to be annoyed if this is another game where d1 &2 are dominated by terrible town play. I am still going to look later and see if I can find a better scum - but for now. Vote##: rethos He goes for rethos who is one of his potential scum partners so I will have to see if he changes vote soon after. Goes with good reason though (but I will get to this in my rethos/dandel case I guess) Ouch my arm is really starting to hurt, several days of assignments followed by all this... + Show Spoiler + On September 21 2012 19:11 KillingTime wrote: I sort of feel he is breaking the rules here and messing up the game. Saying explicitly with like 36hrs of a day left that you are going to get replaced in thread - when the first post explicitly says that you should PM the mod and that you can't get modkilled to help you team - seems to violate the spirit of those rules if not the exact letter for me. Meh I guess that is a mess for the mods to sort out and not us. But this is not cool Says that he is breaking the rules, if rethos is town could be an attempt at a free kill. The case on killing thus far seems rather weak without having relation to kush and other theorys/cases. I would NOT lynch him tomorrow tbh... anyway continuing on. + Show Spoiler + On September 22 2012 03:56 KillingTime wrote: I said before the game that I will not be around much tomorrow. I am not going to be around regularly tonight though & thinking about it I am suspicious of Kush now though given his passionate defence of you/rethos Possible Motivations: If you are mafia and he is town - putting that much focus on trying to prevent you being lynched by exonerating rethos seems bad play to me. Also, he said at the start that: - does not seem like he is doing that. If you are mafia and he is mafia - makes no sense If you are town and he is mafia - He can make a defence of you, (knowing it was unlikely to succeed with rethos terrible play) then when you get lynched say "I didn't want to lynch him anyway, you should have listened to me" - gaining townie cred off a mislynch. Ho Hum - Kush, do you really think this is a good example of careful & better analysis? Again he posts about not being around much, this is really the most frustrating part as I can’t get a solid read on him either way. He is either just one of the lurkers with potential to be scum or he is scum with all these connections to kush etc... He does go at kush in a ho Hum way (lol) but this I think is the first time I have seen them even slightly go at each other. Again he is gone... or can’t do much + Show Spoiler + On September 23 2012 03:29 KillingTime wrote: Ok -so I haven't read the full thread since my last post but my opinion on Remedy based on his filter: D1 - doesn't want to lynch lurkers, Posts bad case on Kush (imho - attacking someone for wanting to lynch lurkers is not attacking someone for scum play), Goes away and avoids d1 drama. - Scummy thing to say for sure, "false regret" is a dumb scum thing - If he didn't want a drazak lynch he should have said so. Posts more bad inferences about Kush. Decent post on Stutters - pointing out a fair argument against him from my perspective (as I know I am town). But this is not hard for mafia to do either as they know everyone's alignments (except if there is an sk) - so this is null. Pointless cellphone posts, defends Rethos at a weird time when there was a big back and forth about it going on - ok but he never follows it up, pointless post. Points out something obviously scummy from stutters. Overall - poor posts, one that looks obviously scummy and lots that don't help us scumhunting (somewhat scum). He would be a decent lynch. My problem is that there are several decent lynches.... difficult to decide between them. After questioning kush he then comes in and goes at remedy for thinking kush was scummy. If kush flips mafia then killing has a lot of explaining to do. If not the case is weak. + Show Spoiler + On September 23 2012 03:37 KillingTime wrote: Edit: also - it was Kush who started the wagon on Stutters. Remedy pushed and voted for Kush D1 and has not said that he has changed his mind. Remedy why are you so eager joining a wagon (albeit on a player you did say you thought was scummy) started by another player you thought was scummy? Were you not worried that one of your scum reads was pushing the other? Points out kush started the wagon (giving him silent town points) Well he kinda stops posting at this point nothing from after the flip. So tl;dr If kush is mafia then yes killing has a huge chance of being mafia. But apart from that nothing solid to go on tbh... sure he lurks and is indecisive those are bad features but I wouldn’t feel happy lynching him on that alone. Just saw kushs post, On September 23 2012 22:48 kushm4sta wrote: @jacob I don't understand why if I'm scum that also makes killing scum. because I defended him is that it? I never defended him really. its just that he never striked me as particularly scummy. also he has done some sharply town things. I will address those in my next post. I guess you might be right but you are defending him incase of you flipping. I agree after going though his filter he doesn’t look as scummy but saying he isn’t likely scum if you flip scum? *realises he isn’t being flamed for once* Hurm... | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
He initiates the plan to check the mason chat. this doesn't guarantee him town. but I read his filter and honestly it just does not seem that suspicious to me. granted he has been quite afk. I would say its a town leaning null read atm. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
He was trying to steer people onto stutters but not in a definite way. He jumped from stutteres to remedy often and he seemed to start doing this when the focus was shifting from stutters (although hard to tell without timeline) Also scum has almost won this game? 0-o I hope not I was just getting into it. Why, are we completely on the wrong trail? What do you know? You seem to have more information than possible. (However I haven’t gotten around to your filter yet) “Scum Kush would have been best served by staying on Remedy, and blaming me or/and Thrawn for the Remedy mislynch afterwards. From there, it'd be really easy to mislynch me (without even pushing for it) and have town at 4-3 LYLO, with a strong position for a thrawn or stutters lynch next. (two wagons with pretty decent chances in that situation)” Thats a pretty hypothetical situation. That assumes you are town. You were actually in my kush dandel killing theory which is why I am making cases on you (and a re-evaluation of thrawn to be safe) I will have to wait for my arm to come back to functioning status before I continue though... | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
On September 23 2012 23:12 kushm4sta wrote: @Jacob fermez la bouche That will really move the thread forward won't it... | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On September 23 2012 23:12 JacobStrangelove wrote: @dandel I am not sold on killing as solo scum at all. Why would you be more sure? (as in apart from the how scum kush would act theory{which seems to require more information than we have}) He was trying to steer people onto stutters but not in a definite way. He jumped from stutteres to remedy often and he seemed to start doing this when the focus was shifting from stutters (although hard to tell without timeline) Also scum has almost won this game? 0-o I hope not I was just getting into it. Why, are we completely on the wrong trail? What do you know? You seem to have more information than possible. (However I haven’t gotten around to your filter yet) “Scum Kush would have been best served by staying on Remedy, and blaming me or/and Thrawn for the Remedy mislynch afterwards. From there, it'd be really easy to mislynch me (without even pushing for it) and have town at 4-3 LYLO, with a strong position for a thrawn or stutters lynch next. (two wagons with pretty decent chances in that situation)” Thats a pretty hypothetical situation. That assumes you are town. You were actually in my kush dandel killing theory which is why I am making cases on you (and a re-evaluation of thrawn to be safe) I will have to wait for my arm to come back to functioning status before I continue though... I feel pretty safe in assuming I am town. I would know. I was saying Killing has a "higher chance", meaning I have less of a town read on him than I have on Kush. It's a direct comparison. I don't currently think Killing is too scummy, but I aknowledge the possibility that he might be. He's pretty null to me though. I don't think Kush is scum. In other words, I think Kush is town. | ||
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