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Stuff on Cthsazsa:
On May 04 2011 21:03 Cthsazsa wrote:
Just finished reading all the posts. I must say, I haven't really seen a legitimate reason to be suspicious of anyone. Right now it's just a bunch of people pointing fingers at each other.
I acted pretty much like this the first time I was ever mafia. I tried to post so that people would recognize my name but didn't want to make any stands to avoid scrutiny. Especially early on before mafia buddies help each other out as much I feel people's first few posts are just on their own doing their own thing trying not to get caught.
On May 05 2011 06:34 Cthsazsa wrote:
Are we allowed to PM the coaches?
If he is PMing coaches, either they are giving him bad advice or he is not listening to them/actually getting advice.
On May 05 2011 06:46 Cthsazsa wrote:
I'll give my thoughts so far on this.
I've noticed a lot of finger-pointing going around. A good example would be of KillerSOS qucikly criticizing Rising_Pheonix's post as spam, even though all he did was give his viewpoint on the current situation?
Sandroba is very quick to accuse people as being scum.
As a few people have already said, Kurumi's posts are strange. It seemed like that at first he was trying to attack chaoser, and then started claiming him to be a good pro-townie?
AirBlade's post instantly looked like anti-town. He was suggesting that we lynch Kurumi, and then he said that even if Kurumi is a townie, it's still okay.
As I said earlier, right now all we're doing is pointing fingers and forcing people into corners to make them look suspicious. I still haven't seen a good, legitimate reason for voting off someone yet.
Hindsight helps here. If he knew KillerSoS was town, here he would be tempted to add to the pressure. Same case with Kurumi and same case with myself. It's like he always brings up people (2 confirmed dead townies) who are town and under at least a little bit of heat. But he still does not make any stands whatsoever. He just acknowledges the fact that he agrees with suspicions and that's it.
On May 05 2011 12:31 Cthsazsa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 04:22 Irish_Punk13 wrote:
Okay, for now my vote is going on AirbladeOrange for his last post. I don't like the fact that he's okay with the idea of lynching town. Kurumi is making some great posts so far, and I think he's most likely town based off of his actions so far. The fact that you think it's okay to lynch him tells me that you're probably scum, so I'm putting my vote on you. I've changed my vote from AO to Irish after rereading this post several times. It really makes no sense. Kurumi rambles on with posts that makes just about no sense, and out of the blue Irish takes up his defence by saying the bolded words. This has pretty much been pointed out by several people. Maybe Kumuri and Irish both are scum.
This is another pretty vague post. He changes his vote from me to Irish because of one post that is suspicious. All does does is say it makes no sense. Furthermore I found no good reason to vote for me to begin with but I guess I'm quite biased because I am, after all, me. Perhaps the analysis of Irish being mafia is incorrect and Cthsazsa is trying to throw another townie to their death. Also, at this point it was increasingly looking like Kurumi was going to be lynched rather than Irish so even if Irish was mafia it wasn't an overly risky play. Lastly, he throws out his usual maybe this maybe that thing without making a stance.
+ Show Spoiler + On May 06 2011 13:57 Cthsazsa wrote:My take on the situation before I go to bed. + Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 13:08 DropBear wrote:On VarpuliS22 posts since the game started for real, starting with 228. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 07:12 VarpuliS wrote:I just read through the thread, and I'm not sure exactly what to think. My biggest FoS right now is on Rising_Phoenix. He hasn't been lurking, exactly, but rather making vacuous posts. On May 05 2011 06:00 Rising_Phoenix wrote:
I'm sitting here hoping that something interesting happen but all I see is:
*SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM* *SPAM*
Also lots of finger pointing without any actual evidence. I almost say vote for the spammers so at least we can have some constructive comments.
Also, the reason why my one post was unsubstantial is because I am still waiting for something to stick out. Right now all the spam looks suspicious, or at least is really annoying. Active =/= scummy. Why are you telling people to stop talking? This is not pro-town. It's pretty ironic that you're telling people to stop spamming by making an empty spam post. When you start posting content, you can tell people to stop spamming. Your post is pretty empty yourself. I am interested in the fact that very early on you say that active does not mean scummy. Why not? Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 08:36 VarpuliS wrote:A very common scum technique is to act suspicious of other scum, so that when/if they flip red you can say "I knew it" and seem pro-town.
On May 05 2011 07:13 Cthsazsa wrote:
Why would we vote off inactives? We should leave them be. If they are mafia, well they aren't that much of a threat to us since they're not participating. On the other hand, if they're a townie then that'll just put a crutch in us. We'll lose a townie, PLUS we'd have wasted our votes.
People insisting that we vote off inactives just seems suspicious to me. What the hell is this post? Inactive players are not pro-town because they - Aren't giving us posts to analyze, thus deducing that they're town and focusing on real scum. This derails the town and helps the mafia.
- Aren't contributing and helping the town decide who is mafia. Most lurkers/inactives are just sheep who join major bandwagons, in my limited experience.
- Could be mafia keeping quiet so that nobody can figure that out from their posting. they can still kill/roleblock at night, so they are still a threat.
This is either a really stupid post or a really scummy post. I honestly can't tell which. Lynching an inactive day 1 is common, because it is rare to have enough information/analysis to peg any actual scum. A lynch based off of solid analysis is always to be preferred, of course. Ultimately, town wants to get rid of all inactive players before lylo, when each vote and opinion counts, while scum wants to keep as many inactives alive as possible, because they're useless to the town and just add uncertainty. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 08:40 VarpuliS wrote:On May 05 2011 08:36 Cthsazsa wrote:
I don't understand. I was talking about inactive people, not lurkers. It is very hard to tell which is which. Thus, inactives must be treated as lurkers, or else lurking scum could just hide as inactives and be safe. that would be bad. The best course of action is to pressure the lurkers into posting. If they are truly inactive, they get modkilled and we move on. I'm not talking about them, i'm talking about the "posting so I don't get modkilled today" kind of poster. I consider them inactive as well. You are repeatedly talking about inactives but you go to absolute no lengths to actually bring them out. Noone is named, no requests are given. This is all pointless. VarpuliS was very strongly on the Kurumi lynch. Here is his case: Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 11:15 VarpuliS wrote:Kurumi Kurumi's posts can be divided into two categories. Useless spam, and misleading drivel, and actual content Useless spam.+ Show Spoiler +On May 04 2011 22:41 Kurumi wrote:
I thought I will have any heavy read by the time I am back and game starts but..
the only thing I saw was
CHAOS.
Saying that,while someone says this,posting some rules being in the other thread,just doing a contribution without any value I have no clue what that is even supposed to mean. Not helpful, just spammy. On May 05 2011 01:07 Kurumi wrote:
Chaoser,You wouldn't make any effort to defend Yourself if they were onto something,note that Irish backed off into the shadows,while You try to do something. You have two different approaches to play.
Sandroba tries to play the Town Hero,he "has" the sense!
Chaos13 does not know what is going on anymore. This post makes a lot of statements without really saying anything. Spam. On May 05 2011 01:49 Kurumi wrote:
Thanks Chaoser,I think I did not see that tip in Newbie thread.
I wasn't too cautious,right,but even insane thought can turn out to be true.
I have no idea how to reply. What does this contribute? "crazy shit can be right," so I'm not going to defend my opinion. On May 05 2011 03:13 Kurumi wrote:
13 2 6 3 2 2 13
Thanks for pointing out that I am fearful of using names,thus making my posts inconsistent,weird and often misunderstood. Which posts should I "repair" - that meaning making it totally straight and understandable? Why the hell are there numbers at the top of this posts? Rest is nonsensical. On May 05 2011 03:18 Kurumi wrote:
No,I am just saying that using names all over again is unnatural for me. Fine, but not a contribution, so technically spam. On May 05 2011 03:36 Kurumi wrote:
Such unlucky formatting,I had such cool line of numbers from top to the bottom.
I tried to make something happen and yeah I did,but it turned out talking about me is interesting. spam. On May 05 2011 04:00 Kurumi wrote:
Jackal58
Just a post. spammyspamspam On May 05 2011 04:24 Kurumi wrote:
Punk,You're back! So my pre-emptive lurker vote is obsolete now! OK then, good for you! On May 05 2011 04:36 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 04:34 ilovejonn wrote:
I don't think you should kid about lynches. Our votes are very valuable and it's basically our only way of killing scum. Shh,he won't allow You on the EXCUSE boat. thank you for that On May 05 2011 04:50 Kurumi wrote:
Remember people mentioning the numbers.
Giving away Your biggest weakness might be Your biggest strenght. what? On May 05 2011 04:54 Kurumi wrote:
Haha,it was cool first season,then got boring. About LOST, or some shit like that On May 05 2011 05:03 Kurumi wrote:
Sorry I didn't call for mass roleclaim,that would not be mysterious and pretty cool Mafia game,eh? Nice joke, funny funny, no content. On May 05 2011 05:44 Kurumi wrote:
Hello there Kenpachi,enjoy reading the thread!
On May 05 2011 05:54 Kurumi wrote:
Hey Jackal58,we missed You! Nice posts. I would be missing your good ones, but I never knew them. On May 05 2011 00:56 Kurumi wrote:
Drop Chaoser discussion as scum.
He will be probably shot this night because he is good at Mafia and is staying really pro-town.
It is good to see some lurkers waking up! I agree that Chaoser is pro-town, but shutting down analysis and suspicion on any player without suggesting a more suspicious player is not pro-town play. On May 05 2011 01:09 Kurumi wrote:
Oh,also I am voting on Irish Punk.
Funny how he and chaos have 13 in the end of their nicknames. I would call this spam, but it involves a vote. His reason is "he plays differently from Chaoser" Bad. On May 05 2011 01:16 Kurumi wrote:
I just note that his behaviour is different from Irish_Punk's and it looks pro-town,because of trying to make party going As I said, bad reasoning. On May 05 2011 01:22 Kurumi wrote:
I just find his activeness into lurking suspicious. Why would You stop contributing when You have nothing to fear of? There is a real world outside of TL. On May 05 2011 01:32 Kurumi wrote:
Chaoser,did You really grab my crappy contribution posts from SC2 to Mafia forums?
I did not vote because of coincidence,I just saw it.
When I stared my third post I knew that it will go wrong and I will be accused of scum.
Bringing more chaos into Day 1 than there was wasn't my intention. A scummy post is still scummy even if you acknowledge that it is. On May 05 2011 03:35 Kurumi wrote:
13 Eternal - his refers to Chaoser. It was pointed out though Irish_Punk13 might just started doing 2 something besides writing post here on Mafia forums,so his step back into lurker den isn't 6 actually that obvious,just a normal human activity.
3 My point is,Mafia itself would rather not start the discussion(unless it was questions helping them 2 out,like "How do You deal with Mafia claims" "What usually gives out Your identity" etc)
2 The thing that Chaoser and redtooth posted was just a mini-guide how not to fail horribly at Mafia.
13 Still it could be a smoke bomb. This is so confusing that any content that might be in this post is lost on me. what the hell do the numbers mean?On May 05 2011 04:13 Kurumi wrote:
AirbladeOrange:
"A dead Townie is a good Townie"
I like Your style,as Cave Johnson said! Cute, but misinterpreting the post. On May 05 2011 04:33 Kurumi wrote:
Numbers? What numbers? 13 2 6 3 2 2 13?
They're just to cast more suspicion on me,like hey! Random numbers MUST be something!
No. I just felt like typing them.
My type of posting might be connected to English being my second language (the biggest thing is repeating names which I am not comfortable with,where in Polish I need to find 2347234 possibilities to avoid typing the same thing in one,even two sentences.)
It was wrong to assume my thought process will apply to everyone and I understand that mistake.
Just to put some emphasis:
13 2 6 3 2 2 13 is nothing,but I might get some link if You want to make them mystical,You know. Why would you post meaningless numbers? I'm fine with the explanation of why you post the way you post, but the numbers thing totally derails this post. Again, how are useless numbers beneficial to town?On May 04 2011 23:07 Kurumi wrote:
Your attacks on Chaoser and redtooth are not supported by any evidence than nitpicking,yes they are posting without much value,but we are just starting off. I don't have any problem with this post because I agree with it. Good post. On May 05 2011 04:15 Kurumi wrote:
Seriously. Never say that dead Town is a good deal,it makes You look weird or even suspicious I'll count this so that this section has more than 1 post in it, because this is a logical statement. On May 05 2011 05:29 Kurumi wrote:
Sandroba,You were the person to grab the number trick to make me suspicious. Easy lynch for scum,isn't it? I don't accuse You of being red but.. You're trying to do it the easiest way. Don't keep doing it,please. When You don't think and just go straight You might miss something. On May 05 2011 05:30 Kurumi wrote:
Stop doing it,please*
Grammar,the horror! I'm calling this content despite my better judgement. He's calling out sandroba for joining a bandwagon based off of faulty evidence (I think). Fair enough. On May 05 2011 06:09 Kurumi wrote:
So basically I need to do something,because my fishy posting won't be a good defence for myself while I am gone.
Kurumi used Excuse!
Kurumi has some Excuses left!
Excuse:This will be my first time doing a small analysis,so please don't beat me and lay down Your stones,pickaxes,guns or whatever You just picked up.
Thanks.
My thoughts on:
Chaos13
Points out my weird style of posting,numbers and thinks it is huge scum tell. He is thinking on his own rails,probably not trying to doom us all.
Sandroba
Hero of our city!
Scumhunts every post and every post he has new scum tell,amazing how he does it.
Together with Chaos13 is picking on my posting.
Irish_Punk13
Got on my rails or at least tries to understand what I try to tell. Points out AirbladeOrange suspicious behavior. Supposedly works for town.
AirbladeOrange
Wants me dead. Because dead townie is best townie,right? Since I have no contribution value I am worthless. Looks like that is not what he meant actually. Dead townie has no vote privilege!
The less votes are available for town,the better for the scum!
Suspicious,might be scum.
Chaoser
Very careful,does not like me hugging him. This is both-side reaction. Though because it is Day1 and his biggest contribution was the hint post I believe I can't decide who he is.
KillerSOS
Plays for fun,enjoys the game. Agreeds with the Irish_Punk13.
ilovejonn
Is as careful as Chaoser,has good idea who should be looked at.
Kenpachi
Has got this. I mean,the backup plan of course. Is onto something obviously.
Overall,most of people are trying to hop on me,or AirbladeOrange for his bluff about dead townies.
I know this is not SO helpful analysis that You'd hoped for,but look at top of the post.
No. Don't pick up those. Please? It is about my excuse. Many of You already used them,some multiple amount of times,but I have no time to pick on it. I believe I will have time to post tomorrow after school (day ends 5:00 KST,right?) It's defensive, but it's content. I don't agree with some of it though. The Kenpachi part is BS, the ABO part is half OMGUS and half logic.
Notice how the majority of his posts are spam, misinformation, or anti-town. Can you find the townie under all of this? because I can't. This guy isn't being pro-town, and in my opinion he's our best lynch for day 1. ##Vote: Kurumi+ Show Spoiler +Whew, that took longer than I expected... This is the only major analysis from him so far. He makes a large song and dance about how much of what Kurumi says doesn't make sense. The part where you say he's posted good content you also say you don't agree with it all. Could you elaborate? Also I find little difference between many of the posts you say are misleading drivel and those that are "actual content". Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 11:34 VarpuliS wrote:On May 05 2011 11:33 KillerSOS wrote:On May 05 2011 11:31 Cthsazsa wrote:
What do I need to say to clear my name? I've said it twice already, it was a misunderstanding between the definition of inactive and lurker. When I read inactive, I thought it meant people who weren't playing at all. As in someone who's signed up for this game and hasn't logged on TL since.
At the rate this thread is moving, inactive means "haven't posted in the past hour". ^_^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You've helped lynch Kurumi on grounds of spam and unhelpful/misleading posts. This is also spam, unhelpful and misleading, as are about 5 of your posts around here. There's a FoS on Cthsazsa which you very quickly forget about. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 12:49 VarpuliS wrote:
elmizzt, do you often refer to yourself in the third person?
Cthsazsa, you've used the "they want us to waste our votes" twice now, I believe. I've got my eye on you. You didn't respond well to jackal's tunneling, and now you disregard the reason elmizzt voted for you. FoS Cthsazsa is on my scum list as well as you. This is an attempt to help you appear town down the line when Cthsazsa flips. If you really were town and felt like hunting scum you'd follow up on this. Following this is a few posts regarding posting in third person. These are just spam, unhelpful and misleading, just like your read on Kurumi. Next is his third FoS, Irish_Punk13: Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 21:20 VarpuliS wrote:
I'm on the fence between lynching Irish_Punk13 and Kurumi. At this point it seems to me that Irish is only scum if Kurumi is too. People are pushing a lynch on Irish because of the information he'll provide when he flips, but I think that we can get all of that information from a lynch on Kurumi.
Situation A: Kurumi flips scum, it is very likely that Irish is as well. We lynch Irish the next day, and we get our information, just a day later.
Situation B: Kurumi flips town. Irish is probably town, we move on. The only real scumtell from Irish is noting Kurumi's "great posts" which don't exist. If Kurumi is town, then Irish is just an idiot.
I'm posting from my phone, classes start soon and I probably won't have time to check the thread again until the afternoon. This is entirely a push for an information lynch which is a very bad idea. Also, what happened to your case against Irish_Punk13? Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 06:01 VarpuliS wrote:Just got back from school, damn this thread is moving fast. Kurumi's posting hasn't improved, It seems. What sort of townie plan is based upon being scummy and nonsensical to get the town talking and then saying "Guys, i'm not scum, it was all part of the plan?" My vote's staying on him. Someone a couple pages back corrected me about my "lynching for information theory." I think it was Aidnai. Thank you, I'll keep that in mind for the future. On May 06 2011 05:15 Rising_Phoenix wrote:
You know what, vote for me. I honestly can't handle so many posts and I don't have time to write something, I know I'm not contributing but I honestly thought I'd have the time to actually contribute to this but I don't. Maybe if there won't be another page of posts by the time I'm done writing this I'd be able to feel like there isn't such a huge amount of information coming in, but if you want me off I honestly don't mind right now. This looks to me like a townie getting bored. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets himself modkilled or replaced. He retracts the information lynch idea, then follows up with a post stating the bleeding obvious about Rising_Phoenix. You still aren't contributing at all other than tunnelling Kurumi hardcore. Follows this with huge reposting of redtooth's arguments, copy-pasted. The only other real post of note he has is this: Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 09:37 VarpuliS wrote:
Yo Beneather, you just voted without posting in the thread. Why was this not followed up on? Interestingly enough Cthsasza also brings him up and doesn't do anything about it. CONCLUSION VarpuliS is mafia.He does a whole lot of talking and doesn't actually say anything. He very strongly tried to get Kurumi lynched and did nothing else. He is hiding in plain sight. His complete lack of any contribution other than tunneling Kurumi, self-contradictions and complete disappearance once the Kurumi lynch was certain, plus his interaction with other people I believe to be scum make him dodgy. Actually, I did do something about it. I looked up Beneather's post history in this thread. VarpuliS was wrong. Beneather posted 3 times since the game started. The three posts he made don't have much value to them, though. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 08:24 Beneather wrote:On May 05 2011 08:22 Forumite wrote:
Of these three, I think we have the least to go on with AirbladeOrange, because he´s only got 4 posts so far. He looks more like a slow poster that made a few scumtells. Could you analyze these posts. So that we can see the scumtells you are telling us. We can't just bandwagon a guy just you say he has 4 posts and had a few scumtells. We need a little more than that. He asked Forumite to analyze the posts. Forumite did, but very poorly. After Forumite's analysis, Beneather never commented on it. In fact he never talked about it again. This dude's clearly lurking. As for my one liner, I apologize DropBear. My girlfriend was in the hospital, and I couldn't resist checking up on the thread while I was waiting. So I hastily gave my opinion of him, which was a mistake. I should've waited until now to give my analysis. DropBear, you also said I didn't do anything about it. Well, neither have you. And on your post against VarpuliS, you do a really good job pointing out his slipups. You've pretty much stated why he is one of my FoS. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 13:08 DropBear wrote:
Cthsazsa is on my scum list as well as you. This is an attempt to help you appear town down the line when Cthsazsa flips.
That is exactly what VarpuliS said, you even quoted it. I find that to be a horrible reason to call someone scum. Not because I'm the target in it, but because you can use that argument on literally anyone. ForumiteWhy he is becoming a FoS in my books. + Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 06:58 Forumite wrote:EBWOP Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 06:51 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 06:44 Forumite wrote:On May 06 2011 06:33 redtooth wrote:
I am busy today. We will probably end up lynching Kurumi. I was going to ask whether you would want to request a Day Vigi hit on Irish since you're so confident (70% is absolutely ridiculous IMO but you might just like higher numbers) but it's too late and our response would take too long. Worst case scenario, we fumble the lynch and do have a double-townkill round. Wouldn´t wasting a day-vigilante be a bit of a waste? It's not a waste if it's a 70% chance of scumhit. If I was the one pushing it, I'd take those odds anyday. If it really was 70%, the net expected results aren't too bad either: - 70% chance of occurring - We hit Irish, he flips red, we catch a scum we wouldn't have caught otherwise. Net of +1 at the cost of a Day Vigi shot. - 30% chance of occurring - We hit Irish, he flips green, we stop the bandwagon on Kurumi and save a townie. Net of 0 at the cost of a Day Vigi shot. What does 70/30 come from? On May 06 2011 07:04 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 06:59 Kurumi wrote:Again I stayed up for Mafia a bit too long,but I just want to see how it goes,so I will be lurking from my PSP in bed. Just a thought: I flip red,Irish and redtooth are suspicious. 3 Scum giveaway on Day1? Really? I don't think it is possible. I flip blue and people can't understand how I managed to get myself lynched I flip green and Irish and redtooth are not as suspicious,but every person nitpicking and tunneling me is now suspicious,together with bandwagoners and lurkers emerging just to vote on me. + Show Spoiler +I will flip rainbow,maybe even double one If you are blue, now´s the time to roleclaim. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:00 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 06:56 Forumite wrote:
Where does 70/30 come from? This is the last time I'm helping you. Seriously, stop acting like a baby and do the reasoning yourself. You're quickly losing any credibility you have with your empty questioning. Chaoser stated that he was 70% sure Irish was scum. That is the "70" part of 70/30. The "30" part of 70/30 comes from when you subtract 70 from 100 and then you get 30. Why are you arguing that day-vigilante is a good move by using probabilities you yourself think are wrong? On May 06 2011 06:33 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 06:17 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 05:56 Forumite wrote:
You said you were checking Kurumi, and I assumed pissing off Kurumi and Irish refered to calling them out on their scummy behavior. AKA tunneling. See scumtells from everything I say don't you. Well whatever, I'll play along for now - I said that the act of pissing off Kurumi and Irish would have made me seem protown since they were getting bandwagoned hard and I would have fit right in with the rest of you all. Instead I kicked the beehive and now (somehow) stand accused of pandering them. I did check out Kurumi. Less confident that he's town but he's still leaning town nonetheless.
On May 06 2011 05:52 Mig wrote:
Red I understand it can be important to find townies but we have to lynch someone within the next few hours. So who are you going to vote for and why? We'll see. I don't like realvoting (as opposed to baitvoting) early, especially if I'll probably be around for the deadline and can actually make a difference in the count. If voting was to end 5 minutes from now, I'd put it on Chaoser just out of protest. If I had to be the tiebreaker between Kurumi and KillerSOS, I'd probably put it on Killer. If I had to be the tiebreaker between Kurumi and Irish, I'd probably put it on Chaoser simply because I don't want to be anywhere near those ridiculous lynches. Is it tunneling if you admit that I´m right, that calling Irish and Kurumi scum would be protown right now? On May 06 2011 06:44 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 06:33 redtooth wrote:
I am busy today. We will probably end up lynching Kurumi. I was going to ask whether you would want to request a Day Vigi hit on Irish since you're so confident (70% is absolutely ridiculous IMO but you might just like higher numbers) but it's too late and our response would take too long. Worst case scenario, we fumble the lynch and do have a double-townkill round. Wouldn´t wasting a day-vigilante be a bit of a waste? Lets make comparisons between those posts by Forumite. Each of these posts are either asking a question or making a statement to continue the argument. They aren't worth any value, don't contribute, and all they do is draw out pointless/stupid arguments that don't benefit the town. Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 09:00 Forumite wrote:
Moving my vote to Kurumi. If we have 20 votes on one person, at least we know it stays there, scum can´t flip the vote at the last second.
##Unvote: redtooth
##Vote: Kurumi In his last post before Kurumi's death, he hops on the bandwagon and switches his vote to Kurumi. My top 3 FoS right now are Beneather, Forumite, and VarspuliS
This I won't really get into, people can draw their own conclusions but I just wanted to make people aware of its existence. He didn't really do much and took up lots of space. He looked up beneather's post history which was at that time 3 posts. Forumite was also analyzed but it still didn't really say anything. He just states Forumite's posts are bad but does not actually analyze them or try to come to any conclusions. He also calls our DropBear put provides no discussion abotu the issue. If anything, the least scummiest thing he does here is post his top 3 suspicious people, which are Beneather (the lurker), Forumite (whose posts he claims don't contribute), and Varspuli (not sure why).
On May 07 2011 07:41 Cthsazsa wrote:
It's clear that Redtooth is derailing the thread and taking attention away from scumhunting by creating his own set of rules that we "have" to follow.
Just worth noting for future reference if Redtooth ends up dead. Or could just be scum clutter.
Cthsazsa then goes on to have verbal warfare against conversion.
On May 07 2011 14:31 Cthsazsa wrote:
redtooth has been constantly swaying our attention away from scumhunting with discussions, as stated by several other players.
DropBear did a nice job drawing a case against redtooth, so I apologize if I state things he's already said. But I feel I should at least post my reasons for voting him.
His posts are inconsistent. As soon as game started he was calling someone scum. Soon after that he posts a guide. Although this reason is debatable, it could have just been made to make him appear pro-town and to divert attention away from his quick accusation.
He's been distracting our attention since the game started. Mafia experience discussion, Newb guide, and he even created a set of rules, which we must follow or he will FoS us. That last one has raised my suspicion the most.
It could be used to distract us and derail the thread. It could be used to make himself appear protown. If that's the case, it has backfired.
This is his latest post as I began writing this. This confirms his anti-Redtooth stand which seems to be his first stand the entire game. It was his first actual semi-meaningful post in of itself. My raised suspicions on Cthazsa slightly ease my suspicion on Redtooth because of Cthazsa's stand against him.
Pretty much every other post besides the ones I quoted seemed to lack any important information. So subtract whatever number of quotes I have of him from 35 and that is the number of (at least in my opinion) noteworthy material. Lots of useless posts and he is extremely hesitant to make any kind of stand whatsoever until Redtooth. Even then, it is not very strong, lacking analysis as well as conviction.
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I supposed I slipped pretty hard this game.
Good luck all! I'm super drunk otherwise I'd be irritated :-p
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On May 07 2011 13:49 DropBear wrote:
What redtooth is doing is derailing town. Don't listen to him.
Before his big "reorganisation" people were looking at who voted for Kurumi. Now discussion is being dominated by rules on how we should post. He is trying to shift the focus of town away from scumhunting. If this isn't pushing Mafia objectives I don't know what is.
I urge everyone to continue posting analysis and prodding people. Instead of his rules, I offer two:
1. Keep it structured
2. Back it up with evidence.
That's all you need!
Continue looking at people, keep hunting!
I agree with what Dropbear is saying here. Redtooth is posting a lot about rules, and while it may look nice, they don´t help in scumhunting.
Earlier the discussion was on Kurumi and Irish, and since Irish came under suspicion, he´s stopped posting. Furthermore the mislynch of Kurumi seems to make people forget that once many actually considered Irish a stronger candidate for a lynch than Kurumi. We were wrong about Kurumi, but that doesn´t make Irish a confirmed Town.
Unfortunately I don´t have any evidence for or against, since Irish hasn´t posted since page 22!
My vote will stay on Irish_Punk13 until he shows up and gives a good explanation for himself.
#Vote: Irish_Punk13
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Australia4290 Posts
Node, you put out a call for subs. Is it possible to find out which players are requesting replacement and why? There are a lot of people lurking and this information is relevant.
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On May 07 2011 17:55 DropBear wrote:
Node, you put out a call for subs. Is it possible to find out which players are requesting replacement and why? There are a lot of people lurking and this information is relevant.
I´d like to chime in. I fear Irish is taking his "lurking to avoid suspicion" a bit too far. If he´s replaced then the new player will probably blame having to read through the thread, staying under the radar even longer.
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Australia4290 Posts
On May 07 2011 03:22 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 03:17 DropBear wrote:
Redtooth, if I survive the night, I am going to vote to lynch you as soon as I get to my computer.
If there are any detectives out there, check this guy.
If you force everybody to post exactly the same way then how the hell are we supposed to pick out scum? Your plan is extremely anti-town. By examining the content and merit of their argument. Honestly, isn't that what we want? We don't want the speechwriters or the rabblerousers drowning out the silently intelligent. A standard ensures two things: - that there is a minimum (not maximum) quality expected of the town - that there are repercussions for advocating misleading lynches Please, think through this carefully. If after considering it you still believe that it is antitown, by all means feel free to vote me.
This post redtooth is really confirming things for me. Don't want to drown out the silently intelligent? What does that mean? It very much looks like "don't too closely at anyone who isn't talking".
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Just calling attention here. Rising_Phoenix was the only player not to vote yesterday, and didn´t post very much, blaming it on too much to read. He was replaced by kevconsim, and here is his only post so far, at least since he entered the game.
On May 06 2011 14:36 kevconsim wrote:I would just like to say hello and that i think ur scum because you spelled my name wrong. I have been following the thread a little bit and will have my full opinion of people tomorrow but as of now and when i was told i could start posting. I AM TIRED
I´m looking forward to hearing his analysis of the game so far.
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Alright I have a theory and I strongly believe RedTooth is mafia:
There were some people defending kurumi, but none of them came out so strong, to the point of calling him obvtown, except for red. In the same post he sugests we should change to killerSOS, who had hinted blue at that point. I feel if he was such a great analitical mind that could see that obviously kurumi wasn't scum, he would have noticed that killer could be blue, and advocating his lynch on day 1 was a dumb move, unless you are mafia.
Then the post claiming not to know scum could pm amongst themselves. Again, if you are so experienced to the point of knowing kurumi was obvtown at that point, wouldn't you know that scum can exchange pm in this type of setup? It seems to me like a blatant atempt to look inocent.
Then he goes ahead and makes that post that says town is sucking and says only himself, jackal and iadnai have defended kurumi. So tonight the kills were jackal and aidnai, none of which were defending kururmi with such certainty as himself. Those kills pretty much draw suspicion away from him. It looks too much like a plan. I don't see any reason for mafia having to snipe jackal and aidnai, based on their posting. That's the only purpose I can think of for them.
He then posts his plan about organizing town. So I play along trying to find his true intentions behind it. If he was really trying to reduce spam and improve thread quality, he would be more flexible and make those a guideline, not a rule. I pressed him to change it and provided good reasoning and yet he refused to change his mind.
As I've stated most likely only a few will follow those guidelines as they are presented, and that would slip town even more, and cause good analysis to be disregarded and random fos to be thrown around for a group of people. He then, states he's tired from arguing with chaoser (huh?) and goes away.
I believe his plan was to split town all along.
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On May 07 2011 17:31 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 13:49 DropBear wrote:
What redtooth is doing is derailing town. Don't listen to him.
Before his big "reorganisation" people were looking at who voted for Kurumi. Now discussion is being dominated by rules on how we should post. He is trying to shift the focus of town away from scumhunting. If this isn't pushing Mafia objectives I don't know what is.
I urge everyone to continue posting analysis and prodding people. Instead of his rules, I offer two:
1. Keep it structured
2. Back it up with evidence.
That's all you need!
Continue looking at people, keep hunting!
I agree with what Dropbear is saying here. Redtooth is posting a lot about rules, and while it may look nice, they don´t help in scumhunting. Earlier the discussion was on Kurumi and Irish, and since Irish came under suspicion, he´s stopped posting. Furthermore the mislynch of Kurumi seems to make people forget that once many actually considered Irish a stronger candidate for a lynch than Kurumi. We were wrong about Kurumi, but that doesn´t make Irish a confirmed Town. Unfortunately I don´t have any evidence for or against, since Irish hasn´t posted since page 22!My vote will stay on Irish_Punk13 until he shows up and gives a good explanation for himself. #Vote: Irish_Punk13
lol. scum
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On May 07 2011 22:54 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 17:31 Forumite wrote:On May 07 2011 13:49 DropBear wrote:
What redtooth is doing is derailing town. Don't listen to him.
Before his big "reorganisation" people were looking at who voted for Kurumi. Now discussion is being dominated by rules on how we should post. He is trying to shift the focus of town away from scumhunting. If this isn't pushing Mafia objectives I don't know what is.
I urge everyone to continue posting analysis and prodding people. Instead of his rules, I offer two:
1. Keep it structured
2. Back it up with evidence.
That's all you need!
Continue looking at people, keep hunting!
I agree with what Dropbear is saying here. Redtooth is posting a lot about rules, and while it may look nice, they don´t help in scumhunting. Earlier the discussion was on Kurumi and Irish, and since Irish came under suspicion, he´s stopped posting. Furthermore the mislynch of Kurumi seems to make people forget that once many actually considered Irish a stronger candidate for a lynch than Kurumi. We were wrong about Kurumi, but that doesn´t make Irish a confirmed Town. Unfortunately I don´t have any evidence for or against, since Irish hasn´t posted since page 22!My vote will stay on Irish_Punk13 until he shows up and gives a good explanation for himself. #Vote: Irish_Punk13 lol. scum
Thanks for your extensive analysis =P
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As a dead player I can PM other dead players,right?
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Denmark1582 Posts
On May 07 2011 23:49 Kurumi wrote:
As a dead player I can PM other dead players,right?
You can talk to whoever you want as long as you don't influence the game 
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On May 07 2011 13:51 chaoser wrote:
Btw, though redtooth and I are butting heads, I really don't think he's mafia. His posts come off as strong and has a lot of conviction behind it. Mafia are probably sitting back and chilling out and posting without much content. Amber has been such a person. He spent his biggest post quoting previous games and his reasoning for voting Kurumi is basically "Everyone else was doing it, so I did". I'll write a bigger post about it tomorrow.
I didn't realize quoting old games was any less important than quoting peoples posts in non-mafia threads on TL.
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Just putting these here before Chaoser goes on his anti-Amber campaign. I would like to stress that Chaoser is tunneling me.
On May 06 2011 07:30 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 06:51 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 06:33 Forumite wrote:On May 06 2011 06:17 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 05:56 Forumite wrote:
You said you were checking Kurumi, and I assumed pissing off Kurumi and Irish refered to calling them out on their scummy behavior. AKA tunneling. See scumtells from everything I say don't you. Well whatever, I'll play along for now - I said that the act of pissing off Kurumi and Irish would have made me seem protown since they were getting bandwagoned hard and I would have fit right in with the rest of you all. Instead I kicked the beehive and now (somehow) stand accused of pandering them. I did check out Kurumi. Less confident that he's town but he's still leaning town nonetheless.
On May 06 2011 05:52 Mig wrote:
Red I understand it can be important to find townies but we have to lynch someone within the next few hours. So who are you going to vote for and why? We'll see. I don't like realvoting (as opposed to baitvoting) early, especially if I'll probably be around for the deadline and can actually make a difference in the count. If voting was to end 5 minutes from now, I'd put it on Chaoser just out of protest. If I had to be the tiebreaker between Kurumi and KillerSOS, I'd probably put it on Killer. If I had to be the tiebreaker between Kurumi and Irish, I'd probably put it on Chaoser simply because I don't want to be anywhere near those ridiculous lynches. Is it tunneling if you admit that I´m right, that calling Irish and Kurumi scum would be protown right now? No it is tunneling when you continually misinterpreting what I said instead of objectively reading it and realizing that it is referring to an era long past. Where do I say you're right? On May 06 2011 06:24 Cthsazsa wrote:On May 06 2011 05:18 redtooth wrote:
Ok I'm catching up atm. Chaoser I'll address you soon enough. But for now, I have no idea wtf Kurumi is doing and will have to re-evaluate. I'm still waiting for you to address him. You said in a post after this^ that he's scummy, but you didn't explain how. Instead you made an indepth post defending Irish and Kurumi. I've written a novel on it. It's on the NYTimes bestsellers list. On May 06 2011 06:30 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Redtooth, in your last post you said Irish AND Kurumi are town but provided no good reason for it. I want to know why you feel this way.
...
Now you are saying that Kumumi is leaning a little less town than before. Why? What changed?
I'm even getting uneasy with you defending me as being "to a lesser extent" town. Kurumi I think was the one who tried to get people on my case but he did not have any good analysis. If anyone else has issues with my play let me know up front what the problem is. I don't really think I'm being too defensive, but I'm keeping an eye on people who tried to continue that bandwagon.
I'm thinking it is likely that you, Irish, and Kurumi are all mafia. Maybe you are getting desperate because of the poor play of your two teammates and are trying to help them without seeming overly obvious while at the same time trying to shift attention to KillerSoS. I've provided plenty of reason for it. Less confident about Kurumi but still think he leans town nonetheless. The reason is that I thought he burned out after being pressed so hard and that fit his persona of being a slightly immature ADD townie. Instead he came back and spammed with a vengeance. Still fits his persona but a little less so. And you may be "to a lesser extent town" but you're town nonetheless. What are you complaining about? On May 06 2011 06:44 Forumite wrote:On May 06 2011 06:33 redtooth wrote:
I am busy today. We will probably end up lynching Kurumi. I was going to ask whether you would want to request a Day Vigi hit on Irish since you're so confident (70% is absolutely ridiculous IMO but you might just like higher numbers) but it's too late and our response would take too long. Worst case scenario, we fumble the lynch and do have a double-townkill round. Wouldn´t wasting a day-vigilante be a bit of a waste? It's not a waste if it's a 70% chance of scumhit. If I was the one pushing it, I'd take those odds anyday. If it really was 70%, the net expected results aren't too bad either: - 70% chance of occurring - We hit Irish, he flips red, we catch a scum we wouldn't have caught otherwise. Net of +1 at the cost of a Day Vigi shot. - 30% chance of occurring - We hit Irish, he flips green, we stop the bandwagon on Kurumi and save a townie. Net of 0 at the cost of a Day Vigi shot. I'm pretty sure we should save the day vig ability to find the GF or a roleblocker. I was entering the game assuming that the day vig was the role block counter anyway. I don't know if I want to bite on your analysis of Chaoser Redtooth, but I'm a bit weary of someone that comes in swinging on the first day with this much information about a certain player. Chaoser has really been digging deep into Kurumi and hasn't been letting up against other players. I almost want to see Kurumi flip to see how much we can trust his analysis. For this reason I want to see how well your analysis has been leading us.
If he flips red then I think it would be safe to assume that Irish Punk is red, Chaoser is green, and opponents of his analysis should be considered for lynches.
If he flips green then I'd like to see some better analysis from Chaoser during day 2. It's going to really impact this game if we listen to someone who mislynches over and over again. Also if Kurumi flips green this doesn't confirm anybody. Don't think joining a bandwagon is going to keep you in the background if you're lurking.Day 1 lynches are without a doubt the toughest to call, but I am going to vote for Kurumi tonight. I feel like he's more of a solid lynch candidate and his flip will give us more information about Irish punk. Also don't let the numbers dictate who is scum and who is pro town. I would like to remind the younger players that some of us have jobs and sleep at normal times. I play TL mafia from 5:30 - 11:30 my time and I have to catch up from a lot of pages of content/spam, even when I can read while at work. My posting habits have not changed during this game. If you didn't notice my posts, you have easy access to them via my profile. My analysis compounds over the days and I will be focusing on certain players once more information is obtained.
And after Redtooth posted in response to this post I gave a little clarification about my justification for lynching Kurumi. I was not just voting for kurumi because everybody else was doing it. This is probably going to be the last time I correct peoples ignorance. Please stop tunneling Chaoser. I'm not trying to point my FoS onto you, yet.
On May 06 2011 07:43 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 07:37 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 07:30 Amber[LighT] wrote:
If he flips red then I think it would be safe to assume that Irish Punk is red, Chaoser is green, and opponents of his analysis should be considered for lynches.
If he flips green then I'd like to see some better analysis from Chaoser during day 2. It's going to really impact this game if we listen to someone who mislynches over and over again. Also if Kurumi flips green this doesn't confirm anybody. Don't think joining a bandwagon is going to keep you in the background if you're lurking. I'm fine with that. Sort of surprised that you actually think Kurumi is scummy though. Well, once again, I doubt we'll be shifting votes anytime soon so he's pretty much a lock for the lynch. Off to study, bbl. Voting Chaoser in case I miss the deadline. He's using a lot of diversion tactics and getting really defensive to the point where he was analyzing players that were either targeting him or easy pins for inactivity. It seems like it's more pseudo-analysis than actual content. You know, posting just to post.
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Amber, what's your opinion on the redtooth situation?
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*sigh* Quality town posts so far. Town, is it so hard to understand that nighttime analysis is useless? That's why the time was better spent trying to prevent what is happening right now (~7 accusations in the first 3 pages, inability to track who's attacking whom).
Regardless, it's day so I can finally post my analysis. This first section will just be miscellaneous stuff. Killer was dropping tells like crazy and I crucially misinterpreted them as being scum instead of being blue. aidnai was obvtown and it's sad to see him go. Those two aren't very surprising kills given the advantage in information scum have.
Leaning Town
Regarding Forumite, I'm leaning more towards him being noobtown. His argument with me last day (about me calling for a day vigi hit and the math involved) exposed him way too much with very little attempt to blend in. Scum try to look town, town try to find scum (even if they end up looking scum in the process). Hence I'll probably just ignore him for now. Same goes with DropBear.
Kita is heavily leaning town (almost obvtown level now) because of his proactive behavior and because of this. The reason why I baited him was to see if he would jump on it. Like my methods or not, I'm going to be hunting scum fiercely so it'd be in their best interest to get rid of me ASAP. My admittance of having a smurf is perfect ammo to start a baseless lynch-all-liars bandwagon. Instead he just took it into account and dropped the subject. Kita, you get the redtooth seal-of-approval.
Nullreads
Yeah I skimmed through AO's argument. Just another useless quotewall sorry. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. Since his recent activity, I'm not going to vouch for AO anymore. No longer do I think he's a noobtown. But it could just as easily be on either side of the border of noobtown and scum. IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong but I really can't find anything in this PoS thread anymore) the initial accusation against him was because he was fine with killing Kurumi which is WAY more noobtown than scum. He's just another nulltell atm and could flip either way.
Chaoser is pushing Amber pretty hard but I'm unsure. He's had maybe three(?) posts so not much to go off of. Regardless, I'm suspicious of any vet who was on the Kurumi bandwagon and would like Chaoser to continue his press on him.
Leaning Scum
This one requires a bit more detail so I'll put it up on a separate post in a second.
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Some important posts to look at:
Jackal58:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2011 08:15 Jackal58 wrote:
Alright then. A little free time.
Chaoser/Redtooth - 1 of them is scum. Would be worth a lynch of Chaoser and if he does flip green vig Redtooth. I'm leaning more towards Chaoser being the scummy one.
sandroba - scum
GGQ - scum
Cthsazsa - scum
Eternalmisfit - scum
Chaos 13/ Irish Punk 13 - Leaning much more towards Irish. He's a very active player. Now absent.
That's the way I see it at the moment.
Sorry if I didn't submit the correct form. I couldn't find a "Tunneling Request" form
On May 07 2011 08:17 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 08:08 Kenpachi wrote:
Imo, veterans are justified in voting Kurumi. Because of what Amber just posted.
Others, not so much. I'm not a fan of lynching people because they appear wierd or different or stupid. But I can understand it. I do guarantee you that at least 4 on his lynch were scum. Hell maybe more. On May 07 2011 06:55 Jackal58 wrote:
First chance I've had to read this since my post this morning. I got as far as Redtooths requirements for FoSing somebody.
Sorry dude. I'm not filling out a form letter to satisfy your ego. Don't like it. Lynch me.
I may not be able to go through all of this before some time on Sunday. I'll be reading but I probably won't have much heart to put into it for the next day or so. My dad is dying and my thoughts and duties are with him and my family atm.
Don't replace me Node. This is my distraction from the real world. On May 06 2011 23:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 23:18 sandroba wrote:
The list argument is pretty dumb. If I were mafia I would NEVER want to see kurumi dead. He was basically doing mafia's job for them. He was spaming the thread, creating a lot of confusion and posting a lot of nonsense. There is no way in hell you could know for sure kurumi was town unless you were mafia. My suspicions are on the people who came to his defensess for no reason, because he was "obvtown". Seriously, you guys must be on a whole other level, because calling kurumi obvtown is like calling a rape a beautiful act between two people in love. Give me a break. But as town you wanted him dead? But if you were scum you would never want him dead? But as town you did? But as scum you wouldn't? So since you voted for him you're obviously town right? Because obvscum would want him alive? But you have no problems with voting for obvtown? It's not rape. It's surprise sex. Enjoy it scummy. On May 06 2011 00:50 Jackal58 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 00:30 chaoser wrote:@redtoothExcept I have focused on him? There's a certain thing called reading the air. I've already posted my thoughts on Irish, barely anyone responded to it and everyone seems to find it better to lynch Kurumi. I already consider both of them to be scum based upon behavior (Kurumi says to stop talking about me and 100% supports a lynch of Irish, AO accuses Kurumi, Irish comes in and chainsaw defends Kurumi with AO, Kurumi IMMEDIATELY switches votes onto AO) In this situation, whether we vote Irish or Kurumi, doesn't matter since 1) Both of them are acting scummy 2) Both lynches will be telling of the other person's alignment. The reason I push Irish's lynch is because I am more confident about his lynch over Kurumi's (70% sure vs 60% sure). Go reread KillerSOS' posts. People think he is scummy because of his line "Why would I want to be lynched, I don't want to die." Go reread his posts and decide if he's just a simple newbie or red. Either way, we can discuss his lynch tomorrow, after the night. About Irish. At the end of the day, whether you think he is mafia or not, he hasn't come back yet to defend himself at all. He has yet to explain his "Kurumi has made excellent analysis statements" and he has yet to explain his quick sudden suspicions onto AO. He literally popped in, said almost nothing, and then hasn't posted since. You're damn straight I find that scummy as fuck. I quote this line way too much but Ace, when he was helping coach Team Melee said: Show nested quote +Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself?
On January 10 2011 11:52 Ace wrote:
Sometimes it's just better to think of a simple answer. You have no idea what the Mafia know and don't know their motives. Hence it's just a simple decision on who is more believable here. About Kurumi. Kurumi is tied to Irish and you can see in his crazy convoluted posting that he's still trying to push the lynch off Irish. Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 21:55 Kurumi wrote:
It flipped so wrong,but so good after all.
My mistakes and weird play created a bandwagon which is such an easy way for scum to push lynch. That's ok. About my hyperactive posting:
I was really pumped out for my first Mafia game on TL,don't get me wrong but I wanted to flip out as best as I could,horribly failed though.
The biggest concern now is that I generated some kind of defence for Irish_Punk13 which was not my intention,also I got connected with him.
Even if You lynch Irish and he flips out Mafia I am DEAD.
If You lynch me,I am DEAD.
Who else can You lynch?
Well,entire society is now focused on me,Irish,AO.
It is very easy to make another same analysis post about how my or those two posting was,just take a note that does not certainly mean someone wants to help You,but just to show that Mafia cares to lynch someone who isn't them.
My derail wasted a lot of Your time and I am sorry for that,I might meant it,but I did not think that it would turn out to be discussion number 1.
Bandwagon is ready Scum,buy Your tickets,I am already cursing at You. No where in that post does he address the Irish issue. He doesn't explicitly defend him but he does insinuate that both of them are town. He passes off all the conversation on them as "scum forming an easy bandwagon". He states: Show nested quote +I tried making myself easy Day 2 lynch to try to reveal Scum,but I pushed it too hard,thus it is highly likely I will die this Day 1. but previous to this stated: Show nested quote +My mistakes and weird play created a bandwagon which is such an easy way for scum to push lynch. So did he PLAN to act as an easy target to draw mafia out to band wagon him or was it just mistakes? He's wishy-washy here. Either state that your posting was planned all along or that your posting was "mistakes", stick to a statement, not both. Could be all that. Could be just overwhelmed noobs. If Irish is scum he'll out himself. Cthsazsa already has. His response to my poke was over the top and quite extended. His post I poked him about was a pure scum agenda. His response was pure scum response. He constantly evades the issue I poked him on and shifts it to a not 'knowing the definitions of lurker/inactive" That's not the item in his post I FoSed him on and I told him that. Yet he still tries to deflect back to that issue. He's scum. I am voting for him and urge you all to do the same. I may not be back before day is over. I have to travel to Dallas. So I make my vote now.
Aidnai:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2011 03:30 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 02:38 chaoser wrote:... I ain't going to write "I, chaoser, blah blah blah". I will however, proposition this: Amber[Light] has been playing lurker-ish I'll come back to the Irish issue once he's posted and responded to our questions to him. Anyway onto Amber. Amber is a vet player, and he generally posts a lot. Not just posts a lot, he also usually very active in calling people out and making FoS's on people he thinks is scummy. Except this game he hasn't. Most of his posts have been either asking or answer questions; in fact, out of his 5 total (game relevant) posts in this thread, he's pretty much only asked and answered questions in 3 of them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#426http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#427http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#439In the two posts where he actually tries to take a stance on someone (In this case Kurumi), he pretty much says the reason he's voting for kurumi is because he wants information. He never outright says that he's suspicous of kurumi, just that: Chaoser has really been digging deep into Kurumi and hasn't been letting up against other players. I almost want to see Kurumi flip to see how much we can trust his analysis. and before, he questions where the Kurumi flip will lead: Back to you Airblade... My question is do you think creating a chaoser vs/with kurumi vision is going to get us somewhere? Clearly he doesn't really support the Kurumi lynch but when questioned on if he actually believes the vote though, he responds to redtooth with: He's using a lot of diversion tactics and getting really defensive to the point where he was analyzing players that were either targeting him or easy pins for inactivity. It seems like it's more pseudo-analysis than actual content. You know, posting just to post. Which seems like a throw-away reason. For that, I ask that Amber start to post more. His excuse that he's at work and so he can't do much is nulled by the fact that he generally posts a lot anyway as can be seen in insane 1, and insane 2. He hasn't contributed much to the discussion even though he's clearly caught up to speed and has been reading the thread. This same sentiment is also applied to GGQ. He gives the advice to DropBear: There was no need for a PbP analysis here, you just needed to tell Lyter to post more and explain his vote You need to better explain your reasoning for voting Kurumi (Pretty much that he was acting like serejai aka trolling and so he's probably scum) and why you're not posting as much FoS? Vote? might we expect a fullblown analysis with an accusation soon? I must say I look forward to it if you do it. Amber is certainly a scummy player and I plan to push his lynch today, but I can't tell if you're serious about him from this post. On May 07 2011 02:51 aidnai wrote:
dropbear, think how much better the thread would be to read if people went by redtooth's advice. It is protown. Please don't fight it.
The problem with the thread yesterday was that everyone was posting analysis, and (almost) all of it was half-assed and not even worth responding to. Therefore nobody was responding, so none of the cases gained traction (except kurumi t.t). In this situation, scum is not pressured, scum can make weak arguments, scum can wagon freely, scum can lurk without being punished.
If everyone is held to high standards, how are the scum going to contribute? if they try to do real analysis, it's either fake (therefore usually weak as well) or a bus.
BTW, you are one of the shining examples in the thread so far, i doubt redtooth had you in mind when he wrote this stuff. And he answered your questions already, read his posts again.
redtooth's initiative is a pro-town take over of the thread, get on board all townies.
On May 06 2011 08:44 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 08:15 chaoser wrote:
Also, where's Irish? He hasn't posted anything at all. i know, right? I'm going out for the evening, and since Irish hasn't posted yet, I will not remove my vote. Of the three vote leaders, I think Irish is most likely to be scum, followed by cthsazsa, followed by kurumi. See you guys later. On May 06 2011 07:49 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 12:01 Cthsazsa wrote:Hmm, this is my rather short analysis on Conversion, since he won't make one of his own. On May 04 2011 22:11 Conversion wrote:
I played in two games, BrownBear's mafia game (if you could even call that playing) where I was town and DocH's newbie mafia where I was mafia. Still pretty bad at this game.
To be honest I really don't have any opinions on anyone atm. I still think there's too many lurkers. The only playstyle I'm somewhat familiar with is Phoenix's since we were scumbuddies in newbie mafia, but he's not posting. Come out, phoenix! Too many lurkers? That's funny, because you've only posted three times since the game started. You refuse to form, create, and state your own analysis. Instead, you're lurking in the shadows watching everyone quarl. Kind of hypocritical, is it not? On May 05 2011 11:15 Conversion wrote:
jeez jackal and the chtzihfia whatever dude bloated the page count up.
look jackal tunnels people. stop bitching about him tunneling if you don't know his playstyle. it makes you seem really scummy when you spam up the thread with silly ego arguments. And you know Jackal's playstyle? Because in your last post you claim to only be somewhat familiar with Pheonix's. You also say you're still bad at this game. So you must be a newbie, no? If you've played 2 games and you're still a noob, how do you expect me to know how Jackal's playstyle is if this is the first time I've played mafia? And why are you so quick to come to his defense? This was a pretty good post cthsazsa, you should do more like this. I'd like to hear more opinions on cthsazsa from kita and chaoser. So far, I agree with jackal's original reasons for pressuring, but i kind of have a null read on cthsazsa's response. The fact that he's done very little in the thread other than one-liner spam defense + a brief spat with conversion is a big strike against. But I do like his post on conversion...
I'll just state this right now, I will be very surprised if kurumi does in fact flip red, and I wish sheeping townies would move their votes. There is no reason for a scum to attract attention the way that kurumi has been doing. GGQ's point about serejai is moot. There are key differences between these cases -- serejai was a hardcore lurker, kurumi is quite active; serejai was (and is) a big troll and is also demonstrably quite clever as seen by his posts elsewhere on the site, kurumi that I know of has no history on this site to make a similar conclusion; kurumi has been interacting with the thread, addressing current issues etc, serejai only did this on perhaps one occasion. There is also the language issue that makes kurumi's posts seem stranger than they actually are. And yes kurumi has made some troll posts, but that can be explained by frustration. Serejai made troll posts just because. On May 06 2011 05:59 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 05:48 Kenpachi wrote:wtf is going on guys i very konfuzed.. Kurumi is bad holy shit Lets point at someone else. On May 06 2011 05:40 redtooth wrote:On May 06 2011 04:29 aidnai wrote:On May 06 2011 03:08 Forumite wrote:
For trying too hard to defend Irish.
##Unote: Kurumi
##Vote: redtooth
(I´m posting in the other thread too, just wanted to be polite and inform people of the voting here too, since it´s easier to see updates in the main thread) Imo, it's too early to lynch a vet. Your point is absolutely valid however, and I would like discussion of this to continue tomorrow, and if we are able to flip irish today it will be that much more meaningful. Please consider changing your vote. Never too early, whether its me or Chaoser. QFT There is room for differences of opinion, but I would 100% rather lynch someone useless (kenpachi, takuna, lyter, etc) day 1 as opposed to a vet. On May 06 2011 04:29 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 21:20 VarpuliS wrote:
I'm on the fence between lynching Irish_Punk13 and Kurumi. At this point it seems to me that Irish is only scum if Kurumi is too. People are pushing a lynch on Irish because of the information he'll provide when he flips, but I think that we can get all of that information from a lynch on Kurumi.
Situation A: Kurumi flips scum, it is very likely that Irish is as well. We lynch Irish the next day, and we get our information, just a day later.
Situation B: Kurumi flips town. Irish is probably town, we move on. The only real scumtell from Irish is noting Kurumi's "great posts" which don't exist. If Kurumi is town, then Irish is just an idiot.
I'm posting from my phone, classes start soon and I probably won't have time to check the thread again until the afternoon. First, to address your line of thinking: lynching for information is a bad idea, that is not why we are lynching either player. Your situations and hypothetical ideas are in fact wrong, if we lynch either player, we will not get any reliable information for the next lynch. We get at most a piece of evidence that we'll be able to factor into a decision. Kurumi is probably town, based on two things: - thread response to pressure on him (easy bandwagon) - His posts are extremely un-'guarded'. Meaning, it seems clear that the last thing on his mind is trying his hardest to look like a town, which is actually the first thing on the mind of a scum. In this sense, yes, it is true that the most 'obvious' scum are often bad townies. Irish_punk on the other hand: - is ignored as a bandwagon target - his posts (what few there are) are in fact guarded, and now he's too scared to show his face around here. Please consider switching your vote.
Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 21:47 redtooth wrote:
@Kitaman - Well you can't blame me for RL obligations (I'll be less active during evening today as well). Anyways, it's not as much a scumhunting list as it is a townhunting list. At the top is Chaoser for all of the above information. Then comes KillerSOS because he honestly is making every noobscum action in the book without the orgy of information found on the others.
Kurumi, Irish, and AO are all looking extremely noobtown to me. Every argument used against them could be used to argue that they're noobtown. As I consider myself a player who could stand some improvement, I'm interested in seeing you differentiate killerSOS from kurumi and AO. I currently am reading AO Kurumi and Killer all as noobtownies, AO less noob than the others.
Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 22:13 KillerSOS wrote:
I'm curious as to what a noobscum mistake I made was. I must learn something productive today! (other than still working on my paper...) This seems like an extremely weird question to ask, but i'm interested in the answer to this as well. :/
Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 00:09 chaos13 wrote:
The style of game you guys play here is way beyond what I'm used to on UG, so I apologize for my relative lack of usefulness while I try to figure things out.
Kurumi has not done anything to redeem himself in my eyes. His posts have remained useless and confusing. I don't see what a townie would have to gain by lining themselves up for a lynch, so I think that is just his defense for being caught as scum, trying to make us afraid to lynch him so we aren't labeled as scum. If he flips red, then we can take a closer look at the people who are connected to him, such as Irish_Punk. He is standing out to me more than any other player so far. I find it suspicious that all you have done so far is defend irish and attack kurumi. Kurumi is in fact an easy target, so i can hardly blame anyone for wagoning him, but if that is the ONLY thing you have done, it looks fishy. FOS chaos13.
Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 02:21 DropBear wrote:
...
There are a LOT of people who are hiding.
Beneather
Mig
Amber[Light]
Kenpachi
GGQ
Rising_Phoenix
Takuna
Lyter
all need to talk more. The discussion is being completely dominated by the same few players.
My vote remains on Beneather.
added in Lyter for you. Would also like to add conversion to this list. Players like beneather and amber have been around long enough that I doubt they will be easily vote-pressured into appearing. I hope you'll consider using your vote elsewhere.
Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 03:00 Kurumi wrote:
Well about Chaoser as scum,they started throwing that when he posted a newbie guide.
I thought it is really dumb to say he is scum based on doing that and to spice things up,it was just the start.
Still I don't understand Sandroba calling out for help without doing any real contribution,why he goes after Chaoser (and the SC2 forums posting style) and this is mainly what makes me wonder about him. Also I think he changes his vote on me because he thinks it will be easier to lynch me. When I read sandroba asking chaoser for help, I understood that to mean that Sandroba looks up to chaoser. Asking for chaoser's opinion can help sandroba validate his own opinion about conversion and at the same time make a new opinion--about chaoser! I can understand this because I think and behave the same way in thread. When Chaoser didn't really buy the analysis, sandroba dropped it for a while, imo because he respects chaoser's opinion a lot. But he still brought it up later looking for more support, showing that he actually meant what he said in the first place. All of this is consistent from my point of view with sandroba being a greenie.
Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 03:08 Forumite wrote:
For trying too hard to defend Irish.
##Unote: Kurumi
##Vote: redtooth
(I´m posting in the other thread too, just wanted to be polite and inform people of the voting here too, since it´s easier to see updates in the main thread) Imo, it's too early to lynch a vet. Your point is absolutely valid however, and I would like discussion of this to continue tomorrow, and if we are able to flip irish today it will be that much more meaningful. Please consider changing your vote.
On May 06 2011 03:38 aidnai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 21:42 redtooth wrote:...
@aidnai - Then why is it that people are literally tripping over themselves to keep credit and align themselves with Chaoser? As for Irish, he obviously didn't go inactive as part of a combined scum strategy to get the heat off of him since there are no PMs. If you think Irish actually is noobscum and exposed himself to all those real tells, don't you think he would have done the noobscum followup and aggressively defend himself? (See: KillerSOS) Let's do a math exercise. Consider, as objectively as possible, the following and write down the percent chance you think of each event happening. - Whether Irish went inactive as strategicscum or he went inactive as boredtownie.
- Whether Irish did a genuine chainsaw defense or that he simply jumped at what he believed to be a scumtell regardless of the merit in his analysis.
- Whether Irish is actually noobtown with all his tells being explained by that fact or that he is actually noobscum (and somehow strategicscum at the same time) giving away a ridiculously abundant amount of information without being more guarded.
Analyze your numbers and if it still seems like there is over "70%" of him being scum then your math has been flawed. On the other hand, do the same for Chaoser. - Whether he has been actively promoting quality lynches or he has been promoting the easy-to-accuse-while-not-looking-bad lynches/FoS.
- Whether the fact that he has a pro-town reputation is due to his being town or his being a good player who traditionally looks pro-town.
- Whether he is a hard-working townie bent on finding scum or he is hard-working scum bent on distracting town.
This may not come out to 70% as well but it is just as likely (IMO way more likely) as Irish being actual scum. Also, RVS/RQS = Random Voting Stage and Random Question Stage. Next time refer to this. This made me late for work zzz. I think Lyter, Conversion, Amber, and rising_phoenix are all good lynch targets that haven't gotten much discussion yet. (For the record though, amber has looked scummy to me pretty much every time I've played with him-_-.) Do you really not find anyone at all scummy or at least scummier than chaoser? Also it seems you misunderstood something about PMs -- the scum team can most definitely PM each other. The single most scummy thing that irish_punk has done is go AFK exactly when the heat was turned on. This is even worse for him since the heat was, as you have pointed out, not a strong case at all. I cannot discount this possibility because it is exactly how I dodged a lynch once upon a time. Show nested quote +Whether Irish is actually noobtown with all his tells being explained by that fact or that he is actually noobscum (and somehow strategicscum at the same time) giving away a ridiculously abundant amount of information without being more guarded. Your maths game is biased by the way, sorry i didn't play along -_- Here's my own version: -is it more likely that a noob townie would skip the thread after facing a weak accusation, or a noob scum? In my experience, the noob is much more likely to respond with defense and increased activity. But a noob scum would have a team to advise that a better course of action is to lay low and let the thread move on. I believe that irish_punk is active lurking right now. His excuse for not posting was checking his other game, which means he's still online, still able to read this thread, he just doesn't want to post here. If he was a noob town, I seriously doubt he could resist the urge to post some response to this kind of pressure. Last -- I do not understand why you consider him obviously town. You also allude to him giving an 'abundance of information' and not being 'guarded'. Having read his (11) posts, this description does not seem apt, please state your evidence.
KillerSOS:
**Not much on him. His posts weren't as valuable as the other two imo.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2011 14:22 KillerSOS wrote:
I didn't have a solid target, but you can look back and see that I said he was town.
anyways, headed to bed. On May 06 2011 03:43 KillerSOS wrote:
That table does bring some interesting things into easier view.
First and foremost is that redtooth is defending both Irish and Kurumi, two of the most scummy looking players at the moment.
Honestly defending players is worse than attacking at this early stage, unless you are over the top with it.
On May 05 2011 13:02 KillerSOS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 12:58 jaminz wrote:On May 05 2011 12:47 KillerSOS wrote:
As much as I hate to join on the bandwagon, a vote for Cthsazsa seems to be a reasonable decision. Yet another post with no information/analysis. Why are you jumping onto the Cthsazsa bandwagon? Because the people who have provided analysis on his posts seem to be the most correct? Cthsazsa posts alot like me... short and numerous. For some reason I feel as though it might be the incorrect method of play, but it is enjoyable to say the least.
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^ Yeah definitely not tunneling. It's only tunneling if you're responded to him a lot (like me vs Kita, me vs Forumite, Chaoser vs me, Jackal vs Cthsazsa, etc). Chaoser has the right to press you and it's not scummy for the reasons you are giving us. Stop trying to play it off like it's a non-story, you jumped on last-second on an overwhelming obvtown bandwagon. It's not like your vote had any meaning at that point, you could have been like Jackal or Chaoser or Me and probed other suspects. I hate safe plays and that was the safest of the safe.
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On May 08 2011 00:40 sandroba wrote:
Amber, what's your opinion on the redtooth situation?
His analysis mirrors mine in most cases. I would trust him as a town leader more than Chaoser, and I'll stand by that. Though I will say I don't agree with his posting plan. The idea is genuinely good with intention, but it will choke the town over the next few days. I can't stand by that plan.
We share the same frustrations too. As I'm reading over his most recent posts he's also pretty upset with Chaoser and if I'm not reading into his posts too seriously he is suspecting him more than me. I don't know if Chaoser is just trolling vets or is just trying to get us more riled up but it's causing more and more people to consider him as a lynch target.
I think this post has a lot of weight to it:
On May 07 2011 04:33 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 04:26 chaoser wrote:
You guys do realize that talking about whether we should follow redtooth's strict ass guidelines just allows for scum to seem like they're contributing but not really right? I appreciate the sentiment redtooth but all it does is let people post a whole lot of nothing. That's suspicious yo. Analyzing any alignment right now is a waste of breathe. If anything, it gives scum an opportunity to manipulate lynches to make innocents look scummy. For example: Redtooth: Node is scummy! I'm going to lynch him asap! Node: Stfu no I'm not! Redtooth has been killed. He flipped green.Town: Kill Node! He had the most reason to kill redtooth! WIFOM ensues, followed shortly by chaos then scumwin.There is literally nothing that's needs to happen tonight that we can't do tomorrow morning with more information. That is why I'm not posting an argument against you right now because if I die or if you die then it is a waste of my breath. Alternatively, we can debate standards to set for town posting that will benefit us when day does come around so that town can hit the ground running.
Though it makes sense I think strategically his posts would have been irrelevent unless mafia chose to take out Redtooth. It would have made him look incredibly scummy. Think about it from another perspective. If you were mafia and you saw Redtooth accuse Chaoser and chaoser was red, would you still gun down Redtooth to "confirm" him using the WIFOM argument? I think posts at night are more catch 22 than anything else [damned if you do; damned if you don't].
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I know you guys don't care anymore but I'm still doing it.
I, redtooth, have given much thought to the following argument and have relatively high confidence in its accuracy.
Cthsazsa is SCUM
because of two reasons:
- Jackal died.
- He hasn't been posting productively.
The reason why we wait til Day to analyze is so we can do it with more information (instead of tunneling based on feelings). The aidnai and KillerSOS kills were perfectly within the realm of reason. The question is why Jackal died.
Last night I was thinking to myself that if I were scum I would try to break one of the three quality focused presses (me on Chaoser, Chaoser on Irish, Jackal on Cthsazsa) regardless of the alignment of the target. The reason why the alignment shouldn't matter is because the subsequent argument is entirely WIFOM so it derails the town no matter which way it goes.
However, I'm a bit surprised it was Jackal who died. Chaoser, when not pressing obvtowns, has been very protown looking almost to the point where he was Town God. I'm a polarizing figure but I hunt scum very hard. This gives scum the perfect opportunity since doctors aren't going to save us and they can knock one of us down before either gets any real traction. Also, it causes a WIFOM attack on the other ("See chaoser is green!" against me, "You killed redtooth because he was the only one pressing you!" against chaoser) so it's a double win.
On the other hand, Jackal posted a list of five scum he thinks he's found already. Anybody who posts a list of the entire other team isn't worth paying attention to (although among all of the fullteam lists posted, that one actually made the most sense in terms of intra-team alliances). Also, Jackal hasn't even been a big voice in town anyways and hasn't dropped any PR tells.
That means that the focus on Cthsazsa was broken for another reason since it clearly wasn't the optimal kill. The first and most obvious explanation is that the focus-break was an attempt to get heat off of one of the scumteam. This isn't too much of a stretch to say since he has beena cting pretty scummy so far. Let's look at the following:
On May 07 2011 07:41 Cthsazsa wrote:
It's clear that Redtooth is derailing the thread and taking attention away from scumhunting by creating his own set of rules that we "have" to follow. The problem isn't with what he posted. The problem is with when he posted this. Lynches aren't the only things with bandwagons and attacking my initiative is probably the safest bandwagon you could jump on. There was an overwhelming backlash but at this point everything that had to be said had already been said. Compare this behavior with DropBear, who I said is town. He posted ridiculous conspiracy theories about why I'm scum and he did it early and he did loud and he did it often. Cthsazsa, not really known for being too quiet and having a controlled ego, simply lurked in at the last second with a very subtle attack. If anything, something as polarizing as my initiative should have either had his full-fledged criticism or full-fledged defense. Something's not right here.
Also, there's this post. Organized scum dole out various roles to the team. If you think I'm crazy, read "Knowing your strengths and knowing your goal" here. Cthsazsa is the prototypical "get-them-emotional" type of player. His defense wasn't substantive at all outside of "You're stupid so you're wrong", aka a non-defense. Also add to this the fact that he had never posted a substantive defense against Jackal as well outside of "you're being an idiot". KillerSOS exhibited this behavior to a certain extent (though not nearly as bad) and he was a PR. Townies don't make moves like this and if the scum was willing to risk a hit on Killer why weren't they risking a hit on Cthsazsa?
For now, Cthsazsa is my #1 lynch target. I have others in mind but none as confident as this one. I will be on a bus ride 'til late night but if he chooses to continue ignoring the cases made against him, that's an easy kill.
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