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I just want to point one thing out, people overlook this 99% of the time when discussing balance, the current map pool is heavy terran favored, with a few exceptions.
Sorry , when I say terran play, I mean mechplay specificlly.
Take a map like Desert oasis, if this was the only map in the beta, people would be asking for a mechbuff, because its horribly bad on this map..you see my logic? and I think we can agree that most maps except DO and and blistering sands are heavy mech maps.
Even a map lke scrap station benefits mechplay imo, people say the distances are long as hell, but in reality its shorter base-to-base than blistering sands.
Also there is not much space to manevour on this map at all for Zerg, save the middle @ watchtower.
I think this is important to think about before we scream tank imbalance
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Sweden33723 Posts
Why is this locked? Feel free to re-lock whoever did it but post reason plz.
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Im a zerg player, and I think mech is fine.
Hell, I just watched TLO massacre a bunch of thors and marauders with ultralisks.
The units are there, the strats are there.
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perhaps bringing back swarm would balance rather than taking something away from the mech
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On June 22 2010 21:50 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Why is this locked? Feel free to re-lock whoever did it but post reason plz.
Is this topic still even relevant? I know this was made before the Seige Tank nerf...
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The whole "balance" issue has much to do with the maps. On some maps some tactics by some races will work better than on other maps, but the opponent must realize this and change accordingly.
If on map A the Terran can have his sieged tanks on lots of high grounds with a good view of the apporaching pathways it is ridiculous to think that you can win there by rushing him with Zerglings. If you stick to "your standard strategy" and do not adapt it isnt the fault of the units or the map, but rather the fault of the player. No one would build only ground units on a pure island map is the extreme example for this, but there are subtle advantages to certain units on every map. Kulas Ravine for example favors the useage of Reapers, so you have to expect them; it is also nice for Colossi, blinking Stalkers or sieged Tanks. Expect them to be used and steer away from Zerglings or other stuff that is weak against them and change your strategy accordingly.
Here Artosis - in his now closed topic of "Map balance - the worst of the worst" - is giving a good example of completely deviating from a usual build in order to counter the expected Terran behaviour:
2) you are actually saying to me over and over that mech isn't that good on Desert, and thus its a zerg map. IdrA and I directly disagree with Desert being a Zerg map vs Terran, due to the reasons we put. NOT because of any mech garbage, as mech wasn't even thought about in the creation of this article. Notice we even explained that SEn went 1 hatch mutalisk here because of how ridiculous it is to fight off a thor drop. In fact, so many people are trying to counter our well thought out arguments by saying "its a big map, thats good for zerg, its a zerg map." YES, big maps are good for Zerg. NO, Desert is not one of them vs Terran.
From a spectators point of view it is a good thing that such "totally different and weird maps" exist, because you get to see something completely different. And for the competitors it is good, because you get ripped from the monotony of practicing the one winning build for your race over and over and you need to think about matchups from a different angle.
On June 22 2010 22:41 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2010 21:50 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Why is this locked? Feel free to re-lock whoever did it but post reason plz. Is this topic still even relevant? I know this was made before the Seige Tank nerf...
IMO it was irrelevant when it was begun ... see the above. The nerf just made everyone panic, but "Terran mech" is more than just sieged tanks and so only a part was nerfed. Running a ton of ground units into a bunch of 10 sieged tanks is never going to be wise unless they shoot with wads of cotton wool. So all the whining about mech was a bit too much IMO, because it doesnt figure in how hard it is to manage and to get the right mix of units. With 2 of the three mech units being unable to shoot air there is a huge vulnerability and the question is only how if the opponent is able to use that or not. So the mix of units is the key and not really the individual firepower.
In Brood War the Zerg could assault a sieged position with Dark Swarm, but that spell is not in the game in SC2, so the Zerg have to get rid of that way of thinking. Sadly too many Zerg players seem unable to cope with that and whine on and on. They should try to find new strategies to cope with that absence instead of whining constantly.
There is a nice saying for all those whine threads about overpowered units or imbalanced maps or whatnot:
"Dont bring a sword to a gunfight."
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Yep I'd like em to still make tanks about 25 more gas or 25-50 more minerals, still OP for their price.
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On June 23 2010 00:54 FlamingTurd wrote:
Yep I'd like em to still make tanks about 25 more gas or 25-50 more minerals, still OP for their price.
Negative. They are fine as is. People are learning how to deal with the ( Ultras anyone? ).
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On June 23 2010 00:54 FlamingTurd wrote:
Yep I'd like em to still make tanks about 25 more gas or 25-50 more minerals, still OP for their price.
And while we're at it, why not double ling and ultra speed and remove terran all together? Wow guys, we're so good at balancing stuff.
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EPT
