EPTThe reaction you describe makes perfect sense so thanks
The Terran Help Me Thread - Page 428
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
The reaction you describe makes perfect sense so thanks | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 12 2013 01:06 Jockmcplop wrote: thanks for that thedwf. TBH i think i got to plat by playing complex openings because i believe that is the best way to improve. OK, so some additional information since you're among the braves. First, after gas rax fact the actual build order goes: 22 - 4'15 - Blue Flame 22 - 4'15 - Hellion (immediately go poke your opponent's natural/main with this Hellion) 23 - 4'50 - CC (slight SCV cut after 23 SCV) 24 - 5'10 - Starport 2X - Refinery 2X - 5'35 - Reactor on Barracks Since this build order is very tight on minerals you normally forgo SCV scout, but I don't recommend that for you; I tell you this so you're not surprised if you can't reach exactly those benchmarks/timings with a SCV scout. Sequence still stands. Second, if you can't rule out Banshee play, you have to get a Viking first (out at ~6'40) with your Starport and you need to keep your third scan if you can't rule out Cloak since your Raven is complete at 7'45 at best (land Starport on the Tech Lab). Against many openings you will not be able to safely get a Medivac first for an immediate BFH drop. Last, replays/VODs: as far as I know only ForGG uses this opening consistently at tournament level, so you might want to check his games at Dreamhack Valencia, e. g. ForGG vs ClouD RO16 on Antiga and ForGG vs Taeja finals on Ohana. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
The build order i used was from an MVPKeen replay, but that may have been from an older patch... This seems to be more efficient, so i will hunt down them replays and get practicing.. Thanks again dude you are very helpful indeed | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9768 Posts
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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llIH
Norway2144 Posts
Is it CC first. Then another CC before constructing barracks? Or 1 Rax FE then CC? (Since the barracks provide me with orbital command upgrade this is the reason I am not sure of the economical result) I didn't understand what the OP said. 16 OC vs 15 OC? Does that mean: "Is it better eco to get 2nd cc before upgrading first cc to oc?" | ||
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Lionbacker
United States47 Posts
I do not know how to micro versus protoss. I am always so far ahead in terms of supply count and army size, but they blow right through me. In terms of micro it seems like I have to.... scan to see where their templar are, snipe, emp, drop point defense drones, stim, kite, dodge storms,and repeat. Do I have enough apm to even play terran? It seems like protoss "A" moves and drops storms, which have a ridiculous surface area. Can somebody give me tips on how they assign their control groups and how they engage. I scan to see where the templar are, I go for them with ghosts to snipe them and then my ghosts get vaporized by their army. Now I have zero ghosts. Any specific advice would be appreciated. It seems like there is a secret I am missing out on. Thanks again for all your help. | ||
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DrDevice
Canada132 Posts
On January 12 2013 12:27 KAB00000000M wrote: I just looked at the question in the OP and the person who asked it asked it in a way that wasn't clear which question they wanted answered so Dwf answered both.I didn't understand what the OP said. 16 OC vs 15 OC? Does that mean: "Is it better eco to get 2nd cc before upgrading first cc to oc?" The two questions being: Is CC first or 1rax FE more economical? answer: CC first, slightly Is it better economically to make 15 or 16 scvs before upgrading my CC to an orbital when 1rax FEing? answer: 16, slightly | ||
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geokilla
Canada8245 Posts
TvZ how do I deal with the Muta-Ling? I can never deal with them properly... If I send my marines to one place to defend, they just swoop to another and kill my SCVs and tanks. Also when going 1 Rax FE, how do I stop 8 zerglings or a Roach-Ling all in off 2 base from penetrating my base? I had just a handful of marines and by the time it hit, I either had no bunker, or no units to deal with the roaches. TvP, how do I play a Protoss that rushes for Storms and Chargelots with Stalkers? I tried drop harass, but he was well fortified due to Photon Cannons. I rushed in head first and I got stormed away. I tried microing the Ghosts but I think I did more harm than good due to my God awful micro. TvT, how can I break out of a Bio-Tank contain? He contained me right outside of my base, thus denying me access to my 3rd and outside of my ramp. In the end, I had to rush in and well, you can guess what happened. | ||
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llIH
Norway2144 Posts
On January 12 2013 13:36 DrDevice wrote: I just looked at the question in the OP and the person who asked it asked it in a way that wasn't clear which question they wanted answered so Dwf answered both. The two questions being: Is CC first or 1rax FE more economical? answer: CC first, slightly Is it better economically to make 15 or 16 scvs before upgrading my CC to an orbital when 1rax FEing? answer: 16, slightly Thanks a lot. Now I understand. But there is another thing I am not sure of yet. When going Rax FE. There is a window when your barracks get finished and your bank is 400 minerals. Is it more economical to get another CC before upgrading your first CC to OC? | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 12 2013 15:52 geokilla wrote: Ok I need some major helps. I didn't play for two days and now I got a 6 game losing streak against all 3 races, thus losing my promotion back into Diamond. I was in Diamond last season, then for some reason, Blizzard decided to place me into Platinum. TvZ how do I deal with the Muta-Ling? I can never deal with them properly... If I send my marines to one place to defend, they just swoop to another and kill my SCVs and tanks. Also when going 1 Rax FE, how do I stop 8 zerglings or a Roach-Ling all in off 2 base from penetrating my base? I had just a handful of marines and by the time it hit, I either had no bunker, or no units to deal with the roaches. TvP, how do I play a Protoss that rushes for Storms and Chargelots with Stalkers? I tried drop harass, but he was well fortified due to Photon Cannons. I rushed in head first and I got stormed away. I tried microing the Ghosts but I think I did more harm than good due to my God awful micro. TvT, how can I break out of a Bio-Tank contain? He contained me right outside of my base, thus denying me access to my 3rd and outside of my ramp. In the end, I had to rush in and well, you can guess what happened. .... <-- for the experts TvZ 1) ..... (although to me marine/tank with some turrets seems logical, and if really needed, a thor will help alot) 2) Winning With Ease: Defending 2 base Roach rush (TvZ) and scout it! TvP 1) ..... (ive read a topic called [H] TvP: How do I counter High Templars?, that sniping the observers helps out alot, maybe ur micro is ok enough but u forget to snipe the observers? if he cant see ur ghosts he cant hit them) TvT 1) Winning in 40APM or Less: Defending tank contain (TvT) | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On January 12 2013 21:16 KAB00000000M wrote: Thanks a lot. Now I understand. But there is another thing I am not sure of yet. When going Rax FE. There is a window when your barracks get finished and your bank is 400 minerals. Is it more economical to get another CC before upgrading your first CC to OC? I don't believe so, no. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 12 2013 12:27 KAB00000000M wrote: What is the most economical way to go for 2 CC early? Is it CC first. Then another CC before constructing barracks? Or 1 Rax FE then CC? (Since the barracks provide me with orbital command upgrade this is the reason I am not sure of the economical result) I didn't understand what the OP said. 16 OC vs 15 OC? Does that mean: "Is it better eco to get 2nd cc before upgrading first cc to oc?" Sorry for the confusion, there are still mistakes and/or unclear things left in the OP, should be cleaned soon. On January 12 2013 12:29 Lionbacker wrote: I have gone from bronze to diamond thanks to these forums. Having said that I am back for some advice. I do not know how to micro versus protoss. I am always so far ahead in terms of supply count and army size, but they blow right through me. In terms of micro it seems like I have to.... scan to see where their templar are, snipe, emp, drop point defense drones, stim, kite, dodge storms,and repeat. Do I have enough apm to even play terran? It seems like protoss "A" moves and drops storms, which have a ridiculous surface area. Can somebody give me tips on how they assign their control groups and how they engage. I scan to see where the templar are, I go for them with ghosts to snipe them and then my ghosts get vaporized by their army. Now I have zero ghosts. Any specific advice would be appreciated. It seems like there is a secret I am missing out on. Thanks again for all your help. Check Ver's answer: + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 05:04 Ver wrote: A bit off. 1) Pre spread 2) Snipe/emp 3) Stim (this should happen above 2 if no templar are in the front) + engage vikings slightly beforehand. 4) emp 5) kite 6) vikings Stim, big envelopment, and making sure he can't land a storm are your biggest priorities. If you have lots of ghosts you can only partially kite certain groups back, while ghostless armies should kite nonstop unless he's mostly stalker. Taeja often uses his ghosts to absorb the charge and then pulls them back. You can also read another answer from Ver to the question “Generally, what is the best way to force a bad engagement for the opponent?” in the TvP section of the OP. Group controls: one for MMM, one for Ghosts, one for Vikings. Proper Ghost control is probably the hardest thing to acquire; avoid at all costs the mentioned scenario in which you suicide your Ghosts failing to EMP Templars in the back. Ghosts should be slightly ahead of your army but do not rush with them! Generally in high level TvP fights you will notice there are some skirmishes before the engagement, between Vikings / Stalkers and Ghosts / Templars, because both players try to weaken the opponent's army (hopefully removing key units from the equation) before fighting. This is usually what you want to do: neither rush nor fully commit right away, rather trying to get an edge before hell is unleashed from both sides. It's a bit hard to describe and you will undoubtedly fail a lot before managing to do that. On January 12 2013 15:52 geokilla wrote: TvZ how do I deal with the Muta-Ling? I can never deal with them properly... If I send my marines to one place to defend, they just swoop to another and kill my SCVs and tanks. Turrets for Mutalisks, walls for Zerglings, and leaving a handful of Marines in vulnerable areas as an extra defence. But the problem may lie elsewhere, if you're behind/outnumbered it's only natural you get dismantled. On January 12 2013 15:52 geokilla wrote: Also when going 1 Rax FE, how do I stop 8 zerglings Bunker after second Depot, should be ready by 4'45. On January 12 2013 15:52 geokilla wrote: or a Roach-Ling all in off 2 base from penetrating my base? I had just a handful of marines and by the time it hit, I either had no bunker, or no units to deal with the roaches. Depends on your build order, what are you playing? Give the exact build order, for instance if you're playing Hellions/Banshees dual gas before or after second Depot can make a big difference against such things. On January 12 2013 15:52 geokilla wrote: TvP, how do I play a Protoss that rushes for Storms and Chargelots with Stalkers? I tried drop harass, but he was well fortified due to Photon Cannons. I rushed in head first and I got stormed away. I tried microing the Ghosts but I think I did more harm than good due to my God awful micro. Too vague, need a replay. Perhaps only a bad engagement, perhaps other issues as well. On January 12 2013 15:52 geokilla wrote: TvT, how can I break out of a Bio-Tank contain? He contained me right outside of my base, thus denying me access to my 3rd and outside of my ramp. In the end, I had to rush in and well, you can guess what happened. Can't tell for sure without the replay but generally it's either a build order problem or inadequate reactions. What were you playing yourself, biomech or mech? I think the contain is an epiphenomenon, a mere consequence of the real problem which occured before in the game, so a replay would be nice. The main idea is that you need air control (Vikings) to edge forward in Tank wars, but contains do not appear out of nowhere in normal games so I'm fairly sure something wrong happened earlier in the game and your opponent converted his advantage into a contain. On January 12 2013 21:16 KAB00000000M wrote: Thanks a lot. Now I understand. But there is another thing I am not sure of yet. When going Rax FE. There is a window when your barracks get finished and your bank is 400 minerals. Is it more economical to get another CC before upgrading your first CC to OC? No, you will either be forced to cut your SCV production longer to get your OC the next 150 minerals or resume SCV production and delay OC until you get said 150 minerals without interrupting your SCV production, but it kills your build order. | ||
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Prixm
Sweden145 Posts
So anyway, I want to switch to Terran now (and yes I know, people say Terran is the weakest race but I dont care about that). So, what I would love is just three build orders that are up to date, one for each matchup. I've looked around alot and most seems so outdated somehow, maybe Im just looking at the wrong places. Anyhow, would be appreciated if I got a build order for each matchup that are up to date and I can just play for time beeing and just get in to my head and perfect them. Ofcourse from there I get more and more, but for now that would be very much appreciated. | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On January 13 2013 08:10 Prixm wrote: Have not played Starcraft 2 for about a year now. I was around mid Diamond back then, played Protoss. However, I want to come back and actually play the game more, cause I love Starcraft 2 and still watch it almost every day, but the game need so much dedication and I just didnt have time (I play to be good, not to have fun. When you are good, you are having fun, haha). So anyway, I want to switch to Terran now (and yes I know, people say Terran is the weakest race but I dont care about that). So, what I would love is just three build orders that are up to date, one for each matchup. I've looked around alot and most seems so outdated somehow, maybe Im just looking at the wrong places. Anyhow, would be appreciated if I got a build order for each matchup that are up to date and I can just play for time beeing and just get in to my head and perfect them. Ofcourse from there I get more and more, but for now that would be very much appreciated. Hello, I would recommend; TvT - 1 Rax FE into 2 gas into a delayed 1-1-1 (Can go Biotank or Mech). http://www.gosubuilds.com/terran-build-orders-2/terran-build-orders/tvt-double-gas-fast-expand-opening/ TvZ - 1 Rax FE into 2 gas into Banshee/Hellion. http://www.gosubuilds.com/terran-build-orders-2/terran-vs-zerg/tvz-1rax-fe-into-hellionbanshee/ TvP - 1 Rax FE into 10min stim/cs/+1 vac timing. http://www.gosubuilds.com/terran-build-orders-2/terran-vs-protoss/1rax-fe-into-medivacs/ | ||
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llIH
Norway2144 Posts
I am struggling against 2 base all ins by protoss. I think the reason I lose is that I don't scout properly before the push comes. I always make sure to get an SCV by his natural before 6 min mark. But I can easily hold a 4 gate with 1Rax Fe. I usually lose to a 2 base all in some minutes after I take my 3rd. Should I be able to macro up enough to beat him? Usually stalker, immortal, colossus in different numbers + zealots. rarely do I see ht used. Please give me some tips for beating 2 base all in. (Also for zerg's ling bling 2 base all in) | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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llIH
Norway2144 Posts
On January 13 2013 21:04 kollin wrote: Which 2 base all in from Protoss? 2 Base Colossus all in. Usually. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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