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On December 04 2012 03:09 MockHamill wrote:According to David Kim: Show nested quote +Terran
1. Redesign Thor ability/Raven seeker missile
2. Push early game Reaper a bit more
3. Hellbats better against melee units, not necessarily better vs. Ranged.
4. We'd really like to see more Medivac usage like we saw in Wings for a time in the past. Currently thinking on a cooldown based speed booster ability.
5. Buff Bio in the late game - with the addition of new units in HotS, we feel Bio in the late game is a bit weak.
6. Buff mech in general - we'd like to maybe test combining the vehicle and air upgrades at the armory.
Zerg
1. Hydralisk movement speed upgrade to Lair
2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration
3. Ultralisk changed to be good vs. all ground
4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily
5. Make it easier to unburrow and reposition Swarm Hosts
Protoss
1. Redesign Voidray - we're currently thinking of having the player choose when to activate the charge.
2. Oracle - pulsar beam would now overlap too much with the new Voidray, so we'd like to change the Oracle to be more of a worker harasser.
3. Buff DTs not necessarily for the DT rush case, but to have DTs more often in the late game.
4. Nerf Vortex - we don't like how all or nothing this ability is in Wings, and with new unit adds, we feel we can remove or phase out this ability.
5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play.
6. Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall.
These are our current thoughts for each of the races. And please remember none of these changes are final. Our hope is to move into the more fine tuning stages if this major patch turns out well. Source
Terran:
1. Thor with energy bar sucks. Raven re-design? All the raven needs is more accessibility. Corvid reactor increases raven starting energy to 100 thanks.
2. Reaper...what? I hope they don't mean to mess up TvT even more. Maybe he meant TvZ/TvP reapers? Don't like this. Same mistake as wings of liberty design. Make a unit useful in one phase of the game then it completely sucks later on. "Push early game reaper more." BAD.
3. Revert ridiculous bio flag that made archons essentially do +10 damage vs battle hellions. edit: the mech+air upgrades combo means bio players now will end up with 3/3 mech as well which is good. But bio hellion still baaaaad.
4. Hmm...medivac speed upgrade? Bio needs some attention in HOTS too so this is good. Is this Caduceous reactor? :D
5. yeah...with all the stuff from the other two races, bio would be left behind. Medivac healing rate upgrade? :D Increases healing rate of medivacs but uses medivac energy twice as fast? Like stim for medivacs :D? Medivac heals two units at once? One can imagine...
6. Hmm...about time they start testing this shiot. Better now then it's March and they put out their thoughts "um we realize mech still sux" -_-
Zerg:
1. Good, sup hydras
2. Muta...dunno about that. Giving a buff like this to a unit that was already previously massable...well i guess they want things other than infestors in this game after all.
3. wat
4. LOL. I will believe it when I see it. I expect Taeja to win a single bo3 series and they say infestors are fine, winrates 50/50.
5. wat, make an easy unit easier ok.
Protoss:
1. Sounds terrible.
2. yeh, it does overlap. Voidray wants his mojo back.
3. Give DT lategame blink upgrade lulz. But seriously wat? DTS are fine.
4. Tempest > everything, vortex not needed.
5. What he means guys is, they don't like how in lategame when the game stabilizes and both players are maxing 200/200 protoss right now can literally mass tempests and if the Zerg opts for any broodlords whatsoever, they are at a disadvantage. There's almost no late game composition from both T and Z that can beat mass tempest + templar intermingled with standard protoss stuff to be honest.
6. Sounds like a gimmicky composition, don't think they should bother with something like that being "viable." Just make the units all good and people will figure things like that out for themselves.
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MORE UPDATES YES!
combining vehicle and air...??? that will be VERY interesting, but I'm not sure I like that (it will help air and mech which is great, but I feel they should be able to have their own upgrades and still do well)
YES! Oracle worker harasser, building harass given back to Void Ray!
Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall.
I hope they're not going to make it viable to have 75%+ of your army supply in air units. I think it should be terran that can do that, to some weak degree. Though if they make air work for protoss, I think they should make air for zerg and terran slightly more viable too.
I'm guessing they mean that you should be able to open voidray/phoenix/oracle to do all kinds of interesting harass.
Hmm, no comment on the Tempest in regards to it being 4 supply and not needing a fleet beacon?
Buff mech in general, yay!
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On December 04 2012 04:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:MORE UPDATES YES! combining vehicle and air...??? that will be VERY interesting, but I'm not sure I like that (it will help air and mech which is great, but I feel they should be able to have their own upgrades and still do well) YES! Oracle worker harasser, building harass given back to Void Ray! I hope they're not going to make it viable to have 75%+ of your army supply in air units. I think it should be terran that can do that, to some weak degree. Though if they make air work for protoss, I think they should make air for zerg and terran slightly more viable too. I'm guessing they mean that you should be able to open voidray/phoenix/oracle to do all kinds of interesting harass. Hmm, no comment on the Tempest in regards to it being 4 supply and not needing a fleet beacon? Buff mech in general, yay!
Yeh, tempest is still > mech unless they are changing it to not be so good vs Zerg lategame, and not be so insta-win vs mech too. One would hope.
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On December 04 2012 03:54 Doko wrote:
NO mention of rocks, I'm guessing dustin hasn't been in the loop about these changes and most of them won't make it because lets face it... most of them are actually good for the game.
5. Buff Bio in the late game - with the addition of new units in HotS, we feel Bio in the late game is a bit weak.
Interesting... I wonder if they'll go with +light or +armored route or just do a synergy upgrade with say.. medvacs like giving them 2 targets healed at once or something like that.
That is a baller idea.
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Wow getting pretty hyped just reading that post! I think the VR change would be brilliant.
And those people whining about the carrier, David Kim already stated that the carrier clearly needs a buff of some kind, they just don't know how to do it yet.
The only thing I don't agree with is medivac/mutalisk speed buffs. The OPness of fungal is why you see less medivacs/mutalisk play. If they nerf the infestor by making funal only work on ground units you will see a lot more medivac and mutalisk usage in their respective match-ups.
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DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST
FIX
THE
FREAKIN
WIDOW
MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
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This might just be what HOTS needs. Right now it doesnt feel too different from WoL, especially as terran, but adding all these changes could really restart the metagame.
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I hope they bring back the reaper building attack, that is the most fun part about reapers, without it they feel like less efficient hellions.
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I really hope that ultra to be better vs all ground makes them viable vs protoss. My lord I would shit a brick if that happened.
I really like most of their ideas and will also be happy to have hydra speed before hive ^_^.
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well at least they keep trying to balance the game out, cant wait for specific information on buffs/nerfs. Faith in blizzard, slighty restored.
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Most of these changes sound awesome, can't wait for it 
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Sounds great! I play Zerg, and wholeheartedly approve of all the things under inspection. All that I ask is that during the infestor nerf, they don't take away the rooting aspect of fungal to ground units. Air units should be fine to move if fungaled, but removing the rooting aspect to ground would make bio balls nigh impenetrable. And don't say banelings because any semblence of micro at all from the terran reduces the efficiency of ling/bling trades quite heavily without fungal support. Any other nerf is encouraged however since the infestor definitely needs it. My recommendation would be an increase in IT energy requirement and taking away the ability of fungal to affect air units.
As for terran and Protoss, the changes are definitely in the right direction. Please remove thor energy completely though if the ability change isn't drastic. Also, widow mine. It requires change.
DT blink sounds like a great idea so cupcake to whomever proposed that.
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On December 04 2012 03:43 Tuczniak wrote:
I'm worried about ZvT bio. Vipers nor swarmhosts aren't good against bio. So if they want to nerf infestor, buff medivacs and biological hellbats, that all will make bio way way stronger in midgame than it's now.
As a Zerg I think theoretically pure bio can be beaten end-game without Infestor (well its been proven time and again anyway - at least at the current pro level). The real keys here are what are the new bio units they are adding and how effective are they vs. all things Zerg. I'm quite sure it will work out and hell I'll take this any day over the gimmicky Infestor. I can imagine things like a handful of Vipers pulling tanks or other units into the Zerg swarm to force engagements from the Terran. At that point even mass baneling seems quite strong.
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Any idea on time line for implementation, seems like they are running out of test time with release just around the corner
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On December 04 2012 04:50 TheLunatic wrote:
Any idea on time line for implementation, seems like they are running out of test time with release just around the corner
Before the holidays, so in the comming 2 weeks i suppose.
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On December 04 2012 03:09 MockHamill wrote:According to David Kim: Terran1. Redesign Thor ability/Raven seeker missile 2. Push early game Reaper a bit more 3. Hellbats better against melee units, not necessarily better vs. Ranged. 4. We'd really like to see more Medivac usage like we saw in Wings for a time in the past. Currently thinking on a cooldown based speed booster ability. 5. Buff Bio in the late game - with the addition of new units in HotS, we feel Bio in the late game is a bit weak. 6. Buff mech in general - we'd like to maybe test combining the vehicle and air upgrades at the armory. Zerg1. Hydralisk movement speed upgrade to Lair 2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration 3. Ultralisk changed to be good vs. all ground 4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily 5. Make it easier to unburrow and reposition Swarm Hosts Protoss1. Redesign Voidray - we're currently thinking of having the player choose when to activate the charge. 2. Oracle - pulsar beam would now overlap too much with the new Voidray, so we'd like to change the Oracle to be more of a worker harasser. 3. Buff DTs not necessarily for the DT rush case, but to have DTs more often in the late game. 4. Nerf Vortex - we don't like how all or nothing this ability is in Wings, and with new unit adds, we feel we can remove or phase out this ability. 5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play. 6. Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall. These are our current thoughts for each of the races. And please remember none of these changes are final. Our hope is to move into the more fine tuning stages if this major patch turns out well. Source
1.1 Why only redesign the Thor ABILITY?
1.2 What for?
1.3 Something I came up with: What about a damage shield that burns everyone striking the Battle Hellion?
1.4 What is the point of MORE SPEED? Do you honestly think that casuals can control that adequately?
1.5 Hmmmm ... why not nerf the "other units"?
1.6 Combining the upgrades for air and mech doesnt buff mech ... it buffs airmech.
2.1 If Hydralisks get their speed buff you can remove the creep tumor to take away the map hack for Zerg.
2.2 WTF? Mutalisks are fast already ... and look at 1.4 More speed doesnt make the game better ... only less controlled.
2.3 Zerg needs more units with "bonus damage" OR that stupid concept needs to be removed because it is actually "limited damage"
2.4 How?
2.5 Why? A cloaked "free unit generator" isnt good enough and it has to be really mobile as well? Makes no sense at all.
3.1 When to activate the charge? ALWAYS! ASAP! ... If the charge can be kept up only for X seconds it is a nerf and not a buff.
3.2 Why not scrap the whole Oracle because it does jobs which other flying units (Phoenix) are already doing?
3.3 Easy ... just introduce a 12 unit selection limit and force units to spread out while moving. No need to fiddle around with unit stats or timings, just reduce the unit density from "ridiculously high" to "reasonably low and HARD TO INCREASE".
3.4 Wow ... all or nothing is bad? You are catching on fast! ... NOT. How about all the other "100% effects" like bonus damage, Blink, Forcefield, Fungal, Baneling-rightclick-on-a-Planetary-Fortress?
3.5 Sooo ... Tempest doesnt counter everything yet? Better buff it quick!
3.6 Why? As an excuse to not fix the Carrier problem?
On December 04 2012 03:18 D4V3Z02 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 03:12 spbelky wrote:
O Dayvie, such good intentions. But does he have the tools and knowledge to pull it off? He's a genious compared to 99% of the balance whiners on TL and he made sc2, so I guess its ezpzlsqz for him.
Where is your proof for that?
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On December 04 2012 04:01 Roth wrote:
Somehow it is funny that they created good ways at deflecting harassement and now they want to buff things like Muta-, DT- and Bioharassement.
That's the best way to make the game skill heavy. Make nice easy niches for defending bullshitty mass harassment tactics but make well controlled drop/harass play good enough to bypass it.
I think they're hoping the Widow Mine sorts itself out too. Late game battlecruisers will be way, way stronger if they combine mech/air upgrades.
Also laughing at the usual doomsayers who are terrified of Blizzard messing up their build orders. Yes, Blizzard intended you to build more than one single scout Reaper. Deal with it.
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EPT
