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On June 06 2011 06:48 IzieBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:42 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:36 Asjo wrote:On June 06 2011 06:24 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:06 Asjo wrote:
I see this as a harsh prank by the girls, not a legal matter. Also, I think we have to consider that maybe the kid secretly liked this. The video aside, it's mostly playing around involving close physical contact with girls ...
The reason that people would react differently if it was a bunch of boys would only be due to rationalizations in regards to the sexual aspect of it. People interpret behaviour, consider what it might lead to, and act preventatively. Perhaps this might sometimes lead to an overreaction, but that doesn't mean that you should also overreact to a single instance of bullying by girls in the name of equality. As it is, it was a bunch of young kids acting immaturely and getting physical about it. Obviously, the school/parents will react to avoid things escalating, but as such there is nothing outrageous about the interaction.
I don't know if the comments in this thread about child porn are serious. However, just because someone underage is filmed nude, does not in any way make it child porn. Nudity is the most natural thing in the world. Child porn is about exploitation of children and the often sexualized depiction of such. I dont think youve ever undressed or have been undressed unwillingly in front of relative strangers have you? Try putting yourself in the shoes of the boy, 3 years younger and alone, in public, getting undressed while being kept down by the girls. Sure is quite a lot of humiliation in that. Something similar happened to me once, just that the people doing it were 3 boys from my class and they undressed me for practically everyone in my class to see. Believe me there is nothing to secretly enjoy about this at that age. Later on in your life when you might or might not develop kinks and fetishes is another thing, but dont tell me an 11 year old might be into humiliation, even if it involved being in close contact with some girls. I beg to differ about your last point. You can develop certain ways of relating to girls in terms physical contact, conversation, etc. At this age your hormones might be kicking in, and you're desperate to somehow get in touch with the girls. So, based on whatever experience you have, you assume a behaviour that allows you to do so. This might mean willingly engaging is humiliating situations of some kind and repeating this due to past "success". For all we know, the boy might have somehow tries to encourage the reaction of the girls, even if not this specific act. We don't know. But I certainly wouldn't count out the fact that the boy might have enjoyed it. The other you example you give is more clear cut. At this age, boys start getting more insecure about group dynamics and will battle for dominance. Your lack of power being so clearly displayed will certainly mark you. Mind you, it likely won't have any long-term effects, but you certainly won't like it. Even more so, the situation being designed to humiliate you (carried out for the audience), not just and act of fun/soperiority/venting, enhances this effect. Add to that the fact that most of us get humiliated terribly during our younger years, often against our will. More often than not, it does not weaken us. We learn from it and grow. It's an integral part of interaction at this stage, and if we never get to be foolish kids and act out all our ugly feelings and go through all the motions, there is little chance of use growing up as wise and well-balanced adults. This doesn't mean that kids should behave and treat each other well, but often this comes as part of a process. There will be bullying, people will act to stop the bullying, and hopefully everyone will learn from it. And who will act to stop the bullying in this case. Certainly not the people who think its okay what they do just because they were girls. Thats a double-standard, and sexist. Implying that the girls themselves didnt have sexual motives is just an assumption based on the image that young girls are SUPPOSED to be the innocent, while the boys at this age are supposed to be the ones that get ugly and try to satisfy their growing sexuality is sexism. If you stand for gender equality, you cannot stand for not punishing those girls the same way as if the situation was reversed. And even when i say i think gender equality is an important part, i would respect people more that didnt want the girls to get punished to just say they dont care about gender equality. At least that would be honest. gender equality certainly should hold in the job market (esp. white collar)... it would be strange to have unilateral equality...are we going to take away maternal leave, rights of pregnant women to not only breast-feed in public but just go shirtless? it's common sense that them stripping a kid against his will is different than 3 dudes stripping a defenseless girl (the latter case, victim has a high chance of getting hurt, murdered historically.) it's not just a video exploitation when the victim is female.
I find the way that you refer to a male being stripped as a "kid" but if it's female she's a "defenseless girl." It's almost as if you're blaming the kid for not being tough enough. Guys don't need protection, they can defend themselves. Even eleven year olds!
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This is disgusting. How the mom has reacted, how some people in this thread have reacted, how the school reacted and how the police reacted. Its all disgusting. If it was three boys doing this they would have been cuffed and taken to jail and probably much worse. I highly doubt the mother of a girl wouldn't press charges and say it was "just a prank that went too far." And it wouldn't matter if it did or did not happen on school property, if three boys did this they would be expelled. And if this had happened to a girl I doubt anyone would be like "herp derp derp she probably enjoyed it." When is the double standard for men and women on these matters going to stop. Molestation and rape are serious crimes where gender of offender and victim do not matter.
Disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
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Obviously the girls just wanted some action or they were going to show him how to work his junk?
User was banned for this post.
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Wow I only went to sleep for 3 hours, this thread turned 100% pro press charges pretty fast.
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On June 06 2011 06:48 IzieBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:42 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:36 Asjo wrote:On June 06 2011 06:24 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:06 Asjo wrote:
I see this as a harsh prank by the girls, not a legal matter. Also, I think we have to consider that maybe the kid secretly liked this. The video aside, it's mostly playing around involving close physical contact with girls ...
The reason that people would react differently if it was a bunch of boys would only be due to rationalizations in regards to the sexual aspect of it. People interpret behaviour, consider what it might lead to, and act preventatively. Perhaps this might sometimes lead to an overreaction, but that doesn't mean that you should also overreact to a single instance of bullying by girls in the name of equality. As it is, it was a bunch of young kids acting immaturely and getting physical about it. Obviously, the school/parents will react to avoid things escalating, but as such there is nothing outrageous about the interaction.
I don't know if the comments in this thread about child porn are serious. However, just because someone underage is filmed nude, does not in any way make it child porn. Nudity is the most natural thing in the world. Child porn is about exploitation of children and the often sexualized depiction of such. I dont think youve ever undressed or have been undressed unwillingly in front of relative strangers have you? Try putting yourself in the shoes of the boy, 3 years younger and alone, in public, getting undressed while being kept down by the girls. Sure is quite a lot of humiliation in that. Something similar happened to me once, just that the people doing it were 3 boys from my class and they undressed me for practically everyone in my class to see. Believe me there is nothing to secretly enjoy about this at that age. Later on in your life when you might or might not develop kinks and fetishes is another thing, but dont tell me an 11 year old might be into humiliation, even if it involved being in close contact with some girls. I beg to differ about your last point. You can develop certain ways of relating to girls in terms physical contact, conversation, etc. At this age your hormones might be kicking in, and you're desperate to somehow get in touch with the girls. So, based on whatever experience you have, you assume a behaviour that allows you to do so. This might mean willingly engaging is humiliating situations of some kind and repeating this due to past "success". For all we know, the boy might have somehow tries to encourage the reaction of the girls, even if not this specific act. We don't know. But I certainly wouldn't count out the fact that the boy might have enjoyed it. The other you example you give is more clear cut. At this age, boys start getting more insecure about group dynamics and will battle for dominance. Your lack of power being so clearly displayed will certainly mark you. Mind you, it likely won't have any long-term effects, but you certainly won't like it. Even more so, the situation being designed to humiliate you (carried out for the audience), not just and act of fun/soperiority/venting, enhances this effect. Add to that the fact that most of us get humiliated terribly during our younger years, often against our will. More often than not, it does not weaken us. We learn from it and grow. It's an integral part of interaction at this stage, and if we never get to be foolish kids and act out all our ugly feelings and go through all the motions, there is little chance of use growing up as wise and well-balanced adults. This doesn't mean that kids should behave and treat each other well, but often this comes as part of a process. There will be bullying, people will act to stop the bullying, and hopefully everyone will learn from it. And who will act to stop the bullying in this case. Certainly not the people who think its okay what they do just because they were girls. Thats a double-standard, and sexist. Implying that the girls themselves didnt have sexual motives is just an assumption based on the image that young girls are SUPPOSED to be the innocent, while the boys at this age are supposed to be the ones that get ugly and try to satisfy their growing sexuality is sexism. If you stand for gender equality, you cannot stand for not punishing those girls the same way as if the situation was reversed. And even when i say i think gender equality is an important part, i would respect people more that didnt want the girls to get punished to just say they dont care about gender equality. At least that would be honest. gender equality certainly should hold in the job market (esp. white collar)... it would be strange to have unilateral equality though...are we going to take away maternal leave, rights of pregnant women to not only breast-feed in public but just go shirtless? it's common sense that them stripping a kid against his will is different than 3 dudes stripping a defenseless girl (the latter case, victim has a high chance of getting hurt, murdered historically.) it's not just a video exploitation when the victim is female. yes, let's just forget everything about anatomy.
I don't know what your trying to say... ? Are you saying this is OK, but if it was 3 boys doing it to 1 girl then it wouldn't be OK and would also turn out to be murder, or brutally assaulted? If that is what you are saying.... you need help.
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On June 06 2011 06:46 shinosai wrote:
As far as legislation goes, in general nudity, unless classified as art, is typically considered to be sexual in nature. When you see a dick or boobs in a movie, that's adult/sexual content, even if all they're doing is taking a shower. I don't really see how stripping someone over the age of 5 in public can be considered anything but sexual.
As such, "sexual" is just a word. It has been given meaning by legislation to make it useful in a context. For instance, when it comes to sexual harassment in the work place, you have to apply the rules very broadly because it otherwise would be too hard to rule on a case. You do this because protecting the rights of someone on the work market is a very sensitive subject due to the constraints that this context provides. People are dependant on their wages and can be contractually obligated in various ways, which creates a power different that can make it very hard to clearly communicate and protest sexual harassment.
As such, there is nothing wrong with a film of a young kid taking a shower, as long as you had the right to film it and don't use it for unlawful purposes (specifically in a context of child pornography).
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On June 06 2011 06:58 gold_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:48 IzieBoy wrote:On June 06 2011 06:42 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:36 Asjo wrote:On June 06 2011 06:24 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:06 Asjo wrote:
I see this as a harsh prank by the girls, not a legal matter. Also, I think we have to consider that maybe the kid secretly liked this. The video aside, it's mostly playing around involving close physical contact with girls ...
The reason that people would react differently if it was a bunch of boys would only be due to rationalizations in regards to the sexual aspect of it. People interpret behaviour, consider what it might lead to, and act preventatively. Perhaps this might sometimes lead to an overreaction, but that doesn't mean that you should also overreact to a single instance of bullying by girls in the name of equality. As it is, it was a bunch of young kids acting immaturely and getting physical about it. Obviously, the school/parents will react to avoid things escalating, but as such there is nothing outrageous about the interaction.
I don't know if the comments in this thread about child porn are serious. However, just because someone underage is filmed nude, does not in any way make it child porn. Nudity is the most natural thing in the world. Child porn is about exploitation of children and the often sexualized depiction of such. I dont think youve ever undressed or have been undressed unwillingly in front of relative strangers have you? Try putting yourself in the shoes of the boy, 3 years younger and alone, in public, getting undressed while being kept down by the girls. Sure is quite a lot of humiliation in that. Something similar happened to me once, just that the people doing it were 3 boys from my class and they undressed me for practically everyone in my class to see. Believe me there is nothing to secretly enjoy about this at that age. Later on in your life when you might or might not develop kinks and fetishes is another thing, but dont tell me an 11 year old might be into humiliation, even if it involved being in close contact with some girls. I beg to differ about your last point. You can develop certain ways of relating to girls in terms physical contact, conversation, etc. At this age your hormones might be kicking in, and you're desperate to somehow get in touch with the girls. So, based on whatever experience you have, you assume a behaviour that allows you to do so. This might mean willingly engaging is humiliating situations of some kind and repeating this due to past "success". For all we know, the boy might have somehow tries to encourage the reaction of the girls, even if not this specific act. We don't know. But I certainly wouldn't count out the fact that the boy might have enjoyed it. The other you example you give is more clear cut. At this age, boys start getting more insecure about group dynamics and will battle for dominance. Your lack of power being so clearly displayed will certainly mark you. Mind you, it likely won't have any long-term effects, but you certainly won't like it. Even more so, the situation being designed to humiliate you (carried out for the audience), not just and act of fun/soperiority/venting, enhances this effect. Add to that the fact that most of us get humiliated terribly during our younger years, often against our will. More often than not, it does not weaken us. We learn from it and grow. It's an integral part of interaction at this stage, and if we never get to be foolish kids and act out all our ugly feelings and go through all the motions, there is little chance of use growing up as wise and well-balanced adults. This doesn't mean that kids should behave and treat each other well, but often this comes as part of a process. There will be bullying, people will act to stop the bullying, and hopefully everyone will learn from it. And who will act to stop the bullying in this case. Certainly not the people who think its okay what they do just because they were girls. Thats a double-standard, and sexist. Implying that the girls themselves didnt have sexual motives is just an assumption based on the image that young girls are SUPPOSED to be the innocent, while the boys at this age are supposed to be the ones that get ugly and try to satisfy their growing sexuality is sexism. If you stand for gender equality, you cannot stand for not punishing those girls the same way as if the situation was reversed. And even when i say i think gender equality is an important part, i would respect people more that didnt want the girls to get punished to just say they dont care about gender equality. At least that would be honest. gender equality certainly should hold in the job market (esp. white collar)... it would be strange to have unilateral equality though...are we going to take away maternal leave, rights of pregnant women to not only breast-feed in public but just go shirtless? it's common sense that them stripping a kid against his will is different than 3 dudes stripping a defenseless girl (the latter case, victim has a high chance of getting hurt, murdered historically.) it's not just a video exploitation when the victim is female. yes, let's just forget everything about anatomy. I don't know what your trying to say... ? Are you saying this is OK, but if it was 3 boys doing it to 1 girl then it wouldn't be OK and would also turn out to be murder, or brutally assaulted? If that is what you are saying.... you need help.
so what i understand is this is an EQUAL event as 3 boys bullying a girl in the same way, because we all know that girls rape and murder little defenseless boys and that this happens every single day. i guess we have different realities.
i would love to stick to absolutism... but i do agree the mother should press charges for bullying, and child pornography/voyeurism maybe (what's that law for displaying stuff on the internet without consent)
i'm just sick of people arguing off-tangently about equality and double-standards... i mean come on... use some sense please.
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On June 06 2011 06:56 NinjaDrone wrote:
And if this had happened to a girl I doubt anyone would be like "herp derp derp she probably enjoyed it." When is the double standard for men and women on these matters going to stop. Molestation and rape are serious crimes where gender of offender and victim do not matter.
Of course they wouldn't. They would interpret it differently, based on their experience and knowledge. They would know that girls at that age are extremely sensitive (developing identity, emotionally fragile, etc.) and are conscious about physical things. As they generally place more weight on appearances, they would not only see the display as a humiliating one, but one that changes their self-image. There is more of a chance that this would affect a girl's relation to the other gender (with boys often being more motivated to get to know the other gender while girls are more held back) and that being overpowered physically would make her very uneasy in the future (unlike for boys, who likely will have experienced this frequently).
Needless to say, we don't actually know. We base our interpretation on what we can see and what we have experienced. In our case, we don't know much, since we didn't see the incident, don't fully understand the context and don't know the people involved. It has nothing to do with double standards, and I'm sure people would react strongly if the girls actually did rape the boy or something to that effect (if not, at least, then you can talk about double standards). As of now, nothing happened that requires legal involvement.
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On June 06 2011 07:10 IzieBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:58 gold_ wrote:On June 06 2011 06:48 IzieBoy wrote:On June 06 2011 06:42 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:36 Asjo wrote:On June 06 2011 06:24 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:06 Asjo wrote:
I see this as a harsh prank by the girls, not a legal matter. Also, I think we have to consider that maybe the kid secretly liked this. The video aside, it's mostly playing around involving close physical contact with girls ...
The reason that people would react differently if it was a bunch of boys would only be due to rationalizations in regards to the sexual aspect of it. People interpret behaviour, consider what it might lead to, and act preventatively. Perhaps this might sometimes lead to an overreaction, but that doesn't mean that you should also overreact to a single instance of bullying by girls in the name of equality. As it is, it was a bunch of young kids acting immaturely and getting physical about it. Obviously, the school/parents will react to avoid things escalating, but as such there is nothing outrageous about the interaction.
I don't know if the comments in this thread about child porn are serious. However, just because someone underage is filmed nude, does not in any way make it child porn. Nudity is the most natural thing in the world. Child porn is about exploitation of children and the often sexualized depiction of such. I dont think youve ever undressed or have been undressed unwillingly in front of relative strangers have you? Try putting yourself in the shoes of the boy, 3 years younger and alone, in public, getting undressed while being kept down by the girls. Sure is quite a lot of humiliation in that. Something similar happened to me once, just that the people doing it were 3 boys from my class and they undressed me for practically everyone in my class to see. Believe me there is nothing to secretly enjoy about this at that age. Later on in your life when you might or might not develop kinks and fetishes is another thing, but dont tell me an 11 year old might be into humiliation, even if it involved being in close contact with some girls. I beg to differ about your last point. You can develop certain ways of relating to girls in terms physical contact, conversation, etc. At this age your hormones might be kicking in, and you're desperate to somehow get in touch with the girls. So, based on whatever experience you have, you assume a behaviour that allows you to do so. This might mean willingly engaging is humiliating situations of some kind and repeating this due to past "success". For all we know, the boy might have somehow tries to encourage the reaction of the girls, even if not this specific act. We don't know. But I certainly wouldn't count out the fact that the boy might have enjoyed it. The other you example you give is more clear cut. At this age, boys start getting more insecure about group dynamics and will battle for dominance. Your lack of power being so clearly displayed will certainly mark you. Mind you, it likely won't have any long-term effects, but you certainly won't like it. Even more so, the situation being designed to humiliate you (carried out for the audience), not just and act of fun/soperiority/venting, enhances this effect. Add to that the fact that most of us get humiliated terribly during our younger years, often against our will. More often than not, it does not weaken us. We learn from it and grow. It's an integral part of interaction at this stage, and if we never get to be foolish kids and act out all our ugly feelings and go through all the motions, there is little chance of use growing up as wise and well-balanced adults. This doesn't mean that kids should behave and treat each other well, but often this comes as part of a process. There will be bullying, people will act to stop the bullying, and hopefully everyone will learn from it. And who will act to stop the bullying in this case. Certainly not the people who think its okay what they do just because they were girls. Thats a double-standard, and sexist. Implying that the girls themselves didnt have sexual motives is just an assumption based on the image that young girls are SUPPOSED to be the innocent, while the boys at this age are supposed to be the ones that get ugly and try to satisfy their growing sexuality is sexism. If you stand for gender equality, you cannot stand for not punishing those girls the same way as if the situation was reversed. And even when i say i think gender equality is an important part, i would respect people more that didnt want the girls to get punished to just say they dont care about gender equality. At least that would be honest. gender equality certainly should hold in the job market (esp. white collar)... it would be strange to have unilateral equality though...are we going to take away maternal leave, rights of pregnant women to not only breast-feed in public but just go shirtless? it's common sense that them stripping a kid against his will is different than 3 dudes stripping a defenseless girl (the latter case, victim has a high chance of getting hurt, murdered historically.) it's not just a video exploitation when the victim is female. yes, let's just forget everything about anatomy. I don't know what your trying to say... ? Are you saying this is OK, but if it was 3 boys doing it to 1 girl then it wouldn't be OK and would also turn out to be murder, or brutally assaulted? If that is what you are saying.... you need help. so what i understand is this is an EQUAL event as 3 boys bullying a girl in the same way, because we all know that girls rape and murder little defenseless boys and that this happens every single day. i guess we have different realities.
Sorry buddy, too much Law & Order SVU for you! Your thinking is total nonsense, Olivia Benson.
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Seriously, you wanna know my take on this? Stand up for yourself, take care of your own life. I never let bullies bully me and I never made myself a victim. If you're ganged up on then put up a fight. I've lost plenty of fights but I never backed down and I always went out with getting a punch in somewhere and I'll guarantee that that person will always remember his broken nose next time he tries to cause trouble.
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Why does disrespect for others has to start ever so early? 
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On June 06 2011 06:32 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:15 Brethern wrote:
There's the contact info for the girls school. I suggest we all give them a call and ask the principal why he allows girls like that in his school. This isn't 4 chan and I highly doubt spamming their phone line will accomplish very much. Why blame the school, they can't do anything if it happened off school grounds.
I got suspended from school for punching out a student even though I was no where near school property.
And I didn't say anything about spamming their phone line. Just a nice question asking why they preach about parents disciplining their kids on their site yet we hear nothing about what the school says.
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On June 06 2011 07:14 Brethern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:32 shinosai wrote:On June 06 2011 06:15 Brethern wrote:
There's the contact info for the girls school. I suggest we all give them a call and ask the principal why he allows girls like that in his school. This isn't 4 chan and I highly doubt spamming their phone line will accomplish very much. Why blame the school, they can't do anything if it happened off school grounds. I got suspended from school for punching out a student even though I was no where near school property. And I didn't say anything about spamming their phone line. Just a nice question asking why they preach about parents disciplining their kids on their site yet we hear nothing about what the school says.
Yeh I agree that is really weird, people at my schools have been repremanded, supsended and even expelled for things they've done well away from school property.
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On June 06 2011 07:14 Brethern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:32 shinosai wrote:On June 06 2011 06:15 Brethern wrote:
There's the contact info for the girls school. I suggest we all give them a call and ask the principal why he allows girls like that in his school. This isn't 4 chan and I highly doubt spamming their phone line will accomplish very much. Why blame the school, they can't do anything if it happened off school grounds. I got suspended from school for punching out a student even though I was no where near school property. And I didn't say anything about spamming their phone line. Just a nice question asking why they preach about parents disciplining their kids on their site yet we hear nothing about what the school says.
Different laws for different schools since the law varies based on where you live. Where I live you can also get punished for fighting off school grounds, but this does not appear to be the case here. As for not saying anything about spamming their phone line: When you post a phone number on a website where thousands of people will see it (at this point this thread has been viewed 41,000 times) and ask everyone to call them, what exactly do you think will happen to their phone line? Spam.
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On June 06 2011 07:11 Asjo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:56 NinjaDrone wrote:
And if this had happened to a girl I doubt anyone would be like "herp derp derp she probably enjoyed it." When is the double standard for men and women on these matters going to stop. Molestation and rape are serious crimes where gender of offender and victim do not matter. Of course they wouldn't. They would interpret it differently, based on their experience and knowledge. They would know that girls at that age are extremely sensitive (developing identity, emotionally fragile, etc.) and are conscious about physical things. As they generally place more weight on appearances, they would not only see the display as a humiliating one, but one that changes their self-image. There is more of a chance that this would affect a girl's relation to the other gender (with boys often being more motivated to get to know the other gender while girls are more held back) and that being overpowered physically would make her very uneasy in the future (unlike for boys, who likely will have experienced this frequently). Needless to say, we don't actually know. We base our interpretation on what we can see and what we have experienced. In our case, we don't know much, since we didn't see the incident, don't fully understand the context and don't know the people involved. It has nothing to do with double standards, and I'm sure people would react strongly if the girls actually did rape the boy or something to that effect (if not, at least, then you can talk about double standards). As of now, nothing happened that requires legal involvement.
Can you cite a fucking source? I don't understand where people are getting all this shit from...
So if a guy does it the girl has more of a chance to be traumatized and scarred than if a girl does it to a guy? I don't believe this assumption is true, particularly at that age. Also, I don't know about this "Boys are more motivated to get to know the other gender", there is timidness and openness on both sides.
I also really disagree with the person who said that one is more likely to end in murder or what not, once again, I don't know about that...
Also, the doubt standard still exist because we're talking about a situation where boys strip a girl in a similar fashion to this, not in a situation where they rape a girl. And this is still a legal matter, if you watch the video it involves assault.
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Those moronic girls deserve to be punished. Literally.
Joking aside, I can understand how if the roles were reversed, it's most likely "sexual intention", but if it wasn't, would the result be the same as this case?
Probably not. They should be punished for this... -_-
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its pretty sexist..
i mean if boys did that to a girl parents around the world would rage to get the boys tried as adults.
it would be international news.
the fact its not the same for girls doing it to a boy is so sexist its disgusting.
and we wonder why we roll our eyes at the word "feminism"
someone else this post wrote it best:
women want to be treated fair right?
these girls DESERVE juvy. they posted the video to humiliate the kid. AND HES 11 like come on.
no one can say that its more traumatizing for a girl than a boy, there's no scientific or anthropological proof. we can just say its less likely for females to gang on a boy than vice versa.
its like female rape, seriously unlikely, but i'm sure it happens.
if i was that 11 yr old, i'd have a baseball bat with me and the next day it'd meet some faces.
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On June 06 2011 07:33 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 07:11 Asjo wrote:On June 06 2011 06:56 NinjaDrone wrote:
And if this had happened to a girl I doubt anyone would be like "herp derp derp she probably enjoyed it." When is the double standard for men and women on these matters going to stop. Molestation and rape are serious crimes where gender of offender and victim do not matter. Of course they wouldn't. They would interpret it differently, based on their experience and knowledge. They would know that girls at that age are extremely sensitive (developing identity, emotionally fragile, etc.) and are conscious about physical things. As they generally place more weight on appearances, they would not only see the display as a humiliating one, but one that changes their self-image. There is more of a chance that this would affect a girl's relation to the other gender (with boys often being more motivated to get to know the other gender while girls are more held back) and that being overpowered physically would make her very uneasy in the future (unlike for boys, who likely will have experienced this frequently). Needless to say, we don't actually know. We base our interpretation on what we can see and what we have experienced. In our case, we don't know much, since we didn't see the incident, don't fully understand the context and don't know the people involved. It has nothing to do with double standards, and I'm sure people would react strongly if the girls actually did rape the boy or something to that effect (if not, at least, then you can talk about double standards). As of now, nothing happened that requires legal involvement. Can you cite a fucking source? I don't understand where people are getting all this shit from... So if a guy does it the girl has more of a chance to be traumatized and scarred than if a girl does it to a guy? I don't believe this assumption is true, particularly at that age. Also, I don't know about this "Boys are more motivated to get to know the other gender", there is timidness and openness on both sides. I also really disagree with the person who said that one is more likely to end in murder or what not, once again, I don't know about that... Also, the doubt standard still exist because we're talking about a situation where boys strip a girl in a similar fashion to this, not in a situation where they rape a girl. And this is still a legal matter, if you watch the video it involves assault.
People don't need to cite sources to make judgement calls in everyday situations. I already mentioned where I'm getting this from; intuition. Regardless of what any scientific research will say, we understand our sorroudings from how we interpret our experiences. As such, this understanding motivates a large majority of any actions we will make.
It sounds like you have a different interpretation of the events and possible consequences of what occurred. Just like me, you will have a bias that we cause you to interpret it one way or another. As it happens, people will commonly interpret the situation the way I do (the girls being more likely to be traumatized) and as a result will act from these assumptions (whether this manifests in the legal system, parents' reactions or the school's response). Just like the example I made about terrorists, where they are assumed to be more dangerous and are therefore treated differently in a specific situation. The main point is that this action is not motivated for a bias towards favouring girls, but simply an interpretation of events. I'm sure there will be other sitiuations where people react more harshly because it was a girl who did it rather than a boy - all depends on the context.
You will only call it "assault" if you make it a legal matter. As such, it is a couple of kids toppling over another kid and holding him down.
As to timidness and openness existing on both sides - of course, I cannot disagree with such statement. However, it is more likely that this event would discourage a girl due to the dynamics of the current gender roles. Guys will typically run head-on into a wall (metaphorically speaking) again and again without being discourage, as they will focus on different aspects of the situation. A girl might be more likely to consider the prospects of making friends with the opposite gender, while guys will accept more superficial relations in the name of exploration. Such an event can be part of an "exploration" whereas it will likely serve to convince you that making friendships will be hard (even if this is just a generalized assumption).
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On June 06 2011 06:36 Asjo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2011 06:24 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On June 06 2011 06:06 Asjo wrote:
I see this as a harsh prank by the girls, not a legal matter. Also, I think we have to consider that maybe the kid secretly liked this. The video aside, it's mostly playing around involving close physical contact with girls ...
The reason that people would react differently if it was a bunch of boys would only be due to rationalizations in regards to the sexual aspect of it. People interpret behaviour, consider what it might lead to, and act preventatively. Perhaps this might sometimes lead to an overreaction, but that doesn't mean that you should also overreact to a single instance of bullying by girls in the name of equality. As it is, it was a bunch of young kids acting immaturely and getting physical about it. Obviously, the school/parents will react to avoid things escalating, but as such there is nothing outrageous about the interaction.
I don't know if the comments in this thread about child porn are serious. However, just because someone underage is filmed nude, does not in any way make it child porn. Nudity is the most natural thing in the world. Child porn is about exploitation of children and the often sexualized depiction of such. I dont think youve ever undressed or have been undressed unwillingly in front of relative strangers have you? Try putting yourself in the shoes of the boy, 3 years younger and alone, in public, getting undressed while being kept down by the girls. Sure is quite a lot of humiliation in that. Something similar happened to me once, just that the people doing it were 3 boys from my class and they undressed me for practically everyone in my class to see. Believe me there is nothing to secretly enjoy about this at that age. Later on in your life when you might or might not develop kinks and fetishes is another thing, but dont tell me an 11 year old might be into humiliation, even if it involved being in close contact with some girls. I beg to differ about your last point. You can develop certain ways of relating to girls in terms physical contact, conversation, etc. At this age your hormones might be kicking in, and you're desperate to somehow get in touch with the girls. So, based on whatever experience you have, you assume a behaviour that allows you to do so. This might mean willingly engaging is humiliating situations of some kind and repeating this due to past "success". For all we know, the boy might have somehow tries to encourage the reaction of the girls, even if not this specific act. We don't know. But I certainly wouldn't count out the fact that the boy might have enjoyed it. The other you example you give is more clear cut. At this age, boys start getting more insecure about group dynamics and will battle for dominance. Your lack of power in relation to the boys that you compete with being so clearly displayed will certainly mark you. Mind you, it likely won't have any long-term effects, but you certainly won't like it. Even more so, the situation being designed to humiliate you (carried out for the audience), not just and act of fun/soperiority/venting, enhances this effect. Add to that the fact that most of us get humiliated terribly during our younger years, often against our will. More often than not, it does not weaken us. We learn from it and grow. It's an integral part of interaction at this stage, and if we never get to be foolish kids and act out all our ugly feelings and go through all the motions, there is little chance of use growing up as wise and well-balanced adults. This doesn't mean that kids should behave and treat each other well, but often this comes as part of a process. There will be bullying, people will act to stop the bullying, and hopefully everyone will learn from it.
First of all let's say he did enjoy it..why was he screaming and bawling his eyes out?,if I am correct in believing that being publicly humiliated to some people is enjoyable...they wouldn't be screaming or protesting against it would they? Call me crazy, but when people do stuff that they enjoy (Even S&M activities) they don't react in the same way that kid did...do they? NO! Good, now we're learning! Also the whole "Close physical contact with girls" thing, at the onset of puberty (can start in either sex between ages of 10-13, potentially earlier, potentially later). You begin to develop an interest in girls...that is not to say you want to see them NAKED OR that you want THEM TO SEE YOU NAKED, you merely begin to get interested at them. You're not by any means "Desperate" to get into contact with girls, in my experience most guys are scared to hell to even TALK to a girl at around that age BECAUSE of their new found interest in them.
It's not like puberty hits and boys are just like "Wow...I never thought about this before but...girls..are awesome, I wanna hang out with them...and ...i get this weird feeling whenever I'm near them..i wonder if they touch me?....". I really am astonished at how you, and people like you can think this way..it's Mind boggling, absolutely Mind Boggling. as for it not being child porn, Clearly you do not know what child porn is, they do not have to be sexually explicit and child nudity IS considered Child Porn. Maybe at ages 1-4 i can see it not being child porn, cause it's just a baby...but even then there are some Sick Fucks out there. I'm honestly hoping you're just trolling, because this is a pretty fucked up way to look at this....saying that kid, who was clearly NOT enjoying being publicly humiliated and assaulted, could've liked it is just...Wow
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she did the right thing to not press charges, stupid and wrong as this was they are 13 and should not be sent to juvenile hall or something like that just for this prank. Hopefully she has good parents and they will punish the girls for this, but pressing charges would not have been the right thing to do.
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EPT
