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No time to watch tonight... just gonna open the stream and leave it on 
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On November 15 2011 12:41 youngminii wrote:
In a nutshell:
IPL (Alex) are fucking awesome, they didn't need to but they did and they're not receiving enough credit for this. Alex is the antigus.
A bunch of starcrafters have no hearts, it's one thing to just not pay/support Amanda in a time of need but to openly criticise her and dismiss the plea for help is just outright cruel. Fuck you guys, fuck you all to hell.
The most legit 'charity' cause for starcraft so far, we'll see how it goes.
Money makes people greedy. Never trust anyone with money. Especially tens of thousands of dollars. Without solid legal conditions set in place to protect you. There are cunts in the world, even in the starcraft community.
This is the absolute most non legit charity drive. Expecting customers to pay the debts of a business, and a seemingly reckless one is ridiculous.
Remember it's Amanda's travel agency that's liable, not her.
Would you mind donating to a charity for McDonald's because one of their suppliers can't pay? No, didn't think so.
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The jtv donating their side of the ad revenue is pretty awesome. Kudos.
On November 15 2011 12:50 TheLight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:41 youngminii wrote:
In a nutshell:
IPL (Alex) are fucking awesome, they didn't need to but they did and they're not receiving enough credit for this. Alex is the antigus.
A bunch of starcrafters have no hearts, it's one thing to just not pay/support Amanda in a time of need but to openly criticise her and dismiss the plea for help is just outright cruel. Fuck you guys, fuck you all to hell.
The most legit 'charity' cause for starcraft so far, we'll see how it goes.
Money makes people greedy. Never trust anyone with money. Especially tens of thousands of dollars. Without solid legal conditions set in place to protect you. There are cunts in the world, even in the starcraft community. This is the absolute most non legit charity drive. Expecting customers to pay the debts of a business, and a seemingly reckless one is ridiculous. Remember it's Amanda's travel agency that's liable, not her. Would you mind donating to a charity for McDonald's because one of their suppliers can't pay? No, didn't think so.
Yeah okay, compare starcraft grass roots to maccas. Good job.
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On November 15 2011 07:45 iky43210 wrote:
who is Amanda, and why did she sign the bills instead of gus?
Amanda is a sick child in Africa who needs money for medication... o wait, no, she's a publicity stunt for IPL.
Support != bailout
User was warned for this post
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On November 15 2011 12:47 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:44 Helix wrote:On November 15 2011 12:41 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 15 2011 12:33 Oktyabr wrote:On November 15 2011 12:30 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 15 2011 12:14 hXc Chris wrote:
If I had a dollar for every time someone failed or lost out on trying to "support the esport community" id have more than enough money to get Amanda a get out of jail free card.
Unfortunately I dont have that kind of money and i'm pretty much sick of all this panhandling nonsense that goes on around the SC2 scene.
"I quit my job in the emergency room to support esports and esports fired me" someone hire me!
"I'm a progamer that made bank in the GSL but I need the community to support me to MLG" uh...what?
"I signed for 23k worth of debt for some guy and now I might go to jail or lose my business" no thanks
I'll leave the stream on but thats it. Charitycraft is getting really old.
Community bailout is getting old. I agree this. Granted IPL had no way of anticipating this shit was going to happen, it is ultimately their responsibility and those involved to resolve these problem. They are definitely risks involved in planning an event such as this and they made some mistakes/errors in judgement which is reasonable. But there need to be a backup plan, you can't just bailout on the community every time shit doesn't happen the way they were supposed to. Also I am curious. If IPL and PPSL are profiting from this (even if their revenues are already scaled back by this fiasco), wouldn't it make more sense to pay out of their own pockets and settle for a smaller paycheck instead of dumping this on the community? Of course I'm assuming IPL/PPSL didn't LOSE money from organizing this event. That being said I'll leave the stream on for tonight. It isn't *ultimately their responsibility*. They just owe $7K and that wouldn't cover the rest of Amanda's incurred debt. ultimately their responsibility and those involved to resolve these problem don't take my words out of context. the point is not whether who owes who money. IPL and PPSL collaborated to create an event that went bad and they're asking the community to help cover for their mistakes. Now the question is, did IGN/PPSL make some poor decisions and errors in judgement that could've otherwise avoided all of this? If so, they should be responsible for this. But the truth is no one knows exactly what the fuck happened which causes people to ask questions because IPL has been very transparent with things before. This person sums it up pretty well I can't believe IGN is actually soliciting donations without providing a detailed explanation of what the fuck exactly happened here.
What was the legal nature of IGN's partnership with Gus? How much money was transacted and between whom? Why did IGN allow Gus so much autonomy in organizing and budgeting an event this big? Who exactly is Amanda, where is she based, and why is she liable for the travel charges? Don't travel agents have some kind of standard legal mechanism in place to protect themselves if their client fails to pay?
Without further information, I can only conclude that Amanda was extremely reckless in her dealings with Gus. You cannot assume massive amounts of debt on behalf of someone else unless there's a contract or you've at least carefully vetted them.
If IGN doesn't want Amanda to go to jail, they should pay her bills themselves. It's fucking disingenuous for them to guilt the community like this to make up for their own negligence. Do you like, read? Or follow this scene at all? There have been LOADS of explanations. tl:dr since apparently some people don't pay any attention: PPSL sucked because IGN had very little control Gus stole a bunch of money and disappeared The money is under Amanda's name, and without it she could be sued or arrested. People are helping out of the goodness of their hearts. I read but do you? those aren't explanations. they're statements of what happened. Maybe you can help address these questions since you seem so knowledgeable about the whole ordeal. Show nested quote +
What was the legal nature of IGN's partnership with Gus? How much money was transacted and between whom? Why did IGN allow Gus so much autonomy in organizing and budgeting an event this big? Who exactly is Amanda, where is she based, and why is she liable for the travel charges? Don't travel agents have some kind of standard legal mechanism in place to protect themselves if their client fails to pay?
The answer to these questions are in various other threads. IGN only sponsored the event, they have no legal obligation to anything else. They are doing this to help, period.
This is the absolute most non legit charity drive. Expecting customers to pay the debts of a business, and a seemingly reckless one is ridiculous.
Remember it's Amanda's travel agency that's liable, not her.
Would you mind donating to a charity for McDonald's because one of their suppliers can't pay? No, didn't think so.
This is a travel agency in a foreign country, Amanda herself is up for being arrested in this scenario.
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PPSL was already a planned event, IGN just decided that it would be easier just to piggyback off of the event for their IPL 4 Qualifiers in the region.
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To the community
Thanks you so much in supporting the cause. i dont think my post can encompass how grateul i am. IGN has informed me that theres enough to cover the cost of flying in everyone to Manila.
To the knights who donated, watched, spread the word
Thank again (ill never forget what the community has done. )
Oh yes with much love and gratitude
-amanda
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On November 15 2011 12:47 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:46 bibbaly wrote:
Has there been any word at least on IGN's stance on taking legal action? they said no.
So stupid if that is true. Lets set the standard in ESPORTS by trusting anyone and never pursuing legal matters against scammers and con-men!
Ridiculous.
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IGN, I'm continually impressed with everything that you do as a whole, and how you have shown how you operate with great integrity. I'll be tuning in, thank you so much!
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On November 15 2011 12:47 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:44 Helix wrote:On November 15 2011 12:41 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 15 2011 12:33 Oktyabr wrote:On November 15 2011 12:30 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 15 2011 12:14 hXc Chris wrote:
If I had a dollar for every time someone failed or lost out on trying to "support the esport community" id have more than enough money to get Amanda a get out of jail free card.
Unfortunately I dont have that kind of money and i'm pretty much sick of all this panhandling nonsense that goes on around the SC2 scene.
"I quit my job in the emergency room to support esports and esports fired me" someone hire me!
"I'm a progamer that made bank in the GSL but I need the community to support me to MLG" uh...what?
"I signed for 23k worth of debt for some guy and now I might go to jail or lose my business" no thanks
I'll leave the stream on but thats it. Charitycraft is getting really old.
Community bailout is getting old. I agree this. Granted IPL had no way of anticipating this shit was going to happen, it is ultimately their responsibility and those involved to resolve these problem. They are definitely risks involved in planning an event such as this and they made some mistakes/errors in judgement which is reasonable. But there need to be a backup plan, you can't just bailout on the community every time shit doesn't happen the way they were supposed to. Also I am curious. If IPL and PPSL are profiting from this (even if their revenues are already scaled back by this fiasco), wouldn't it make more sense to pay out of their own pockets and settle for a smaller paycheck instead of dumping this on the community? Of course I'm assuming IPL/PPSL didn't LOSE money from organizing this event. That being said I'll leave the stream on for tonight. It isn't *ultimately their responsibility*. They just owe $7K and that wouldn't cover the rest of Amanda's incurred debt. ultimately their responsibility and those involved to resolve these problem don't take my words out of context. the point is not whether who owes who money. IPL and PPSL collaborated to create an event that went bad and they're asking the community to help cover for their mistakes. Now the question is, did IGN/PPSL make some poor decisions and errors in judgement that could've otherwise avoided all of this? If so, they should be responsible for this. But the truth is no one knows exactly what the fuck happened which causes people to ask questions because IPL has been very transparent with things before. This person sums it up pretty well I can't believe IGN is actually soliciting donations without providing a detailed explanation of what the fuck exactly happened here.
What was the legal nature of IGN's partnership with Gus? How much money was transacted and between whom? Why did IGN allow Gus so much autonomy in organizing and budgeting an event this big? Who exactly is Amanda, where is she based, and why is she liable for the travel charges? Don't travel agents have some kind of standard legal mechanism in place to protect themselves if their client fails to pay?
Without further information, I can only conclude that Amanda was extremely reckless in her dealings with Gus. You cannot assume massive amounts of debt on behalf of someone else unless there's a contract or you've at least carefully vetted them.
If IGN doesn't want Amanda to go to jail, they should pay her bills themselves. It's fucking disingenuous for them to guilt the community like this to make up for their own negligence. Do you like, read? Or follow this scene at all? There have been LOADS of explanations. tl:dr since apparently some people don't pay any attention: PPSL sucked because IGN had very little control Gus stole a bunch of money and disappeared The money is under Amanda's name, and without it she could be sued or arrested. People are helping out of the goodness of their hearts. I read but do you? those aren't explanations. they're statements of what happened. Maybe you can help address these questions since you seem so knowledgeable about the whole ordeal. Show nested quote +
What was the legal nature of IGN's partnership with Gus? How much money was transacted and between whom? Why did IGN allow Gus so much autonomy in organizing and budgeting an event this big? Who exactly is Amanda, where is she based, and why is she liable for the travel charges? Don't travel agents have some kind of standard legal mechanism in place to protect themselves if their client fails to pay?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284234
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283544
They've stated what the nature of the partnership and how they were involved in the whole thing. They have already stated what they did and what they saw. What do you expect, Gus to show up and provide his side of the story?
Don't believe them? Fine, get out of the thread and stop asking questions that I think has already been answered. You're just like the person who no matter what demands for a person to show his birth certificate.
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On November 15 2011 12:52 amanduh wrote:To the community Thanks you so much in supporting the cause. i dont think my post can encompass how grateul i am. IGN has informed me that theres enough to cover the cost of flying in everyone to Manila. To the knights who donated, watched, spread the word Thank again (ill never forget what the community has done. ) Oh yes with much love and gratitude -amanda
Hopefully you learned a very expensive lesson from all this!
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On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves, then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you.
1. IGN is not required to do anything. It fulfilled its obligation of paying its $14,000.
2. IGN uses its own resources (stream and casters) to create a charity event for amanda. no requirement they do so.
Yep, sounds like greedy capitalism to me. Stop making demands on companies that you have no right asking for.
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United States7483 Posts
On November 15 2011 12:38 moge wrote:Hey folks, I am the Product Manager for iHearteSports.com. We will be donating 200% of all sales for the next 24 hours to support Amanda. Check out the blog post here
Did this post get missed in all the arguing?
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On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you.
They are. Theyre donating $7000 to her cause.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Dear Everyone Talking About "too much charity in my sc2" and "what is the nature of this esports emergency",
This thread is about the STREAM, not the events that transpired that caused this. This thread is also not about the nature of charity, the legitimacy of charity, IGN's niceness, IGN's contract with Amanda or Gus, Gus' actions, nor askdjf;sdkjf;sdjf
If you want to talk about things not related to the STREAM, please make your own thread so that you can discuss those topics without distraction. And also for clarity because it is confusing having to read all of these tangential conversations not related to MKP vs Whale.
tyvm
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United States7483 Posts
On November 15 2011 12:53 FeartheAsian117 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. They are. Theyre donating $7000 to her cause.
Not to mention that the IPL (E-Sports portion of IGN) actually is quite small and doesn't have the budget.
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On November 15 2011 12:54 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:53 FeartheAsian117 wrote:On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. They are. Theyre donating $7000 to her cause. Not to mention that the IPL (E-Sports portion of IGN) actually is quite small and doesn't have the budget.
Not to mention that all of the revenue from tonights stream couldve just been straight profit for themselves instead of for amanda...
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On November 15 2011 12:52 bibbaly wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 15 2011 12:46 bibbaly wrote:
Has there been any word at least on IGN's stance on taking legal action? they said no. So stupid if that is true. Lets set the standard in ESPORTS by trusting anyone and never pursuing legal matters against scammers and con-men! Ridiculous.
maybe you should read the thread and why they arent doing it before forming baseless opinions.
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On November 15 2011 12:47 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 12:44 Helix wrote:On November 15 2011 12:41 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 15 2011 12:33 Oktyabr wrote:On November 15 2011 12:30 JoeSchmoe wrote:On November 15 2011 12:14 hXc Chris wrote:
If I had a dollar for every time someone failed or lost out on trying to "support the esport community" id have more than enough money to get Amanda a get out of jail free card.
Unfortunately I dont have that kind of money and i'm pretty much sick of all this panhandling nonsense that goes on around the SC2 scene.
"I quit my job in the emergency room to support esports and esports fired me" someone hire me!
"I'm a progamer that made bank in the GSL but I need the community to support me to MLG" uh...what?
"I signed for 23k worth of debt for some guy and now I might go to jail or lose my business" no thanks
I'll leave the stream on but thats it. Charitycraft is getting really old.
Community bailout is getting old. I agree this. Granted IPL had no way of anticipating this shit was going to happen, it is ultimately their responsibility and those involved to resolve these problem. They are definitely risks involved in planning an event such as this and they made some mistakes/errors in judgement which is reasonable. But there need to be a backup plan, you can't just bailout on the community every time shit doesn't happen the way they were supposed to. Also I am curious. If IPL and PPSL are profiting from this (even if their revenues are already scaled back by this fiasco), wouldn't it make more sense to pay out of their own pockets and settle for a smaller paycheck instead of dumping this on the community? Of course I'm assuming IPL/PPSL didn't LOSE money from organizing this event. That being said I'll leave the stream on for tonight. It isn't *ultimately their responsibility*. They just owe $7K and that wouldn't cover the rest of Amanda's incurred debt. ultimately their responsibility and those involved to resolve these problem don't take my words out of context. the point is not whether who owes who money. IPL and PPSL collaborated to create an event that went bad and they're asking the community to help cover for their mistakes. Now the question is, did IGN/PPSL make some poor decisions and errors in judgement that could've otherwise avoided all of this? If so, they should be responsible for this. But the truth is no one knows exactly what the fuck happened which causes people to ask questions because IPL has been very transparent with things before. This person sums it up pretty well I can't believe IGN is actually soliciting donations without providing a detailed explanation of what the fuck exactly happened here.
What was the legal nature of IGN's partnership with Gus? How much money was transacted and between whom? Why did IGN allow Gus so much autonomy in organizing and budgeting an event this big? Who exactly is Amanda, where is she based, and why is she liable for the travel charges? Don't travel agents have some kind of standard legal mechanism in place to protect themselves if their client fails to pay?
Without further information, I can only conclude that Amanda was extremely reckless in her dealings with Gus. You cannot assume massive amounts of debt on behalf of someone else unless there's a contract or you've at least carefully vetted them.
If IGN doesn't want Amanda to go to jail, they should pay her bills themselves. It's fucking disingenuous for them to guilt the community like this to make up for their own negligence. Do you like, read? Or follow this scene at all? There have been LOADS of explanations. tl:dr since apparently some people don't pay any attention: PPSL sucked because IGN had very little control Gus stole a bunch of money and disappeared The money is under Amanda's name, and without it she could be sued or arrested. People are helping out of the goodness of their hearts. I read but do you? those aren't explanations. they're statements of what happened. Maybe you can help address these questions since you seem so knowledgeable about the whole ordeal. Show nested quote +
What was the legal nature of IGN's partnership with Gus? How much money was transacted and between whom? Why did IGN allow Gus so much autonomy in organizing and budgeting an event this big? Who exactly is Amanda, where is she based, and why is she liable for the travel charges? Don't travel agents have some kind of standard legal mechanism in place to protect themselves if their client fails to pay?
Allow me to try my best at this:
IGN had no prior partnership with Gus, as far as I am aware. They simply offered to sponsor his tournament and use it as a 'qualifier' for IPL. (1)
IPL payed 7k upfront, with 7k coming at a later stage. This second round of 7k has been withheld in the post-event drama, and is being used to pay off the unpaid staff/expenses.
Back to (1), since IGN was effectively a sponsor for this event they had very little to no say in how the event was run. They trusted Gus (incorrectly, as they have stated), with the responsibility of it all since he seemed to be organising this big event before IGN got behind it. They just wanted to help out a tournament on the other side of the world, that otherwise would get much less exposure.
Amanda (not sure where she is based) runs a travel agency (from my gathering). Either way she put up the 12k for the travel expenses. The issue with trying to chase the 'clients', is that the clients would have been the players flown over. And if she tried to push legal claims all the players could, legally, claim there was no contract signed, or agreement for payment. Which is totally correct. The 'contract' was with Gus, however, from what has been said this was a verbal contract. Not only would this be expensive to try and pursue, but there is a good chance she wouldn't be able to pursue it. Effectively the tickets were given in advance, ie before she recieved payment - another misjudgement of Gus' character.
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EPT
