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How exactly would they patch it, though? If they remove the ability to set that command, that would remove the ability to switch left and right click for lefties.
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That's not necessary. the left and right click have nothing to do with lefty players. Been playing lefty for months before that patch.
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I didn't realize that option came in a patch. They still must have known that it would be exploitable, though, because otherwise they wouldn't have added it.
Or it's for that guy who uses a game controller in Masters, lol.
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On May 01 2013 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
It wouldn't conflict with anything. Why would you be holding Ctrl+Shift for an ability in any other circumstance?
I'm pretty sure it would conflict with shift-queuing. You would want to be able to both drop ITs super quick in battle (no shift), and be able to super quickly queue up a stealth IT bomb at someone's expansion.
On May 01 2013 06:24 JaKaTaK wrote:This is kind of blowing my mind right now. Kind of afraid to try it  I feel like as soon as blizzard realizes what they've done they'll patch it.
I'm pretty sure your APM spikes SUPER high when you use it, just like with the scroll-wheel trick. It would absolutely look like cheating on any replay.
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Oh, and as for an accessible key with no conflicts: N
I think this works for both Terran and Zerg layouts. You would move hold-fire for ghosts to some other key, and you would have N as alt-binds for snipe and Infested Terran so that you could still use / or I if you wanted.
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On May 01 2013 06:29 Borskey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:24 JaKaTaK wrote:This is kind of blowing my mind right now. Kind of afraid to try it I feel like as soon as blizzard realizes what they've done they'll patch it. I'm pretty sure your APM spikes SUPER high when you use it, just like with the scroll-wheel trick. It would absolutely look like cheating on any replay.
That single-handedly proves this trick is not worth it. :/
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On May 01 2013 06:37 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 06:29 Borskey wrote:On May 01 2013 06:24 JaKaTaK wrote:This is kind of blowing my mind right now. Kind of afraid to try it I feel like as soon as blizzard realizes what they've done they'll patch it. I'm pretty sure your APM spikes SUPER high when you use it, just like with the scroll-wheel trick. It would absolutely look like cheating on any replay. That single-handedly proves this trick is not worth it. :/
I agree
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Well, it does not prove anything, but it is strong evidence for an eventual tournament or blizzard ban.
I also agree that we should not put it in.
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Put it in you fuckers 
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^
he makes a strong argument. I am reconsidering my position
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Wow... I didn't look at it like that.
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I approached Ninjury with the idea a while ago, but it was only an idea then. At that point I didn't find a way to implement it comfortably and safely. Borskey was spot on when he explained the binding method. I bound "Choose ability or A.I Target"'s alternate binding to S, as it's central so my layout and doesn't cause any trouble. So I can issue commands with S instead of Left Click if I choose to, only holding it will repeat the action.
This is what I settled on, and it feels good. I think TheCore could add this in somewhere in a similar fashion. I know most of the regulars here are aware of Fleet Keys, so JaK, if this isn't ok, I'll just edit this part out. I want to show you guys how this can work in a layout.
+ Show Spoiler +
As for tournaments/bannings, it's not illegal until they make it so. If you were in fact the first person to upset a tournament with it, then that's on Blizzard and it's up to them to disable it. It would be easy for them to deploy a fix for it, in the same way they don't allow Unit Commands to be alternatively bound to mouse clicks (left and right). They'd simply lock the "Choose Ability or AI Target" to Left and Right click only, and probably mouse buttons.
I don't see this as being any more abusive than animation exploits such as drop micro and stutter-stepping, or even holding down a key to queue units and reaping the benefits of your keyboards repeat rate---you can even crank up the repeat rate in Windows and also reduce the delay but that's totally ok? Blizzard can't keep you from setting a timer to go off every 40 seconds to remind you of Injects while you play online qualifiers and knock out players not using one, so why would a completely legal and deliberate key binding cause a banning, especially before it's even "fixed"? There are only a few key instances where I'd use the feature anyhow, and they are instances where I'm removing tedious, repetitive actions to save some time, much like every other optimization players have taking continued advantage of. It even has a slight delay based on the same repeat rate delay that players already accept, practice, and is seen as ok.
Edit: I's also like to add another thing regarding APM.
When a player holds down a key for production, this actually causes huge spikes in APM as well, samiliar to the way this new feature does. It varies greatly based on what action you're doing, but still, you get spikes when using your keyboard's repeat rate regardless. Any Zerg who is powering Drones this way will see this.
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On May 01 2013 03:37 Ninjury_J wrote:
Why don't you like it?
@Jak,
I wonder if it makes to consider adding one more macro cg in... split warpgate and robo/stargate, split barracks and factory/starport, and add one cg for upgrades/nydus for z...
yeah
i can burrow very fast with H but have problems hitting the unburrow key fast enough
especially burrow unburrow combinations
having it on a better key would make burrow micro a lot easier
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Hey I have a problem
I use Colemak
Is there any way to get the in-game command card to display the colemak version of hotkeys? For some reason, it will show the colemak counterpart for any of the QWERTY punctuation keys (the ; will show as an o) but the QWERTY letters will not change. I want them all to change 
the ; correctly shows as o
lower-case L, which is where the QWERTY u is, shows as a u
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I have been using the 0.6.3 RRS setup for a bit over a month now, and let me just say: you guys have done an amazing job; I love the setup! Thanks for your hard work in making it happen!
I do have a question though. Now that .7 is ready and have a bit of relearning to do, I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to what the trade-offs of using a Random layout vs a Zerg one are. I ladder as Zerg a few nights a week, but also often play Random with some buddies of mine and am torn on which to use.
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On May 01 2013 12:44 Shadow24k wrote:
I have been using the 0.6.3 RRS setup for a bit over a month now, and let me just say: you guys have done an amazing job; I love the setup! Thanks for your hard work in making it happen!
I do have a question though. Now that .7 is ready and have a bit of relearning to do, I was hoping someone could enlighten me as to what the trade-offs of using a Random layout vs a Zerg one are. I ladder as Zerg a few nights a week, but also often play Random with some buddies of mine and am torn on which to use.
Shadow, I play terran but from what I can tell reading this thread the difference is the zerg layout has been set up specifically to be very efficient with some common zerg actions like larva injects and creep spread, whereas the random layout is more similar between all the races to make transitioning between them easier. (Please correct me if I'm wrong zerg players
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Nope, that's right. You can easily play zerg with the PTR layouts, (they are the same) but playing p or t with the zerg one can be annoying, unless you make some small rebinds.
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Here guys, if anyone is still wondering about the rapid fire feature, I put together a little something for quick reference, detailing how it affects nearly everything (cross-posted from my thread).
Rapidfire Feature
I did extensive testing last night with this feature and here's what I've determined, summed up by race, in a unit-by-unit list:
PROTOSS
+ Show Spoiler +- Warpgates. When used with the rapidfire feature, they adhere to the same limitations that other races experience when using a keyboard's repeat rate for queuing/morphing. Warping in units in the mid and late game can be done very quickly depending on the amount of Warpgates you own. The big limitation is that if you plan on warping in different types of units using the rapidfire feature, there will be a short delay between queuing different units, so it's not not usable in every Warp-in situation and is hard to actually abuse in any meaningful way. Warping in one unit off of many gates is sped up dramatically though, so that's pretty cool!
I feel that this is actually fair. This levels the playing field for late game Protoss players who chose gateway-heavy compositions, and reduces needless repetition tied to a mechanic that is supposed to facilitate the concept of "instant reinforcement". It allows you to operate in some ways similar to that of Zerg production because of the benefits of repeat rate and repeat delays, but again, is limited to different producing multiple unit types because of repeat delay.
- Nexus. Chronoboosting a lot of things at once becomes much quicker, but if you're keeping up with your macro, there's no immediate benefit gained from the rapidfire feature. A great way to dump Chrono energy. Watch out for Chornoboosting the same structure though, as you'll just waste energy that way.
- High Templar. Feedback. This spell really shines with the rapidfire feature. You can cast it quick, but relatively uncontrollably (much like ITs). Follows the same rules as Snipe though, in that you need a lot of HT's to make super-effective use of the rapidfire feature. Psi Storm remains a surgical spell in that you can't afford to waste them, so it remains mostly unaffected by the rapidfire feature. Morphing Archons remains the same, as its an ability that already reaps the benefits of your keyboard's repeat rate.
- Phoenix. Graviton Lift. You can have some fun with this without breaking anything in the game. You can spam the spell, and lift up many things. Watch out with this, as you won't be able to shoot anything if all of your Phoenixes are busy lifting unless you've got some other air-attacking support handy.
- Oracle. Doesn't benefit from the rapidfire feature much or at all. Nothing to really note here.
- Sentry. This unit doesn't really benefit too much from the rapidfire feature. Forcefields. You want to be surgical with them and spamming the spell is a good way to waste energy and lose the game. Hallucination. This is about the only good application of rapid fire for this unit, so that's good, as Sentries are already extremely powerful. Guardian Shield isn't relevant at all in this case.
TERRAN
+ Show Spoiler +- Orbital Commands. MULES can be rapidly called down, but you need a lot of energy and orbitals to really make great use of this. Still, it's cute if you want to dump energy when falling behind on macro, but won't affect a player who has solid macro mechanics. Calling down depots won't benefit much from the rapidfire feature. Scans can be spammed, but there's no reason to ever spam Scans due to wasteful casting past the first Scan, so that remains the same.
- Ghosts. When they are in excess numbers (at least 15-20, with near-full energy), the infamous Snipe exploit claws its way out of nerfing hell a bit. An unlikely situation, but still, a small possibility that isn't exactly realistic within the realm of standard play. EMP doesn't really benefit much from this (although the option is there to spam it), nor does Nuke.
- Raven. Seeker Missile. In large numbers, can benefit greatly from the rapidfire feature, provided that you actually need to send mass amounts of Seeker Missiles at the enemy. The potential to waste energy is still very much present, and aiming is tough, so that's fair. Autoturrets can be deployed faster, but they behave like structures, so you must be careful in your casting or you'll hit a lot of placement conflicts and only some will actually deploy. There's some skill involved there, with potential gain, so I like that. PDD's can be deployed faster, but treat them like Forcefields in that you don't want to spam them too much or at all.
- Battlecruisers. Yamato Cannon can be spammed to pretty good effect, so it's applicable and useful in a situation where you're looking to dump a ton of Yamato rounds into an opponent's army. Not a highly likely situation to be in, and only really appears when the game has gone on for far too long anyway. There's a lot of potential for overkill when using Yamato Cannon with the rapidfire feature.
ZERG
+ Show Spoiler +- Queens. Transfuse. You can rapidly cast this spell, but not too much faster than a competent human could because it has a significant amount of delay. There is also a tendency to over-Transfuse on units that aren't at risk of dying (but are still slightly damaged), so it's more of a judgement call that can go good, or can go pretty bad due to wasted energy. Spawn Larva works with this, but the uses aren't very applicable unless you did what I did and bound the rapidfire key to Spawn Larva's key (the S key in Fleet Keys Alloy, which is central to the layout). It lets me cut out the mouse clicks while performing the Backspace Inject method, which is a pretty big deal depending on who you ask. A neat little improvement, but extreeemely specific both in terms of implementation and usage. Creep tumors. Now this is where the rapidfire feature shines with Zerg. If you ever get to the point where you are spreading Creep with multiple tumors (5 or more I'd say), or need to dump a Queen's energy quickly by placing Creep Tumors, then you're in luck, because you can eliminate the need to click to propagate the Creep Tumors, and the process is sped up by a considerable amount. Not a broken feature, but potentially very beneficial. Just watch where you aim your cursor as you cast, because you can cast close to your tumors and that should make you feel sad.
- Infestor. Infested Terrans can be spawned at rapid speeds. It's more of a double-edged sword when used with the rapidfire key rather than an exploit. You can spend your energy quick, but the expenditure is extremely hard to regulate when using them in conjunction with Fungal Growth. So you can waste your energy very quickly, but somewhat...uncontrollably. Works really well when using Infested Terrans as a harass method, as you dump the energy quick. Fungal Growth interacts poorly with rapidire, as energy is precious, and you don't want to waste your Fungals. Neural Parasite isn't really viable in most situations where you'd want to make Infestors, and wouldn't benefit the use of rapidfire much or at all. Only good use may be vs mass Archons, Carriers, Battlecruisers, Thors and other massed Infestors I suppose?
- Viper. Abduct. You can cast it quickly, but you have much less control over what you Abduct, and Abduct has a high energy cost anyway so it's not really game-breaking and can end bad for the Zerg spamming it. Blinding Cloud doesn't benefit from rapidfire, much like how spammed Forcefields don't. Consume benefits greatly from the rapidfire feature if you have large amount of Vipers. It makes queuing the ability up much quicker when you have about 6 to 8 or more Vipers (the most you probably would want in a normal game).
- Corruptor. These guys are able to spam Corruption to great effect, so that's pretty damn cool. You waste cooldown and not energy so there's some amount of forgiveness there, but you still have to be careful with where you're actually casting the spell, as you can cast multiple Corrupts on single targets and that's wasteful. The rapidfire feature takes some tedium out of Corrupting single targets in exchange for some chaotic rapid targeting. With careful aiming, the rapidfire feature allows a player to use this underused and often-times lackluster ability to greater effect. Overall, I really like it. It does the unit some justice and promotes the use of its ability.
Overall- Snipe can be used in a similar but much more limited way as pre-nerf Snipe did. The potential to spam it still exists, but... It's not similar enough to pre-nerf Snipe to create the same issues.
- The rapidfire feature can help out in certain situations where you slip on your macro with your Nexus or Orbital Commands. A great way to dump that energy.
- Enhances the speed of Creep Spreading by a considerable amount if you have 5 or more tumors on the go. Also is a great way to dump your Creep Queen's energy if she has a lot banked, as rapidly queuing Creep Tumors can be done much quicker.
- Lets you sacrifice accuracy and precision with many spells for a casting rate increase. Works like a trap in some ways, it works nicely in others. It depends on who is using the spells, and is kept mostly in check by the spell's balanced features like non-stacking and cooldown rules.
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jsut wanted to tell thanks for this layout, I really had a problem with using my pinkie for adding and creating. using thumb is much more comfortable for me. I made few changes to consolidate same abilities under "o" in medium layout I use as a zerg and I think this helped me greatly with macro and micro.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Yv1zySG.jpg)
