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On May 02 2013 00:13 Hot_Ice wrote:
hI I just wanted to drop bye and say that I tested your grouping hotkeys. For Terran.
I watched the video that explains on why you use CTRL for adding and CTRL + SHIFT for creating.
I tested this now for some days, over a week I think.
You lose heavily the ability to recreat groups.. needed for drops defense etc. shift+ctrl is so slow (..). Doubleclicking on standing units + shift is realy easy and fast on the other hand and the advantage of ctrl to create is barely there.
I understand you want shift for other things, ok. But I realy don't think that layout is optimal.
Personally I've found that I make less mistakes where I accidentally add things to wanted groups with this new system. Before shift was too easy to hit.
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On May 02 2013 00:13 Hot_Ice wrote:
hI I just wanted to drop bye and say that I tested your grouping hotkeys. For Terran.
I watched the video that explains on why you use CTRL for adding and CTRL + SHIFT for creating.
I tested this now for some days, over a week I think.
You lose heavily the ability to recreat groups.. needed for drops defense etc. shift+ctrl is so slow (..). Doubleclicking on standing units + shift is realy easy and fast on the other hand and the advantage of ctrl to create is barely there.
I understand you want shift for other things, ok. But I realy don't think that layout is optimal.
This baffles me. How is ctrl-shift slow? Its one motion with the thumb. Just like hitting either key individually.
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Been experimenting with CGs this week under TRM. I moved tlabs out to = or "." and both work out pretty well. I kind of prefer = because it's easier for me to hit that key, but I think . will work just as well. The way I see it, techlabs don't have to be accessed regularly or quickly, you just need to be able to check on them every once in a while until your major upgrades are done (i.e. you only have to research stim once and it takes really long to finish). I figured I'm still not going to use all 8 free CGs for army, so I might as well put them on a key that I rarely use.
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On May 01 2013 23:24 eneyeseekay wrote:
Rapidfire Feature
I did extensive testing last night with this feature and here's what I've determined, summed up by race, in a unit-by-unit list:
...
I've got a few comments. I'll only mention the abilities I think it wouldn't work well with. Everything I don't mention I think you covered pretty well.
Protoss- I think it might do more harm than good with Chronoboost, since you'll end up wasting chronos. (Double-chrono on a building refreshes the timer, not adding to it, right? I don't play protoss so I'm not sure).
Terran- I'd say having it on MULES isn't a great idea, unless it's an alternate-bind kind of thing, as you don't necessarily want to dump ALL your energy at once. There are situations where this can be a good idea, and situations where this can be bad.
Seeker missiles on rapid fire sounds like a very bad idea to me, you'll end up wasting missiles that way. You don't want all your missiles clumped up on the same target, and you don't want them all on the same targets right next to each other. You'd want to shoot small clusters of missiles at targets separated by a decent distance. This is definitely best done with manual clicks.
With Yamato, you'd want to keep precise track of how many times you're firing and what you're firing at. Rapid-Fire here seems like it would do more harm than good, unless the game is smart and doesn't overkill.
Zerg- Transfuse is another one of those situations where sometimes you might want rapid fire, but most times you wouldn't. If this is implemented, I think it should be done with an alternate bind or not at all.
Creep spread may be good, I'll have to test it out.
Corruptors- I think the wasted cooldowns probably don't make it worth rapid firing, though I never end up using corruption anyways.
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On May 02 2013 00:13 Hot_Ice wrote:
hI I just wanted to drop bye and say that I tested your grouping hotkeys. For Terran.
I watched the video that explains on why you use CTRL for adding and CTRL + SHIFT for creating.
I tested this now for some days, over a week I think.
You lose heavily the ability to recreat groups.. needed for drops defense etc. shift+ctrl is so slow (..). Doubleclicking on standing units + shift is realy easy and fast on the other hand and the advantage of ctrl to create is barely there.
I understand you want shift for other things, ok. But I realy don't think that layout is optimal.
double clicking units is terrible, and nearly impossible when they're moving units. Ctrl+click is much much more efficient. So you simply put your thumb down on the keyboard (ctrl+shift) then click the unit then press the key for the relevant ctrl group (to overwrite). Alternatively just using ctrl will add that unit to the controlgroup.
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@Borskey
I covered everything you said, minus the part about dumping energy into MULES. I totally agree with you that it's not a great idea at every point in the game. As for Corruption, I think any reason to use it is a good reason, it's painfully underused as-is.
Trust me when I say Creep Spreading feels very relaxed when you've got multiple tumors down. It's really, really nice! Give it a go, you'll see.
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OK so in my layout (RRM) I've put the rapid fire on enter and moved the Rotate Camera Right to \, and unbound the select army from \.
This works reasonably well, though unfortunately all the good multicast spells (snipe/infested terran) are on / which is a bit awkward as it's also actuated with your thumb (this is also bad for shift+queuing these abilities normally so I have no idea why they're there in the first place). For this reason I've rebound them to other spare keys on the finger keys.
It seems to work reasonably well. You simply click the ability you want to do then hold your thumb down on shift+enter and wave your cursor around like a magician.
Edit: When you put your thumb down you have to make sure that you actuate shift before (or at the same time as) you actuate enter. Otherwise you'll just cast the spell once then do a series of left clicks.
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Latest github version has support for the campaign Subjection.
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Started learning the core, so I wrote a simple script for myself to convert the spreadsheet into a different keyboard layout (colemak/dvorak). If it would be helpful to others I would be glad to share it.
Edit: Also, to assign a queen to the layered control group the docs for ZRM say Ctrl+I but the hotkey is mapped to Ctrl+K because of the creep cams.
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Thanks for pointing that out. Script sounds cool too. How does it work?
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hi guys. wanted to report a bug on the downloadable file ZRM Latin Layout. keeps popping up msg that there's a conflict and will keep me from performing some actions. haven't been able to figure out what's conflicting but when i do i'll get in touch.
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ok, i got it now, it's the UI EDITOR commands that are messing it up, i figured out which ones, can i PM someone with this info, since there's a CG unbound too and some stuff outta place?
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On May 02 2013 09:17 eneyeseekay wrote:
Trust me when I say Creep Spreading feels very relaxed when you've got multiple tumors down. It's really, really nice! Give it a go, you'll see.
@ JaK and Creep Spreading Team:
This makes me smile:
Try binding this "possibly abusive" key to "U" and then try our new creep spread technique. It's sick. You just do everything exactly as you do before, including holding down "U" for creep spread, but now, just wave your mouse around and don't even worry about clicking. It's exactly the same as before, but even faster since you don't have to click, don't have to change keys, don't have to hold shift, nothing!
I don't believe "U" conflicts with any other abilities or units.
I gotta say, until Blizzard patches this, I don't care. I'M USING IT. (especially because even if they patch it, my fingers won't have to learn anything new except to simply add in clicks!)
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On May 02 2013 18:41 Ninjury_J wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out. Script sounds cool too. How does it work?
It does a simple substitution on any single character cells in the spreadsheet. Very basic, but I needed my reference document in colemak and there are no alternate versions for different keyboard layouts.
Check it out below. After it loads, the script appears in a menu called Covert Keyboard Layout.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alze6OHHkEwWdGJtdmtKZHdrdE1SSnpDOGtnUTB6N3c&usp=sharing
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Wow.
This. Is. Sick. Here are complete instructions for anyone wanting to smile today:
- bind any spell-caster ability to "I" (standard xRM) and also "U" as an alternate.
- bind "Choose Ability or A.I. Target" to "Left Click" and also "U" as an alternate.
Example usage:
Infestors now have 3 methods of using infested terrans, each with their own advantage.
#1 - Manual.
- select infestor CG. Hold "I". Spam click ground wherever you want.
- advantage: IT's will immediately come out, do not have to wait for shift-queuing. This should be your standard usage.
#2 - Shift Queue spam.
- select infestor CG. Burrow. click enemy mineral line.
- hold shift. Press and hold "U"
- Wave mouse around a small area not too far from the shift-queued move command (to prevent clump-up).
- advantage: IT's will pop out in mass all at once once your IT's arrive.
- Disadvantage: IT's can clump up if you send too many and will not make room for each other and prevent more ITs from popping.
#3 - Fully Automatic Machine Gun of Death
- select infestor CG.
- Hold "U".
- Wave mouse around.
- Smile.
- Advantage: IT's immediately pop at the rate of your keyboard presses. Great for medium-large groups of infestors.
- Disadvantage: may not get exact placement, will consume your energy instantly.
Same trick can be done with any spellcaster and any ability. Works extremely well for creep as mentioned in my last post.
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yeah i gotta say i LOVE the rapid fire ability for corruption and creep spreading... it speeds up the process immensely for a lowish priority action.
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hmmmm. I do like the idea for creep spread, only because it requires not having to relearn if it gets patched or deleted...
"- bind any spell-caster ability to "I" (standard xRM) and also "U" as an alternate."
Why I?
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"I" was just an example. You'd keep whatever abilities you want on whatever default keys, just add "U" as an alternate to the one you want to spam.
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If/when Blizzard decides to patch the rapidfire keybinding, all I ask is that they consider doing something about the rigid modifier keys while they're at it.
Does anyone feel that this feature is truly broken though? I see it as a clever way to remove a lot of tedious clicking, but in the case of mass-Sniping, I can see why is *could* be an issue.
Here's the next big question: How do you guys feel it affects Warp-ins? I feel like it's a very, very big deal when you've got a lot of Warpgates down. Not broken, but the advantage is clearly present for the rapidfire user.
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On May 03 2013 05:27 eneyeseekay wrote:
If/when Blizzard decides to patch the rapidfire keybinding, all I ask is that they consider doing something about the rigid modifier keys while they're at it.
Does anyone feel that this feature is truly broken though? I see it as a clever way to remove a lot of tedious clicking, but in the case of mass-Sniping, I can see why is *could* be an issue.
Here's the next big question: How do you guys feel it affects Warp-ins? I feel like it's a very, very big deal when you've got a lot of Warpgates down. Not broken, but the advantage is clearly present for the rapidfire user.
What do you mean by rigid modifiers? Do you mean the fact that modifiers cannot be used for anything on the command card? It is really annoying, but I don't think they'll fix it at all, considering Blizz actually patched out the notepad-editing exploit which enabled that.
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EPT
