EPT[G] TheCore - Advanced Keyboard Layout - Page 209
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
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cenq
Switzerland1 Post
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Borskey
160 Posts
I also came across a strange glitch where I couldn't see some HoTs abilities (like medivac boost) in the in-game hotkey editor until I made and then left a game. I'm wondering why Hold Position and Stop are flipped between the Terran and Zerg layouts- in ZRM Hold Position is 8 and stop is K, but in TRM Hold Position is K and stop is 8. For my own sanity (I did say I'm trying to learn both layouts), I'm going to make them the same in both layouts, but I'm curious about the reasoning behind the difference so I can decide which way to use. Similarly, I'm thinking about unifying patrol- I know why patrol is different in ZRM (creep spreading), so I'm probably going to make patrol M in TRM and move decloak to U, though I might just leave it as it is. I think I can handle two different patrol keys depending on the race I'm playing, but I definitely wouldn't be able to keep the holdposition/stop difference straight in my head. I'm also thinking of changing the cameras in TRM to make them like the ZRM cams, but I'm not sure yet. It may seem strange to you guys that I would want to learn two different hotkey setups, but then I end up trying to make them more similar in these ways- but I'm still going to keep the TRM control groups and abilities the way they are, mainly so that I can have my production on P and O and tap them. I think the shift+P control group is amazing for zerg, but kind of shitty for any other race. | ||
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Borskey
160 Posts
Ignore this post. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
The reason why the CGs are ranked in order from fastest to slowest to press. When you learn them, the number will not matter, only the function will. @Borskey The Zerg layout has a layered camera on F, this is why stop is on F. No reason to shift queue that. The other main difference between the zerg layout and the others is that the zerg layout has an extra ability key, this moves all abilities one key closer than the other versions. If you are going for this particular setup that merges the two, why not keep the shiftP CG as an alternate, that way you can do both? | ||
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fengshaun
149 Posts
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AupIb4-ZC3zsdEhNRUlCQU5fWHZldGQtX1MwM2d6SXc#gid=27 @Jak: can you take a look at the "Production" Column on the terran page and see if it's "incorporate-able" back into TheCore? I moved the TechLab to / and Reactor to H (since lift is now on U), which frees up one close key for units. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AupIb4-ZC3zsdEhNRUlCQU5fWHZldGQtX1MwM2d6SXc#gid=23 edit: blue background is what is changed from ZRM beta. | ||
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cryu
37 Posts
On April 29 2013 08:28 JaKaTaK wrote: @cryu I agree that this is an issue. Do we have to go back to the old way? Or do we have specific solutions that we can locate? Maybe put the buildings on the least used CGs? One solution is changing the recommended groups to incorporate just the most basic ideas and then leave the player decide how they want to allocate the units into them. For example, ; as "a-move group/main army" and L as "spellcasters"? Or maybe . for "stationary" - less mobile or not as much moved units (e.g. swarm hosts, tanks, mines). But not more than 4-5 types of units. Rest control groups can be used for tech buildings. | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
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Fang Xianfu
United Kingdom6 Posts
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Borskey
160 Posts
On April 30 2013 01:57 JaKaTaK wrote: @Borskey The Zerg layout has a layered camera on F, this is why stop is on F. No reason to shift queue that. The other main difference between the zerg layout and the others is that the zerg layout has an extra ability key, this moves all abilities one key closer than the other versions. If you are going for this particular setup that merges the two, why not keep the shiftP CG as an alternate, that way you can do both? Ah, and you do sometimes need to shift-queue hold position, so it can't be on K and therefore must be on 8. Makes sense to me. And I'm not going for one layout that merges the two- I'm still going to be using two different layouts. I just want to make a few small changes to make them slightly more similar. The only one I definitely want to do is make the TRM stop/hold keys the same as the ZRM ones. I like O as an ability for zerg, and O as a control group for Terran. In order to have that, I need two separate layouts that I switch between whenever I switch races. I'm totally fine with using O and I for build structures on Zerg, and ' and / for build structures on Teran. In my head they are two different things. Same with using I to build SCVs in TRM and O to build drones in ZRM. Not a problem for me to keep that straight. But stop and hold position- I feel certain that if I played Zerg and got used to stopping with K, then when I go back to Terran I'd fuck up and accidentally hold position my army when I mean to stop (which could be very bad in some situations). The other key that I'm sure will one day cause me trouble is "return cargo", but that is one I can adapt myself to (though I might put TRM "build advanced" on I and return on /). The solution for me isn't to only use one single hotkey layout, but rather just make sure those particular keys are the same in both layouts. | ||
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Spaceboy
United Kingdom220 Posts
On April 30 2013 06:17 Fang Xianfu wrote: There's a typo in KeyboardLayouts.ini that's stopping the UK layouts working. "Apostrophe" is typoed "Apostrohe". Goddamnit! My bad! (I submitted the file) .. Hopefully someone awesome can fix! | ||
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S7EFEN
86 Posts
TheCore PRM beta.sc2hotkeys from https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=2390A95317ACD544&id=2390A95317ACD544!107#cid=2390A95317ACD544&id=2390A95317ACD544!1394 Yet a bunch of the hotkeys differ from what is on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdFQ4LVlIcllUUWtGUVY4cWxyLXd6QUE#gid=29 specifically I found that the "next selection" (tab on normal hotkeys) was set to back mouse button as well as a bunch of the unit hotkeys (specifically warp prism keys) were swapped. For example, the warp prism set my hotkeys on the downloaded version to "h" and "/", which of course created issues because I couldn't use the "next selection" hotkey at all. Did I download the wrong version? Or is the spreadsheet out of date? | ||
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Fiziks
United States59 Posts
I personally use the 2 CG tabbed production that's recommended for thecore and have gotten really used to it, but since I started using TheCore, I've gone back to re-read TL articles on mechanics and I've also re-watch a lot of Day[9]'s videos on mechanics and proper APM/Mouse technique. Any time Day[9] talks about the "Tap" technique he mentions tapping 4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6 and even in Daily #121 he goes on to say that you should have at least a minimum of 3 CGs for production because tabbing too much is not good mechanics. This is also the same thing that I'm repeatedly seeing in TL articles on proper mechanics. Now, I'm not suggesting that every different production facility have it's own CG, but the more I think about it, do we really need 8 CGs for army units? I know it's nice, but I can't ever see someone micro-ing a battle by using 8 CGs. I think even 6 CGs is pretty excessive. Also, is it smart to have units with dedicated CG keys? You can't really guarantee that in every game you will always make X unit. As an example, in TRM we have ghosts on L. Sure it makes sense to say that in every TvP game I will make ghosts and put them on L, but you don't always make ghosts in TvT or TvZ. So now L becomes an underutilized CG 2/3rd of the time. Also, in TRM Tanks have their own control group and so do Widow Mines and Vikings. Maybe we can start combining some of these units into CG's and just calling that recommended CG "Support Units" or "Air Units" or something. Perhaps that could free up a few CGs that can be re-purposed for macro or upgrades. I guess I'm just trying to see what other people's thoughts are on this and maybe have a lively discussion about what other smart options there are for the recommended CGs. Curious to see what other good uses we have come up with since we have all 10 CG literally right at our fingertips. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On April 30 2013 08:51 Fiziks wrote: As long as we're talking about changing the "Suggested CG's" for add-ons and upgrades, I wonder what people's thoughts are on having a 3rd or even 4th macro CG? I believe someone brought this up a few pages ago, but I guess I'm still curious what the biggest argument was for tabbed production using only 2 CGs? From what I've seen this hasn't been sufficiently answered. I personally use the 2 CG tabbed production that's recommended for thecore and have gotten really used to it, but since I started using TheCore, I've gone back to re-read TL articles on mechanics and I've also re-watch a lot of Day[9]'s videos on mechanics and proper APM/Mouse technique. Any time Day[9] talks about the "Tap" technique he mentions tapping 4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 6 and even in Daily #121 he goes on to say that you should have at least a minimum of 3 CGs for production because tabbing too much is not good mechanics. This is also the same thing that I'm repeatedly seeing in TL articles on proper mechanics. Now, I'm not suggesting that every different production facility have it's own CG, but the more I think about it, do we really need 8 CGs for army units? I know it's nice, but I can't ever see someone micro-ing a battle by using 8 CGs. I think even 6 CGs is pretty excessive. Also, is it smart to have units with dedicated CG keys? You can't really guarantee that in every game you will always make X unit. As an example, in TRM we have ghosts on L. Sure it makes sense to say that in every TvP game I will make ghosts and put them on L, but you don't always make ghosts in TvT or TvZ. So now L becomes an underutilized CG 2/3rd of the time. Also, in TRM Tanks have their own control group and so do Widow Mines and Vikings. Maybe we can start combining some of these units into CG's and just calling that recommended CG "Support Units" or "Air Units" or something. Perhaps that could free up a few CGs that can be re-purposed for macro or upgrades. I guess I'm just trying to see what other people's thoughts are on this and maybe have a lively discussion about what other smart options there are for the recommended CGs. Curious to see what other good uses we have come up with since we have all 10 CG literally right at our fingertips. Having 8 CGs for units is godly. I haven't been able to utilize it to its full extent since I'm currently going through TheStaircase, but I'll go through the main advantages I can think of atm. You probably already know them, but what the heck. 1. A full army key instead of being required to 1a2a3a. This makes a-moving and retreating 3 times faster on its own. 2. The obvious ones; spellcasters on a different key, vikings/colossi/tanks/whatever on another one, etc. 3. Two or three harass groups. Odds are, if you aren't MKP, you can't effectively micro a multi-pronged harass, unless you have this. 4. You can use spare CGs for whatever you want. The workers in your main if your opponent is dropping you a lot, baneling mines... it's just nice to have some wiggle room on your CGs in general. You can also use them for macro if you want to, like with TLabs, Cybers, and every Zerg building but Hatches and crawlers. Then there's tab macro. The main reason tab macro isn't usually considered effective is because people are usually hitting tab from ASDF to use it. In TheCore, of course, it's the side mouse buttons, which eliminates a lot of the downsides. Getting used to using tab is a plus as well, although arguably it is most useful for Terran (reactors and tech labs), so I'm a bit biased. Well that's my explanation. I'm sure Jak can go a lot more in depth than I can, though. @Jak Speaking of you, have you seen this yet? | ||
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zyberjunior
17 Posts
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On April 30 2013 11:11 zyberjunior wrote: I've been using ZRS since 0.6.3 and I recently decided to change my game language to Korean. It had the unfortunate side effect or removing my ability to use the CTRL key on the right side of the keyboard. I'm quite accurate with my left hand on the mouse because I use it on any mouse that isn't mine but I've got an ergonomic Deathadder. How would you suggest arranging the create control group buttons so I can continue with The Core? How and why does the Korean language disable your right control? Can you switch it the the left control somehow? I imagine there would be some sort of lefty switch for that kind of thing. | ||
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zyberjunior
17 Posts
On April 30 2013 11:23 Antylamon wrote: How and why does the Korean language disable your right control? Can you switch it the the left control somehow? I imagine there would be some sort of lefty switch for that kind of thing. I can look in the hotkeys and it will say Ctrl+shift+{ is CG1. I'll try to press the keys but it doesn't let me. I can change it to shift+{ but not CTRL+shift+{. It works absolutely fine on the left side of the keyboard. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
I don't think its a good idea to use a thumb key for anything that will be used repetitively. I don't play terran at a terribly high level. Could the terrans in the thread share how often they build an add-on any more than one at a time? @Anty nick (eneyeseekay) made fleet keys and posts here pretty regularly. Anything useful in that layout that can be applied to TheCore has already been incorporated, probably at nick's suggestion, but I'm not going to go through 210 pages to find out  Although if you've found something in there that could be of use, I'd love to know it @zyber I think that ctrl+shift+{ is your language change hotkey. It likely functions the same as the FAQ for ctrl+shift+0 (#2). I'd take a look at that. | ||
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Shane
Canada2 Posts
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Borskey
160 Posts
I was thinking, for TRM it might be worth swapping snipe ( "/" ) and EMP ( "I" ). I remember reading a Team Liquid thread a few years back ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=155732 ) suggesting that shift-queuing snipes is a good idea, but with snipe and shift both on your thumb it is a little clumsy. I doubt you would ever want to shift-queue an EMP. It might be that the thread I linked is outdated however, and I'm not particularly well versed in using ghosts, so I'd like to know what some high level terrans who use ghosts frequently think. Edit: On testing, it seems that when simply holding down snipe and spamming left click as fast as possible I don't have the issue of accidentally selecting the unit I'm attacking, which I think was the whole reason you had to shift-queue snipes in the first place. Maybe this was changed in a patch or something? | ||
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