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On March 02 2013 06:21 metroid composite wrote:
Hm, actually, one configuration I don't see mentioned that has a very high success rate so far is...
In ZZ vs ZZ, one zerg opens 10 pool bane (the 1v1 build), the other opens a normal 10 pool. Pressure a bit, force lings out; you'll probably have similar amounts of lings so pull back for 20 seconds and wait for banes. finish banes and win.
You list the standard ZZ vs ZZ build as one 10p one roach, and I'm trying to figure out how 10p + roach holds 10p + 10p bane. Like...if you seven roach rush, there's a good 40 seconds when your opponents will have banelings and you won't have roaches. That seems too long.
Yes, like I mentioned before on the guide it's just what I feel are some of the best ways to open, I'm not saying it's the only ways to open, or that you should do it every game, 10pool + 10pool bane is viable, assuming that you actually get damage done, if they scout the baneling nest they can easily get a spinecrawler up and a queen + spine can easily hold a 10pool baneling, and the player will have a much later speed, and if the banes don't work and the player gets roaches out it is most likely GG, though in a majority of cases people will die to the banelings.
Yes 10pool + 10pool bane is viable vs ZZ and sometimes even ZP, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it unless it fits you and your partners playstyle.
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I've been trying the 11 gas into hellion banshee. What are the transitions I can go from there? I always feel behind 
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On March 02 2013 21:04 daralharb wrote:I've been trying the 11 gas into hellion banshee. What are the transitions I can go from there? I always feel behind
Can you give a little more information, like what match ups are you doing it in.
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I play 2v2 with random partners. I've been going 11 hellion banshee pretty much whenever there is a zerg on the other team.
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On March 03 2013 00:13 daralharb wrote:
I play 2v2 with random partners. I've been going 11 hellion banshee pretty much whenever there is a zerg on the other team.
Okay, in random 2v2 you want to go to make sure your ally is going to do a corresponding build to your 11gas hellion, if you 11gas hellion and your ally decides to just go macro mode, you are generally going to get behind seeing you normally can't solo with hellions, if you do 11gas hellion into banshee and are playing RT, I recommend you get a medivac and just do a 4hellion drop into the not-zergs base, then start your cloak, then banshee. When transitioning, you want to make sure you pull off of 1 of your 2 refineries after you start your first banshee, and throw down a CC, at this point you want to set up your transition based on what they are going, but I personally normally end up going into mech, but it really depends on how the enemys composition is going to end up looking.
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This guide is almost spot on to what I do in 2v2
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Great work, but just a note, I used to do a lot of the 6minute dt rush but I've found that it's a rather bad build.
As of now I'm doing a 13 gate, 14 gas 15 gas build that chronos out 26 probes rather fast and gets 3 dts @ 6:15 but with a maxed economy off one base. I think 15 seconds is not a lot for 7-8 more probes and enough money to transition into anything.
What server do you play on ?
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Also I think you are severely underestimating the value of Phoenixes in 2vs2.
Maybe you haven't played a lot of PT but phoenix + marine tank is pretty much the go to build to counter basically any composition in the early / mid game.
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On March 03 2013 00:42 Geiko wrote:
Great work, but just a note, I used to do a lot of the 6minute dt rush but I've found that it's a rather bad build.
As of now I'm doing a 13 gate, 14 gas 15 gas build that chronos out 26 probes rather fast and gets 3 dts @ 6:15 but with a maxed economy off one base. I think 15 seconds is not a lot for 7-8 more probes and enough money to transition into anything.
What server do you play on ?
The difference between 6minute dt and 6:15-6:20, is that those 15-20 seconds actually in a lot of cases are the deciding factor of the game, yes it's an all-allin build, so if your team mate isn't committing as much as you, it can be a problem, I often do both 6minute and 615-620 dts, and generally I will recommend the 6minute, seeing that is where the game almost always ends regardless. If you are playing AT 6minute, if RT I think 615-620 is normally better.
I play on NA and KR.
On March 03 2013 00:46 Geiko wrote:
Also I think you are severely underestimating the value of Phoenixes in 2vs2.
Maybe you haven't played a lot of PT but phoenix + marine tank is pretty much the go to build to counter basically any composition in the early / mid game.
I don't underestimate phoenixes, but there are many people who get into the mindset, that once they start making phoenixes, they don't stop, which is an awful habit, people just like to over make them, also per 1 more phoenix you make, you are just slowing down your higher tech, phoenixes have a diminishing value.
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Thx for the guide mate. well written and makes sense.
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Hey, I'm ComBrO, another highly ranked 2v2 player who sees a few gaps in your matchups. In TTvTP, TT, and PP, I like to open reaper expand soft contain the whole game with initially 1 or 2 reapers with a transition into marine medivac. If your partner does this as well, you open with enough map control to defend your double expand, but you need to prioritize combat sheilds first to defend tank allins and make sure to bunker up/expand inbase so as not to die to a counter allin. This style might not be the best for your guide, as it is very counterattack oriented and is very taxing on mechanics, but I have been very successful with it. With the TXvZX matchups, I almost exclusively mech, as there is not much that zergs can do in the midgame short of mutalisks, and with a teammate who can help with anti-air, (z going muta/ terran going bio/ protoss going blink/air), there is not much that your zerg opponents can do to defend a big 6-9 tank push assuming you have been active (without losing your hellions from the 11 gas opening). I hope this helps round out your guide, and I would put more, but I havent been playing random 2v2 for a while now!
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Lol, someone is taking 2v2 seriously for once :p. I should play more 2v2s. Only thing I dislike about it is the players are mostly terrible until you get to the top of the masters ladders.
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Hey, thanks for your work!
One quick Question: How to deal with 10pool/Cannonrush as T/P? I feel a little bit lost there... 
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Thanks for the guide! Just referred a friend who loves 2v2 to it. Definitely looks like a better foundation than my,"well, when I play 1v1 I like these builds..." suggestions 
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Feeding strategies, or even worse, when a guy leaves the game on purpose right away to transfer his income before 5:00, are imo the most effective way to play 2v2, as well as, let's admit it, the lamest. You're essentially on a 2 base economy at the minute 4:00, you can tech very quickly while still have a buttload of units.
1 player on 2 bases is strictly more powerful than 2 players on 1 base, because an investment in tech from this player translates directly into a reward for a 2 base production, and not for a 1 base production. More simply, I think it's generally accepted that a full 2 base economy is more than twice as powerful as a full 1 base economy. It allows much sharper upgrades and tech timings, huge surge of upgraded units that are barely handleable and certainly not meant to be balanced.
The only downside (and why it's still fun to play 2v2) is that the game is only fun for 1 member out of 2, and not much for the feeder (or the leaver). That's why we don't see them more, people play 2v2s for fun, not for rank and glory, in general.
Rant aside, your guide is very cool and I'm glad that you left out the awful feed builds we sometimes see on the ladder :D
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On March 03 2013 00:36 puppylisk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 00:13 daralharb wrote:
I play 2v2 with random partners. I've been going 11 hellion banshee pretty much whenever there is a zerg on the other team. Okay, in random 2v2 you want to go to make sure your ally is going to do a corresponding build to your 11gas hellion, if you 11gas hellion and your ally decides to just go macro mode, you are generally going to get behind seeing you normally can't solo with hellions, if you do 11gas hellion into banshee and are playing RT, I recommend you get a medivac and just do a 4hellion drop into the not-zergs base, then start your cloak, then banshee. When transitioning, you want to make sure you pull off of 1 of your 2 refineries after you start your first banshee, and throw down a CC, at this point you want to set up your transition based on what they are going, but I personally normally end up going into mech, but it really depends on how the enemys composition is going to end up looking.
Thank you for your quick response! I've been trying to figure it out on my own and have been having the most success with a similar strategy listed above. Although I need to refine it. Thanks again for your help, and I enjoy your guide.
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Wow. This is awesome. Thanks for all the effort in helping out the rest if us.
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Awesome guide. Gonna share this with my 2v2 partners later.
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Wow, great guide, going to share with my partner later. Thanks!
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TeamGames especially 2v2 are the worst waste of time ever. The game forces you to all-in - thats a ridiculous joke.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
