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I honestly think a lot of the player area problems has to do with the fact that MLG (championships) are pro/amateur events where anyone can enter by paying a not so expensive price. Honestly if these areas were pro only it would be easy to allow coaches/teammates in to help out. Although at this time i don't believe this is possible because the line between pro/amateur is very thin in most cases.
I am sorry if this sounds insensitive but i do not care about the player rights of random competitors that may or may not be even taking the competition seriously. As a spectator and a paying subscription holder i ONLY care about the comfort of players who will be there to take the tournament serious and show games that are competitive at top levels. This includes ALL up and coming players who are focusing on competition rather than just looking to stand over MKP shoulder while he is playing.
I think MLG is on the right path with PRO passes for players. I think possibly the qualifications for this pro pass are not quite sufficient enough yet. I also believe the access of said pass may not be enough yet either. If they iron out these details it would be perfectly possible to say a player with a pro pass can have 1 (or possibly more) person in the area with them at any time. They can't do this with regular player passes because than everyone is bringing in friends attempting to meet and ogle players.
One more thing: i do think it would also be helpful to separate the practice facilities from the tournament area. Don't get me wrong I understand the extra costs and logistics involved in this.
tl;dr : I agree that the player area needs to be better suited for player/player needs; however, i could care less about "casual" players paying the entrance fee simply as a ploy to get special access. Pro/players serious about becoming pro should get special treatment as they are why i PAY to tune in.
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I think ideally the competitor's pit should be moved to a separate room. This gets rid of all the sound distraction that many players complain about. Adding a number of observing stations to the main hall of the tournament allows fans to spectate players in competing in the player pit.
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It's a simple fact of providing people with credentials and then making sure security knows about credentials and who can be where.
There really isn't much more to it than that.
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This doesn't really concern anyone other than the players, teams and MLG. I don't see the need for a thread. MLG probably has it's rules for a reason which is to prevent cheating. Obviously that's the reason you would get asked to leave for taking pictures. Seems like you and incontrol just are flexin your power as public figures because you're mad that you got kicked out of the players area. It's quite unnecessary for incontrol to tweet about it and for you to make a thread because you could just be communicating your concerns to MLG directly. Taking it public just makes it seem like retribution.
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Less games, with a smaller tourney would solve all these issues. As it stands, people don't watch well over half the games played because so many are being played at the same time.
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8748 Posts
I'd like the player pit and lounge to be connected and designed to hold nearly every player that's competing at once. Make part of the player lounge go backstage? I think backstage at most venues is pretty spacious. If that's not possible, maybe start the floor plan from scratch. I'm sure a ton of thought and refinement has gone into the current floor plan but the event has evolved and there are new things being demanded of the floor plan.
I'd like there to be a bunch of 40in+ monitors surrounding the player pit showing matches (can be first person views of players). For example, stations 1-5 could have the best matches of the round with 10 corresponding monitors. Fans shouldn't have to strain to see a player's monitor. Players shouldn't be crowded by fans (this hasn't been a major issue for players afaik, fans are respectful, but it's a matter of atmosphere).
Stations 1 and 2, which are on a mini-stage with big monitors hanging above the players, allowing a crowd to watch more easily, are just copies of stations done for Halo. I don't think they are good for SC2 because playing SC2 is much more sensitive than playing Halo so whenever a ref or a player at the other station is walking on the stage, it's disruptive. Fans crowd the area and again that hasn't been a huge issue but it's a matter of atmosphere. Players should feel like they have a nice barrier and I think that's possible without causing fans to feel like they're too remote. I think because of the nature of the game, this wasn't an issue for Halo but it's a bit different for SC2. I think monitors around the player pit could serve the purpose of the mini-stage better.
I think the player pit should have an area designated for fan interaction. If a player just won a match that was on the monitors, he ought to be able to go mingle with the fans. I would hope it'd become a thing. Fans would know that the player is there specifically for them so the fans who do not want to be a disturbance to players can comfortably approach. When the player wants to leave for rest or the next match, it'd be natural to say bye and walk back into the player pit (as opposed to walking through the venue's open floor and having to decline 10 fans in a 50 foot walk).
Extra chairs in the player pit would be nice but definitely a luxury. There should be plenty of seating in the player lounge.
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On June 16 2012 04:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I'd like the player pit and lounge to be connected and designed to hold nearly every player that's competing at once. Make part of the player lounge go backstage? I think backstage at most venues is pretty spacious. If that's not possible, maybe start the floor plan from scratch. I'm sure a ton of thought and refinement has gone into the current floor plan but the event has evolved and there are new things being demanded of the floor plan.
I'd like there to be a bunch of 40in+ monitors surrounding the player pit showing matches (can be first person views of players). For example, stations 1-5 could have the best matches of the round with 10 corresponding monitors. Fans shouldn't have to strain to see a player's monitor. Players shouldn't be crowded by fans (this hasn't been a major issue for players afaik, fans are respectful, but it's a matter of atmosphere).
Stations 1 and 2, which are on a mini-stage with big monitors hanging above the players, allowing a crowd to watch more easily, are just copies of stations done for Halo. I don't think they are good for SC2 because playing SC2 is much more sensitive than playing Halo so whenever a ref or a player at the other station is walking on the stage, it's disruptive. Fans crowd the area and again that hasn't been a huge issue but it's a matter of atmosphere. Players should feel like they have a nice barrier and I think that's possible without causing fans to feel like they're too remote. I think because of the nature of the game, this wasn't an issue for Halo but it's a bit different for SC2. I think monitors around the player pit could serve the purpose of the mini-stage better.
I think the player pit should have an area designated for fan interaction. If a player just won a match that was on the monitors, he ought to be able to go mingle with the fans. I would hope it'd become a thing. Fans would know that the player is there specifically for them so the fans who do not want to be a disturbance to players can comfortably approach. When the player wants to leave for rest or the next match, it'd be natural to say bye and walk back into the player pit (as opposed to walking through the venue's open floor and having to decline 10 fans in a 50 foot walk).
Extra chairs in the player pit would be nice but definitely a luxury. There should be plenty of seating in the player lounge.
Floor planning sounds nice on paper. But who will pay for the large costs? And are there reports on whether tournament hosters are actually making an operating income? Staff are grunty probably because they are paid so shitty. What would happen if the floor was empty 3/4s for the year. Is it only for an eSports venue? Then that is a waste of money/space.
I doubt the executives will authorize a large budget for eSports which generate poor income for the company.
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On June 16 2012 04:22 RonNation wrote:
It's a simple fact of providing people with credentials and then making sure security knows about credentials and who can be where.
There really isn't much more to it than that.
That still didn't always work. We were given press passes and allowed in the player pit on Friday but not Saturday and Sunday. It really just boils down to the event security being inconsistent with who they let in. Not sure who they were getting their instructions from though.
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8748 Posts
On June 16 2012 05:06 MicroTastiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 04:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I'd like the player pit and lounge to be connected and designed to hold nearly every player that's competing at once. Make part of the player lounge go backstage? I think backstage at most venues is pretty spacious. If that's not possible, maybe start the floor plan from scratch. I'm sure a ton of thought and refinement has gone into the current floor plan but the event has evolved and there are new things being demanded of the floor plan.
I'd like there to be a bunch of 40in+ monitors surrounding the player pit showing matches (can be first person views of players). For example, stations 1-5 could have the best matches of the round with 10 corresponding monitors. Fans shouldn't have to strain to see a player's monitor. Players shouldn't be crowded by fans (this hasn't been a major issue for players afaik, fans are respectful, but it's a matter of atmosphere).
Stations 1 and 2, which are on a mini-stage with big monitors hanging above the players, allowing a crowd to watch more easily, are just copies of stations done for Halo. I don't think they are good for SC2 because playing SC2 is much more sensitive than playing Halo so whenever a ref or a player at the other station is walking on the stage, it's disruptive. Fans crowd the area and again that hasn't been a huge issue but it's a matter of atmosphere. Players should feel like they have a nice barrier and I think that's possible without causing fans to feel like they're too remote. I think because of the nature of the game, this wasn't an issue for Halo but it's a bit different for SC2. I think monitors around the player pit could serve the purpose of the mini-stage better.
I think the player pit should have an area designated for fan interaction. If a player just won a match that was on the monitors, he ought to be able to go mingle with the fans. I would hope it'd become a thing. Fans would know that the player is there specifically for them so the fans who do not want to be a disturbance to players can comfortably approach. When the player wants to leave for rest or the next match, it'd be natural to say bye and walk back into the player pit (as opposed to walking through the venue's open floor and having to decline 10 fans in a 50 foot walk).
Extra chairs in the player pit would be nice but definitely a luxury. There should be plenty of seating in the player lounge. Floor planning sounds nice on paper. But who will pay for the large costs? And are there reports on whether tournament hosters are actually making an operating income? Staff are grunty probably because they are paid so shitty. What would happen if the floor was empty 3/4s for the year. Is it only for an eSports venue? Then that is a waste of money/space. I doubt the executives will authorize a large budget for eSports which generate poor income for the company.
It seems like you don't know what MLG is or how it operates because I feel like your questions and concerns aren't really applicable. MLG's only business is eSports. They have a huge budget and have proven repeatedly that they can make costly adjustments if they yield a better experience for fans or players. They don't have their own venue but rather a bunch of trucks full of equipment and they rent out halls from convention centers across the US. They're all just big ass halls that fit MLG's floor plan, which has barriers of curtains, ropes and lines of booths as well as using the convention center's walls. There are limits on the sizes of the halls but MLG can arrange their equipment and stages however they like. I'm sure there are a ton of issues with designing the floor plan that I'm ignorant of so I can only express the shortcomings of the current plan and maybe they'll look into a redesign that deals with the new variables.
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Thanks so much for the discussion so far, everyone. The more talk and debate we can stir up on this topic, the more feedback MLG has to improve.
On June 16 2012 04:27 Doodsmack wrote:
This doesn't really concern anyone other than the players, teams and MLG. I don't see the need for a thread. MLG probably has it's rules for a reason which is to prevent cheating. Obviously that's the reason you would get asked to leave for taking pictures. Seems like you and incontrol just are flexin your power as public figures because you're mad that you got kicked out of the players area. It's quite unnecessary for incontrol to tweet about it and for you to make a thread because you could just be communicating your concerns to MLG directly. Taking it public just makes it seem like retribution.
The reason for the thread is not "retribution." This thread is to create a discussion and get public opinions. With this thread we can give healthy feedback to MLG so that the league can improve and be a better experience for players.
As for when I got kicked out... my players were warming up in Mortal Kombat right after the Soul Calibur finals. How could taking pictures of their faces while they are practicing be cheating? Come on, Dood. That's just silly 
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On June 16 2012 04:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I'd like the player pit and lounge to be connected and designed to hold nearly every player that's competing at once. Make part of the player lounge go backstage? I think backstage at most venues is pretty spacious. If that's not possible, maybe start the floor plan from scratch. I'm sure a ton of thought and refinement has gone into the current floor plan but the event has evolved and there are new things being demanded of the floor plan.
I'd like there to be a bunch of 40in+ monitors surrounding the player pit showing matches (can be first person views of players). For example, stations 1-5 could have the best matches of the round with 10 corresponding monitors. Fans shouldn't have to strain to see a player's monitor. Players shouldn't be crowded by fans (this hasn't been a major issue for players afaik, fans are respectful, but it's a matter of atmosphere).
Stations 1 and 2, which are on a mini-stage with big monitors hanging above the players, allowing a crowd to watch more easily, are just copies of stations done for Halo. I don't think they are good for SC2 because playing SC2 is much more sensitive than playing Halo so whenever a ref or a player at the other station is walking on the stage, it's disruptive. Fans crowd the area and again that hasn't been a huge issue but it's a matter of atmosphere. Players should feel like they have a nice barrier and I think that's possible without causing fans to feel like they're too remote. I think because of the nature of the game, this wasn't an issue for Halo but it's a bit different for SC2. I think monitors around the player pit could serve the purpose of the mini-stage better.
I think the player pit should have an area designated for fan interaction. If a player just won a match that was on the monitors, he ought to be able to go mingle with the fans. I would hope it'd become a thing. Fans would know that the player is there specifically for them so the fans who do not want to be a disturbance to players can comfortably approach. When the player wants to leave for rest or the next match, it'd be natural to say bye and walk back into the player pit (as opposed to walking through the venue's open floor and having to decline 10 fans in a 50 foot walk).
Extra chairs in the player pit would be nice but definitely a luxury. There should be plenty of seating in the player lounge.
I really like the idea of a player lounge/pit/fan interaction area. I think this, whatever they decide to do, should be the priority right now. Players being comfortable is the biggest concern anyone should have. If a player isn't in as optimal conditions as he can possibly be in, he won't give as good as games as he can. That is just the way it works. I've heard the idea of monitors in the player pit several times before, and really like it. Even if they didn't buy them all at once, I'm sure they could manage a way to add a few each event.
I also find the rule very strange that they don't want team mates talking in between games. It's a huge part of every sport I have ever seen. Coach/team interaction during down time is one of the defining moments of sports. Will a fighter beable to rally between rounds, will a team be able to come back from half time, etc etc. It makes it all the stranger to see MLG have a rule like that when I watch GSL and the coach and oftentimes a team mate will go in the booth literally every match. Hopefully that rule was just a one off thing that the ref's decided to enforce, and doesn't turn into MLG's extended series.
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I was at MLG with a manager badge and I spent a lot of time in the MLG player area. I'm friends with some of the officials and I was told "we are pretty strict on it at the start when all stations are full cuz we can't have a ton of people who aren't playing cluttering the area, but once it gets deep into MLG and there is a lot of empty space in here we relax on that policy."
I was standing right next to iNcontroL when he got asked to leave. I will say from an un-bias standpoint that it was kind of B.S. because there was so much empty space, there was no "need" to have him leave to make space or anything. I do understand that they have rules to enforce and if they are told to do something by their supervisors then they have to do it so it seems like something that needs to change from the top.
At the next MLG I expect that it won't be such an issue, they will either design a larger player area so they can be more relaxed on that rule or figure something else out so that everyone can have fun at MLG the whole time.
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I read IncontroLs thing on his experience, it makes me not want to ever attend an mlg. Also its weird to hear about behind the scenes things that are happening that you would never expect if you just watched the stream (Koreans arent told to leave but everyone else is? Really??) Seems way out of whack.
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On June 16 2012 12:47 Aveng3r wrote:
I read IncontroLs thing on his experience, it makes me not want to ever attend an mlg. Also its weird to hear about behind the scenes things that are happening that you would never expect if you just watched the stream (Koreans arent told to leave but everyone else is? Really??) Seems way out of whack.
Don't be a drama queen, you would attend an MLG if you had the chance lol.
I'm sure it's just a coincedence that two of the people who got kicked out of the player area are now the ones calling for "public discussion and debate." As if the input of people who've never been to an MLG has any worth. "Yeah well I've read your side of the story and you seem pretty convinced, so yeah cater to teh playerz!!1" As I said this is an issue between the players and MLG.
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I think by raising the costs of joining the tournament would reduce the number of players without cutting out those who would go regardless. This will remove the majority of joe-bronze players joining the tournament for the experience (I don't have a problem with people doing it, I wanted to be joe-platinum playing, personally) and allow for whatever cost increase is necessary to make the player pit more spacious, or whatever.
I like watching the player play in person, myself. I was standing behind Leenock in providence and it was truly an awesome experience. I want to see the no-names take on the pros, see the no-names take on each other, see competition plain and simple. I don't know how they could create that in any sort of reasonable way without changing everything around. Maybe increase the number of "mini stages" and then make the rest of the games played in a backstage pit, so this way you get a couple pros playing in front of a crowd, with a small area for teamates and coaches to watch (in seats would be nice) and maybe one stage with a random game with no-names too, just to give us the chance to see these potential diamonds in the rough. There are like 2 rows right now of players we don't see anyway, no reason to have all of that in front of the spectators. Hell you can have like 4 sets of booths where the huge player area is now, give tons of people the chance to play in booths over the weekend. using extra booths you keep the noise/distraction issue down to a minimum, utilize more of the walls and keep spectators/booths in the middle maybe?
Minibooths would also rectify the teammates/coaches issue. Just require the players to stay in the booth while the match is going on, and allow GSL calibur "ok he likes to do this, so this game maybe think about doing this" for 2 minutes or whatever. Press would stay outside of the booths for their pictures, which is plenty. Booths can open into a hallway leading to a player lounge so the loser doesn't need to turn down fans when they're unhappy, etc.
I think a change to the floor plan is necessary, but that's a huge undertaking, and honestly I wonder if this was brought to the attention of MLG before ours. I get the feeling that sundance would be "oh shit, you're unhappy with the player area EG/Liquid/coL/Quantic/whoever? What can we do to fix it, any ideas?" and would be receptive to the concerns at least. Hell if nothing else he'll certainly "get it". Creating a random thread without discussing it with MLG and stating that in the OP is kinda like trying to get the community to contact sponsors when you haven't given them a chance to even think about it.
I'm rambling, I know. To sum it all up, I think that yes something needs to be done, but without showing that you've done your due dilligence, this is very similar to the community calling to contact sponsors over a personality's actions before going to the team first. I don't think this is as bad, but it's certainly not good.
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On June 16 2012 12:52 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 12:47 Aveng3r wrote:
I read IncontroLs thing on his experience, it makes me not want to ever attend an mlg. Also its weird to hear about behind the scenes things that are happening that you would never expect if you just watched the stream (Koreans arent told to leave but everyone else is? Really??) Seems way out of whack. Don't be a drama queen, you would attend an MLG if you had the chance lol. I'm sure it's just a coincedence that two of the people who got kicked out of the player area are now the ones calling for "public discussion and debate." As if the input of people who've never been to an MLG has any worth. "Yeah well I've read your side of the story and you seem pretty convinced, so yeah cater to teh playerz!!1" As I said this is an issue between the players and MLG.
Right cause spectators have no room in the conversation oook bud lol From the sounds of it spectating is about as bad as being a player since it's sooo damn hard to even see anything that isn't on the mainstage which is a huge problem.
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MLG is great and ambitious, but I just don't find the 'speed marathon' tournament very appealing. Starcraft lends itself much better to amazing games when players have time to prepare builds, strats, etc, as opposed to a fighting game where it's much more tactical and spontaneous. If MLG really cared most about top game quality and player experience/comfort, they'd have a single location broadcasting on-site and help catalyze a geographic hub of esports in America (ideally in LA/SF to be convenient for Koreans).
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When I competed, I have never had any problems, however I can see how something like this could happen.
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I don't know about the rest of the venues, but at MLG Anaheim there was plenty of space to extend the competitor's area. There were huge gaps of space.
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Im really worried what Incontrol wrote about racisme! Something has to be done
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EPT
