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BC's Arkham Asylum - Page 19

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
July 18 2011 03:26 GMT
#361
Hmmm, a discussion of mechanics to start off eh? Very well. You all seemed to have missed the guide to using PMs! Something I desperately need (Dx.)

For PMs, remember:
-Give away as little information as possible. Realize that if the information goes into the wrong hands, we won't get a DROP of it.
-Be a skeptic. Realize how vulnerable to manipulation you are when dealing with a Mafia team alone in PM land. Look at XLII to see how badly BC, our gracious host, screwed town over through PMs.
-Go in there with a purpose. Personally, I'd get out of contact once I realize my purpose is done.
-You don't have to respond to every PM.
-You don't need PM land to be successful in scum hunting. Play to your strengths. If you're bad in PMs like I am, you don't need to go in there.
darkness overpowering
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
July 18 2011 03:28 GMT
#362
On July 18 2011 12:03 Curu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 11:17 notasmurf wrote:
Hello.

Now, before we go off and venture forth, I'd like us to take a look at another recent game that ended quiet badly for the town, Closed Casket Mafia.

The town lost Closed Casket Mafia because of two reasons
  • People lied. Do not lie. There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town. Do not fakeclaim to ‘draw a hit’. Two of the mislynches in Closed Casket Mafia were directly caused by lies
  • The town killed itself. The mafia didn't do much; the town just went around shooting each other until everyone died. People were lynched more of emotion than what the facts were. Consider lylo Chezinu was lynched in spite of the fact that 1) DT returned a green check 2) Chezinu was playing considerably more pro town than before 3) Radfied somehow survived night one.


What we need to do as town this game is to agree on two things in public.

1. Do not fakeclaim Show me a game with a townie fakeclaiming publically or lying about their checks, and I’ll show you a game where the same townie could have achieved a much better result telling the truth
2. Do your own analysis Just cause three people say Bloodycobbler is skummy doesn’t mean that he actually is scum. Before you vote for someone, please read over their posts and develop an opinion for yourself.

Keep in mind this just applies in public. In PMs go have fun guys
+ Show Spoiler +
I know that people like clicking on spoilers, so I put this here to encourage you to read this post


Do not lie he says, but his very name itself is a lie. Oh ho ho.

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 11:43 redFF wrote:
Vigs shoot lurkers and liars unless you are good at scumhunting, which very few people are.



redFF, would you consider yourself one of those good scumhunters that are oh so very elusive? I would like to know how confident you are good sir.

nope
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
July 18 2011 03:29 GMT
#363
EDBWOP: also lets have less spammy posts like the one i quoted above me. They add nothing to the discussion and just take up space and add more useless stuff to read.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 18 2011 03:32 GMT
#364
Oh but what is there to do day 1 but spam? Amid all the dross might be hidden bits of gold.
wat
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
July 18 2011 03:33 GMT
#365
Heres the list of newbs and vets in the game.
1. snotboogie Newb
2. Deconduo Vet
3. Kurumi NEWB LOL
4. curu Newb
5. RebirthofLegend Vet
6. Amber[LighT] Vet
7. hiro protagonist Newb
8. nisani201 Newb
9. Pyo Newb
10.Drazerk Newb
11. supersoft Newb
12. Jackal58 LOL
13. Mr. Wiggles Vet
14. prplhz Newb
15. mig Newb
16. notasmurf Newb
17. kenpachi LOL
18. Syllogism Newb
19. Palmar Newb
20. Sevryn Newb
21. ghrur Vet
22. Varysthespider Newb
23. node Vet
24, coagulation Vet
25. kavdragon Vet
26. Lucidity Newb
27. ketomai Newb
28. creamybutter Newb
29. redff Vet
30. youngminii Vet
31. liquid`nazgul Newb
32. Shraft Newb
33. cjrninja Newb
34. visceraeyes Newb
35. theawesomeall Newb
36. eternalmisfit Newb
37. zona Vet
38. gtrsrs Newb
39. ribboo Newb
40. sinani206 Newb
Sevryn
Profile Joined September 2010
698 Posts
July 18 2011 03:34 GMT
#366
On July 18 2011 12:03 Curu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 11:17 notasmurf wrote:
Hello.

Now, before we go off and venture forth, I'd like us to take a look at another recent game that ended quiet badly for the town, Closed Casket Mafia.

The town lost Closed Casket Mafia because of two reasons
  • People lied. Do not lie. There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town. Do not fakeclaim to ‘draw a hit’. Two of the mislynches in Closed Casket Mafia were directly caused by lies
  • The town killed itself. The mafia didn't do much; the town just went around shooting each other until everyone died. People were lynched more of emotion than what the facts were. Consider lylo Chezinu was lynched in spite of the fact that 1) DT returned a green check 2) Chezinu was playing considerably more pro town than before 3) Radfied somehow survived night one.


What we need to do as town this game is to agree on two things in public.

1. Do not fakeclaim Show me a game with a townie fakeclaiming publically or lying about their checks, and I’ll show you a game where the same townie could have achieved a much better result telling the truth
2. Do your own analysis Just cause three people say Bloodycobbler is skummy doesn’t mean that he actually is scum. Before you vote for someone, please read over their posts and develop an opinion for yourself.

Keep in mind this just applies in public. In PMs go have fun guys
+ Show Spoiler +
I know that people like clicking on spoilers, so I put this here to encourage you to read this post


Do not lie he says, but his very name itself is a lie. Oh ho ho.

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 11:43 redFF wrote:
Vigs shoot lurkers and liars unless you are good at scumhunting, which very few people are.



redFF, would you consider yourself one of those good scumhunters that are oh so very elusive? I would like to know how confident you are good sir.

His name was done before the game so use use the fact that hes a smurf to argue against the common sense advice that he's giving seems pretty anti-town.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 18 2011 03:37 GMT
#367
Oh I'm not advocating against his advice. Just a simple irony with words and names.

Do you find anyone scummy yet besides me Sevryn?
wat
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
July 18 2011 03:38 GMT
#368
On July 18 2011 12:34 Sevryn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 12:03 Curu wrote:
On July 18 2011 11:17 notasmurf wrote:
Hello.

Now, before we go off and venture forth, I'd like us to take a look at another recent game that ended quiet badly for the town, Closed Casket Mafia.

The town lost Closed Casket Mafia because of two reasons
  • People lied. Do not lie. There is absolutely no reason to lie to the town. Do not fakeclaim to ‘draw a hit’. Two of the mislynches in Closed Casket Mafia were directly caused by lies
  • The town killed itself. The mafia didn't do much; the town just went around shooting each other until everyone died. People were lynched more of emotion than what the facts were. Consider lylo Chezinu was lynched in spite of the fact that 1) DT returned a green check 2) Chezinu was playing considerably more pro town than before 3) Radfied somehow survived night one.


What we need to do as town this game is to agree on two things in public.

1. Do not fakeclaim Show me a game with a townie fakeclaiming publically or lying about their checks, and I’ll show you a game where the same townie could have achieved a much better result telling the truth
2. Do your own analysis Just cause three people say Bloodycobbler is skummy doesn’t mean that he actually is scum. Before you vote for someone, please read over their posts and develop an opinion for yourself.

Keep in mind this just applies in public. In PMs go have fun guys
+ Show Spoiler +
I know that people like clicking on spoilers, so I put this here to encourage you to read this post


Do not lie he says, but his very name itself is a lie. Oh ho ho.

On July 18 2011 11:43 redFF wrote:
Vigs shoot lurkers and liars unless you are good at scumhunting, which very few people are.



redFF, would you consider yourself one of those good scumhunters that are oh so very elusive? I would like to know how confident you are good sir.

His name was done before the game so use use the fact that hes a smurf to argue against the common sense advice that he's giving seems pretty anti-town.


I think it was a joke...
CreamyButter
Profile Joined February 2010
United States56 Posts
July 18 2011 03:39 GMT
#369
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:

CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?


Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers.

Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list.

From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members.

A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though.

From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies.

As a 3rd party player:
It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read.

There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though,
On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:

It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.

I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess.

I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs.
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
July 18 2011 03:41 GMT
#370
Oh redFF and Curu you cuties, spamming up the thread already. You've got a long way to 50 pages though!
darkness overpowering
CreamyButter
Profile Joined February 2010
United States56 Posts
July 18 2011 03:43 GMT
#371
On the subject of testing people, maybe we should write a 10 or so question test with pointed questions, and get everyone to write answers to them within a 15 minute time limit for pressure, and then have everyone post their answers all at the exact same time so no one gets influenced. Idk, gtg bye
redFF
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3910 Posts
July 18 2011 03:43 GMT
#372
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?

What is the point of this question? Is it scumhunting? I don't think so. All it looks like to me is scum asking for tips but idk
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
July 18 2011 03:45 GMT
#373
On July 18 2011 12:43 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?

What is the point of this question? Is it scumhunting? I don't think so. All it looks like to me is scum asking for tips but idk


Self admitted newbies are dangerous. Now you all know how much effort/thought the right honourable CreamyButter is willing to put into the game.
wat
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
July 18 2011 03:46 GMT
#374
If scum need any tips on how to play feel free to PM any questions.
Sevryn
Profile Joined September 2010
698 Posts
July 18 2011 03:46 GMT
#375
On July 18 2011 12:37 Curu wrote:
Oh I'm not advocating against his advice. Just a simple irony with words and names.

Do you find anyone scummy yet besides me Sevryn?

I noticed the irony as well I just didn't want to mention it because its distracting from what in my opinion is pretty sound advice.
As to who i find scummy I haven't noticed anything blatant. But it is just the start of a game.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
July 18 2011 03:54 GMT
#376
On July 18 2011 12:43 redFF wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?

What is the point of this question? Is it scumhunting? I don't think so. All it looks like to me is scum asking for tips but idk


The only purpose I can think of is to set out an optimal scum plan and make it public so that town may use it later to see who's acting according to that plan.

That being said, that was a really long post from CreamyButter giving advice to scum, and I have to question why exactly he went to all that trouble to make something that has a high chance of helping scum?
CreamyButter
Profile Joined February 2010
United States56 Posts
July 18 2011 04:05 GMT
#377
Ok I haven't actually left yet, eating lunch.
Most of what I posted was off the top of my head with like 5-10 minutes of thought. Given that there are definitely at least a few vets on the mafia team, and that those vets will be telling their new players what to do, I think it stands to reason that everything I posted is well within the realms of what the mafia has already though of. If I in fact said anything of consequence, well, sorry, I guess I'll stop now. My reasoning was that all new players on the mafia will already be getting help from the vets on the mafia, a new player like me posting superficial advice will only serve two purposes:

1. I might write something scummy and slip up
2. A new, town-oriented player might actually learn something they hadn't thought of, which helps us out.

Please stop pointing fingers with nothing else in the post, it seems pretty useless. Either explain why what I said was scummy, make a plan (even a stupid one, as a trap for agree-ers), or think of better test questions to ask.
snotboogie
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Australia3550 Posts
July 18 2011 04:13 GMT
#378
On July 18 2011 13:05 CreamyButter wrote:
Ok I haven't actually left yet, eating lunch.
Most of what I posted was off the top of my head with like 5-10 minutes of thought. Given that there are definitely at least a few vets on the mafia team, and that those vets will be telling their new players what to do, I think it stands to reason that everything I posted is well within the realms of what the mafia has already though of. If I in fact said anything of consequence, well, sorry, I guess I'll stop now. My reasoning was that all new players on the mafia will already be getting help from the vets on the mafia, a new player like me posting superficial advice will only serve two purposes:

1. I might write something scummy and slip up
2. A new, town-oriented player might actually learn something they hadn't thought of, which helps us out.

Please stop pointing fingers with nothing else in the post, it seems pretty useless. Either explain why what I said was scummy, make a plan (even a stupid one, as a trap for agree-ers), or think of better test questions to ask.


Well I only meant to question, I wasn't accusing you yet. My main reason for questioning is that your post seems congruent with an insane inmate encouraging scum to reach out to them.

Pyo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States738 Posts
July 18 2011 04:14 GMT
#379
On July 18 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, so let's get this started!

First things first, let's lay out some things we want to achieve, and some guidelines.

A pro-town atmosphere

This normally goes without saying, but it often bears repeating. If we want to catch scum, we need to have the proper environment for scum hunting and for communicating with each other. This means a couple things:

  • Promoting scum hunting.
  • Not having pointless arguments
  • Actively contributing
  • All that jazz


Basically, we want to keep the thread as clean as possible, because chaos best serves mafia, not town. If you really don't know what to do, there's town guides. I'm not going to write one here, because I'm too lazy, and don't consider myself experienced enough to try. However, I am going to go through the three points above, as I think they are very important.

We always want people to scum-hunt. There's never an excuse not to scum-hunt; everyone can do it. This provides us with many benefits. First, it's the primary method for actually finding scum. It also means that people have to give their actual thoughts, and have to come up with things beyond "I agree". This gives us information, and information is good. It lets us know what you're thinking, and it puts pressure on mafia to have to contribute. Also, forcing mafia to scum-hunt means that there's a good chance of catching them just based on their analysis, because it's hard to find people who are scummy, when you know they aren't scum.

Next, we want to avoid bickering. This goes hand in hand with keeping the thread clean. This is different from actually debating with people, and you should be able to tell the difference between rationality, and NO U. If anyone is having a pointless argument, they will be asked to stop. It doesn't help town, only mafia.

Lastly, we want people to contribute. There's a posting limit of 5 posts per day/night, but that doesn't give you permission to skirt that limit. It's easy for mafia to hide amongst lurkers, and beyond that, lurkers are nearly impossible to analyze. So, contribute. This doesn't mean make tons of pointless one-liners, it means providing actual thoughts, analysis, and content. You can do it, I believe in you. And if you don't, we can always just ask a vig to shoot you. We don't want people to lurk.

Clues

There's clues in this game. However, all clue analysis MUST MUST MUST be backed up by post analysis. Before you post the clue analysis too. The reason for this, is that clues will most likely point to all kills. this means that some of the clues are going to point to vigs, some will point to third parties, and the others will point to mafia. Accidentally outing a vig because you solved the clues about them is bad. So, if you think someone's attached to a clue, go back and re-read their posts. If you think they look scummy, then post an analysis that contains the clue analysis. If you think they're town, just hold onto your analysis. Clue-analysis should always be used to supplement an actual behavioural analysis. It should never be the main point for calling someone scummy. In other words: Clues pointing towards a person does not equal scum.

Third Parties

Looking at the third parties, here's what we want:

-We want Joker to die.
-We want Batman to kill Joker.
-This means that Batman wins, and should hopefully be removed from the game, also removing Ra’as Al Ghul who can no longer achieve his victory condition.

This is the optimal way the third party part of the game will go. We want Batman to kill Joker before Ra'as can kill Batman, so that we don't have to deal with Joker ourselves. So, if you think someone's acting like an SK, don't be afraid to point it out, as this should help Batman achieve his win-con, and let us get on with the rest of the game.

If Joker is lynched, is Batman removed from the game?
If Batman is removed from the game, is Ra'as removed from the game?


Thoughts? Disagreements? Let's get this rolling.


On July 18 2011 12:39 CreamyButter wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:

CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?


Ummm. Well. First order of business is of course ensuring that all mafia members are actively contributing to the thread. For the newer players, I might consider giving them a talking point, or else assigning one mafia to make an inconsequential "slip" in the thread, so that the less experienced mafia members can analyze properly without feeling guilty and without actually slipping up. I would pick the newest players and make sure they know what they're doing, basically, and if not I would help them compose their posts before they post them. After all mafia members are actively posting, I would try to shift the demographic being targeted in the thread to something less dangerous, such as lynching all lurkers.

Also, since there seems to be a zodiac/veteran list going up, I would make sure to elect a figurehead boss, so that the boss doesn't end up on the list.

From there, use PMs to harass/poke people and figure out what roles they have/infiltrate their circles >.> Avoid hitting vets, figure out where the hatter's bombs are before killing them, hit medics, boring stuff etc. I would be actively PMing, to make sure the town doesn't get up to anything worthwhile. Possibly coordinate PMs with other mafia members.

A priority is reaching out to the insane inmates, and integrating them into the mafia circle. With no rolechecker, though, I'm not sure how mafia would do this. I guess they would get the DT to check on someone who isn't in the known mafia circle, and if the DT claims that he's seeing red, then the guy being checked is probably insane because no 3rd party would set themselves as red. For this reason I might consider not killing DTs right away as long as he's being properly manipulated. Batman is useless because he can't claim and he can't reveal his findings, though.

From what I can tell, it is in mafia's best interest to get the 3rd parties lynched. The 3rd parties might randomly kill a mafia member at night, and might eat up night hits, and it is impossible to cooperate with them since they can't claim. I guess I would just leave random hints everywhere that someone (someone who isn't mafia) is Batman and hope he dies.

As a 3rd party player:
It seems to be in Joker's best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible, so he would keep mafia alive at first, so that their KP is higher. Batman and Ra'as, on the other hand, want to keep the game running longer, so that they have time to hunt. As Batman I would default to rolechecking, and killing only when either confirmed or if one side seems like it's winning. As Ra'as I would target lurkers/useless seeming people until I get a read.

There seems to be enough vigilante advice, so maybe it's time to stop with that. As for DT advice though,
On July 18 2011 11:32 notasmurf wrote:

It's not who the veteran players are that we should be concerned about. It's who the new players are.
These are the people that we should focus our DT check on, and take a closer look during scumhunting.
By no means am I saying we should lynch new players instead of old ones. Obviously we need to lynch the best person possible. But what I'm saying is that they tend to get overlooked.

I agree that DTs should check the newer, more easy ignorable players, instead of the vets. Since as a DT you can only trust a red reading, there's no way to try and build a circle around yourself. It would also be much easier to get a newer, inactive, partially illiterate player lynched than an old one. So check people that you think yourself capable of actually getting lynched i guess.

I have to study/class, will be back later today. I don't really know how to give/identify good analysis, but I'm fully open to being tested/asked stupid questions to see if I screw up, so feel free to send me PMs.



I might be a "newb" but from my limited experience, pretty much every time someone comes out with one of these massive long policy spam posts, they've been scum. Just sayin'
Mr. Wiggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada5894 Posts
July 18 2011 04:14 GMT
#380
On July 18 2011 12:54 snotboogie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2011 12:43 redFF wrote:
On July 18 2011 10:37 Curu wrote:
CreamyButter, a question for you if I may. Taking the setup into consideration, how would you propose to play as Mafia this game if you were indeed to receive such a role?

What is the point of this question? Is it scumhunting? I don't think so. All it looks like to me is scum asking for tips but idk


The only purpose I can think of is to set out an optimal scum plan and make it public so that town may use it later to see who's acting according to that plan.

That being said, that was a really long post from CreamyButter giving advice to scum, and I have to question why exactly he went to all that trouble to make something that has a high chance of helping scum?


CreamyButter is a new player, so I'm assuming it's just meant to get him talking more, especially as he was showing trepidation about meeting the posting requirements.

The "He wrote something potentially helpful for scum, thus he is scum" accusation isn't very good, and is more of a null-tell in my eyes.

If he's scum, and it's really what they're doing, he would just write it in private, rather than share it for the whole thread to see. If he's town, then he's writing it just as a way of expressing his thoughts in public.

Brain-storming about scum strategy doesn't make you scummy, in my opinion. It also doesn't do a ton to contribute to town. Thus, it's a null-tell.
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