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On November 28 2011 20:31 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +Syllogism was out for his morning run when he stopped to tie his laces. He ran in marathons, and so each day he followed the same routine of waking up in the morning, putting on his tracksuit and going for a half-hour long run through the forest behind his house. Today was no different. Often, the trail he used was completely empty of other people, and so he was surprised when he finished tying his shoes to look up and see a man in a black trench-coat standing off to the side of the trail ahead of him. He was even more surprised when the man lifted a rifle and put two bullets into his chest. "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference." - Zeks's profile linkySyllogism running in woods obviously points to the forest, which can mean a number of people. However, the fact the clue mentions that the trail is usually completely empty, which directly corresponds with the fact that Zeks mentions taking the "less traveled by" road, leads me to believe this is our most obvious clue for today. Not to mention, this is good in mulitple ways. If any of the DTs decided to follow through with the plan, they will be able to deduce something about their sanity through killing Zeks. He was on the DT check list. As I mentioned during the night, after realizing he wasn't new Zeks is a complete null-read, which means he hasn't posted enough content to analyse. Seeing as he has not posted at all since making up his mind during the mayor elections, I am going to be voting for him today. ##Vote Zeks
On November 29 2011 02:04 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +Did you not lynch ym because he opposed you in your own words? You had nothing on him for being Scum. Incorrect. I lynched him for opposing me in a way that doesn't make sense as town. It's not the fact he did oppose me, it's how he opposed me. I'm not going to explain it again, but refer to our conversation this night. Ace: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12489903
Palmar: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12490059
Ace: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12490228
Palmar: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12490592
Ace: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12491093
Show nested quote +Didn't you call for medics to protect me and then turn around and say I needed to be lynched when nothing I have done has proven to be scummy? During the night, I wanted you alive for the possibility of you being town, and me being able to convince you I am town too. I know now, that will not be happening, so I am very much in favor of people killing you. My logic is quite simple. "If Ace is town, and I respond to him clearly and confidently, he will realize he's wrong about me, re-evaluate and be very useful for town". I don't think there is a contradiction here, only the logical way of proceeding. Show nested quote +How convenient isn't it? A clue, the worst thing about this game because it's an absolute red herring mechanic that aids Scum more than it aids Town,"points to zeks". Let's ignore the subjective nature of clues for a second.
IF ANY DT decided to follow the plan. IF. Meaning YOU DONT KNOW if they did. No DT is going to come out and admit whether they did or did not at the current time. But killing zeks is supposed to help them?
Not only would the Detectives have had to follow the list, but they would have to have correctly picked zeks out to get off their first investigation. And even if that worked, they'd still need a second investigation to clear themselves of sane/insane or paranoid/naive. First of all, I'm leaning town on sandroba now, especially after syllogism flipped. This means I put more value into any case presented by sandroba. He did ask me during the night about Zeks, to which I responded newbie town after skimming very fast over the Zeks's posts. When sandroba pointed out he wasn't a newbie, I re-classified him as null read. I don't lynch null reads.
I don't lynch solely on clues.
I don't lynch lurkers for lurking.But when someone does nothing to look town, has clues pointing against him, and just disappears off the face of the earth for the entire night, I think I have a reason to vote for him. When you combine three reasons who might not be individually be enough to lynch someone, About the detectives. Again, clearing half the sanities off the table in one go is helpful for any DT. And yes, because of framers we intentionally kept the list vague. It's only a tool, not a solution. Are you really saying I'm a scum because a plan I offered is not going to solve the game, only help slightly? Show nested quote +You aren't acting in the best interests of the Town, you are acting in the best interest of yourself. You are Scum Nope sir, that'd be you.
Your little betting thing actually makes you look worse. You knew it would never be allowed, and you knew you probably weren't going to be modkilled for it. So, in the end, I am going to be the one looking bad for it. I actually think not modkilling you is straight up cheating against me. But the difference between us is that I didn't feel the need to bring in outside resources to help me win the game. You're not this dumb. You know you're breaking the rules, you've played for many years and this OP has been used for a good stint of that time. You're leveraging your position as a player who commands enough respect to not be modkilled for even a serious offense like this, and you know it. Just like you know I'm town.
Read the bolded. He makes some retarded justification after to get around the "i dont do this" but seriously. Zeks IS NEVER ACTIVE AS TOWN OR RED. He only posts when he has to. Saying someone is red for not posting? that fits half the fucking players.
He outright lied and bs'd an excuse. If you guys won't realize this then when he shits over you later and you go "wow we were dumb" you will understand the feelings of those who called it early.
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On November 30 2011 06:08 Risen wrote:EBWOP: Oh shit on my life. This is what they invented preview for. Fuck it I can't figure it out so I'm going to just quote his whole first part, sorry if the spoilers make things confusing. Next up is vaderseven. He isn't lurking so that's nice, and I'll be able to justify a lot more. Good lynch target for tomorrow imo. Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 21:08 vaderseven wrote:
You choose good ones for me to read at least. They weren't lurkers or people that leave me asking am I sure the mod said no jesters.
prplhz-
I find his campaign scummy more so not. I would say if 50% was undecided and 0% was scum I have him at around a 45-47.5% right now. He is extremely interested in directing the game. This is alarming to me this early on because one usually is not wanting to take that level of direction and order giving unless they have information. At this point in the game, the only ones with 0 information are the town players.
Things like:
[quote=prplhz]As mayor I will encourage everybody to stick to these guidelines. They are all good for town. I will also enforce the following policies
and
[quote=prplhz]I might not the best scum hunter here, but I can see a bad lynch on a newbie townie from miles/kilometers away and I will do everything I can to prevent those from happening. to me sound like things that would be more likely to come out of a player that knows something about who is which side combined with a desire to use that information to direct the town in ways that will help whatever side he is on. I would also go on to say that he never hints at a desire for input from more sources on the things that he is pushing. Compare it to the next guy Erandorr and this will be easier to understand. Sadly at this time there is no way that the town can have info like that so I see his entire approach to have a almost subliminal scum vibe to it. Erandorr-If I rated this guy on that same percent scale he would be right at 52.5-55%. I think he is more likely to be town than scum. His tone that I am keying in on that makes me say this can be seen in things like: [quote=Erandorr]All right. First of, about the election : I will be voting for Palmar. He pushed a very solid campaign from the start and put a lot of effort in it. The effort part is actually important when trying to figure out his alignment. He kept activity high, engaged the new players in the conversation and discussed basicly every topic that got brought up. Thats more pro town than I have ever seen him play Erandorr goes completely back on what he pushed in his campaign post by completely endorsing someone else that he finds to be good and active. I know he says he is pro town but if you read the sentence, " He kept activity high, engaged the new players in the conversation and discussed basically every topic that got brought up," you can sense that he got a warm glowly feeling by seeing a player he respects as 'good at mafia' being active and informative. I would conclude that Erandorr knows very little about who is who and is almost re-leaved to see an active good player to follow. I don't see this as trully strong or weak town play just kinda noisy that doesn't accomplish much except through out an endorsement to an established player that is showing interest in the game. Nothing about those motivations really fit with a scummy mind set and I cant see or conclude that Erandorr is thinking any differently. He puts in some additional scum hunting after this that I can't really get a read on because it is a bit hard to keep all the players in my head in a organized web at this moment. Youngminii- lol this guy is mad about losing to a specific player in the past. Classic case of it. If that isn't the case then god damn it really looks like it and wtf are you sure he isn't mad. He is either bad town or is a semi new scum and Palmer is on his scum team and this is the most epic fail of a bus I have ever seen. I don't have a formed opinion on this guy yet but he is now *'ed in my notes because I need to pay attention to his play to see wtf is going on. That is all of course without really having taken ANY time to re read past games and I can tell these 3 have played here before. I will honestly avoid doing that level of thinking (the player style metagame thinking) until the game has shrunk a bit. If any wants to metagame me go ahead and check out my more recent games at http://forum.solidstatesquad.com/index.php?s=527f9d44f5a52f2e8a60befc4e1af5b5&showforum=27On November 26 2011 19:22 sandroba wrote:
@vaderseven so you rather throw away your vote and make yourself irrelevant. How exactly does that increases your chance of electing a town mayor if you are town? I do not see a likely candidate that I feel is a truly pro town choice at this game state so my mind is basically blank as to how to elect something. Until a more creative / higher chance to help town solution arises to my game theory image of this moment I can only go on and vote for what I know. I don't see this as irrelevant as much as a game design choice that doesn't have a favorable approach to as town side so I am just fulfilling the requirements to vote so as to not get myself mod killed. I assure you, I value my vote very much and am placing it where I feel is truly best in an abstract and logical sense. Good night thread. His vote for mayor was meaningless. This is scum behavior. He doesn't have to commit to anyone, and nothing can be pinned on him. He gets to stay neutral, which is what all mafia players should try to do. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 01:26 vaderseven wrote:On November 26 2011 22:14 sandroba wrote:
@vaderseven I partially read day 1 of one of your games ass town on another forum. On that game you had no problem pushing for info day 1 and making an "educated guess" as you yourself sugested to try and hit scum. What makes this game any different that you choose to abstain? Ok which game? Depending on the game and who I pushed for I could offer you pages of unspoken information that back what I was doing. You see, on that forum I have literally played with at least 90% of the players in a given game many times before. The amount of metagame that gets built up in a smaller community like that is beyond huge. As it is right now I personally would vote to lynch Palmer based on what I have read but since I can't vote to lynch I am instead required to vote for someone to be mayor and to choose the lynch... I do not see a correct logical move in front of me that is beyond don't let the mod kill rules apply to you because of your lack of logical grasp. On November 26 2011 21:32 prplhz wrote:
You rated people 52 on a scale from 0 to 100 where 50 is "No fucking clue", and then you wrote a huge post explaining a concept that has already been explained several times thus far. Jesus christ, are you trying to say that you're not reading the thread at all and that you have nothing to add or what? This is useless, and not in the sinani206 way where you try to contribute but do it in a terrible way, you're trying not to contribute and you're doing it in a carefully constructed way. There is absolutely nothing in mafia called a terrible contribution just because it has been said before. I was not here (holidays) till last night. I started on page 73 and read the filtered posts of the vote leaders. I then posted and someone asked me to talk about 3 specific people so I gave all my thoughts on them. I think you don't like what I had to say because it was partially about you and you are therefor doing a classic defense of, "You said what about me???? You are bad at mafia and the only thing that post does is make you scummy!" The reason I included those numbers was to express how unsure I am. With that out of the way I mass dumped my notes on the players I was requested to look into. If I had a history with the players I was talking about that post would look totally different but as it is that is what I can gather when looking at these 3 specific players that I have never played with in an 80 person game on day 1. To be clear, I would TOTALLY vote Palmer right now if my vote was to lynch him. A 2-5% feeling that a player is more likely to be scum than the rest is actually a huge amount of certainty on a day 1. I thought and assumed that was beyond basic info. I can't agree with his lynch Palmar argument here. There are other ways to lynch someone than just a 2-5% feeling. Prplz has a good point here, in spite of my thinking he's mafia. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:12 vaderseven wrote:On November 27 2011 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts so far.
Mafia
Palmar
-Way too many people announcing their vote for him, with the official vote tag and everything. Claiming they love his plan, even though there REALLY wasn't any plan Palmar offered to begin with. Typical propaganda by the mafia.
-Most of his campaign relies on him proclaiming he is good as town, and bad as mafia.
-Already started working on his "people with ability to veto" list to veto people ending up on the suspect list. That includes himself. lol wut? Note that he wants 3 veto votes to prevent a person to be on the suspect list for DTs. That means there are at least 3 mafia members on that list Palmar proposed.
-Slightly suspicious about his adamant urge to kill YM. YM merely
WBG
-I'm not a fan of his DT plan. Unless prevented by an ability, mafia will get a kill every night. Meanwhile, the town's lynches are semi-blind and can be manipulated by the mafia. We are meant to follow a list, which itself can be manipulated through propaganda, waste our player resources (forced kills), and waste our vigilante shots all to slightly help out our detective(s) to figure out their sanity, the attempts of which can be all for naught by GF, Millers, and framers. If mafia gets a slightly favorable population ratio within the first few days, the game is over. No thanks. I'd rather have our DTs work independently, even if it is a gamble on them being competent.
-His claim that sandroba is mafia hangs entirely on his first lynch target, sinani206. Though I admit questionable, he puts way too much weight on that point alone.
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
Town
sandroba
-Is against WBG's plan, with which I agree with; it is far too prone to manipulation and errors by DTs.
Can't Quite Tell
syllogism
GreYMisT
prplhz I think this guy is a good bet to be scum. Look at how detailed his cases are on the players he thinks are scum, and then look at his case for sandro being town. There's a huge sense of disconnect here between the amount of effort he put in to calling myself, Palmar, and BC scum and the amount of effort he put into calling sandro town. He also lists 3 null reads at the end for no particular reason. Why those 3, in particular? I was JUST about to make a very similar post. I agree with this. Uses someone I feel is town to justify his feelings instead of making a post articulating them himself. Keeps himself neutral, good scum move, and wouldn't sway me in either direction except for the fact that I think he's scum and just stalling. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:15 vaderseven wrote:On November 27 2011 09:19 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 09:12 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 09:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 09:06 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 08:54 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 08:44 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts so far.
Mafia
Palmar
-Way too many people announcing their vote for him, with the official vote tag and everything. Claiming they love his plan, even though there REALLY wasn't any plan Palmar offered to begin with. Typical propaganda by the mafia.
-Most of his campaign relies on him proclaiming he is good as town, and bad as mafia.
-Already started working on his "people with ability to veto" list to veto people ending up on the suspect list. That includes himself. lol wut? Note that he wants 3 veto votes to prevent a person to be on the suspect list for DTs. That means there are at least 3 mafia members on that list Palmar proposed.
-Slightly suspicious about his adamant urge to kill YM. YM merely
WBG
-I'm not a fan of his DT plan. Unless prevented by an ability, mafia will get a kill every night. Meanwhile, the town's lynches are semi-blind and can be manipulated by the mafia. We are meant to follow a list, which itself can be manipulated through propaganda, waste our player resources (forced kills), and waste our vigilante shots all to slightly help out our detective(s) to figure out their sanity, the attempts of which can be all for naught by GF, Millers, and framers. If mafia gets a slightly favorable population ratio within the first few days, the game is over. No thanks. I'd rather have our DTs work independently, even if it is a gamble on them being competent.
-His claim that sandroba is mafia hangs entirely on his first lynch target, sinani206. Though I admit questionable, he puts way too much weight on that point alone.
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
Town
sandroba
-Is against WBG's plan, with which I agree with; it is far too prone to manipulation and errors by DTs.
Can't Quite Tell
syllogism
GreYMisT
prplhz I think this guy is a good bet to be scum. Look at how detailed his cases are on the players he thinks are scum, and then look at his case for sandro being town. There's a huge sense of disconnect here between the amount of effort he put in to calling myself, Palmar, and BC scum and the amount of effort he put into calling sandro town. He also lists 3 null reads at the end for no particular reason. Why those 3, in particular? prpl I thought was scum, syllo I think is also likely to be scum. GreYMisT could be anything at this point. It's perhaps not so strange he picked syllo, since he focused on syllo+sandro and me+Palmar+BC, but it is indeed strange he chose to comment on GreYMisT and prpl. Well GreYMisT and prplz are/were in the election campaign. Duh...... Syllo I found often to be there with Sandro, but did not quite have enough to say at the time. I was busy in the last 24 hours; just finished reading like 35 pages, I'll dump more posts as time moves. Sandro: I happened to agree with his criticisms of your strategy. Not much to say. Would you call me scum right off the bat if I did the opposite; if I had one liners about you and Palmar and an essay about Sandro? This is a legitimate question, answer it. Yes, actually. I generally am critical of players who make contradictions in their play. If a player is hypocritical or makes logical contradictions, then I generally hone in on them and tunnel and pressure them repeatedly. If someone says things that show discrepancies or inordinate bias toward one side of an issue they are not involved in, then I also am suspicious, because I then wonder if they have a non-town agenda. If a player is not directly involved in an issue (such as this DT palmar/BC/me and syllo/sandro business) then I expect the amount of effort put into analyzing both sides to be roughly equal. If it isn't, then there is likely to be something hidden going on. It is advantageous for town to identify mafia as soon as possible and to provide large amounts of argument to accuse a player of being scum. It is advantageous for mafia to falsely accuse a townie of being mafia and to provide large amounts of argument for it to alleviate suspicion off of actual mafia members and to waste lynches. Sandro isn't being lynched after breakfast; I'm not in a particular rush to convince everyone he isn't scum. However, I do not believe he is mafia based on his argument against your DT policy. So it actually turns out that the paragraph under your name has relation to Sandro's case. So you just admitted that what you posted about scum could be taken from both alignment perspectives. Thank you, you pretty much just proved my point for me. What? You agreed that what I said could be interpreted as mafia or town equally. Then you said that just proved I'm scum. Excellent logic. You are rather desperate to have me out of the picture, are you not? Am I a threat to your scum campaign? Let me clarify. My logic has to do with how scum operate. They want to be unreadable. So, the entire focus of your post was on your scumreads, with literally no effort put in to convincing anyone that sandro is town. You also strangely included three other players, two of which you say are included because they are mayoral candidates. Yet, you don't talk about other mayoral candidates, such as sinani, annul, Erandorr, or kitaman. You could've easily said you were null on all of these (each with a campaign about as strong as GreYMisT's or prpl's) and I probably would believe you that you were mentioning those players based on their campaigns. But, you didn't. Now, if you look at only your scumreads, and omit the rest of your post, we see that your post can be made from either alignment. That's point number 1. If you instead eliminate only the first half, and include the town/null, you again can probably make that post from either alignment, but it's more likely to be a scum-aligned post because of the total lack of effort. This is point #2. Put them together, and the disconnect makes sense far more from a scum perspective than a town one. Scum are completely fine with destroying the credibility of town players. Early in the game, when there are so many of them, they are also fine in supporting certain players who are furthering their agenda; either townies they think will help them achieve their wincon, or their scumbuddies. Wow finally another player that searches for the people that have hidden information. This is how you scum hunt. I, again, agree with your conclusions. Would like to see this guy flip. Wowza, you really don't like Hier! You have a lot of logical conclusions that you share with WBG. Very town-like. Maybe you ARE town. You continue with a LOT of posts hating on Hier or one-liner filler posts. Then come a lot of posts that are absolutely useless relating to power role usage. You give an opinion that appears pro-town, like this... Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 03:32 vaderseven wrote:
It would be a trade off cept roles get used every night. Once our power roles follow peoples directions even once then we have set an easy way for the mafia to predict things from then on.
Saying that having a list is easier for a new player is just scummy as hell. New players, if you don't know who to use your power on, find a Random Number Gen online and use it to pick from the player list.
That advice has the same chance of finding scum and it has 0% chance to be abused by the mafia.
The only way to get a better chance of finding scum while still have 0% chance to be abused by the mafia is for the power roles to ACT ON INFORMATION OR HUNCHES THAT THEY COME UP WITH.
You guys that are saying hey check THIS GUY or THAT GUY are suggesting the method that has the highest rate of being abused by the mafia. But really that's just a bunch of useless fluff. Don't listen to direction power roles, don't listen to any analysis, that's pro-mafia. What? Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 04:43 vaderseven wrote:On November 28 2011 04:29 xtfftc wrote:For an active player that keeps notes there is disadvantages to posting deep analysis during the night vs the day. What disadvantages? Examples, please. The only 'decisions' to be made during the night are power role and mafia kills. During the day there is the lynch. Nothing about the town's purposes are furthered by having good posts during the night instead of day minus the case of a player being silenced by a night kill that has something important to say. At least this talk we are having is productive, it doen't really help anyone choose targets (mafia or power roles) and helps to futher the town's chances because we are talking abstract strats. That is good night posting. Bad night posting is a list of people for power roles to focus or a large mega post looking in depth at one player. Save those megaposts for when discussion leads to a lynch instead of night actions. The only reason to post huge things at night is if you for some reason won't do so during the day. I disagree and feel like you should post analysis or your thoughts whenever they come up. If you're town then there is a chance you're going to be shot, ESPECIALLY since you've been active. You need to get your thoughts out there before you get killed. Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 06:36 vaderseven wrote:
Every doctor, cop, roleblocker, and nightkiller should target me. No, they really shouldn't. Why are you trying to pull all powers onto yourself? Unless this is the kind of WIFOM you've been trying to represent. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:14 vaderseven wrote:
Well my life has decided to spit at me as I had no web at home last night. I hate quest. Anyways, I am VERY GLAD that Ace was mod killed. I PM'd the mods and had made it clear that I would probably quit if he wasn't MK'd for the same reasons that I would quit any online team game where one of my allies siad near the start, "Hey its ok I can see where they are with my maphack." The particular rule that Ace broke is actually one of the most game breaking in some ways. For instance, in my notes after I read that I just typed, "Confirmed Cheater and Confirmed Town." I have never once in years of playing mafia seen someone pull that stunt and not be truthful. The only other type of cheating tactic that I have seen be as effective at breaking the game is posting your role after encrypting it via an online cypher and then revealing the key later (btw if anyone does this they have no honor, its not in the rules of this game but it is in the unspoken rules of internet mafia not to do this). I am here to play some mafia. I am not here to sit through a nice ez mode game.
Now I brought my notes to work and got here an hour early. Here is my thoughts on some key issues thus far:
Palmer-I didn't know you got 3 votes per day till just now. That is huge. That is more important than your double lynches in some ways because it can really give the town an end game advantage. If you die and you are town then the mafia has gotten such a large boost. I don't agree with all of your points thus far but learning that you have 3 votes per day was enough for me to not vote you today... but we need to do something about you soon. If you are scum then you will gain a huge amount of control once the double lynches are used up.
I read your campaign as a power grab for reasons of personal desire. I can't really say that is a scum or town tell. Alot of people are saying it is a scum tell. Alot of people are mad about your choice of day 1 lynch... The only things we really discussed day 1 was who to elect and then right towards the end of things there was a brief discussion about who to have killed. I usually give people a pass on their day 1 votes until such time as some kind of pattern is found (day 1 votes are never enough by themselves in other words) because it is the vote that is based off the smallest amount of information in the game. You choosing YT feels no different to me. I might be biased because I thought YT wasn't even a bad choice but even if you had chosen someone I felt was pretty townie I wouldn't find that to be very conclusive. I do appreciate that you did choose someone and try to justify it. The easy way out for a mafia player in that situation would be to hold some kind of last minute vote (Hey guys post who you want me to kill in thread, we have 45 minutes left Ill choose whoever you say) or to do something like RNG it. What you did was a real move that we get to look at and question. I much prefer that especially given the power of your office.
I really think it is overall a bad move to lynch Palmer at this point. 3 Votes in the end game and double lynches in the early game is just WAY to much power to give up. It might even be game breaking, whichever side you are on Palmer might be given the win. Assuming that either side CAN win the election, the setup should be balanced WIHTOUT a mayor. That means the mayor's power is outside of balance and as I have already said it is a VERY powerful role.
Zeks-I haven't really played with clues before. It feels like to solid of logic to ignore right now, especially given the early game nature of the game right now and thus lack of good info. I want to see your flip in order to better understand if we are using the clues correctly or overly trusting in them. The fact that I don't really see your posts as helpful or insightful as of yet helps me to feel safe in this. I hate that I am voting based on ANYTHING besides scum hunting but ya.
Could you possibly go ahead and claim/post some more? I would love to see your thoughts on as many players as possible and if ARE town and a power role I would like to know. I don't see you living past today, if it turns out to look like you WILL live then go ahead and hold off. I would just like your thoughts/claim before you flip so that I can look at the info you put out in light of said flip.
Heir-
I did not like you day 1 and I still don't really like your play today. I feel like one of the clue's points to you very strongly (Blind in your profile and Blindfold clue). If Zeks flips scum I will be really interested in looking at your posts under a microscope. As it is, I feel stronger about you flipping scum than I do Zeks when i look at you two without the clues in mind. I feel like your tone day 1 was one of that of one that knew way more about who is what alignment than I did and that just bothers the fuck out of my mind. You are getting my vote and I would HIGHLY encourage alot of these lurk then post style players to consider switching from Palmer to you.
Kurumi-
Saying that annul is confirmed town was dumb as hell. I will be looking at you closer from now on. That post where you said that screamed to me SCUM GAMBIT TO THROUGH TOWN OFF. The only saving grace for you (and it really is a good saving grace as I have learned over the years) is that I can see you just being dumb. Dumb things get posted by bad town players. I personally find you more dumb than scummy for now but I you are getting looked at again for sure.
##vote: Zeks
##vote: Heir
That is the longest post I have ever done via a phone wow. To start, you're HAPPY that we lost a townie? Ok you must be a hard-liner for the rules. I can get behind that, you're a man of principle who has never made a joke in your life. Beyond that, though. Holy shit that's a lot of writing! Guess who's name doesn't pop up ONCE in it. Mine. The people you vote for do, though. You have posted 0 analysis on me up to this point, and you seem to be sticking to your hate of Hier. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 02:09 vaderseven wrote:
Can we get vote count? Risen and Palmer are super close...
I will and can change my vote on heir to risen simply to keep Palmer alive if it comes to that. Boom! Suddenly you see a lot of votes on me and go, oh shit I have a chance to swap over to Risen without having to do any analysis! I can just claim I'm saving Palmar! And here we have the swap itself without any justification. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 03:38 vaderseven wrote:On November 30 2011 03:32 Risen wrote:
Swapping my vote over to Palmar from xtfftc because even though I feel Palmar isn't as large a threat as xtfftc, I'd rather see him get voted out than me. With all these idiots jumping on to lynch me I can't help but think I have somehow becaome a "lynch this guy and no one will suspect you're mafia" target. People who vote for me can always fall back on OMGUS and say OH WELL HE MADE A CLEAR SCUMSLIP, when in fact there was nothing of the sort. Any person reading at a 5th grade level knows this.
Again, ALL YOU SCUM VOTING FOR ME POST YOUR EXPLANATIONS. That's a hugely scummy reason to vote for the player who if town can help us more than anyone. I find you way more scummy after that post than anything else of yours that I read. Wait, so swapping my vote to someone I feel is the most scummy of my options is scum behavior? Asking for explanations as to why people are voting for me is scum behavior? I don't think it is. Having given this analysis, I don't think vaderseven is a lynch target right now. Maybe tomorrow depending on what happens tonight. If he isn't shot, then that makes me think he's scum even more, because thus far he's been posting quite a bit which should make him a large mafia target since there are SO MANY LURKERS in this game. Any non-mafia opinion posted in the thread is bad for mafia, so by getting rid of the few active posters there are, mafia can easily take this. Hope this made it out before you had to go to your meeting.
This post smells like this.
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Whats the case on prplhz?
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BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz?
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On November 30 2011 06:41 Palmar wrote:
By the way, food for thought.
Wherebugsgo is the best scum player in this game (after Ace got himself modkilled), and apparently people consider my scumplay awesome. (Awesome enough for people to blindly oppose my mayor campaign out of fear)
The notion we're scum together is absurd, no scum team would sacrifice two such important members of their team in tying themselves together since day 1.
WWWWWIFOM
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On November 30 2011 10:24 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 06:41 Palmar wrote:
By the way, food for thought.
Wherebugsgo is the best scum player in this game (after Ace got himself modkilled), and apparently people consider my scumplay awesome. (Awesome enough for people to blindly oppose my mayor campaign out of fear)
The notion we're scum together is absurd, no scum team would sacrifice two such important members of their team in tying themselves together since day 1. WWWWWIFOM
you definatly aren't reading the thread, haha.
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I don't believe anyone made a dedicated case on prpl.
Mostly it's based on his really bad day 1 mayoral campaign, his misleading statement that he can tell the difference between bad townies and scum, his method of posting, his activity levels, and his meta.
Like, I just got off playing two games with prpl, and he was improving drastically. He played very well as town the last game I played with him, and in this game he's just not making sense. His meta doesn't seem to fit.
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On November 30 2011 10:24 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 06:41 Palmar wrote:
By the way, food for thought.
Wherebugsgo is the best scum player in this game (after Ace got himself modkilled), and apparently people consider my scumplay awesome. (Awesome enough for people to blindly oppose my mayor campaign out of fear)
The notion we're scum together is absurd, no scum team would sacrifice two such important members of their team in tying themselves together since day 1. WWWWWIFOM
Can someone explain to me what this WIFOM and OMGUS stuff means :S?
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On November 30 2011 10:16 vaderseven wrote:
Ok BC I want to know one thing I think that is is like a ephinnay of why you kinda bother the back of my mind.
Why has it been a constant YOU OR PALMER thing.
Palmer, if town, has a role that is SO good for town that it is game winning (3 votes). You cant gain that even if he is lynched. Why then with the like attempts at chain lynch (ace flipped town so now palmer is scum) and why the tone of your current posts?
Who the fuck cares about a role someone has? You are using the same argument people used in Pick your power games. Role does not equal alignment. If someone is red you lynch them. In a game where mafia could theoretically have almost the same roles as town and in a setup where the player you are currently referring to cannot be rolechecked or dt checked you lynch off behavioural analysis. Clues will never point to him until they have to.
As for my tone? I am annoyed. This is pick your power 3 all over again where i shat all over the mafia and serial killers and fingered out every fucking one of them. You know what happened that game? Town attempted to shoot me twice, and i was almost lynched. THE ENTIRE mafia team tried to get my lynched that game. That is the threat you are currently seeing. WBG, Annul, Palmar are just a few of the people trying to off me. I currently am the only player pushing controversial topics. Every other lynch is easy. It gives near nothing on the people who voted for them other than "mafia are prob voting for this person". Use your heads, why would so many people who hadn't even touched me instantly jump out with "bc is scum" off one giant post? A town member would try to convince me he was town and then do something useful. Instead a ton of people try to divert lynch to clue targets or instantly jump at me while excluding everyone. I provided solid analysis on two players this cycle. They are the two scummiest people to me based off actions thus far.
Use your heads.
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On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz?
Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz.
My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay.
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On November 30 2011 10:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:16 vaderseven wrote:
Ok BC I want to know one thing I think that is is like a ephinnay of why you kinda bother the back of my mind.
Why has it been a constant YOU OR PALMER thing.
Palmer, if town, has a role that is SO good for town that it is game winning (3 votes). You cant gain that even if he is lynched. Why then with the like attempts at chain lynch (ace flipped town so now palmer is scum) and why the tone of your current posts?
Who the fuck cares about a role someone has? You are using the same argument people used in Pick your power games. Role does not equal alignment. If someone is red you lynch them. In a game where mafia could theoretically have almost the same roles as town and in a setup where the player you are currently referring to cannot be rolechecked or dt checked you lynch off behavioural analysis. Clues will never point to him until they have to. As for my tone? I am annoyed. This is pick your power 3 all over again where i shat all over the mafia and serial killers and fingered out every fucking one of them. You know what happened that game? Town attempted to shoot me twice, and i was almost lynched. THE ENTIRE mafia team tried to get my lynched that game. That is the threat you are currently seeing. WBG, Annul, Palmar are just a few of the people trying to off me. I currently am the only player pushing controversial topics. Every other lynch is easy. It gives near nothing on the people who voted for them other than "mafia are prob voting for this person". Use your heads, why would so many people who hadn't even touched me instantly jump out with "bc is scum" off one giant post? A town member would try to convince me he was town and then do something useful. Instead a ton of people try to divert lynch to clue targets or instantly jump at me while excluding everyone. I provided solid analysis on two players this cycle. They are the two scummiest people to me based off actions thus far. Use your heads.
LOL
YOU are an easy lynch?
rofl wtf is this
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On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay.
READ my last like 10 posts or so and find out there is a huge reason to vote zeks beyond clues. He soft claimed miller and asked if people investigated him then claims vigi later on.
I really wouldnt have a problem with you BC if you didnt like tunnel in on palmer for 90% of this game. Most of you posts are about how he is scum and I just buy 0% of what you are saying. I didn't like Palmer's campaign at first but I hated every campaign...
There is just something not right about you and no matter where I look I cant get the info I need to pinpoint it beacuse all you do is say the town is dumb and palmer is dumb.
Wait.
Thats what I have a problem with.
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On November 30 2011 10:28 Benjef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:24 sinani206 wrote:On November 30 2011 06:41 Palmar wrote:
By the way, food for thought.
Wherebugsgo is the best scum player in this game (after Ace got himself modkilled), and apparently people consider my scumplay awesome. (Awesome enough for people to blindly oppose my mayor campaign out of fear)
The notion we're scum together is absurd, no scum team would sacrifice two such important members of their team in tying themselves together since day 1. WWWWWIFOM Can someone explain to me what this WIFOM and OMGUS stuff means :S?
WIFOM = Wine in front of me (a player doing the oppisit of what is expected because the enemy is countering what they expect)
OMGUS = OH MY GOD YOU SUCK (someone votes you so you vote them back)
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BC if you are actually town you seriously only have 3 scumreads?
Palmar, annul, and myself?
Really?
So you think the remaining 13 scum are just sitting on their asses and everyone else in the thread is a derp townie?
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On November 30 2011 10:26 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:24 sinani206 wrote:On November 30 2011 06:41 Palmar wrote:
By the way, food for thought.
Wherebugsgo is the best scum player in this game (after Ace got himself modkilled), and apparently people consider my scumplay awesome. (Awesome enough for people to blindly oppose my mayor campaign out of fear)
The notion we're scum together is absurd, no scum team would sacrifice two such important members of their team in tying themselves together since day 1. WWWWWIFOM you definatly aren't reading the thread, haha.
lol like 10 seconds after i posted this the whole next page was about it and i was like oh shit im gonna get called out
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On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay.
I agree that prp is a bad lynch at the moment. But i dont agree with lyching both WBG and Palmar. WBG is playing like he normally plays town, and the fact that he seems close to palmar doesnt really change that.
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On November 30 2011 10:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
BC if you are actually town you seriously only have 3 scumreads?
Palmar, annul, and myself?
Really?
So you think the remaining 13 scum are just sitting on their asses and everyone else in the thread is a derp townie?
Eww I just realized that is all he has said is scummy really.
I find annul to be pretty green to my eye and Palmar hasn't done anything that strikes me as scummy.
BC somehow seems to tunnel in on things that I just don't see as really significant at all.
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On November 30 2011 10:12 wherebugsgo wrote:I started the case on BC. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=163#3257Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I wonder, how is it that the moment I say I leave the thread that 3 people jump out and instantly try to rape my nuts. They spread fear. I have read the thread and now will have to choose posts one by one to respond to but let me ask you one thing.
Who here is fear mongering players? WBG and Palmar fear monger everyone. They can speculate what they would do as mafia in my position and say that that is what I am doing however none of them actually know what I would or wouldn't do. However think of this game as just this game, and the actions done within it. I'm not fear mongering shit. Want to show how I am? Go for it. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My posts actually give you a read on myself. You will either say I am scum or Town. Let me ask you these questions however. Who has called people out for attempting to manipulate people. Who tried to create plans to unite the town/give discussions that force people to give up information on their alignment. Who has attempted to stop people from making terrible choices.
Now go back and look through the people who have flip flopped positions, tried to mislead people, inspired fear into the town, out and out lie in general and get away with it. If you honestly believe that I fit the second bill, kill me for I will have no hope of convincing you of anything. BC you obviously do none of these things as scum. However, if you are town, why have your only decent pushes for scum been annul, Palmar and supersoft? There are 16 scum in this game. You avoided mentioning who your day 1 lynch would've been for the longest time. Your case on Palmar was terrible. So was your case on supersoft, actually. Supersoft is acting somewhat strangely this game, but he isn't as sure scum as you paint him to be. Why is it that whenever someone asks you for scumreads it's never very clear who you suspect? Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now, for the next person who says "didn't BC say he wouldn't double lynch?" You will be lynched. I said I would never have double lynched day 2, it is clearly anti town and a waste of the ability. We do not lynch for information, we do not lynch off shoddy clues. We do not lynch someone when the mayor says " i wont lynch null reads or off pure clues" then proceeds to push a target that meet those conditions. Sure, I agree with you here. In fact, I agreed with you yesterday! But why would you ignore the evidence that existed for why Palmar chose the double lynch? The majority of town, as stupid as they might be, wanted a double lynch today. Palmar was convinced by the arguments that were given to him. Do I agree with whether or not we should have double lynch today? Obviously not, I think we should have a double lynch on day 3 and afterward. However, Palmar activating double lynch for day 2 does not make him scum. It just means that he is willing to listen to the people who decided to vote him into office yesterday.He changed his opinion, sure, but that's not a scumtell either. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Today palmar or myself has to die. I will not stop pushing him until he dies, he will not stop trying to discredit/kill me until I die. What's with this bullshit false dichotomy? You say you are posting with logic but you blatantly use a black and white logical fallacy right here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThis isn't logic. THIS is propaganda, and THIS is fear mongering. You are doing it yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaI will start answering individual posts as I go but if I die at least I die knowing all of the mafia vets showed their faces to get me offed.
Right.[/QUOTE]
About the double lynch. A smart town player who knows damn well that an action is scummy even if mayor does not give up his position. He started his campaign based on his experience and that he was good. A good player who knows a play is bad DOES NOT DO IT if he is town. Period. A bad town needs to be helped by those who know what is good or bad. By cow towing to the "general public" shows that he is willing to do anything to appear town. A solid player does this via their analysis and bringing in reds. I also posted where he lied.
As for black or white dichtonomy? I am stating fact. He is clearly red to me, I will not stop pushing him as a target. Why is that hard to believe? He has already shown he will instantly attack anyone who attacks him. As such we will continue analyzing eachothers every move. This is logical and sound. Stop sayings it propoganda it is simple fact. I am not fear mongering I am stating I will continue to analyze him till he dies or I die. Fear mongering would be "if hes red omg hes going to rape us all if we dont kill him now" I instead promise to do analysis.
You can continue trying to manipulate my posts but you will have a far harder time with me here to defend myself. But I am guessing the hope was I wouldn't come back in time.
As for my clear scumreads? My scumreads are very clear. I have analyzed them. Gut shots are not solid reads, they are gut shots. A read is doing analysis on people like I have on annul and Palmar.
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On November 30 2011 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay. I agree that prp is a bad lynch at the moment. But i dont agree with lyching both WBG and Palmar. WBG is playing like he normally plays town, and the fact that he seems close to palmar doesnt really change that.
I have stated I want annul and Palmar dead? So why are you bringing wbg in as a lynch? -_- WBG is mafia or manipulated townie. Regardless he is not as much of a problem as people as annul or palmar.
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On November 30 2011 10:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay. I agree that prp is a bad lynch at the moment. But i dont agree with lyching both WBG and Palmar. WBG is playing like he normally plays town, and the fact that he seems close to palmar doesnt really change that. I have stated I want annul and Palmar dead? So why are you bringing wbg in as a lynch? -_- WBG is mafia or manipulated townie. Regardless he is not as much of a problem as people as annul or palmar.
ah sorry i thought you were voting WBG -.-
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EPT
