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On November 30 2011 10:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay. I agree that prp is a bad lynch at the moment. But i dont agree with lyching both WBG and Palmar. WBG is playing like he normally plays town, and the fact that he seems close to palmar doesnt really change that. I have stated I want annul and Palmar dead? So why are you bringing wbg in as a lynch? -_- WBG is mafia or manipulated townie. Regardless he is not as much of a problem as people as annul or palmar.
I don't think WBG is being manipulated at all. He is either very good mafia or making his judgements clearly based on what has been posted. Most of the analysis in this thread is probably from or based on what WBG has said/brought up. What you are saying simply is not true.
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OK, thoughts on what has happened in the last 5 or so hours:
1) We should not lynch Palmar or BC today. We need as many power roles as we can get if we want to beat a 16-man scumteam.
2) zeks is going to get lynched no matter what
3) Risen is looking greener by the post, and vaderseven and wbg are looking (even, in the case of wbg) scummier.
4) prplhz is not responding to anything at all relating to his lynch, only posting one-liners.
5) Erandorr's post was fucking amazing
With 1,2,3, and 4 considered, the choice is easy.
##Unvote
##Vote: prplhz
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Soap! Are you ever going to justify this. You have posted ZERO justification for your vote, you are lurking and not allowing people to get a read on you. This is not pro-town behavior.
On November 30 2011 08:42 Soap wrote:I unvoted Hier, not wbg ##Unvote: Ace
##Vote: Risen
Vote in question
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On November 30 2011 10:34 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay. READ my last like 10 posts or so and find out there is a huge reason to vote zeks beyond clues. He soft claimed miller and asked if people investigated him then claims vigi later on. I really wouldnt have a problem with you BC if you didnt like tunnel in on palmer for 90% of this game. Most of you posts are about how he is scum and I just buy 0% of what you are saying. I didn't like Palmer's campaign at first but I hated every campaign... There is just something not right about you and no matter where I look I cant get the info I need to pinpoint it beacuse all you do is say the town is dumb and palmer is dumb. Wait. Thats what I have a problem with.
He claimed a role, not an alignment. He could say he is a town vig but no one would ever believe that, instead he just claimed his role. A mafia in most cases would claim the alignment to garner sympathy. Instead he just says you lynch a vig. He can't ever confirm his alignment to you until dts clear sanity so he chose his role. It is more likely vigi's are town and not red. He did not claim miller -_- he claimed his role in black, or did I missread his entire post?
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I can see what you mean about double lynch day 2 vs 3 BC. I am feeling that hurt right now.
Its prolly the single thing you have posted that I 100% agree with.
After reading your post history though...
again...
I cant really say you are scum more than bad town. Having lynched way more than enough bad town in my life and always regretting it...
I can move back to not knowing who to vote cuz Hier somehow has less votes than almost everyone.
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He soft claimed miller, sec Ill get you the post.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 30 2011 09:33 vaderseven wrote:Ok a good close look at zeks is in order. Having read every profile, I do feel like the clue solely points to him and would love anyone that has read everyprofile to say it doesnt. Beyond that though: Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 08:46 zeks wrote:
Voted Palmar in favour of DT plan and he has been the most active out of all candidates plus provided ample analysis on several players. This is a simple follow the popular guy thing and really advocates following a planed set of power role actions and really bothers me. Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:31 zeks wrote:
Judging from the tone of some of your posts I might've been DT checked last night and returned scum/guilty (I won't say by who)... if so please consider your sanity / or the possibility I'm Miller!
Soft claiming miller as a lie is a huge scum tell in my book this was a key post IMO. It is actually an awful move cuz it makes everyone distrust every result on you. Huge way to hide your alignment... and then you claim... VIGILANTE Man... why soft claim something that can mess with town then be something else. I wondered at the time if you claimed VIGILANTE so you could set up some lie about viging someone and the clue being there because of that but that trap was ruined. Sorry zeks but the softclaim and the clues are damning in my book.
Thats a quote of a post I made like an hour ago that contains teh relevant info.
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On November 30 2011 10:47 vaderseven wrote:
I can see what you mean about double lynch day 2 vs 3 BC. I am feeling that hurt right now.
Its prolly the single thing you have posted that I 100% agree with.
After reading your post history though...
again...
I cant really say you are scum more than bad town. Having lynched way more than enough bad town in my life and always regretting it...
I can move back to not knowing who to vote cuz Hier somehow has less votes than almost everyone.
People are piling onto prplhz instead of people like Hier because Hier is not making as big a target for himself as prplhz
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to be specific as hell he said
Judging from the tone of some of your posts I might've been DT checked last night and returned scum/guilty (I won't say by who)... if so please consider your sanity / or the possibility I'm Miller!
Why would he say that if he knows he nots a miller... because he knows he will still show up as red!
If he is a town vigi he shouldn't be mentioning miller as a possible reason for him to scan red.
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On November 30 2011 10:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:12 wherebugsgo wrote:I started the case on BC. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=163#3257On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I wonder, how is it that the moment I say I leave the thread that 3 people jump out and instantly try to rape my nuts. They spread fear. I have read the thread and now will have to choose posts one by one to respond to but let me ask you one thing.
Who here is fear mongering players? WBG and Palmar fear monger everyone. They can speculate what they would do as mafia in my position and say that that is what I am doing however none of them actually know what I would or wouldn't do. However think of this game as just this game, and the actions done within it. I'm not fear mongering shit. Want to show how I am? Go for it. On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My posts actually give you a read on myself. You will either say I am scum or Town. Let me ask you these questions however. Who has called people out for attempting to manipulate people. Who tried to create plans to unite the town/give discussions that force people to give up information on their alignment. Who has attempted to stop people from making terrible choices.
Now go back and look through the people who have flip flopped positions, tried to mislead people, inspired fear into the town, out and out lie in general and get away with it. If you honestly believe that I fit the second bill, kill me for I will have no hope of convincing you of anything. BC you obviously do none of these things as scum. However, if you are town, why have your only decent pushes for scum been annul, Palmar and supersoft? There are 16 scum in this game. You avoided mentioning who your day 1 lynch would've been for the longest time. Your case on Palmar was terrible. So was your case on supersoft, actually. Supersoft is acting somewhat strangely this game, but he isn't as sure scum as you paint him to be. Why is it that whenever someone asks you for scumreads it's never very clear who you suspect? On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now, for the next person who says "didn't BC say he wouldn't double lynch?" You will be lynched. I said I would never have double lynched day 2, it is clearly anti town and a waste of the ability. We do not lynch for information, we do not lynch off shoddy clues. We do not lynch someone when the mayor says " i wont lynch null reads or off pure clues" then proceeds to push a target that meet those conditions. Sure, I agree with you here. In fact, I agreed with you yesterday! But why would you ignore the evidence that existed for why Palmar chose the double lynch? The majority of town, as stupid as they might be, wanted a double lynch today. Palmar was convinced by the arguments that were given to him. Do I agree with whether or not we should have double lynch today? Obviously not, I think we should have a double lynch on day 3 and afterward. However, Palmar activating double lynch for day 2 does not make him scum. It just means that he is willing to listen to the people who decided to vote him into office yesterday.He changed his opinion, sure, but that's not a scumtell either. On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Today palmar or myself has to die. I will not stop pushing him until he dies, he will not stop trying to discredit/kill me until I die. What's with this bullshit false dichotomy? You say you are posting with logic but you blatantly use a black and white logical fallacy right here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThis isn't logic. THIS is propaganda, and THIS is fear mongering. You are doing it yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaI will start answering individual posts as I go but if I die at least I die knowing all of the mafia vets showed their faces to get me offed. Right.
About the double lynch. A smart town player who knows damn well that an action is scummy even if mayor does not give up his position. He started his campaign based on his experience and that he was good. A good player who knows a play is bad DOES NOT DO IT if he is town. [/quote]
So you're calling syllo and sandro dumb for wanting a double lynch on day 2, despite syllo flipping town?
Look, I understand you didn't support a day 2 double lynch, but if you think Palmar is scum based on him changing his mind because people wanted double lynch (or his death) and convincing him with (in his eyes) decent arguments then you are stretching.
If you consider Palmar to be dumb because he chose day 2 double lynch so be it, but that doesn't make him scum. Syllo was one of the most vocal supporters of a day 2 double lynch and he fucking flipped town.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
A bad town needs to be helped by those who know what is good or bad. By cow towing to the "general public" shows that he is willing to do anything to appear town. A solid player does this via their analysis and bringing in reds. I also posted where he lied.
I agree that a bad town needs to be helped by those who know good from bad.
So then why the hell have you been so passive in trying to change town atmosphere? The town has been a mess ALL day, partly due to Ace. Yet, you didn't strongly oppose Ace despite Ace talking out of his ass for a good 4-5 hours. After Ace got modkilled you didn't oppose the shitty wagons that sprung up on Palmar, Risen, and zeks.
Sure, you half assed an opposition to the wagon on me, but it was as if you didn't actually care about town finding scum. Your case was weak on Palmar and it still is. It's rather weak on annul too, although I probably would've agreed with you on him if his behavior had stayed the same. His behavior has actually been improving and some of what annul has been saying has been making much more sense than it did day 1.
I am still not understanding how Palmar lied. Please reiterate if you actually believe that.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for black or white dichtonomy? I am stating fact. He is clearly red to me, I will not stop pushing him as a target. Why is that hard to believe?
Because you are not infallible.
You of all people should know that it's futile to try and connect the alignments of players before they flip. For all we know you could both be town. However, by making it a "me vs Palmar" issue you're throwing logic out the window and just making it a false black and white issue.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
He has already shown he will instantly attack anyone who attacks him. As such we will continue analyzing eachothers every move. This is logical and sound. Stop sayings it propoganda it is simple fact. I am not fear mongering I am stating I will continue to analyze him till he dies or I die. Fear mongering would be "if hes red omg hes going to rape us all if we dont kill him now" I instead promise to do analysis.
It is fear mongering, because you say that as long as we do not lynch Palmar we are going to be in a mess.
It is fear mongering because you stress that one of you HAS to be lynched today. That's not true, neither of you HAS to be lynched, ever. You're probably both going to be lynched at some point, but in light of what happened with Zeks and prpl they're actually better lynches than both of you.
If this is what you constitute to be fear mongering, why are you accusing me of it? When have I pandered to the fear of the town?
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You can continue trying to manipulate my posts but you will have a far harder time with me here to defend myself. But I am guessing the hope was I wouldn't come back in time.
This is just a threat. This isn't logic, nor is it an argument in your favor. You're just threatening me that I will have a hard time going against you when you are here.
I am not threatened by anyone in this game.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for my clear scumreads? My scumreads are very clear. I have analyzed them. Gut shots are not solid reads, they are gut shots. A read is doing analysis on people like I have on annul and Palmar.
Sure, but you haven't been very transparent about who you think is scum.
Your case on Palmar is garbage and your case on annul is tepid at best.
You can't seriously believe that we will swallow you saying that you only have two solid scumreads right now. There are 16 scum, yet you pick the mayor because he had hard decisions to make and some troll who was loud and obnoxious.
Palmar may not have played most optimally in this game but that doesn't make him scum, that just makes him human.
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On November 30 2011 10:12 wherebugsgo wrote:I started the case on BC. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=163#3257Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I wonder, how is it that the moment I say I leave the thread that 3 people jump out and instantly try to rape my nuts. They spread fear. I have read the thread and now will have to choose posts one by one to respond to but let me ask you one thing.
Who here is fear mongering players? WBG and Palmar fear monger everyone. They can speculate what they would do as mafia in my position and say that that is what I am doing however none of them actually know what I would or wouldn't do. However think of this game as just this game, and the actions done within it. I'm not fear mongering shit. Want to show how I am? Go for it. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My posts actually give you a read on myself. You will either say I am scum or Town. Let me ask you these questions however. Who has called people out for attempting to manipulate people. Who tried to create plans to unite the town/give discussions that force people to give up information on their alignment. Who has attempted to stop people from making terrible choices.
Now go back and look through the people who have flip flopped positions, tried to mislead people, inspired fear into the town, out and out lie in general and get away with it. If you honestly believe that I fit the second bill, kill me for I will have no hope of convincing you of anything. BC you obviously do none of these things as scum. However, if you are town, why have your only decent pushes for scum been annul, Palmar and supersoft? My only decent pushes are on my strongest reads. I PUSH those who I believe are the most scum to me. If that means I am only 100% sure of my analysis and reads on two players I do so. If I do not fully believe someone is red I will not typically do much about it. Why would I spam a thread with "so and so seems scummy" when I can post behavioural analysis on some players I feel strongly about and get them lynched? This is not a game about who can spam "x is red" you catch reds and to do that requires analysis, you can only do so much at once.There are 16 scum in this game. You avoided mentioning who your day 1 lynch would've been for the longest time. Your case on Palmar was terrible. So was your case on supersoft, actually. Supersoft is acting somewhat strangely this game, but he isn't as sure scum as you paint him to be. Why is it that whenever someone asks you for scumreads it's never very clear who you suspect? I do what I choose to do. If someone asks who my reads are and choose to ignore my analysis they are not worth responding too. If I am pushing a target you should realize where my reads are. Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now, for the next person who says "didn't BC say he wouldn't double lynch?" You will be lynched. I said I would never have double lynched day 2, it is clearly anti town and a waste of the ability. We do not lynch for information, we do not lynch off shoddy clues. We do not lynch someone when the mayor says " i wont lynch null reads or off pure clues" then proceeds to push a target that meet those conditions. Sure, I agree with you here. In fact, I agreed with you yesterday! But why would you ignore the evidence that existed for why Palmar chose the double lynch? The majority of town, as stupid as they might be, wanted a double lynch today. Palmar was convinced by the arguments that were given to him. Do I agree with whether or not we should have double lynch today? Obviously not, I think we should have a double lynch on day 3 and afterward. However, Palmar activating double lynch for day 2 does not make him scum. It just means that he is willing to listen to the people who decided to vote him into office yesterday.He changed his opinion, sure, but that's not a scumtell either. I explained this in a previous post already so i will not rehash it here.Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Today palmar or myself has to die. I will not stop pushing him until he dies, he will not stop trying to discredit/kill me until I die. What's with this bullshit false dichotomy? You say you are posting with logic but you blatantly use a black and white logical fallacy right here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThis isn't logic. THIS is propaganda, and THIS is fear mongering. You are doing it yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaI will start answering individual posts as I go but if I die at least I die knowing all of the mafia vets showed their faces to get me offed.
Right.
again already dealt with this
[/QUOTE]
Responses are in green.
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On November 30 2011 10:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:34 vaderseven wrote:On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay. READ my last like 10 posts or so and find out there is a huge reason to vote zeks beyond clues. He soft claimed miller and asked if people investigated him then claims vigi later on. I really wouldnt have a problem with you BC if you didnt like tunnel in on palmer for 90% of this game. Most of you posts are about how he is scum and I just buy 0% of what you are saying. I didn't like Palmer's campaign at first but I hated every campaign... There is just something not right about you and no matter where I look I cant get the info I need to pinpoint it beacuse all you do is say the town is dumb and palmer is dumb. Wait. Thats what I have a problem with. He claimed a role, not an alignment. He could say he is a town vig but no one would ever believe that, instead he just claimed his role. A mafia in most cases would claim the alignment to garner sympathy. Instead he just says you lynch a vig. He can't ever confirm his alignment to you until dts clear sanity so he chose his role. It is more likely vigi's are town and not red. He did not claim miller -_- he claimed his role in black, or did I missread his entire post?
He totally soft claimed miller.
In order to say "what if I am a miller" he has to be a vanilla town.
He later claimed vig.
Why the fuck would he warn us of him being a miller if he's going to claim vig later?
On November 29 2011 23:31 zeks wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On November 29 2011 23:05 sandroba wrote:
I agree lynching zeks and risen. Zeks may not be scum, but I'm willing to take a chance. Risen activity spiked like hell now that the heat is on and he came in and posted several coherent posts. Pretty sure he is mafia, despite w/e scum slip. Don't have a good reason for risk to be mafia at this point. He fos'ed that steven dude who I think is scummy as shit. What makes you say Zeks may not be scum? Last night you were pretty suspicious of him? You and I both know that while not applicable as scumtell, it's pretty common for mafia to disappear over the night, which is exactly what you did. I'm listening though, if you have any solid reasoning to back it up. The only thing making me hesitate on Risen is the fact Ace was considering opposing the wagon on him. Ace can't have been wrong on everything. did you read my post on how prplhz's play is far removed from what I've come to know as his normal town play? What kind of logic is lynching me and I may not be scum? Can't believe I'm going down on 95% clues...sigh I'm disappointed to say the least. I'm just going to say right now that this is a terrible mistake town is making and a big waste of a lynch. Judging from the tone of some of your posts I might've been DT checked last night and returned scum/guilty (I won't say by who)... if so please consider your sanity / or the possibility I'm Miller! I guess that person probably thinks whatever I am it doesn't really matter - at the very least he can verify his sanity or something. Honestly other than that I know I couldn't have been pegged on clues alone - town knows better than that. As for defending myself I don't know what I can say more; the clues and my profile are there - you guys can link them together however you want. As many vets have said clues can't be completely trusted as a basis for a lynch as mods tend to make them vague...but if this is how its going to be then so be it. I've been as sincere as possible when posting and other people have acted way scummier than me (despite my activity) and also have clues pegged on them yet they're getting away spot free.
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Why does BC have so many votes? Supersoft should be dying tonight 
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I really dont want to vote for anyone besides zeks right now.
I was getting ready to make a case on Heir who was the scummiest as far as my notes are concerned but really re-reading him made me less sure
%^&&*
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On November 30 2011 10:59 bumatlarge wrote:Why does BC have so many votes? Supersoft should be dying tonight
why have you done jack-all for almost an entire day?
You missed the most critical time of day and have had almost no input on town affairs. You scum?
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On November 30 2011 10:50 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:12 wherebugsgo wrote:I started the case on BC. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690¤tpage=163#3257On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I wonder, how is it that the moment I say I leave the thread that 3 people jump out and instantly try to rape my nuts. They spread fear. I have read the thread and now will have to choose posts one by one to respond to but let me ask you one thing.
Who here is fear mongering players? WBG and Palmar fear monger everyone. They can speculate what they would do as mafia in my position and say that that is what I am doing however none of them actually know what I would or wouldn't do. However think of this game as just this game, and the actions done within it. I'm not fear mongering shit. Want to show how I am? Go for it. On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My posts actually give you a read on myself. You will either say I am scum or Town. Let me ask you these questions however. Who has called people out for attempting to manipulate people. Who tried to create plans to unite the town/give discussions that force people to give up information on their alignment. Who has attempted to stop people from making terrible choices.
Now go back and look through the people who have flip flopped positions, tried to mislead people, inspired fear into the town, out and out lie in general and get away with it. If you honestly believe that I fit the second bill, kill me for I will have no hope of convincing you of anything. BC you obviously do none of these things as scum. However, if you are town, why have your only decent pushes for scum been annul, Palmar and supersoft? There are 16 scum in this game. You avoided mentioning who your day 1 lynch would've been for the longest time. Your case on Palmar was terrible. So was your case on supersoft, actually. Supersoft is acting somewhat strangely this game, but he isn't as sure scum as you paint him to be. Why is it that whenever someone asks you for scumreads it's never very clear who you suspect? On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now, for the next person who says "didn't BC say he wouldn't double lynch?" You will be lynched. I said I would never have double lynched day 2, it is clearly anti town and a waste of the ability. We do not lynch for information, we do not lynch off shoddy clues. We do not lynch someone when the mayor says " i wont lynch null reads or off pure clues" then proceeds to push a target that meet those conditions. Sure, I agree with you here. In fact, I agreed with you yesterday! But why would you ignore the evidence that existed for why Palmar chose the double lynch? The majority of town, as stupid as they might be, wanted a double lynch today. Palmar was convinced by the arguments that were given to him. Do I agree with whether or not we should have double lynch today? Obviously not, I think we should have a double lynch on day 3 and afterward. However, Palmar activating double lynch for day 2 does not make him scum. It just means that he is willing to listen to the people who decided to vote him into office yesterday.He changed his opinion, sure, but that's not a scumtell either. On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Today palmar or myself has to die. I will not stop pushing him until he dies, he will not stop trying to discredit/kill me until I die. What's with this bullshit false dichotomy? You say you are posting with logic but you blatantly use a black and white logical fallacy right here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThis isn't logic. THIS is propaganda, and THIS is fear mongering. You are doing it yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaI will start answering individual posts as I go but if I die at least I die knowing all of the mafia vets showed their faces to get me offed. Right. About the double lynch. A smart town player who knows damn well that an action is scummy even if mayor does not give up his position. He started his campaign based on his experience and that he was good. A good player who knows a play is bad DOES NOT DO IT if he is town.
So you're calling syllo and sandro dumb for wanting a double lynch on day 2, despite syllo flipping town?
Look, I understand you didn't support a day 2 double lynch, but if you think Palmar is scum based on him changing his mind because people wanted double lynch (or his death) and convincing him with (in his eyes) decent arguments then you are stretching.
If you consider Palmar to be dumb because he chose day 2 double lynch so be it, but that doesn't make him scum. Syllo was one of the most vocal supporters of a day 2 double lynch and he fucking flipped town.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
A bad town needs to be helped by those who know what is good or bad. By cow towing to the "general public" shows that he is willing to do anything to appear town. A solid player does this via their analysis and bringing in reds. I also posted where he lied.
I agree that a bad town needs to be helped by those who know good from bad.
So then why the hell have you been so passive in trying to change town atmosphere? The town has been a mess ALL day, partly due to Ace. Yet, you didn't strongly oppose Ace despite Ace talking out of his ass for a good 4-5 hours. After Ace got modkilled you didn't oppose the shitty wagons that sprung up on Palmar, Risen, and zeks.
Sure, you half assed an opposition to the wagon on me, but it was as if you didn't actually care about town finding scum. Your case was weak on Palmar and it still is. It's rather weak on annul too, although I probably would've agreed with you on him if his behavior had stayed the same. His behavior has actually been improving and some of what annul has been saying has been making much more sense than it did day 1.
I am still not understanding how Palmar lied. Please reiterate if you actually believe that.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for black or white dichtonomy? I am stating fact. He is clearly red to me, I will not stop pushing him as a target. Why is that hard to believe?
Because you are not infallible.
You of all people should know that it's futile to try and connect the alignments of players before they flip. For all we know you could both be town. However, by making it a "me vs Palmar" issue you're throwing logic out the window and just making it a false black and white issue.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
He has already shown he will instantly attack anyone who attacks him. As such we will continue analyzing eachothers every move. This is logical and sound. Stop sayings it propoganda it is simple fact. I am not fear mongering I am stating I will continue to analyze him till he dies or I die. Fear mongering would be "if hes red omg hes going to rape us all if we dont kill him now" I instead promise to do analysis.
It is fear mongering, because you say that as long as we do not lynch Palmar we are going to be in a mess.
It is fear mongering because you stress that one of you HAS to be lynched today. That's not true, neither of you HAS to be lynched, ever. You're probably both going to be lynched at some point, but in light of what happened with Zeks and prpl they're actually better lynches than both of you.
If this is what you constitute to be fear mongering, why are you accusing me of it? When have I pandered to the fear of the town?
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You can continue trying to manipulate my posts but you will have a far harder time with me here to defend myself. But I am guessing the hope was I wouldn't come back in time.
This is just a threat. This isn't logic, nor is it an argument in your favor. You're just threatening me that I will have a hard time going against you when you are here.
I am not threatened by anyone in this game.
On November 30 2011 10:05 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for my clear scumreads? My scumreads are very clear. I have analyzed them. Gut shots are not solid reads, they are gut shots. A read is doing analysis on people like I have on annul and Palmar.
Sure, but you haven't been very transparent about who you think is scum.
Your case on Palmar is garbage and your case on annul is tepid at best.
You can't seriously believe that we will swallow you saying that you only have two solid scumreads right now. There are 16 scum, yet you pick the mayor because he had hard decisions to make and some troll who was loud and obnoxious.
Palmar may not have played most optimally in this game but that doesn't make him scum, that just makes him human.[/QUOTE]
I am not even trying to wagon you at this moment, my votes are clear where they are and they are not moving. If you say I am wagoning then i would be saying "vote wbg." I am instead pointing people at you. If palmar was so townish he would defend himself or prove himself town. Instead he lets others fight for him, this is mafia like. You can disagree all you want but anyone who is strongly town and there is strong opposition against him will attempt something. The only time this is not the case is if someone cannot defend the case against them via it being so noose tightening or it being so far stretched anyone with a brain would ignore it and a defense would not be needed aside a small line.
You can say the case on Palmar is garbage and I will say you are wrong. You say I am experienced, you know ace was. Do you think its just random retardedness that has two of the most experienced players in the game focus'd on one player? Do you think its actually townlike to push the first round of lynches off clues? Do you think its townlike to push for double lynch for day 2? No to either of those, then why are you ok with annul living, he has done both and continues to play anti town.
Why was I so passive? Because I now have to push my reads and attempt to stop town from offing itself. I am naturally an aggressive player, don't like it? Thats fine. I am what I am and this is how I play. Notice how even with being more aggressive I am still posting logically? Gasp its magical.
Syllo is indeed bad for recommending a bad play even for flipping town. His alignment doesn't suddenly make his choice good. Look at the situation we are currently in? Does this honestly scream smart choice by him or roba? No.
As for threatening you? You are the only one actually posting against me in a solid argument so kudos. Where are the others who decided to try and shank me while I was gone?
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On November 30 2011 11:00 vaderseven wrote:
I really dont want to vote for anyone besides zeks right now.
I was getting ready to make a case on Heir who was the scummiest as far as my notes are concerned but really re-reading him made me less sure
%^&&*
All I've read from heir was that he disagreed with palmar and WBG. Heaven forbid some townie should do that. Vote someone better like supersoft. Heir is a noob town, supersoft is straight up the scummiest person in the thread. I don't understand how this isn't clear.
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On November 30 2011 11:01 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:59 bumatlarge wrote:Why does BC have so many votes? Supersoft should be dying tonight why have you done jack-all for almost an entire day? You missed the most critical time of day and have had almost no input on town affairs. You scum?
Sorry I wasn't here for about 16 hours...? I sleep/work you know :/ I come back and there is 40 pages. you want me to make some impact all of a sudden? Well I did, and it's called, "here is scum, his name is supersoft." I can find you the analysis if you would like.
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finally finished these dreaded pages and im going to change my vote to Palmar from Risen. Im still iffy about the scumslip because i find it hard to believe that a townie would make a mistake like that. The last many pages was what changed my mind about Palmar. MAINLY THIS QUOTE:
On November 30 2011 02:22 Palmar wrote:Have you ever loved someone so much, you'd give an arm for?
Not the expression, no, literally give an arm for?
When they know they're your heart
And you know you were their armour
And you will destroy anyone who would try to harm them
But what happens when karma, turns right around and bites you?
And everything you stand for, turns on you to spite you?
What happens when you become the main source of their pain? I fucked up. I don't know where I went wrong, but I'm sure I will see it at some point. I am on a one way train to get-hanged-ville, and worst of all is I don't know what I did wrong. I have been doing extremely well as town lately in mafia, so I felt like I could trust myself to do this. Man, that backfired.I did provide the best reasoning I had, on a day that had very, very little discussion going on. Sure, you can argue that the correct move would've been to lynch an inactive or a lurker, but I am a firm believer in not changing things that are working. I was on a seven game streak of accusing mafia on day 1. Why would I not trust myself? Tebow may be the worst QB in the NFL, but they're not gonna bench him until he starts losing. The fear of me being mafia is eclipsing way too much in the thread. Maybe the best way to settle this is for me to die. I mean, it's not obvious to any of you until I flip, but what Ace did infuriated me so much. It is impossible to set trap for townies, because they can't spring it by definition, so my assumption was that he actually had some kind of a plan to get a better read on my alignment. Counting on Ace to be a reliable ally this game I decided to put a lot of effort into giving answers to him, only to find out the entire thing was just a ploy with no clear goal in mind, perhaps only to reinforce his already incorrect belief. Half the things he used as arguments weren't even correct, or at least pulled out of context. I guess you guys can imagine how much this frustrated me. In a game I'm already pouring my heart and soul in with so much activity, only to be stifled by having to spend the considerable time I'm putting into this game defending myself. I feel like shit. I felt like I could do it, lead the town and help as much as I possibly could, but I don't have the radiant shine of town that some other players possess when they're town. This is my mistake, I should have known it. I acted as de-facto leader of town in Real Time Mafia, and yet, with 5/6 mafia down by day 3, and me leading at least 2 of those lynches, I still got heavily accused. I should have learned. Maybe youngminii's remark that I should never be trusted should have been my first clue that this was not a good idea.For anyone who wants perspective on why this is hard for me, you should probably know how I feel about playing mafia in general. I'll quote myself from a few months ago. Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 21:46 Palmar wrote:Warning: Rant + Show Spoiler +So, reading up on Zorkmid's thing made me remember how fucking madI get at people who cry about bad towns or themselves being tunneled are. Like, really, there is no one responsible but you. If the town is not agreeing with your logic, even if you're right, it's not because they are bad, it's because you are not doing a good enough job convincing them.
If you are being tunneled, it's not because whoever is tunneling is bad, it's because you haven't clearly enough established your innocence. I don't care how bad the reasons for tunneling you are, if you get lynched, you're the problem, not the people who got you lynched. If someone got you lynched with terrible reasoning or on policy, good job them! Sure they may be town too, and thus be detrimental, but if you are town, you must be able to deflect that shit. Let that sink in for a moment. Someone came up with TERRIBLE reasons, and yet he still managed to get you lynched. How bad does that make you?
Getting lynched in a mafia game is always your own fault, there is nothing else that can make you get lynched than you failing. Even when the odds are stacked against you (you're red, and a dt has a check on you), the responsibility is yours to make sure they hang some other bastard.
If you think there exists something called "bad town" you're part of the problem. Part of your responsibility is to find out what kind of logic appeals to the town you're trying to convince. You'd not use the same methods to explain something to a bunch of kids, and to a board of executives. It's your responsibility to tailor-make the arguments to fit the people you're trying to convince.
If person a) says "LOL, YOU MAFIA" and you say "No, here's a detailed analysis of why you must be scum", yet the town lynches you anyway, it's YOUR fault. You did not recognize what arguments would work with the town you're playing with.
It's never someone else's fault.
There is no such thing as bad towns.
The only answer to the question "Why did we lose?" is "Because I am terrible and must improve".
I'm sorry town. Maybe I was the problem. Good luck And when I'm gone, just carry on, don't mourn
Rejoice every time you hear the sound of my voice
Just know that I'm looking down on you smiling
And I didn't feel a thing, So baby don't feel my pain
Just smile back
what the fuck? LOL I actually thought it was believable but then, he started conjuring up the thread after this martyr post..
This is emotional bullshit in the form of a suicide note.
After this, Palmar started posted again because this achieved its goal of affecting other people
![[image loading]](http://demotivators.despair.com/blamedemotivator.jpg)
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On November 30 2011 10:53 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 10:47 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:34 vaderseven wrote:On November 30 2011 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On November 30 2011 10:23 vaderseven wrote:
BloodyC0bbler, what do you think of Zeks and prplhz? Zeks is a bad lynch as the only reasoning to kill him is on clues. Prprlhz is also a bad lynch as he was proposed basically while I was gone at work in the last 9 hours. With this much vote swapping and attempt to swap votes, mafia are playing insanely hard to manipulate the vote. Zeks is a bad choice, as is prphlz. My votes will stay where they are. Even if me swapping my vote would save myself I will not do it. That is where my strongest reads are, that is where my votes will stay. READ my last like 10 posts or so and find out there is a huge reason to vote zeks beyond clues. He soft claimed miller and asked if people investigated him then claims vigi later on. I really wouldnt have a problem with you BC if you didnt like tunnel in on palmer for 90% of this game. Most of you posts are about how he is scum and I just buy 0% of what you are saying. I didn't like Palmer's campaign at first but I hated every campaign... There is just something not right about you and no matter where I look I cant get the info I need to pinpoint it beacuse all you do is say the town is dumb and palmer is dumb. Wait. Thats what I have a problem with. He claimed a role, not an alignment. He could say he is a town vig but no one would ever believe that, instead he just claimed his role. A mafia in most cases would claim the alignment to garner sympathy. Instead he just says you lynch a vig. He can't ever confirm his alignment to you until dts clear sanity so he chose his role. It is more likely vigi's are town and not red. He did not claim miller -_- he claimed his role in black, or did I missread his entire post? He totally soft claimed miller. In order to say "what if I am a miller" he has to be a vanilla town. He later claimed vig. Why the fuck would he warn us of him being a miller if he's going to claim vig later? Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:31 zeks wrote:On November 29 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:On November 29 2011 23:05 sandroba wrote:
I agree lynching zeks and risen. Zeks may not be scum, but I'm willing to take a chance. Risen activity spiked like hell now that the heat is on and he came in and posted several coherent posts. Pretty sure he is mafia, despite w/e scum slip. Don't have a good reason for risk to be mafia at this point. He fos'ed that steven dude who I think is scummy as shit. What makes you say Zeks may not be scum? Last night you were pretty suspicious of him? You and I both know that while not applicable as scumtell, it's pretty common for mafia to disappear over the night, which is exactly what you did. I'm listening though, if you have any solid reasoning to back it up. The only thing making me hesitate on Risen is the fact Ace was considering opposing the wagon on him. Ace can't have been wrong on everything. did you read my post on how prplhz's play is far removed from what I've come to know as his normal town play? What kind of logic is lynching me and I may not be scum? Can't believe I'm going down on 95% clues...sigh I'm disappointed to say the least. I'm just going to say right now that this is a terrible mistake town is making and a big waste of a lynch. Judging from the tone of some of your posts I might've been DT checked last night and returned scum/guilty (I won't say by who)... if so please consider your sanity / or the possibility I'm Miller! I guess that person probably thinks whatever I am it doesn't really matter - at the very least he can verify his sanity or something. Honestly other than that I know I couldn't have been pegged on clues alone - town knows better than that. As for defending myself I don't know what I can say more; the clues and my profile are there - you guys can link them together however you want. As many vets have said clues can't be completely trusted as a basis for a lynch as mods tend to make them vague...but if this is how its going to be then so be it. I've been as sincere as possible when posting and other people have acted way scummier than me (despite my activity) and also have clues pegged on them yet they're getting away spot free.
My bad I misread that section of his post. However if you were sure you were getting pushed on a dt check would you first out your role or try and convince a dt to back down? This point is completely moot as a red or town player could make this argument. His stance on his defense is pretty clear. Clues are being linked to him and its been pointed out its unlikely that such an obvious clue is actually a clue to him. What more do you want from a defense against "i think x means you are red die" other than say "you are wrong" or the like?
There is no solid analysis on him to have him offed.
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EPT
